STLtoday.com

I was watching the Cards V. Brewers match in 2011 and was thinking how much fun baseball was back then. I don't know if it's me getting older, but how the hell do we get back to when Cardinal baseball was enjoyable? It's the trade deadline soon, I used to be glued to Twitter (x), now we can't pay people to take our (bleep). Sucks.

Cardsfan1586 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 13:42 pm I was watching the Cards V. Brewers match in 2011 and was thinking how much fun baseball was back then. I don't know if it's me getting older, but how the hell do we get back to when Cardinal baseball was enjoyable? It's the trade deadline soon, I used to be glued to Twitter (x), now we can't pay people to take our [redacted]. Sucks.

The industry has changed dramatically since 2011

All small market teams will have occasional success, by unlikely a consistent contender..

There is no going back…

Cardsfan1586 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 13:42 pm I was watching the Cards V. Brewers match in 2011 and was thinking how much fun baseball was back then. I don't know if it's me getting older, but how the hell do we get back to when Cardinal baseball was enjoyable? It's the trade deadline soon, I used to be glued to Twitter (x), now we can't pay people to take our [redacted]. Sucks.

Revenue sharing, salary cap, salary floor, no deferred $$$. Maybe after next season, we will get a new CBA.

By improving the roster. It could (should) be a busy off season. It may take a couple of years.

What i would like to see Bloom do:

1. Open up for business. Most on the current roster should be available in the right deal.

2. Sign at least one good SP in free agency.

3. Find a RH power bat of the OF.

4. Focus on athleticism & speed.

5. Continue to find pitching (draft, trade, free agency).

This is a lot. And it will take time. But it boils down to DeWitt being willing to spend a little.

45s wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 14:04 pm

Cardsfan1586 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 13:42 pm I was watching the Cards V. Brewers match in 2011 and was thinking how much fun baseball was back then. I don't know if it's me getting older, but how the hell do we get back to when Cardinal baseball was enjoyable? It's the trade deadline soon, I used to be glued to Twitter (x), now we can't pay people to take our [redacted]. Sucks.

The industry has changed dramatically since 2011

All small market teams will have occasional success, by unlikely a consistent contender..

There is no going back…

Baseball needs an NFL style revenue sharing system and salary cap. Level out the playing field a bit and the small markets could compete.

If the powers that be don't take that route, major league baseball is headed the way of the dinosaurs.

They should also get rid of some wild card teams, and stop snuggling up to gambling. But those topics are for another tread.

45s wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 14:04 pm

Cardsfan1586 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 13:42 pm I was watching the Cards V. Brewers match in 2011 and was thinking how much fun baseball was back then. I don't know if it's me getting older, but how the hell do we get back to when Cardinal baseball was enjoyable? It's the trade deadline soon, I used to be glued to Twitter (x), now we can't pay people to take our [redacted]. Sucks.

The industry has changed dramatically since 2011

All small market teams will have occasional success, by unlikely a consistent contender..

There is no going back…

There is, but that’s a battle that will first require the large market owners to not be so greedy and then after that require all the owners and the MLBPA to not be so greedy and think strictly for the good of the sport.


An easy road that will be made nearly impossible by greed and ego and likely to cost at least a full season.

Banner29 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 14:18 pm

45s wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 14:04 pm

Cardsfan1586 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 13:42 pm I was watching the Cards V. Brewers match in 2011 and was thinking how much fun baseball was back then. I don't know if it's me getting older, but how the hell do we get back to when Cardinal baseball was enjoyable? It's the trade deadline soon, I used to be glued to Twitter (x), now we can't pay people to take our [redacted]. Sucks.

The industry has changed dramatically since 2011

All small market teams will have occasional success, by unlikely a consistent contender..

There is no going back…

There is, but that’s a battle that will first require the large market owners to not be so greedy and then after that require all the owners and the MLBPA to not be so greedy and think strictly for the good of the sport.


An easy road that will be made nearly impossible by greed and ego and likely to cost at least a full season.

And well worth that price!

Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 14:11 pm

45s wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 14:04 pm

Cardsfan1586 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 13:42 pm I was watching the Cards V. Brewers match in 2011 and was thinking how much fun baseball was back then. I don't know if it's me getting older, but how the hell do we get back to when Cardinal baseball was enjoyable? It's the trade deadline soon, I used to be glued to Twitter (x), now we can't pay people to take our [redacted]. Sucks.

The industry has changed dramatically since 2011

All small market teams will have occasional success, by unlikely a consistent contender..

There is no going back…

Baseball needs an NFL style revenue sharing system and salary cap. Level out the playing field a bit and the small markets could compete.

If the powers that be don't take that route, major league baseball is headed the way of the dinosaurs.

They should also get rid of some wild card teams, and stop snuggling up to gambling. But those topics are for another tread.

No disagreement on any of your points……..but until then

Committing to a player development, and staffing your minor leagues with talent who are on the cutting edge of what is going on with player development is a start.

Actually committing to developing players at the major league level would help as well.

Then use your relative strength as a mid market team to get that payroll back to around the top 10 and pay for players in areas that you weren't able to develop.

45s wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 14:04 pm

Cardsfan1586 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 13:42 pm I was watching the Cards V. Brewers match in 2011 and was thinking how much fun baseball was back then. I don't know if it's me getting older, but how the hell do we get back to when Cardinal baseball was enjoyable? It's the trade deadline soon, I used to be glued to Twitter (x), now we can't pay people to take our [redacted]. Sucks.

The industry has changed dramatically since 2011

All small market teams will have occasional success, by unlikely a consistent contender..

There is no going back…

The Cardinals are a small-market team by choice.

45s wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 14:04 pm

Cardsfan1586 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 13:42 pm I was watching the Cards V. Brewers match in 2011 and was thinking how much fun baseball was back then. I don't know if it's me getting older, but how the hell do we get back to when Cardinal baseball was enjoyable? It's the trade deadline soon, I used to be glued to Twitter (x), now we can't pay people to take our [redacted]. Sucks.

The industry has changed dramatically since 2011

All small market teams will have occasional success, by unlikely a consistent contender..

There is no going back…

The Cardinals are not a small market team. They have one of the biggest fanbases in baseball and were top 3 in attendance from the mid 1990's to the late 2010's. They have the second most WS titles and most in the NL in their history. Sure, St. Louis is not the biggest city with an MLB team but Green Bay is one of the smallest towns with one of the most popular NFL teams nobody would dare say Green Bay is a small market NFL team.

In 2025 the Cards are listed as 11th most valuable franchise at 2.55 billion. They still operate on an income and not a loss.

Supply and demand, supply and demand.

They are not trending well but they absolutely can be top dog or compete with the top dogs if they spend some money.

Owners are either experimenting with not spending to see what their income can still be, they are trying to increase profit margins or they are preparing to sell the team by not being competitive right now. My guess is on the first option. DeWitt's have done nothing but print money while spending a ton. Knowing they do have one of the largest fanbases in baseball I think they are seeing if they could spend a lot less and still make a ton (more?) of money. It will take years to get back to being competitive and getting the fans trust back. They screwed the pooch the past few seasons but the fans are still there.

Look at how there were magically more Cubs and Red Sox fans when they won a World Series. Outside of their hometown it was hard to find fans of those teams and the common "fan" would not claim fandom until they were actually good.

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 14:28 pm Committing to a player development, and staffing your minor leagues with talent who are on the cutting edge of what is going on with player development is a start.

Actually committing to developing players at the major league level would help as well.

Then use your relative strength as a mid market team to get that payroll back to around the top 10 and pay for players in areas that you weren't able to develop.

This. We are an upper mid market, not a small market. We win with good manamagement, good drafting and trading, then wisely spending at or near the top 10 levels. Do that and sign some popular big names that produce, and the fans will return >3M per year to support the spend.

desertrat23 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 14:30 pm

45s wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 14:04 pm

Cardsfan1586 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 13:42 pm I was watching the Cards V. Brewers match in 2011 and was thinking how much fun baseball was back then. I don't know if it's me getting older, but how the hell do we get back to when Cardinal baseball was enjoyable? It's the trade deadline soon, I used to be glued to Twitter (x), now we can't pay people to take our [redacted]. Sucks.

The industry has changed dramatically since 2011

All small market teams will have occasional success, by unlikely a consistent contender..

There is no going back…

The Cardinals are a small-market team by choice.

Perhaps you are conflating budget decisions by ownership, with various aspects of the region.

Ownership could spend lavishly, but Stl is still a small town..not an entertainment or media center…no glitz options the coasts offer that attract young stars …..

Even if the money was equal…they can’t compete with the dodgers, Yankees etc.

Just the way it is…

We start never allowing Mikolas to start another game. We shouldn’t play the contract, we should eat the contract.

45s wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 14:41 pm

desertrat23 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 14:30 pm

45s wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 14:04 pm

Cardsfan1586 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 13:42 pm I was watching the Cards V. Brewers match in 2011 and was thinking how much fun baseball was back then. I don't know if it's me getting older, but how the hell do we get back to when Cardinal baseball was enjoyable? It's the trade deadline soon, I used to be glued to Twitter (x), now we can't pay people to take our [redacted]. Sucks.

The industry has changed dramatically since 2011

All small market teams will have occasional success, by unlikely a consistent contender..

There is no going back…

The Cardinals are a small-market team by choice.

Perhaps you are conflating budget decisions by ownership, with various aspects of the region.

Ownership could spend lavishly, but Stl is still a small town..not an entertainment or media center…no glitz options the coasts offer that attract young stars …..

Even if the money was equal…they can’t compete with the dodgers, Yankees etc.

Just the way it is…

Not conflating, but I'll give you that I may have been a bit unclear. They're "small market" by choice in terms of the economics of baseball when you consider the regional draw of the team from western Illinois, Arkansas, Iowa, Tennessee, etc. That's a competitive advantage that I hope isn't slipping away due to the overall lousiness of the organization these days.

What are the primary sources of variable revenue for baseball teams? (Excluding MLB-wide national deals) Tickets sold and local TV revenue. The Cardinals have long outpunched their weight thanks to the fanbase that they've chosen to dump on, patronize and insult for the past several years. That was a controllable source of revenue that they allowed to decay. Local TV? They took a hit to be sure -- but there are teams that are a lot worse off. I again look at the Padres, who have NO local TV deal. They got $17 million in TV money last year. (!) Now they sell it on their own, and while they estimate to get about $30 million this year (which is $24 million less than the Cardinals expect), their payroll is $74 million higher this year. The Diamondbacks are in a similar boat. Their payroll is $54 million higher than the Cardinals this year, and they also have no local TV deal. They're only averaging about 1,000 more per game in attendance than the Cardinals, so they're not crushing it at the turnstiles.

So the Padres are seeing $24 million less in TV dollars and spending $74 million more? Are their owners just eating that delta? The Diamondbacks? Doubt it. Are the Cardinals just pocketing their piece of the delta? Seems more likely, doesn't it? This is a CHOICE, and it's a choice they made -- resulting in a self-inflicted wound (attendance).

And to your point about entertainment and stars in big markets...the biggest star in the biggest sport in America plays in Missouri, and he's on every other commercial on television. Somehow it works out.

The Dodgers make more in local TV money than the Cardinals make from all sources. Without a salary floor and ceiling and revenue sharing the mid and small market teams will never compete with any constancy. Only 5 other teams have a population smaller than the STL area. Visitors from the surrounding states can not make up that difference.
Bottom line is the Cards can't spend with the big boys. All of the small and mid market teams will build and compete for a few years, then lose their stars to the big market teams in FA. Making the playoffs does not mean you are actually competing for the WS.