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Changes that should be and should've been
Posted: 09 Jul 2025 21:07 pm
by icon
Can we all agree now that Pages is nothing but maybe serviceable MLB backup? His OPS is only better than Hampson's on this roster, and he's not some pitcher whisperer as one know it all on this site suggests. I guess it's okay for him to play out this season if Crooks isn't ready anytime this year. But that should be all, folks!
And Pallante cannot be counted on to be good or for enough swing and miss. Back to the pen or traded.
And Donovan should be traded. You trade high on him and include some others to get value in return where it's desperately needed -- In the outfield and in the rotation. Wetherholt probably will be here next year. And he looks as if he'll be a better version of Donovan, whose bat does not play in a corner OF spot or at 3B.
Mozeliak never ever trades high as good GMs do. He should've traded Fedde in the offseason along with Helsley. Now both have greatly decreased in value -- Fedde to zero. Good riddance to this Mozo.
Re: Changes that should be and should've been
Posted: 09 Jul 2025 21:11 pm
by OldRed
icon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:07 pm
Can we all agree now that Pages is nothing but maybe serviceable MLB backup? His OPS is only better than Hampson's on this roster, and he's not some pitcher whisperer as one know it all on this site suggests. I guess it's okay for him to play out this season if Crooks isn't ready anytime this year. But that should be all, folks!
And Pallante cannot be counted on to be good or for enough swing and miss. Back to the pen or traded.
And Donovan should be traded. You trade high on him and include some others to get value in return where it's desperately needed -- In the outfield and in the rotation. Wetherholt probably will be here next year. And he looks as if he'll be a better version of Donovan, whose bat does not play in a corner OF spot or at 3B.
Mozeliak never ever trades high as good GMs do. He should've traded Fedde in the offseason along with Helsley. Now both have greatly decreased in value -- Fedde to zero. Good riddance to this Mozo.
Agree on most everything, but Helsley has not greatly decreased. He would still be a welcome addition to a contending team.
Re: Changes that should be and should've been
Posted: 09 Jul 2025 21:15 pm
by icon
OldRed wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:11 pm
icon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:07 pm
Can we all agree now that Pages is nothing but maybe serviceable MLB backup? His OPS is only better than Hampson's on this roster, and he's not some pitcher whisperer as one know it all on this site suggests. I guess it's okay for him to play out this season if Crooks isn't ready anytime this year. But that should be all, folks!
And Pallante cannot be counted on to be good or for enough swing and miss. Back to the pen or traded.
And Donovan should be traded. You trade high on him and include some others to get value in return where it's desperately needed -- In the outfield and in the rotation. Wetherholt probably will be here next year. And he looks as if he'll be a better version of Donovan, whose bat does not play in a corner OF spot or at 3B.
Mozeliak never ever trades high as good GMs do. He should've traded Fedde in the offseason along with Helsley. Now both have greatly decreased in value -- Fedde to zero. Good riddance to this Mozo.
Agree on most everything, but Helsley has not greatly decreased. He would still be a welcome addition to a contending team.
But value decreases over time. He was much more valuable in the offseason.
Re: Changes that should be and should've been
Posted: 09 Jul 2025 21:18 pm
by OldRed
icon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:15 pm
OldRed wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:11 pm
icon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:07 pm
Can we all agree now that Pages is nothing but maybe serviceable MLB backup? His OPS is only better than Hampson's on this roster, and he's not some pitcher whisperer as one know it all on this site suggests. I guess it's okay for him to play out this season if Crooks isn't ready anytime this year. But that should be all, folks!
And Pallante cannot be counted on to be good or for enough swing and miss. Back to the pen or traded.
And Donovan should be traded. You trade high on him and include some others to get value in return where it's desperately needed -- In the outfield and in the rotation. Wetherholt probably will be here next year. And he looks as if he'll be a better version of Donovan, whose bat does not play in a corner OF spot or at 3B.
Mozeliak never ever trades high as good GMs do. He should've traded Fedde in the offseason along with Helsley. Now both have greatly decreased in value -- Fedde to zero. Good riddance to this Mozo.
Agree on most everything, but Helsley has not greatly decreased. He would still be a welcome addition to a contending team.
But value decreases over time. He was much more valuable in the offseason.
Disagree.
Re: Changes that should be and should've been
Posted: 09 Jul 2025 21:18 pm
by Ozziesfan41
icon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:15 pm
OldRed wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:11 pm
icon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:07 pm
Can we all agree now that Pages is nothing but maybe serviceable MLB backup? His OPS is only better than Hampson's on this roster, and he's not some pitcher whisperer as one know it all on this site suggests. I guess it's okay for him to play out this season if Crooks isn't ready anytime this year. But that should be all, folks!
And Pallante cannot be counted on to be good or for enough swing and miss. Back to the pen or traded.
And Donovan should be traded. You trade high on him and include some others to get value in return where it's desperately needed -- In the outfield and in the rotation. Wetherholt probably will be here next year. And he looks as if he'll be a better version of Donovan, whose bat does not play in a corner OF spot or at 3B.
Mozeliak never ever trades high as good GMs do. He should've traded Fedde in the offseason along with Helsley. Now both have greatly decreased in value -- Fedde to zero. Good riddance to this Mozo.
Agree on most everything, but Helsley has not greatly decreased. He would still be a welcome addition to a contending team.
But value decreases over time. He was much more valuable in the offseason.
+1 he has also blown more saves already than all of last season and teams notice things like even in his last couple of innings he got the saves but was hit hard. He has value but far less than the off season
Re: Changes that should be and should've been
Posted: 09 Jul 2025 21:20 pm
by OldRed
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:18 pm
icon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:15 pm
OldRed wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:11 pm
icon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:07 pm
Can we all agree now that Pages is nothing but maybe serviceable MLB backup? His OPS is only better than Hampson's on this roster, and he's not some pitcher whisperer as one know it all on this site suggests. I guess it's okay for him to play out this season if Crooks isn't ready anytime this year. But that should be all, folks!
And Pallante cannot be counted on to be good or for enough swing and miss. Back to the pen or traded.
And Donovan should be traded. You trade high on him and include some others to get value in return where it's desperately needed -- In the outfield and in the rotation. Wetherholt probably will be here next year. And he looks as if he'll be a better version of Donovan, whose bat does not play in a corner OF spot or at 3B.
Mozeliak never ever trades high as good GMs do. He should've traded Fedde in the offseason along with Helsley. Now both have greatly decreased in value -- Fedde to zero. Good riddance to this Mozo.
Agree on most everything, but Helsley has not greatly decreased. He would still be a welcome addition to a contending team.
But value decreases over time. He was much more valuable in the offseason.
+1 he has also blown more saves already than all of last season and teams notice things like even in his last couple of innings he got the saves but was hit hard. He has value but far less than the off season
I still disagree. A contender needing a closer would grab him in a heart beat.
Re: Changes that should be and should've been
Posted: 09 Jul 2025 21:22 pm
by craviduce
trading Helsley in the offseason hit a roadblock, because there was basically zero market for a closer. 1 trade happened, 1 FA signing happened all of the off season. The offers we had were bad, I don't put any blame on Mo for not trading Helsley. Derrick Goold documented this back in January. You can't MAKE another team give you what you want if there's zero urgency in trading for a closer.
Re: Changes that should be and should've been
Posted: 09 Jul 2025 21:23 pm
by icon
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:18 pm
icon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:15 pm
OldRed wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:11 pm
icon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:07 pm
Can we all agree now that Pages is nothing but maybe serviceable MLB backup? His OPS is only better than Hampson's on this roster, and he's not some pitcher whisperer as one know it all on this site suggests. I guess it's okay for him to play out this season if Crooks isn't ready anytime this year. But that should be all, folks!
And Pallante cannot be counted on to be good or for enough swing and miss. Back to the pen or traded.
And Donovan should be traded. You trade high on him and include some others to get value in return where it's desperately needed -- In the outfield and in the rotation. Wetherholt probably will be here next year. And he looks as if he'll be a better version of Donovan, whose bat does not play in a corner OF spot or at 3B.
Mozeliak never ever trades high as good GMs do. He should've traded Fedde in the offseason along with Helsley. Now both have greatly decreased in value -- Fedde to zero. Good riddance to this Mozo.
Agree on most everything, but Helsley has not greatly decreased. He would still be a welcome addition to a contending team.
But value decreases over time. He was much more valuable in the offseason.
+1 he has also blown more saves already than all of last season and teams notice things like even in his last couple of innings he got the saves but was hit hard. He has value but far less than the off season
Yeah, career years come around once. And he had his last year. He's not nearly as dominant this year.
Re: Changes that should be and should've been
Posted: 09 Jul 2025 21:24 pm
by icon
OldRed wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:20 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:18 pm
icon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:15 pm
OldRed wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:11 pm
icon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:07 pm
Can we all agree now that Pages is nothing but maybe serviceable MLB backup? His OPS is only better than Hampson's on this roster, and he's not some pitcher whisperer as one know it all on this site suggests. I guess it's okay for him to play out this season if Crooks isn't ready anytime this year. But that should be all, folks!
And Pallante cannot be counted on to be good or for enough swing and miss. Back to the pen or traded.
And Donovan should be traded. You trade high on him and include some others to get value in return where it's desperately needed -- In the outfield and in the rotation. Wetherholt probably will be here next year. And he looks as if he'll be a better version of Donovan, whose bat does not play in a corner OF spot or at 3B.
Mozeliak never ever trades high as good GMs do. He should've traded Fedde in the offseason along with Helsley. Now both have greatly decreased in value -- Fedde to zero. Good riddance to this Mozo.
Agree on most everything, but Helsley has not greatly decreased. He would still be a welcome addition to a contending team.
But value decreases over time. He was much more valuable in the offseason.
+1 he has also blown more saves already than all of last season and teams notice things like even in his last couple of innings he got the saves but was hit hard. He has value but far less than the off season
I still disagree. A contender needing a closer would grab him in a heart beat.
Of course, but we're talking value. What would a contender give up now compared with last offseason? He was the best closer in MLB last season. Not so much this season.
Re: Changes that should be and should've been
Posted: 09 Jul 2025 21:29 pm
by OldRed
icon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:24 pm
OldRed wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:20 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:18 pm
icon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:15 pm
OldRed wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:11 pm
icon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:07 pm
Can we all agree now that Pages is nothing but maybe serviceable MLB backup? His OPS is only better than Hampson's on this roster, and he's not some pitcher whisperer as one know it all on this site suggests. I guess it's okay for him to play out this season if Crooks isn't ready anytime this year. But that should be all, folks!
And Pallante cannot be counted on to be good or for enough swing and miss. Back to the pen or traded.
And Donovan should be traded. You trade high on him and include some others to get value in return where it's desperately needed -- In the outfield and in the rotation. Wetherholt probably will be here next year. And he looks as if he'll be a better version of Donovan, whose bat does not play in a corner OF spot or at 3B.
Mozeliak never ever trades high as good GMs do. He should've traded Fedde in the offseason along with Helsley. Now both have greatly decreased in value -- Fedde to zero. Good riddance to this Mozo.
Agree on most everything, but Helsley has not greatly decreased. He would still be a welcome addition to a contending team.
But value decreases over time. He was much more valuable in the offseason.
+1 he has also blown more saves already than all of last season and teams notice things like even in his last couple of innings he got the saves but was hit hard. He has value but far less than the off season
I still disagree. A contender needing a closer would grab him in a heart beat.
Of course, but we're talking value. What would a contender give up now compared with last offseason? He was the best closer in MLB last season. Not so much this season.
More young talent at this point because they would have a need for a closer. He is healthy and that is the most important thing. In the winter they don't know that for sure..
Re: Changes that should be and should've been
Posted: 09 Jul 2025 21:37 pm
by ramfandan
craviduce wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:22 pm
trading Helsley in the offseason hit a roadblock, because there was basically zero market for a closer. 1 trade happened, 1 FA signing happened all of the off season. The offers we had were bad, I don't put any blame on Mo for not trading Helsley. Derrick Goold documented this back in January. You can't MAKE another team give you what you want if there's zero urgency in trading for a closer.
Ding ding !
Excellent points that others disregard.
Goold wrote about it last January.
Re: Changes that should be and should've been
Posted: 09 Jul 2025 21:38 pm
by Talkin' Baseball
Helsley is just as marketable. There is definitely interest in him. But there is no doubt that the return will be less.
Re: Changes that should be and should've been
Posted: 09 Jul 2025 21:41 pm
by icon
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:38 pm
Helsley is just as marketable. There is definitely interest in him. But there is no doubt that the return will be less.
Sure, that's what I'm saying -- there's a market, but the value has likely diminished, especially for a rental.
Re: Changes that should be and should've been
Posted: 09 Jul 2025 21:45 pm
by BrockFloodMaris
icon wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:07 pm
Can we all agree now that Pages is nothing but maybe serviceable MLB backup? His OPS is only better than Hampson's on this roster, and he's not some pitcher whisperer as one know it all on this site suggests. I guess it's okay for him to play out this season if Crooks isn't ready anytime this year. But that should be all, folks!
And Pallante cannot be counted on to be good or for enough swing and miss. Back to the pen or traded.
And Donovan should be traded. You trade high on him and include some others to get value in return where it's desperately needed -- In the outfield and in the rotation. Wetherholt probably will be here next year. And he looks as if he'll be a better version of Donovan, whose bat does not play in a corner OF spot or at 3B.
Mozeliak never ever trades high as good GMs do. He should've traded Fedde in the offseason along with Helsley. Now both have greatly decreased in value -- Fedde to zero. Good riddance to this Mozo.
I’m with you on Pages. Let him share catching with Pozo 50/50 until September, when Crooks III is called up. Pallante is a fine #5 starter, but he’s our #3. Trade Donovan, I’m fine with that. Just package him with Noot and Crooks III and get a top prospect back. I think Helsley may get a QO. Mo has THE WORST TIMING EVER.
Re: Changes that should be and should've been
Posted: 09 Jul 2025 21:54 pm
by ramfandan
Regarding changes…
Mo departing is the major change this team needs.
He has our best prospect in AAA now who will be 23 in Sept.
JJ is currently better than several players on our major league roster.
The Brewers have Chourio their best kid who just turned 21 in March contributing in the majors.
That’s why reward GM Matt Arnold was voted executive of the year.
He isn’t afraid to bring a youngster up… see rookie P Misiorowski too.
If Mo ran the Brewers those two would still be in the minors.
Telling Brewer fans they needed more seasoning blah blah
Vice versa if Arnold was running Cards JJ would be playing currently
over Saggese, Gorman, etc.
Hoping Bloom will be more like Arnold
Re: Changes that should be and should've been
Posted: 09 Jul 2025 23:01 pm
by 82birds
ramfandan wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 21:54 pm
Regarding changes…
Mo departing is the major change this team needs.
He has our best prospect in AAA now who will be 23 in Sept.
JJ is currently better than several players on our major league roster.
The Brewers have Chourio their best kid who just turned 21 in March contributing in the majors.
That’s why reward GM Matt Arnold was voted executive of the year.
He isn’t afraid to bring a youngster up… see rookie P Misiorowski too.
If Mo ran the Brewers those two would still be in the minors.
Telling Brewer fans they needed more seasoning blah blah
Vice versa if Arnold was running Cards JJ would be playing currently
over Saggese, Gorman, etc.
Hoping Bloom will be more like Arnold
agree
did you see Misiorowski struck out 12 Dodgers Tuesday night?