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JDW wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 07:27 am Not sure of the date, but just a list I copied down from the BTV site a few years ago.

Bader +20.7M
Carlson +67.3
DeJong +31.5
Edman +21.1
Flaherty +141.2
Fowler -19.8
Gallegos +18.2
Carpenter -15.3
Gorman +35.1
Herrera +20.6
Hudson +23.6
Libs +29.8
Miller 0
Thompson +13.7
Thomas +6.0
C-Mart +1.3
Knizner +6.3

Other players:

Jose Ramirez +50.1 both 2B and 3B
Lindor +43.0
Clevinger +38.4

JD Martinez +7.9

Don't know if the Indians at the time would have made the mistake of trading away J. Ramirez, but that was the 3B bandwagon I was on instead of Arenado.
Flaherty had an even higher BTV at one time, but this shows the ridiculousness of how high his est. value was, but even then when I posted it as I often did, most everybody inferred a "no way" you trade him. Similar to Carlson, who also peaked with higher values than this one. Also similar to C-Mart when he had a much higher est. BTV. The trick is seeing into the future, lol.
Then there was Hudson, who some on here could see was over valued with BTV. Kudos to RBI, OF and mattmitch thinking out loud in real time on here that Hudson was fools gold. Why didn't the Cards FO capitalize on Hudson's potential higher value in real time? Couldn't they see it in real time?
Imagine how much prospect value you might have gotten back from Carlson and Flaherty traded away closer to their peaks.

Red7 wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 08:27 am The Dodgers need to trade Ohtani immediately! His trade value will never be higher!

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 08:51 am Imagine what Mo could've got for a package of:

Carlson +67.3
+
Flaherty +141.2

Red7 wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 08:27 am The Dodgers need to trade Ohtani immediately! His trade value will never be higher!

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 08:51 am Imagine what Mo could've got for a package of:

Carlson +67.3
+
Flaherty +141.2

Red7 wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 09:37 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 08:51 am Imagine what Mo could've got for a package of:

Carlson +67.3
+
Flaherty +141.2

If they were good enough to have such imagined trade value (the only thing more farcial than WAR is BTV), why would you trade them?

Honky Tonk Man wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 09:26 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 08:51 am Imagine what Mo could've got for a package of:

Carlson +67.3
+
Flaherty +141.2

Mo really knows how to manage a roster

Red7 wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 09:37 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 08:51 am Imagine what Mo could've got for a package of:

Carlson +67.3
+
Flaherty +141.2

If they were good enough to have such imagined trade value (the only thing more farcial than WAR is BTV), why would you trade them?

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 08:18 am

JDW wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 07:27 am Not sure of the date, but just a list I copied down from the BTV site a few years ago.

Bader +20.7M
Carlson +67.3
DeJong +31.5
Edman +21.1
Flaherty +141.2
Fowler -19.8
Gallegos +18.2
Carpenter -15.3
Gorman +35.1
Herrera +20.6
Hudson +23.6
Libs +29.8
Miller 0
Thompson +13.7
Thomas +6.0
C-Mart +1.3
Knizner +6.3

Other players:

Jose Ramirez +50.1 both 2B and 3B
Lindor +43.0
Clevinger +38.4

JD Martinez +7.9

Don't know if the Indians at the time would have made the mistake of trading away J. Ramirez, but that was the 3B bandwagon I was on instead of Arenado.
Flaherty had an even higher BTV at one time, but this shows the ridiculousness of how high his est. value was, but even then when I posted it as I often did, most everybody inferred a "no way" you trade him. Similar to Carlson, who also peaked with higher values than this one. Also similar to C-Mart when he had a much higher est. BTV. The trick is seeing into the future, lol.
Then there was Hudson, who some on here could see was over valued with BTV. Kudos to RBI, OF and mattmitch thinking out loud in real time on here that Hudson was fools gold. Why didn't the Cards FO capitalize on Hudson's potential higher value in real time? Couldn't they see it in real time?
Imagine how much prospect value you might have gotten back from Carlson and Flaherty traded away closer to their peaks.

Nootbaar was at 47 two months ago. He's sitting at 30.1 right now. We are watching his value be "Dylan Carlson-ed" 30.1 is still valuable.

JDW wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 09:46 am

Red7 wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 09:37 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 08:51 am Imagine what Mo could've got for a package of:

Carlson +67.3
+
Flaherty +141.2

If they were good enough to have such imagined trade value (the only thing more farcial than WAR is BTV), why would you trade them?

You'd hope the Cards could evaluate their own personnel better than the competition.
My read with Carlson was that he lacked motivation, and also being a coaches son was probably mostly tapped out on his potential.
Flaherty's was so crazy high, you at least see what the real value other teams might offer. He had a great half a season. The team might have an inkling he wasn't near as good as the BTV, which is only a guide. Investigate his real value.
Hudson should have been a no brainer with his other metrics, but those are probably "farcial" to you.
Funny how accumulated team WAR correlates to W-L so well. Just random good luck year after year I guess, lol.
If the Cards couldn't see the red flags with C-Mart in real time when his value was very good, shame on them.

JDW wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 09:46 am

Red7 wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 09:37 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 08:51 am Imagine what Mo could've got for a package of:

Carlson +67.3
+
Flaherty +141.2

If they were good enough to have such imagined trade value (the only thing more farcial than WAR is BTV), why would you trade them?

You'd hope the Cards could evaluate their own personnel better than the competition.
My read with Carlson was that he lacked motivation, and also being a coaches son was probably mostly tapped out on his potential.
Flaherty's was so crazy high, you at least see what the real value other teams might offer. He had a great half a season. The team might have an inkling he wasn't near as good as the BTV, which is only a guide. Investigate his real value.
Hudson should have been a no brainer with his other metrics, but those are probably "farcial" to you.
Funny how accumulated team WAR correlates to W-L so well. Just random good luck year after year I guess, lol.
If the Cards couldn't see the red flags with C-Mart in real time when his value was very good, shame on them.

Red7 wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 10:28 am

JDW wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 09:46 am

Red7 wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 09:37 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jun 2025 08:51 am Imagine what Mo could've got for a package of:

Carlson +67.3
+
Flaherty +141.2

If they were good enough to have such imagined trade value (the only thing more farcial than WAR is BTV), why would you trade them?

You'd hope the Cards could evaluate their own personnel better than the competition.
My read with Carlson was that he lacked motivation, and also being a coaches son was probably mostly tapped out on his potential.
Flaherty's was so crazy high, you at least see what the real value other teams might offer. He had a great half a season. The team might have an inkling he wasn't near as good as the BTV, which is only a guide. Investigate his real value.
Hudson should have been a no brainer with his other metrics, but those are probably "farcial" to you.
Funny how accumulated team WAR correlates to W-L so well. Just random good luck year after year I guess, lol.
If the Cards couldn't see the red flags with C-Mart in real time when his value was very good, shame on them.

I love how posters on here can see red flags, but don’t think other teams see them as well. The rankings, be it organizational prospects or BTV, are not created by the teams, but by outside sources, so it’s not a matter of how the Cardinals value them, but independent sources.