Separation season.

[Melville]

Mid-June to mid-July is typically when truths are revealed about MLB teams.
Teams who started slowly but should be better, begin to correct around this time frame.
Teams who started better than they should have, begin to fade.
Bad team who started poorly will stay on that course.
Good teams who started well will likewise maintain course.
I call this portion of the MLB season "SEPARATION SEASON" (watch closely, only a matter of time before the phrase is widely used across the game).
Rosters reveal themselves for what they are.
Same is true with managers and staffs.
I believe this is exactly what we are seeing with the Cardinals - and Marmol in particular.
Can he successfully guide a team by displaying the necessary balance of judgement, strength, and finesse?
Not likely.
I have said throughout than any reset or rebuild year must begin in the manager's office.
Wrong man, wrong time, wrong team.
He is proving me right yet again.
My advice?
Keep reading.
Keep learning.

[Monsieur De Treville]

So you're saying Oli isn't a very good manager?

Well, bust my bottoms...who knew? What a unique stance! I've never read that on here before.

Next thing you're going to tell us is Mo hasn't been doing a good job lately.

Thanks for the update...

[Goldfan]

Either the manager or players or both are weak mind…..TLR teams had some stinker years but it was almost always due to injuries. When those players with TLR/Dunc were healthy they won and competed every game. These Cards team the last several years can NEVER sustain….the manager shows his lower colors and the players take turns at going awol for weeks at a time…….

[imadangman]

The matchups here with Milwaukee and Chicago come during this stretch which adds validity to your label. These are big matchups, division structuring matchups and I thought we had a shot until we came in soiling the bowl.

[Melville]

So you're saying Oli isn't a very good manager?

Well, bust my bottoms...who knew? What a unique stance! I've never read that on here before.

Next thing you're going to tell us is Mo hasn't been doing a good job lately.

Thanks for the update...

Not saying that at all.
I am saying that there is a shelf life after which inevitable facts emerge.
Only a matter of time until mold appears on the cheese when exposed to room temperature.
The Marmot has never been up to this job - and the last 2 months could only hide that so long.

[Melville]

The matchups here with Milwaukee and Chicago come during this stretch which adds validity to your label. These are big matchups, division structuring matchups and I thought we had a shot until we came in soiling the bowl.

5 losses in a row.
The players were clearly up for the Dodgers - but tonight was ugly, lazy, unfocused baseball clearly displayed by many players and this has the makings for the 4th bad series in the past 5.
You make a great point about this stretch.
Can The Marmot get the sharp, focused play out of his players when it is needed?
Odds are not good.

[Shady]

The matchups here with Milwaukee and Chicago come during this stretch which adds validity to your label. These are big matchups, division structuring matchups and I thought we had a shot until we came in soiling the bowl.

5 losses in a row.
The players were clearly up for the Dodgers - but tonight was ugly, lazy, unfocused baseball clearly displayed by many players and this has the makings for the 4th bad series in the past 5.
You make a great point about this stretch.
Can The Marmot get the sharp, focused play out of his players when it is needed?
Odds are not good.

Melville, at what point would you trade Helsley? ex. 7 games out at the deadline, 10 games out.

[Ace Hollister]

Imo it is the offer from other teams that makes my decision, not so much when.

[Melville]

The matchups here with Milwaukee and Chicago come during this stretch which adds validity to your label. These are big matchups, division structuring matchups and I thought we had a shot until we came in soiling the bowl.

5 losses in a row.
The players were clearly up for the Dodgers - but tonight was ugly, lazy, unfocused baseball clearly displayed by many players and this has the makings for the 4th bad series in the past 5.
You make a great point about this stretch.
Can The Marmot get the sharp, focused play out of his players when it is needed?
Odds are not good.

Melville, at what point would you trade Helsley? ex. 7 games out at the deadline, 10 games out.

Before the season began, I said Super Slo Mo would be watching the Central Division standings come July 1 - and NOT the W/C slots.
I said if the team was in 2nd place in July and within 5 or 6 games of the lead, he would likely hang onto Helsley and Fedde.
And I said if the team was farther behind in terms of games or teams, he would go into sell mode - to include not just Helsley, Fedde, and N/A but also players such as Maton and King.
I believe that is still the case.

[Shady]

Imo it is the offer from other teams that makes my decision, not so much when.

If the Cardinals are only three games out at the dealine. Do you still trade Helsley if the return is very attractive?

[Ace Hollister]

yes. if the offer is what i want.

[Bob Kunush]

Either the manager or players or both are weak mind…..TLR teams had some stinker years but it was almost always due to injuries. When those players with TLR/Dunc were healthy they won and competed every game. These Cards team the last several years can NEVER sustain….the manager shows his lower colors and the players take turns at going awol for weeks at a time…….

When LaRussa had good players and they played well, he won. When he didn't have good players or they didn't perform, he didn't. Same as every manager. Many people on this very forum tried to run him off from 1997 to 2003, and again from 2007 to 2010. Fans are fickle. Now that he is gone, LaRussa's Cards Talk popularity has never been higher. Marmol has never had a team anywhere as good as many of LaRussa's were, and he still has a winning record.

Managers are the easiest target for the angry fan.

[Detroit Louie]

I want the Cards to get one or two high prospects. That will take one or two significant packages, including Helsley, Fedde and likely one or two other decent major league ready players. Noot? Gorman? We are not going to get as far as the NLCS this year. Now the problem is that to have those trade chips, and not include our own good prospects, we need good performances from those players. That’s not been happening lately. And if they do all get back to their highs, the team could get back in contention. That’s good and fun to watch, but would not get the Cardinals in position to start making a more viable run for the title beginning in 2026 or 2027 at the latest.

[Monsieur De Treville]

So you're saying Oli isn't a very good manager?

Well, bust my bottoms...who knew? What a unique stance! I've never read that on here before.

Next thing you're going to tell us is Mo hasn't been doing a good job lately.

Thanks for the update...

Not saying that at all.
I am saying that there is a shelf life after which inevitable facts emerge.
Only a matter of time until mold appears on the cheese when exposed to room temperature.
The Marmot has never been up to this job - and the last 2 months could only hide that so long.

My point is...most Cardinal fans have known this for a few years. Oli has always been overmatched.

[Melville]

I want the Cards to get one or two high prospects. That will take one or two significant packages, including Helsley, Fedde and likely one or two other decent major league ready players. Noot? Gorman? We are not going to get as far as the NLCS this year. Now the problem is that to have those trade chips, and not include our own good prospects, we need good performances from those players. That’s not been happening lately. And if they do all get back to their highs, the team could get back in contention. That’s good and fun to watch, but would not get the Cardinals in position to start making a more viable run for the title beginning in 2026 or 2027 at the latest.

Zero question Moot needs to be traded - as I was first and best to understand and advise 4 years ago.
If the Cardinals do see themselves falling out of the central division race during SEPARATION SEASON, finally trading Moot would be a positive consequence.
Certainly Super Slo Mo will attempt to move Fedde, Helsley, Matz, Maton, Mikolas, N/A, Romero, and perhaps others if the Cardinals fall too far off the pace.
But, above all things, the Marmol era must come to an end.

[bretto12]

Everyone always wants to blame the manager when it is the players who hit, pitch and play defense. All the manager can do is put them on the field. You can blame bad drafting positions, or failure to develop players in the minors, but whatever the reason, the Cards are bad because the players are bad.