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Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:40 pm Ok:
Gray pitched 6/12 @ Milwaukee.
They basically skipped over his next start giving him extra rest. Not saying that was wrong.
Gray pitched 6/21 vs the Reds.
Gray then pitched on Friday dominating the Guardians as they went to a six man rotation.
Not saying that was wrong either but he did miss pitching in the Cubs series.
Now....I see he’s “listed” to start on turn Wednesday at Pittsburgh.
Maybe that will change but if it doesn’t it means our best starter didn’t pitch AT ALL vs. the Cubs?
Huh???????

Wattage wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:48 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:40 pm Ok:
Gray pitched 6/12 @ Milwaukee.
They basically skipped over his next start giving him extra rest. Not saying that was wrong.
Gray pitched 6/21 vs the Reds.
Gray then pitched on Friday dominating the Guardians as they went to a six man rotation.
Not saying that was wrong either but he did miss pitching in the Cubs series.
Now....I see he’s “listed” to start on turn Wednesday at Pittsburgh.
Maybe that will change but if it doesn’t it means our best starter didn’t pitch AT ALL vs. the Cubs?
Huh???????

1. We have games with cubs later in the year too
2. Hes old, they pushed him back a day from facing cubs sp that he didnt have to pitch in sweltering heat.
3. Im not really worried about aligning rotation to opponents this early in season. Apl wins are wins and cubs could collapse and we be staring down milwaukee at yeats end. Or wild card could ve what we are close to. Right now wins are wins and i dont think we need to tailor to opponent.

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 19:05 pm

Wattage wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:48 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:40 pm Ok:
Gray pitched 6/12 @ Milwaukee.
They basically skipped over his next start giving him extra rest. Not saying that was wrong.
Gray pitched 6/21 vs the Reds.
Gray then pitched on Friday dominating the Guardians as they went to a six man rotation.
Not saying that was wrong either but he did miss pitching in the Cubs series.
Now....I see he’s “listed” to start on turn Wednesday at Pittsburgh.
Maybe that will change but if it doesn’t it means our best starter didn’t pitch AT ALL vs. the Cubs?
Huh???????

1. We have games with cubs later in the year too
2. Hes old, they pushed him back a day from facing cubs sp that he didnt have to pitch in sweltering heat.
3. Im not really worried about aligning rotation to opponents this early in season. Apl wins are wins and cubs could collapse and we be staring down milwaukee at yeats end. Or wild card could ve what we are close to. Right now wins are wins and i dont think we need to tailor to opponent.

Very good points well taken!
I have been critical of Oli before but not trying to pile on him.
Possible that Gray doesn’t start Wednesday and gets some extra rest again and does open the Cubs series Friday?
If not, like you said a win is a win, and he was brilliant Friday with some extra rest!

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 19:31 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 19:05 pm

Wattage wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:48 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:40 pm Ok:
Gray pitched 6/12 @ Milwaukee.
They basically skipped over his next start giving him extra rest. Not saying that was wrong.
Gray pitched 6/21 vs the Reds.
Gray then pitched on Friday dominating the Guardians as they went to a six man rotation.
Not saying that was wrong either but he did miss pitching in the Cubs series.
Now....I see he’s “listed” to start on turn Wednesday at Pittsburgh.
Maybe that will change but if it doesn’t it means our best starter didn’t pitch AT ALL vs. the Cubs?
Huh???????

1. We have games with cubs later in the year too
2. Hes old, they pushed him back a day from facing cubs sp that he didnt have to pitch in sweltering heat.
3. Im not really worried about aligning rotation to opponents this early in season. Apl wins are wins and cubs could collapse and we be staring down milwaukee at yeats end. Or wild card could ve what we are close to. Right now wins are wins and i dont think we need to tailor to opponent.

Very good points well taken!
I have been critical of Oli before but not trying to pile on him.
Possible that Gray doesn’t start Wednesday and gets some extra rest again and does open the Cubs series Friday?
If not, like you said a win is a win, and he was brilliant Friday with some extra rest!

All wins are not the same. Wins against the team your chasing in the division are obviously more important. The fact that Marmol didn't pitch Gray against the Cubs and his atrocious lineups for the Sat. and Sun. games after winning the first 2 are fireable offenses! The guy is clueless!

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 19:31 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 19:05 pm

Wattage wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:48 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:40 pm Ok:
Gray pitched 6/12 @ Milwaukee.
They basically skipped over his next start giving him extra rest. Not saying that was wrong.
Gray pitched 6/21 vs the Reds.
Gray then pitched on Friday dominating the Guardians as they went to a six man rotation.
Not saying that was wrong either but he did miss pitching in the Cubs series.
Now....I see he’s “listed” to start on turn Wednesday at Pittsburgh.
Maybe that will change but if it doesn’t it means our best starter didn’t pitch AT ALL vs. the Cubs?
Huh???????

1. We have games with cubs later in the year too
2. Hes old, they pushed him back a day from facing cubs sp that he didnt have to pitch in sweltering heat.
3. Im not really worried about aligning rotation to opponents this early in season. Apl wins are wins and cubs could collapse and we be staring down milwaukee at yeats end. Or wild card could ve what we are close to. Right now wins are wins and i dont think we need to tailor to opponent.

Very good points well taken!
I have been critical of Oli before but not trying to pile on him.
Possible that Gray doesn’t start Wednesday and gets some extra rest again and does open the Cubs series Friday?
If not, like you said a win is a win, and he was brilliant Friday with some extra rest!

All wins are not the same. Wins against the team your chasing in the division are obviously more important. The fact that Marmol didn't pitch Gray against the Cubs and his atrocious lineups for the Sat. and Sun. games after winning the first 2 are fireable offenses! The guy is clueless!

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:40 pm Ok:
Gray pitched 6/12 @ Milwaukee.
They basically skipped over his next start giving him extra rest. Not saying that was wrong.
Gray pitched 6/21 vs the Reds.
Gray then pitched on Friday dominating the Guardians as they went to a six man rotation.
Not saying that was wrong either but he did miss pitching in the Cubs series.
Now....I see he’s “listed” to start on turn Wednesday at Pittsburgh.
Maybe that will change but if it doesn’t it means our best starter didn’t pitch AT ALL vs. the Cubs?
Huh???????

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 20:53 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 19:31 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 19:05 pm

Wattage wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:48 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:40 pm Ok:
Gray pitched 6/12 @ Milwaukee.
They basically skipped over his next start giving him extra rest. Not saying that was wrong.
Gray pitched 6/21 vs the Reds.
Gray then pitched on Friday dominating the Guardians as they went to a six man rotation.
Not saying that was wrong either but he did miss pitching in the Cubs series.
Now....I see he’s “listed” to start on turn Wednesday at Pittsburgh.
Maybe that will change but if it doesn’t it means our best starter didn’t pitch AT ALL vs. the Cubs?
Huh???????

1. We have games with cubs later in the year too
2. Hes old, they pushed him back a day from facing cubs sp that he didnt have to pitch in sweltering heat.
3. Im not really worried about aligning rotation to opponents this early in season. Apl wins are wins and cubs could collapse and we be staring down milwaukee at yeats end. Or wild card could ve what we are close to. Right now wins are wins and i dont think we need to tailor to opponent.

Very good points well taken!
I have been critical of Oli before but not trying to pile on him.
Possible that Gray doesn’t start Wednesday and gets some extra rest again and does open the Cubs series Friday?
If not, like you said a win is a win, and he was brilliant Friday with some extra rest!

All wins are not the same. Wins against the team your chasing in the division are obviously more important. The fact that Marmol didn't pitch Gray against the Cubs and his atrocious lineups for the Sat. and Sun. games after winning the first 2 are fireable offenses! The guy is clueless!

Sonny isn't the same every day. He gets overheated and overworked on estraordinarily hot humid days and becomes less effective as the ace starter that we need. Frankly, I'm glad he didn't pitch in the sweltering heat of St Louis vs Imanaga. We were shut out that day and most likely would have lost even if Sonny were pitching. I want Sonny pitching every time he is able, but, most importantly, I want him to be the most effective he can be. I trust the brain trust to figure out when that is. The game he pitched in Cleveland set us up to do something we haven't done in the history of the two team match up; sweep Cleveland in Cleveland. He dominated the Guardians and gave us a serious leg up on the series.

It's not a fireable offense to do what's best for both the pitcher and the team when it comes to which days he pitches. That's just ludicrous.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 21:29 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:40 pm Ok:
Gray pitched 6/12 @ Milwaukee.
They basically skipped over his next start giving him extra rest. Not saying that was wrong.
Gray pitched 6/21 vs the Reds.
Gray then pitched on Friday dominating the Guardians as they went to a six man rotation.
Not saying that was wrong either but he did miss pitching in the Cubs series.
Now....I see he’s “listed” to start on turn Wednesday at Pittsburgh.
Maybe that will change but if it doesn’t it means our best starter didn’t pitch AT ALL vs. the Cubs?
Huh???????

Long season. Gotta be smart. In October he might have pushed it and started without feeling good. No reason to take a chance in June.

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 19:31 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 19:05 pm

Wattage wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:48 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:40 pm Ok:
Gray pitched 6/12 @ Milwaukee.
They basically skipped over his next start giving him extra rest. Not saying that was wrong.
Gray pitched 6/21 vs the Reds.
Gray then pitched on Friday dominating the Guardians as they went to a six man rotation.
Not saying that was wrong either but he did miss pitching in the Cubs series.
Now....I see he’s “listed” to start on turn Wednesday at Pittsburgh.
Maybe that will change but if it doesn’t it means our best starter didn’t pitch AT ALL vs. the Cubs?
Huh???????

1. We have games with cubs later in the year too
2. Hes old, they pushed him back a day from facing cubs sp that he didnt have to pitch in sweltering heat.
3. Im not really worried about aligning rotation to opponents this early in season. Apl wins are wins and cubs could collapse and we be staring down milwaukee at yeats end. Or wild card could ve what we are close to. Right now wins are wins and i dont think we need to tailor to opponent.

Very good points well taken!
I have been critical of Oli before but not trying to pile on him.
Possible that Gray doesn’t start Wednesday and gets some extra rest again and does open the Cubs series Friday?
If not, like you said a win is a win, and he was brilliant Friday with some extra rest!

All wins are not the same. Wins against the team your chasing in the division are obviously more important. The fact that Marmol didn't pitch Gray against the Cubs and his atrocious lineups for the Sat. and Sun. games after winning the first 2 are fireable offenses! The guy is clueless!

OldRed wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 09:52 am

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 19:31 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 19:05 pm

Wattage wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:48 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:40 pm Ok:
Gray pitched 6/12 @ Milwaukee.
They basically skipped over his next start giving him extra rest. Not saying that was wrong.
Gray pitched 6/21 vs the Reds.
Gray then pitched on Friday dominating the Guardians as they went to a six man rotation.
Not saying that was wrong either but he did miss pitching in the Cubs series.
Now....I see he’s “listed” to start on turn Wednesday at Pittsburgh.
Maybe that will change but if it doesn’t it means our best starter didn’t pitch AT ALL vs. the Cubs?
Huh???????

1. We have games with cubs later in the year too
2. Hes old, they pushed him back a day from facing cubs sp that he didnt have to pitch in sweltering heat.
3. Im not really worried about aligning rotation to opponents this early in season. Apl wins are wins and cubs could collapse and we be staring down milwaukee at yeats end. Or wild card could ve what we are close to. Right now wins are wins and i dont think we need to tailor to opponent.

Very good points well taken!
I have been critical of Oli before but not trying to pile on him.
Possible that Gray doesn’t start Wednesday and gets some extra rest again and does open the Cubs series Friday?
If not, like you said a win is a win, and he was brilliant Friday with some extra rest!

All wins are not the same. Wins against the team your chasing in the division are obviously more important. The fact that Marmol didn't pitch Gray against the Cubs and his atrocious lineups for the Sat. and Sun. games after winning the first 2 are fireable offenses! The guy is clueless!

I have thought a win is a win. And if small aging pitcher needs an extra day off now and then and pitches a one hitter, I believe it is good move.

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 23:25 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 20:53 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 19:31 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 19:05 pm

Wattage wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:48 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 18:40 pm Ok:
Gray pitched 6/12 @ Milwaukee.
They basically skipped over his next start giving him extra rest. Not saying that was wrong.
Gray pitched 6/21 vs the Reds.
Gray then pitched on Friday dominating the Guardians as they went to a six man rotation.
Not saying that was wrong either but he did miss pitching in the Cubs series.
Now....I see he’s “listed” to start on turn Wednesday at Pittsburgh.
Maybe that will change but if it doesn’t it means our best starter didn’t pitch AT ALL vs. the Cubs?
Huh???????

1. We have games with cubs later in the year too
2. Hes old, they pushed him back a day from facing cubs sp that he didnt have to pitch in sweltering heat.
3. Im not really worried about aligning rotation to opponents this early in season. Apl wins are wins and cubs could collapse and we be staring down milwaukee at yeats end. Or wild card could ve what we are close to. Right now wins are wins and i dont think we need to tailor to opponent.

Very good points well taken!
I have been critical of Oli before but not trying to pile on him.
Possible that Gray doesn’t start Wednesday and gets some extra rest again and does open the Cubs series Friday?
If not, like you said a win is a win, and he was brilliant Friday with some extra rest!

All wins are not the same. Wins against the team your chasing in the division are obviously more important. The fact that Marmol didn't pitch Gray against the Cubs and his atrocious lineups for the Sat. and Sun. games after winning the first 2 are fireable offenses! The guy is clueless!

Sonny isn't the same every day. He gets overheated and overworked on estraordinarily hot humid days and becomes less effective as the ace starter that we need. Frankly, I'm glad he didn't pitch in the sweltering heat of St Louis vs Imanaga. We were shut out that day and most likely would have lost even if Sonny were pitching. I want Sonny pitching every time he is able, but, most importantly, I want him to be the most effective he can be. I trust the brain trust to figure out when that is. The game he pitched in Cleveland set us up to do something we haven't done in the history of the two team match up; sweep Cleveland in Cleveland. He dominated the Guardians and gave us a serious leg up on the series.

It's not a fireable offense to do what's best for both the pitcher and the team when it comes to which days he pitches. That's just ludicrous.

The only thing ludicrous is the Cardinals trying to pass off Gray as an Ace......
well, besides Marmol being a MLB manager!