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Cardinals lack 'team' speed .. must change
Posted: 23 Jul 2025 07:27 am
by ramfandan
Was looking over some MLB team stats and a few things jumped out when comparing the Cardinals to our current division rivals Cubs & Brewers.
The first that jumped out was the hits/ stolen bases
Team Hits Stolen Bases
Cubs 892 118
Cards 876 57
Brewers 841 11i6
While the Cardinals are comparable in base hits our two rivals not only have MORE stolen bases but OVER DOUBLE the amount .
Fans are misled when they watch games when VS II and Winn are mentioned as speed guys . Yes, but look at a few of the other starters .. Burly, Arenado, Contreras are slowpokes by MLB standards. So 1/3 of the lineup can't run but this impacts beyond stealing bases .
What about our balls that are hit in the corners and gaps during the season.
Have you noticed the Cardinals rarely get any TRIPLES ? You are correct if you have .
Team Triples
Cubs 20
Brewers 10
Cards 4
Yes the Cardinals are DEAD LAST in the MLB with just 4 triples. That is an atrocious team stat.
Yes, the Cubs generate more runs with their HR balls but the Brewers sure don't. They have less homeruns than the Cardinals and also fewer hits yet they score more runs. It shows their team speed is better ..and the coaching staff is more aggressive with their base running due to that . It's a combination of both factors .
Hoping to see changes moving forward.
Re: Cardinals lack 'team' speed .. must change
Posted: 23 Jul 2025 07:51 am
by sikeston bulldog2
ramfandan wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 07:27 am
Was looking over some MLB team stats and a few things jumped out when comparing the Cardinals to our current division rivals Cubs & Brewers.
The first that jumped out was the hits/ stolen bases
Team Hits Stolen Bases
Cubs 892 118
Cards 876 57
Brewers 841 11i6
While the Cardinals are comparable in base hits our two rivals not only have MORE stolen bases but OVER DOUBLE the amount .
Fans are misled when they watch games when VS II and Winn are mentioned as speed guys . Yes, but look at a few of the other starters .. Burly, Arenado, Contreras are slowpokes by MLB standards. So 1/3 of the lineup can't run but this impacts beyond stealing bases .
What about our balls that are hit in the corners and gaps during the season.
Have you noticed the Cardinals rarely get any TRIPLES ? You are correct if you have .
Team Triples
Cubs 20
Brewers 10
Cards 4
Yes the Cardinals are DEAD LAST in the MLB with just 4 triples. That is an atrocious team stat.
Yes, the Cubs generate more runs with their HR balls but the Brewers sure don't. They have less homeruns than the Cardinals and also fewer hits yet they score more runs. It shows their team speed is better ..and the coaching staff is more aggressive with their base running due to that . It's a combination of both factors .
Hoping to see changes moving forward.
I think that was a great read with fine supporting writing. Bravo. Yes. All those singles are now doubles by way of the steal. A Risp. Need just another hit to score. Huge difference.
Re: Cardinals lack 'team' speed .. must change
Posted: 23 Jul 2025 08:29 am
by BrockFloodMaris
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 07:51 am
ramfandan wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 07:27 am
Was looking over some MLB team stats and a few things jumped out when comparing the Cardinals to our current division rivals Cubs & Brewers.
The first that jumped out was the hits/ stolen bases
Team Hits Stolen Bases
Cubs 892 118
Cards 876 57
Brewers 841 11i6
While the Cardinals are comparable in base hits our two rivals not only have MORE stolen bases but OVER DOUBLE the amount .
Fans are misled when they watch games when VS II and Winn are mentioned as speed guys . Yes, but look at a few of the other starters .. Burly, Arenado, Contreras are slowpokes by MLB standards. So 1/3 of the lineup can't run but this impacts beyond stealing bases .
What about our balls that are hit in the corners and gaps during the season.
Have you noticed the Cardinals rarely get any TRIPLES ? You are correct if you have .
Team Triples
Cubs 20
Brewers 10
Cards 4
Yes the Cardinals are DEAD LAST in the MLB with just 4 triples. That is an atrocious team stat.
Yes, the Cubs generate more runs with their HR balls but the Brewers sure don't. They have less homeruns than the Cardinals and also fewer hits yet they score more runs. It shows their team speed is better ..and the coaching staff is more aggressive with their base running due to that . It's a combination of both factors .
Hoping to see changes moving forward.
I think that was a great read with fine supporting writing. Bravo. Yes. All those singles are now doubles by way of the steal. A Risp. Need just another hit to score. Huge difference.
I completely agree with the premise of improving team speed, for a variety of reasons:
1) Speed don't slump
2) A fast team is fun for the fans to watch
3) A fast team does not cost more money to build than a slow team
4) Chicks dig the long ball is an unsustainable way for a mid-market team to build a successful MLB roster
Re: Cardinals lack 'team' speed .. must change
Posted: 23 Jul 2025 08:35 am
by sikeston bulldog2
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 08:29 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 07:51 am
ramfandan wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 07:27 am
Was looking over some MLB team stats and a few things jumped out when comparing the Cardinals to our current division rivals Cubs & Brewers.
The first that jumped out was the hits/ stolen bases
Team Hits Stolen Bases
Cubs 892 118
Cards 876 57
Brewers 841 11i6
While the Cardinals are comparable in base hits our two rivals not only have MORE stolen bases but OVER DOUBLE the amount .
Fans are misled when they watch games when VS II and Winn are mentioned as speed guys . Yes, but look at a few of the other starters .. Burly, Arenado, Contreras are slowpokes by MLB standards. So 1/3 of the lineup can't run but this impacts beyond stealing bases .
What about our balls that are hit in the corners and gaps during the season.
Have you noticed the Cardinals rarely get any TRIPLES ? You are correct if you have .
Team Triples
Cubs 20
Brewers 10
Cards 4
Yes the Cardinals are DEAD LAST in the MLB with just 4 triples. That is an atrocious team stat.
Yes, the Cubs generate more runs with their HR balls but the Brewers sure don't. They have less homeruns than the Cardinals and also fewer hits yet they score more runs. It shows their team speed is better ..and the coaching staff is more aggressive with their base running due to that . It's a combination of both factors .
Hoping to see changes moving forward.
I think that was a great read with fine supporting writing. Bravo. Yes. All those singles are now doubles by way of the steal. A Risp. Need just another hit to score. Huge difference.
I completely agree with the premise of improving team speed, for a variety of reasons:
1) Speed don't slump
2) A fast team is fun for the fans to watch
3) A fast team does not cost more money to build than a slow team
4) Chicks dig the long ball is an unsustainable way for a mid-market team to build a successful MLB roster
Yeah well we dudes have always done the stupidist concerning - the Chick.
Re: Cardinals lack 'team' speed .. must change
Posted: 23 Jul 2025 08:41 am
by illiniriles
Cubs took a 2-0 lead in the 2nd inning yesterday. 2 stolen bases in the inning. Cubs manager not afraid to make things happen. Never has been. Stolen bases, hit and run, bunt, etc.. Especially when we're over matched, the running game can be a game changer. Marmol doesn't seem to have that in his toolbox. But, hey, he's our manager.
Re: Cardinals lack 'team' speed .. must change
Posted: 23 Jul 2025 08:43 am
by CorneliusWolfe
The game evolves but sometimes not for the better so a forward thinking team might look back in time to previous trends and strategies to effectively counter current common practices.
A dose of Whitey-ball might be the perfect remedy. Working for our rivals.
Re: Cardinals lack 'team' speed .. must change
Posted: 23 Jul 2025 08:45 am
by scoutyjones2
illiniriles wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 08:41 am
Cubs took a 2-0 lead in the 2nd inning yesterday. 2 stolen bases in the inning. Cubs manager not afraid to make things happen. Never has been. Stolen bases, hit and run, bunt, etc.. Especially when we're over matched, the running game can be a game changer. Marmol doesn't seem to have that in his toolbox. But, hey, he's our manager.
Who can steal bases on the Cards genius? Only Argo...does he get on base enough
Re: Cardinals lack 'team' speed .. must change
Posted: 23 Jul 2025 08:46 am
by sikeston bulldog2
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 08:43 am
The game evolves but sometimes not for the better so a forward thinking team might look back in time to previous trends and strategies to effectively counter current common practices.
A dose of Whitey-ball might be the perfect remedy. Working for our rivals.
Correct. What goes around comes around.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Re: Cardinals lack 'team' speed .. must change
Posted: 23 Jul 2025 08:48 am
by sikeston bulldog2
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 08:45 am
illiniriles wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 08:41 am
Cubs took a 2-0 lead in the 2nd inning yesterday. 2 stolen bases in the inning. Cubs manager not afraid to make things happen. Never has been. Stolen bases, hit and run, bunt, etc.. Especially when we're over matched, the running game can be a game changer. Marmol doesn't seem to have that in his toolbox. But, hey, he's our manager.
Who can steal bases on the Cards genius? Only Argo...does he get on base enough
This goes back to the draft when you either - draft exclusively by position, or if you draft the best atheletic player available.
Re: Cardinals lack 'team' speed .. must change
Posted: 23 Jul 2025 08:50 am
by illiniriles
I'm not a genius, Scouty. You are. The announcers always talk about VS2 and Winn being speed merchants. But they are not all that great at stealing bases. Study and learn the art of base stealing. That's what I think they should do. But then again, YOU'RE the genius.
Re: Cardinals lack 'team' speed .. must change
Posted: 23 Jul 2025 08:51 am
by scoutyjones2
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 08:48 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 08:45 am
illiniriles wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 08:41 am
Cubs took a 2-0 lead in the 2nd inning yesterday. 2 stolen bases in the inning. Cubs manager not afraid to make things happen. Never has been. Stolen bases, hit and run, bunt, etc.. Especially when we're over matched, the running game can be a game changer. Marmol doesn't seem to have that in his toolbox. But, hey, he's our manager.
Who can steal bases on the Cards genius? Only Argo...does he get on base enough
This goes back to the draft when you either - draft exclusively by position, or if you draft the best atheletic player available.
That doesn't guarantee base stealing or speed.
Winns a disappointment with his poor base stealing. He's an example of athleticism, even speed, doesn' make you successful
Re: Cardinals lack 'team' speed .. must change
Posted: 23 Jul 2025 08:52 am
by WeeVikes
ramfandan wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 07:27 am
Was looking over some MLB team stats and a few things jumped out when comparing the Cardinals to our current division rivals Cubs & Brewers.
The first that jumped out was the hits/ stolen bases
Team Hits Stolen Bases
Cubs 892 118
Cards 876 57
Brewers 841 11i6
While the Cardinals are comparable in base hits our two rivals not only have MORE stolen bases but OVER DOUBLE the amount .
Fans are misled when they watch games when VS II and Winn are mentioned as speed guys . Yes, but look at a few of the other starters .. Burly, Arenado, Contreras are slowpokes by MLB standards. So 1/3 of the lineup can't run but this impacts beyond stealing bases .
What about our balls that are hit in the corners and gaps during the season.
Have you noticed the Cardinals rarely get any TRIPLES ? You are correct if you have .
Team Triples
Cubs 20
Brewers 10
Cards 4
Yes the Cardinals are DEAD LAST in the MLB with just 4 triples. That is an atrocious team stat.
Yes, the Cubs generate more runs with their HR balls but the Brewers sure don't. They have less homeruns than the Cardinals and also fewer hits yet they score more runs. It shows their team speed is better ..and the coaching staff is more aggressive with their base running due to that . It's a combination of both factors .
Hoping to see changes moving forward.
Even if it doesn’t show up as as stolen bases, team speed also makes it possible to turn bang-bang plays from outs to something better, taking extra bases on hits, and can make a huge difference on defense. Runs prevented are just as important as runs scored.
In my mind athleticism matters, and speed is part of that.
Re: Cardinals lack 'team' speed .. must change
Posted: 23 Jul 2025 08:53 am
by hmoss859
Bloom drafting Mitchell is a great sign
Tired of these dumpy unathletic slow dudes on roster
Re: Cardinals lack 'team' speed .. must change
Posted: 23 Jul 2025 08:55 am
by scoutyjones2
illiniriles wrote: ↑23 Jul 2025 08:50 am
I'm not a genius, Scouty. You are. The announcers always talk about VS2 and Winn being speed merchants. But they are not all that great at stealing bases. Study and learn the art of base stealing. That's what I think they should do. But then again, YOU'RE the genius.
I'm not genius either, and it further shows your idiocy to believe that...
Argo is a good base stealer.. how you say he isn't, further proves you're a moran
That's it. Winn isn't
LoL. The 'art" of base stealing. They made bases bigger, and limit throw overs. And Winn still struggles
It's laughable. MLB basically increased the ease of stealing bases and the only good base stealer they have is Argo.
Winn should be embarrassed.
Re: Cardinals lack 'team' speed .. must change
Posted: 23 Jul 2025 08:57 am
by Lightning Rod
Scott has good speed but K's too often and hits too many fly balls, thus his .230 BA, and Winn is not particularly fast. Lack of speed can play, but not without power, and we lack both. Our best hitters are left handed and left handed pitching neutralizes our offense. One right handed outfielder who can't hit his weight leaves us extremely vulnerable to any nobody who throws from the left side. While I'm not a blame the manager guy, he seems to have never heard of a hit and run, nor sacrificing a runner to third, but when no one on the team knows how to bunt I suppose he's justified in not doing it. Bottom line, this roster is poorly constructed in most every offensive category and needs a major overall.
Re: Cardinals lack 'team' speed .. must change
Posted: 23 Jul 2025 09:03 am
by illiniriles
So which is it, Scouty? Genius or moron? I don't even know who Argo is. I thought it was a pretty good movie with Ben Affleck. I'm just a Cardinal fan that enjoys this site. What I am NOT is a mean spirited jerk. That's your specialty.
JK