STLtoday.com

Posted: **09 Jul 2025 17:35 pm**

See below for the WAR hitting leaders - but we currently have maybe one position player that will exceed 4 WAR and about 10 that will finish in the 0-2.x WAR range. Every time I hear - lets trade this guy or that guy and maybe get a "nice prospect", I immediately think - does Nice prospect mean a 6+ WAR bat, or does it mean more clutter in the mix of JAGs? We certainly don't need more 1-2 WAR players on this team - they are a dime a dozen and we have nearly a dozen. So what's the point of obsessing about all these little trades for little players when we need to target someone who can make this list below (or is already in it)? How do we actually make a game changing move here?

(multiple by around 1.8 to get estimated full season WARs).
1. Judge • NYY 6.6
2. Crow-Armstrong • CHC 5.2
3. Raleigh • SEA 4.9
4. Peña • HOU 4.6
5. Witt • KCR 4.3
6. Wood • WSN 4.2
7. Tucker • CHC 4.1
8. Smith • LAD 4.0
9. Ohtani • LAD 4.0
10. Soto • NYM 3.8

Posted: **09 Jul 2025 17:40 pm**

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:35 pm See below for the WAR hitting leaders - but we currently have maybe one position player that will exceed 4 WAR and about 10 that will finish in the 0-2.x WAR range. Every time I hear - lets trade this guy or that guy and maybe get a "nice prospect", I immediately think - does Nice prospect mean a 6+ WAR bat, or does it mean more clutter in the mix of JAGs? We certainly don't need more 1-2 WAR players on this team - they are a dime a dozen and we have nearly a dozen. So what's the point of obsessing about all these little trades for little players when we need to target someone who can make this list below (or is already in it)? How do we actually make a game changing move here?

(multiple by around 1.8 to get estimated full season WARs).
1. Judge • NYY 6.6
2. Crow-Armstrong • CHC 5.2
3. Raleigh • SEA 4.9
4. Peña • HOU 4.6
5. Witt • KCR 4.3
6. Wood • WSN 4.2
7. Tucker • CHC 4.1
8. Smith • LAD 4.0
9. Ohtani • LAD 4.0
10. Soto • NYM 3.8

Cool. No sure fire 6 war players are just hanging around available in trades nor if they were wpuld we be trading the sure fire chips to get one.

Jordan walker was ranked one of the best prospe ts in all of baseball and supposed to be one of those guys. It was a bust.

Posted: **09 Jul 2025 17:51 pm**

Wattage wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:40 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:35 pm See below for the WAR hitting leaders - but we currently have maybe one position player that will exceed 4 WAR and about 10 that will finish in the 0-2.x WAR range. Every time I hear - lets trade this guy or that guy and maybe get a "nice prospect", I immediately think - does Nice prospect mean a 6+ WAR bat, or does it mean more clutter in the mix of JAGs? We certainly don't need more 1-2 WAR players on this team - they are a dime a dozen and we have nearly a dozen. So what's the point of obsessing about all these little trades for little players when we need to target someone who can make this list below (or is already in it)? How do we actually make a game changing move here?

(multiple by around 1.8 to get estimated full season WARs).
1. Judge • NYY 6.6
2. Crow-Armstrong • CHC 5.2
3. Raleigh • SEA 4.9
4. Peña • HOU 4.6
5. Witt • KCR 4.3
6. Wood • WSN 4.2
7. Tucker • CHC 4.1
8. Smith • LAD 4.0
9. Ohtani • LAD 4.0
10. Soto • NYM 3.8
Cool. No sure fire 6 war players are just hanging around available in trades nor if they were wpuld we be trading the sure fire chips to get one.

Jordan walker was ranked one of the best prospe ts in all of baseball and supposed to be one of those guys. It was a bust.

Jocketty got McGwire, Renterria, Edmonds, and Rolen, and Holliday (or was that Mo?). And Mo got Nado and Goldy during their primes. Its certainly possible.

Posted: **09 Jul 2025 17:52 pm**

Whose the best chance to become a star, or at least a middle of lineup producer

Wetherholt
Herrera
Baez

Posted: **09 Jul 2025 17:57 pm**

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:51 pm
Wattage wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:40 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:35 pm See below for the WAR hitting leaders - but we currently have maybe one position player that will exceed 4 WAR and about 10 that will finish in the 0-2.x WAR range. Every time I hear - lets trade this guy or that guy and maybe get a "nice prospect", I immediately think - does Nice prospect mean a 6+ WAR bat, or does it mean more clutter in the mix of JAGs? We certainly don't need more 1-2 WAR players on this team - they are a dime a dozen and we have nearly a dozen. So what's the point of obsessing about all these little trades for little players when we need to target someone who can make this list below (or is already in it)? How do we actually make a game changing move here?

(multiple by around 1.8 to get estimated full season WARs).
1. Judge • NYY 6.6
2. Crow-Armstrong • CHC 5.2
3. Raleigh • SEA 4.9
4. Peña • HOU 4.6
5. Witt • KCR 4.3
6. Wood • WSN 4.2
7. Tucker • CHC 4.1
8. Smith • LAD 4.0
9. Ohtani • LAD 4.0
10. Soto • NYM 3.8
Cool. No sure fire 6 war players are just hanging around available in trades nor if they were wpuld we be trading the sure fire chips to get one.

Jordan walker was ranked one of the best prospe ts in all of baseball and supposed to be one of those guys. It was a bust.
Jocketty got McGwire, Renterria, Edmonds, and Rolen, and Holliday (or was that Mo?). And Mo got Nado and Goldy during their primes. Its certainly possible.

Jocketty was gone for several years before we got holliday.

Posted: **09 Jul 2025 18:00 pm**

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:35 pm See below for the WAR hitting leaders - but we currently have maybe one position player that will exceed 4 WAR and about 10 that will finish in the 0-2.x WAR range. Every time I hear - lets trade this guy or that guy and maybe get a "nice prospect", I immediately think - does Nice prospect mean a 6+ WAR bat, or does it mean more clutter in the mix of JAGs? We certainly don't need more 1-2 WAR players on this team - they are a dime a dozen and we have nearly a dozen. So what's the point of obsessing about all these little trades for little players when we need to target someone who can make this list below (or is already in it)? How do we actually make a game changing move here?

(multiple by around 1.8 to get estimated full season WARs).
1. Judge • NYY 6.6
2. Crow-Armstrong • CHC 5.2
3. Raleigh • SEA 4.9
4. Peña • HOU 4.6
5. Witt • KCR 4.3
6. Wood • WSN 4.2
7. Tucker • CHC 4.1
8. Smith • LAD 4.0
9. Ohtani • LAD 4.0
10. Soto • NYM 3.8

I think Armstrong is playing a little over his head right now and it obviously helps to have a stud like Tucker in the lineup. Those players you speak of are exceedingly hard to come by and teams don't usually trade them. As shown by your list, they are pretty well not obtainable. I'd be happy with a few around 2.5 or so. We have one in Donovan but we could really use 2 more. Maybe a few of the young guys turn into that player. The problem is going to be paying them if they reach that plateau. Something DeWitt doesn't want to do.

Posted: **09 Jul 2025 19:20 pm**

CCard wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 18:00 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:35 pm See below for the WAR hitting leaders - but we currently have maybe one position player that will exceed 4 WAR and about 10 that will finish in the 0-2.x WAR range. Every time I hear - lets trade this guy or that guy and maybe get a "nice prospect", I immediately think - does Nice prospect mean a 6+ WAR bat, or does it mean more clutter in the mix of JAGs? We certainly don't need more 1-2 WAR players on this team - they are a dime a dozen and we have nearly a dozen. So what's the point of obsessing about all these little trades for little players when we need to target someone who can make this list below (or is already in it)? How do we actually make a game changing move here?

(multiple by around 1.8 to get estimated full season WARs).
1. Judge • NYY 6.6
2. Crow-Armstrong • CHC 5.2
3. Raleigh • SEA 4.9
4. Peña • HOU 4.6
5. Witt • KCR 4.3
6. Wood • WSN 4.2
7. Tucker • CHC 4.1
8. Smith • LAD 4.0
9. Ohtani • LAD 4.0
10. Soto • NYM 3.8
I think Armstrong is playing a little over his head right now and it obviously helps to have a stud like Tucker in the lineup. Those players you speak of are exceedingly hard to come by and teams don't usually trade them. As shown by your list, they are pretty well not obtainable. I'd be happy with a few around 2.5 or so. We have one in Donovan but we could really use 2 more. Maybe a few of the young guys turn into that player. The problem is going to be paying them if they reach that plateau. Something DeWitt doesn't want to do.

You make some points - if we have one of this type of slugger like Tucker, it could make some of the young guys like IH, Noot, Gorman look a lot better. More ABs, more RBI chances, longer innings and more times thru the lineup every game. Which is exactly why we need an elite player - to make everyone around them better. Just adding more of the same level won't do that. Quality over quantity.

Meanwhile - remember this IS the Freaking STL Cardinals. We have brought in many All star and elite players this century: McGwire, Renteria, Edmonds, Rolen, Holliday, Beltran, Goldschmidt, Arenado. We absolutely can and should continue to make these types of trades to change the level of this franchise. Its not impossible, its just been a minute so many fans have forgotten it Can happen.

Posted: **09 Jul 2025 19:34 pm**

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 19:20 pm
CCard wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 18:00 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:35 pm See below for the WAR hitting leaders - but we currently have maybe one position player that will exceed 4 WAR and about 10 that will finish in the 0-2.x WAR range. Every time I hear - lets trade this guy or that guy and maybe get a "nice prospect", I immediately think - does Nice prospect mean a 6+ WAR bat, or does it mean more clutter in the mix of JAGs? We certainly don't need more 1-2 WAR players on this team - they are a dime a dozen and we have nearly a dozen. So what's the point of obsessing about all these little trades for little players when we need to target someone who can make this list below (or is already in it)? How do we actually make a game changing move here?

(multiple by around 1.8 to get estimated full season WARs).
1. Judge • NYY 6.6
2. Crow-Armstrong • CHC 5.2
3. Raleigh • SEA 4.9
4. Peña • HOU 4.6
5. Witt • KCR 4.3
6. Wood • WSN 4.2
7. Tucker • CHC 4.1
8. Smith • LAD 4.0
9. Ohtani • LAD 4.0
10. Soto • NYM 3.8
I think Armstrong is playing a little over his head right now and it obviously helps to have a stud like Tucker in the lineup. Those players you speak of are exceedingly hard to come by and teams don't usually trade them. As shown by your list, they are pretty well not obtainable. I'd be happy with a few around 2.5 or so. We have one in Donovan but we could really use 2 more. Maybe a few of the young guys turn into that player. The problem is going to be paying them if they reach that plateau. Something DeWitt doesn't want to do.
You make some points - if we have one of this type of slugger like Tucker, it could make some of the young guys like IH, Noot, Gorman look a lot better. More ABs, more RBI chances, longer innings and more times thru the lineup every game. Which is exactly why we need an elite player - to make everyone around them better. Just adding more of the same level won't do that. Quality over quantity.

Meanwhile - remember this IS the Freaking STL Cardinals. We have brought in many All star and elite players this century: McGwire, Renteria, Edmonds, Rolen, Holliday, Beltran, Goldschmidt, Arenado. We absolutely can and should continue to make these types of trades to change the level of this franchise. Its not impossible, its just been a minute so many fans have forgotten it Can happen.

The bar has been lowered and seems everyone has joined the hyperventilating prospect geek fraternity. As if some team’s mid prospects they don’t care to lose are going to all jump from the minors next year and become superstars for us.

Building a foundation from JAGs is worthless and is exactly what is going on and so many want to double down on it. This team needs a shot of star power. Overpay like everyone else, at least for one guy, preferably an OFer worth a (bleep).

Posted: **09 Jul 2025 19:35 pm**

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:35 pm See below for the WAR hitting leaders - but we currently have maybe one position player that will exceed 4 WAR and about 10 that will finish in the 0-2.x WAR range. Every time I hear - lets trade this guy or that guy and maybe get a "nice prospect", I immediately think - does Nice prospect mean a 6+ WAR bat, or does it mean more clutter in the mix of JAGs? We certainly don't need more 1-2 WAR players on this team - they are a dime a dozen and we have nearly a dozen. So what's the point of obsessing about all these little trades for little players when we need to target someone who can make this list below (or is already in it)? How do we actually make a game changing move here?

(multiple by around 1.8 to get estimated full season WARs).
1. Judge • NYY 6.6
2. Crow-Armstrong • CHC 5.2
3. Raleigh • SEA 4.9
4. Peña • HOU 4.6
5. Witt • KCR 4.3
6. Wood • WSN 4.2
7. Tucker • CHC 4.1
8. Smith • LAD 4.0
9. Ohtani • LAD 4.0
10. Soto • NYM 3.8

How many are there and what's the price?

Posted: **09 Jul 2025 19:39 pm**

Wattage wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:40 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:35 pm See below for the WAR hitting leaders - but we currently have maybe one position player that will exceed 4 WAR and about 10 that will finish in the 0-2.x WAR range. Every time I hear - lets trade this guy or that guy and maybe get a "nice prospect", I immediately think - does Nice prospect mean a 6+ WAR bat, or does it mean more clutter in the mix of JAGs? We certainly don't need more 1-2 WAR players on this team - they are a dime a dozen and we have nearly a dozen. So what's the point of obsessing about all these little trades for little players when we need to target someone who can make this list below (or is already in it)? How do we actually make a game changing move here?

(multiple by around 1.8 to get estimated full season WARs).
1. Judge • NYY 6.6
2. Crow-Armstrong • CHC 5.2
3. Raleigh • SEA 4.9
4. Peña • HOU 4.6
5. Witt • KCR 4.3
6. Wood • WSN 4.2
7. Tucker • CHC 4.1
8. Smith • LAD 4.0
9. Ohtani • LAD 4.0
10. Soto • NYM 3.8
Cool. No sure fire 6 war players are just hanging around available in trades nor if they were wpuld we be trading the sure fire chips to get one.

Jordan walker was ranked one of the best prospe ts in all of baseball and supposed to be one of those guys. It was a bust.

Well Soto was traded twice and Tucker was just traded last offseason. And to some extent PCA was traded too.

Posted: **09 Jul 2025 19:43 pm**

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:35 pm Cards need a 6+ WAR slugger, not more JAGs

We need more good hitters, not more JAGoffs.

Posted: **09 Jul 2025 19:59 pm**

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 19:35 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:35 pm See below for the WAR hitting leaders - but we currently have maybe one position player that will exceed 4 WAR and about 10 that will finish in the 0-2.x WAR range. Every time I hear - lets trade this guy or that guy and maybe get a "nice prospect", I immediately think - does Nice prospect mean a 6+ WAR bat, or does it mean more clutter in the mix of JAGs? We certainly don't need more 1-2 WAR players on this team - they are a dime a dozen and we have nearly a dozen. So what's the point of obsessing about all these little trades for little players when we need to target someone who can make this list below (or is already in it)? How do we actually make a game changing move here?

(multiple by around 1.8 to get estimated full season WARs).
1. Judge • NYY 6.6
2. Crow-Armstrong • CHC 5.2
3. Raleigh • SEA 4.9
4. Peña • HOU 4.6
5. Witt • KCR 4.3
6. Wood • WSN 4.2
7. Tucker • CHC 4.1
8. Smith • LAD 4.0
9. Ohtani • LAD 4.0
10. Soto • NYM 3.8
How many are there and what's the price?

Not exactly growing in trees, I’ll give you that, but there’s always a move to be made if you’re willing to pay and give up some of those faberge eggs. It’s the GMs job to find them.

Everyone’s latest favorite gonna-be star JJW and one of those catchers on the farm should net a high end player from a rebuilding team that can help us now and the future. It might entail a trade and sign to ensure control. When was the last time we saw a bold and creative move like that?

So many seem willing to keep on waiting and waiting for the next great hope from our system while the team has shown a consistent inability to develop them to their supposed superstar potential.

Posted: **09 Jul 2025 20:53 pm**

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:35 pm See below for the WAR hitting leaders - but we currently have maybe one position player that will exceed 4 WAR and about 10 that will finish in the 0-2.x WAR range. Every time I hear - lets trade this guy or that guy and maybe get a "nice prospect", I immediately think - does Nice prospect mean a 6+ WAR bat, or does it mean more clutter in the mix of JAGs? We certainly don't need more 1-2 WAR players on this team - they are a dime a dozen and we have nearly a dozen. So what's the point of obsessing about all these little trades for little players when we need to target someone who can make this list below (or is already in it)? How do we actually make a game changing move here?

(multiple by around 1.8 to get estimated full season WARs).
1. Judge • NYY 6.6
2. Crow-Armstrong • CHC 5.2
3. Raleigh • SEA 4.9
4. Peña • HOU 4.6
5. Witt • KCR 4.3
6. Wood • WSN 4.2
7. Tucker • CHC 4.1
8. Smith • LAD 4.0
9. Ohtani • LAD 4.0
10. Soto • NYM 3.8

I think what BDW and Chaim Bloom hope to do is develop an organization that promotes one 4+ WAR player a year to the MLB roster.

Posted: **09 Jul 2025 20:57 pm**

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:51 pm
Wattage wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:40 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:35 pm See below for the WAR hitting leaders - but we currently have maybe one position player that will exceed 4 WAR and about 10 that will finish in the 0-2.x WAR range. Every time I hear - lets trade this guy or that guy and maybe get a "nice prospect", I immediately think - does Nice prospect mean a 6+ WAR bat, or does it mean more clutter in the mix of JAGs? We certainly don't need more 1-2 WAR players on this team - they are a dime a dozen and we have nearly a dozen. So what's the point of obsessing about all these little trades for little players when we need to target someone who can make this list below (or is already in it)? How do we actually make a game changing move here?

(multiple by around 1.8 to get estimated full season WARs).
1. Judge • NYY 6.6
2. Crow-Armstrong • CHC 5.2
3. Raleigh • SEA 4.9
4. Peña • HOU 4.6
5. Witt • KCR 4.3
6. Wood • WSN 4.2
7. Tucker • CHC 4.1
8. Smith • LAD 4.0
9. Ohtani • LAD 4.0
10. Soto • NYM 3.8
Cool. No sure fire 6 war players are just hanging around available in trades nor if they were wpuld we be trading the sure fire chips to get one.

Jordan walker was ranked one of the best prospe ts in all of baseball and supposed to be one of those guys. It was a bust.
Jocketty got McGwire, Renterria, Edmonds, and Rolen, and Holliday (or was that Mo?). And Mo got Nado and Goldy during their primes. Its certainly possible.

He also resigned Pujols who had a great final year. Sure he got lucky, but Albert was fun to watch in his final season.

Posted: **09 Jul 2025 20:59 pm**

BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 20:53 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:35 pm See below for the WAR hitting leaders - but we currently have maybe one position player that will exceed 4 WAR and about 10 that will finish in the 0-2.x WAR range. Every time I hear - lets trade this guy or that guy and maybe get a "nice prospect", I immediately think - does Nice prospect mean a 6+ WAR bat, or does it mean more clutter in the mix of JAGs? We certainly don't need more 1-2 WAR players on this team - they are a dime a dozen and we have nearly a dozen. So what's the point of obsessing about all these little trades for little players when we need to target someone who can make this list below (or is already in it)? How do we actually make a game changing move here?

(multiple by around 1.8 to get estimated full season WARs).
1. Judge • NYY 6.6
2. Crow-Armstrong • CHC 5.2
3. Raleigh • SEA 4.9
4. Peña • HOU 4.6
5. Witt • KCR 4.3
6. Wood • WSN 4.2
7. Tucker • CHC 4.1
8. Smith • LAD 4.0
9. Ohtani • LAD 4.0
10. Soto • NYM 3.8
I think what BDW and Chaim Bloom hope to do is develop an organization that promotes one 4+ WAR player a year to the MLB roster.

That has been DeWitts hope for over a decade. Mo failed miserably.

Posted: **09 Jul 2025 20:59 pm**

Wattage wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:57 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:51 pm
Wattage wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:40 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2025 17:35 pm See below for the WAR hitting leaders - but we currently have maybe one position player that will exceed 4 WAR and about 10 that will finish in the 0-2.x WAR range. Every time I hear - lets trade this guy or that guy and maybe get a "nice prospect", I immediately think - does Nice prospect mean a 6+ WAR bat, or does it mean more clutter in the mix of JAGs? We certainly don't need more 1-2 WAR players on this team - they are a dime a dozen and we have nearly a dozen. So what's the point of obsessing about all these little trades for little players when we need to target someone who can make this list below (or is already in it)? How do we actually make a game changing move here?

(multiple by around 1.8 to get estimated full season WARs).
1. Judge • NYY 6.6
2. Crow-Armstrong • CHC 5.2
3. Raleigh • SEA 4.9
4. Peña • HOU 4.6
5. Witt • KCR 4.3
6. Wood • WSN 4.2
7. Tucker • CHC 4.1
8. Smith • LAD 4.0
9. Ohtani • LAD 4.0
10. Soto • NYM 3.8
Cool. No sure fire 6 war players are just hanging around available in trades nor if they were wpuld we be trading the sure fire chips to get one.

Jordan walker was ranked one of the best prospe ts in all of baseball and supposed to be one of those guys. It was a bust.
Jocketty got McGwire, Renterria, Edmonds, and Rolen, and Holliday (or was that Mo?). And Mo got Nado and Goldy during their primes. Its certainly possible.
Jocketty was gone for several years before we got holliday.

So you're saying Mo used to know how to do it.

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Cards need a 6+ WAR slugger, not more JAGs

Cards need a 6+ WAR slugger, not more JAGs

Re: Cards need a 6+ WAR slugger, not more JAGs

Re: Cards need a 6+ WAR slugger, not more JAGs

Re: Cards need a 6+ WAR slugger, not more JAGs

Re: Cards need a 6+ WAR slugger, not more JAGs

Re: Cards need a 6+ WAR slugger, not more JAGs

Re: Cards need a 6+ WAR slugger, not more JAGs

Re: Cards need a 6+ WAR slugger, not more JAGs

Re: Cards need a 6+ WAR slugger, not more JAGs

Re: Cards need a 6+ WAR slugger, not more JAGs

Re: Cards need a 6+ WAR slugger, not more JAGs

Re: Cards need a 6+ WAR slugger, not more JAGs

Re: Cards need a 6+ WAR slugger, not more JAGs

Re: Cards need a 6+ WAR slugger, not more JAGs

Re: Cards need a 6+ WAR slugger, not more JAGs

Re: Cards need a 6+ WAR slugger, not more JAGs