STLtoday.com

They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

OldRed wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:11 pm They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

Yes they swept the cardinals in a humiliating fashion oh wait they only split it

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:14 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:11 pm They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

Yes they swept the cardinals in a humiliating fashion oh wait they only split it

But which team would you put your money on during a seven-game series?

The Nard wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:18 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:14 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:11 pm They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

Yes they swept the cardinals in a humiliating fashion oh wait they only split it

But which team would you put your money on during a seven-game series?

Cubs but it’s just funny that the cards won two and posters were ready to declare the cardinals the division winners then they lose two and some of the same ones now say cards suck and cubs are awesome and it was a split series lol

OldRed wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:11 pm They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

Yes, when the Cardinals lose two of their regulars, including arguably their best hitter, and don't face our best SP it is clear that the Cubs have a better lineup and better pitching.

Cubs have won 2 series from winning teams in their last 10 series and both of those were the Reds. They've lost 6 and split 2.

They have a much better better line up, but they definitely don't have a much better pitching staff.

OldRed wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:11 pm They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

How sad.

Cranny wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:37 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:11 pm They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

How sad.

But not inaccurate.

OldRed wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:11 pm They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

They do have a better lineup, and more power, especially. They have two very good starters, both LH - Imanaga and Boyd. Unfortunately the Cardinals had to face both in this series. Their other starters are no better than the Cardinals' bottom 3.

Their best relievers are looking decent right now, but I don't consider them to be superior to the Cardinals' Helsley, Maton, Romero, Leahy, and O'Riley.

The Nard wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:18 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:14 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:11 pm They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

Yes they swept the cardinals in a humiliating fashion oh wait they only split it

But which team would you put your money on during a seven-game series?

The team I root for. The Cards. What a maroon

12xu wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 18:31 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:11 pm They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

They do have a better lineup, and more power, especially. They have two very good starters, both LH - Imanaga and Boyd. Unfortunately the Cardinals had to face both in this series. Their other starters are no better than the Cardinals' bottom 3.

Their best relievers are looking decent right now, but I don't consider them to be superior to the Cardinals' Helsley, Maton, Romero, Leahy, and O'Riley.

Cubs are where they are now basically without their top 3 in the rotation for most of the year from last year (Steel, Shota, and Assad). Getting Shota back is big.

And if you think Helsley is better than Palencia, I don't know what to tell you. Helsley has 5 blown saves to 1 for Palencia. Whip- Palencia is even 1.00 while Helsley is 1.46. Batters are hitting .184 vs Palencia while hitting .266 vs Helsley. Yeah, Helsley has had more opportunity for saves, but mainly because the Cubs let Hodge and Pressley close early and they also have a lot of blowout wins (cubs +100 in runs, vs the Cards +30) so less opportunities.
Palencia has been dayam good.

I do agree that Maton and Romero have been good, but so has Hodge, Pomerantz, and Theilbar. I have no explanation for how Pomerantz has a .88 whip and a zero ERA or Theilbar's .94 whip

Can we not just let the schedule play out a lot more before making grand pronouncements pro or con?

illinik wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 18:51 pm

12xu wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 18:31 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:11 pm They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

They do have a better lineup, and more power, especially. They have two very good starters, both LH - Imanaga and Boyd. Unfortunately the Cardinals had to face both in this series. Their other starters are no better than the Cardinals' bottom 3.

Their best relievers are looking decent right now, but I don't consider them to be superior to the Cardinals' Helsley, Maton, Romero, Leahy, and O'Riley.

Cubs are where they are now basically without their top 3 in the rotation for most of the year from last year (Steel, Shota, and Assad). Getting Shota back is big.

And if you think Helsley is better than Palencia, I don't know what to tell you. Helsley has 5 blown saves to 1 for Palencia. Whip- Palencia is even 1.00 while Helsley is 1.46. Batters are hitting .184 vs Palencia while hitting .266 vs Helsley. Yeah, Helsley has had more opportunity for saves, but mainly because the Cubs let Hodge and Pressley close early and they also have a lot of blowout wins (cubs +100 in runs, vs the Cards +30) so less opportunities.
Palencia has been dayam good.

I do agree that Maton and Romero have been good, but so has Hodge, Pomerantz, and Theilbar. I have no explanation for how Pomerantz has a .88 whip and a zero ERA or Theilbar's .94 whip

Yes Imanaga returning is huge for the cubs, Steele is done for the year.

I did not state that Helsley is better than Palencia, Mr. cubby fan. All I posted is that the top 5 relievers from either team are fairly equal as a whole. You may disagree, I couldn't care less. However, if you know anything about bullpens, you realize that relievers can be rather inconsistent. You may be unaware that Helsley was unbelievably good last season, and he may regain that performance at some point this year. Your man Palencia was in AAA for most of '24, and when he was with Chicago, he was mostly ineffective.

Pomerantz and Theilbar will come back down to earth, you can be bet on it.

As of June 23rd, the Cubs have the 9th best bullpen ERA at 3.53. And they improved it in this series. The Cards we're 16th at 3.94. So yeah, the Cubs have had the better bullpen and it passes the eye test also. Other than Shota and Boyd, I do think the Cards have the better starting staff due to injury. I would be shocked if the Cubs didn't add a top of the rotation pitcher at the deadline. They have the assets to get that done.

Hitting-wise, the Cubs had one of the best offenses in the first quarter of the season and we're averaging a ridiculous 6 runs per game. That wasn't sustainable obviously. But overall, they are top 5 in most metrics and the Cards are mostly top 10 except in two very important stats... Slug and OPS.

So it's not a credible argument to say the Cards are a better overall team - at this point in the season. It is a long season however.

12xu wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 19:09 pm

illinik wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 18:51 pm

12xu wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 18:31 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:11 pm They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

They do have a better lineup, and more power, especially. They have two very good starters, both LH - Imanaga and Boyd. Unfortunately the Cardinals had to face both in this series. Their other starters are no better than the Cardinals' bottom 3.

Their best relievers are looking decent right now, but I don't consider them to be superior to the Cardinals' Helsley, Maton, Romero, Leahy, and O'Riley.

Cubs are where they are now basically without their top 3 in the rotation for most of the year from last year (Steel, Shota, and Assad). Getting Shota back is big.

And if you think Helsley is better than Palencia, I don't know what to tell you. Helsley has 5 blown saves to 1 for Palencia. Whip- Palencia is even 1.00 while Helsley is 1.46. Batters are hitting .184 vs Palencia while hitting .266 vs Helsley. Yeah, Helsley has had more opportunity for saves, but mainly because the Cubs let Hodge and Pressley close early and they also have a lot of blowout wins (cubs +100 in runs, vs the Cards +30) so less opportunities.
Palencia has been dayam good.

I do agree that Maton and Romero have been good, but so has Hodge, Pomerantz, and Theilbar. I have no explanation for how Pomerantz has a .88 whip and a zero ERA or Theilbar's .94 whip

Yes Imanaga returning is huge for the cubs, Steele is done for the year.

I did not state that Helsley is better than Palencia, Mr. cubby fan. All I posted is that the top 5 relievers from either team are fairly equal as a whole. You may disagree, I couldn't care less. However, if you know anything about bullpens, you realize that relievers can be rather inconsistent. You may be unaware that Helsley was unbelievably good last season, and he may regain that performance at some point this year. Your man Palencia was in AAA for most of '24, and when he was with Chicago, he was mostly ineffective.

Pomerantz and Theilbar will come back down to earth, you can be bet on it.

Oh, I am smart enough to know Pomerantz and Theilbar may return to earth, but I also know Maton and Romero could do the same thing. I don't want Maton to do that though as I know the kid and have watched him and his brother for years. Hell, I played ball against both their dad and uncle. Their uncle almost represented the US at the Olympics in the Decathlon. Great athlete.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 18:40 pm

The Nard wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:18 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:14 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑26 Jun 2025 17:11 pm They have a much better lineup with players who produce. And they have a much better pitching staff. Cardinals are playing second fiddle.

Yes they swept the cardinals in a humiliating fashion oh wait they only split it

But which team would you put your money on during a seven-game series?

The team I root for. The Cards. What a maroon

Never put your money on the team you root for. That’s terrible emotional risk management.