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So for those smarter than myself, could you please attempt to explain the official scoring on a couple of plays.

1. Helsley is charged with a WP and the runner scores from third on a strikeout. Why wouldn't that be an unearned run? Is not a WP or PB scored the same as an error?

2. Burly mashes an infield single off the pitcher. The pitcher makes a poor throw to first allowing a base runner to score from second. Why is Burly awarded an RBI on this play? Should it have not been scored a hit and a throwing error allowing the runner to score from second? I'd imagine it's somewhat rare for a hitter to drive in a runner from second on an infield single with no error charged?

I'm sure there are good reasons for these decisions, but I can't figure them out. Anyone?

Arenado got a double because it was a ground rule double they said on the radio. Normally just a single so it must have hopped over the wall.

Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 16:52 pm So for those smarter than myself, could you please attempt to explain the official scoring on a couple of plays.

1. Helsley is charged with a WP and the runner scores from third on a strikeout. Why wouldn't that be an unearned run? Is not a WP or PB scored the same as an error?

2. Burly mashes an infield single off the pitcher. The pitcher makes a poor throw to first allowing a base runner to score from second. Why is Burly awarded an RBI on this play? Should it have not been scored a hit and a throwing error allowing the runner to score from second? I'd imagine it's somewhat rare for a hitter to drive in a runner from second on an infield single with no error charged?

I'm sure there are good reasons for these decisions, but I can't figure them out. Anyone?

WP are earned runs. PB are unearned runs.
There was no error on the play because the ball deflected off the Pitcher's body and he was likely to beat it out, which he did. Would have been a great play to get him.

Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 16:52 pm So for those smarter than myself, could you please attempt to explain the official scoring on a couple of plays.

1. Helsley is charged with a WP and the runner scores from third on a strikeout. Why wouldn't that be an unearned run? Is not a WP or PB scored the same as an error?

2. Burly mashes an infield single off the pitcher. The pitcher makes a poor throw to first allowing a base runner to score from second. Why is Burly awarded an RBI on this play? Should it have not been scored a hit and a throwing error allowing the runner to score from second? I'd imagine it's somewhat rare for a hitter to drive in a runner from second on an infield single with no error charged?

I'm sure there are good reasons for these decisions, but I can't figure them out. Anyone?

Passed ball is treated like an error, while a WP is on the pitcher and not counted as an error. But if a pitcher makes 18 errors and all of those runs come around to score, they’d still be 0 ER.

thetank2 wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 16:57 pm Arenado got a double because it was a ground rule double they said on the radio. Normally just a single so it must have hopped over the wall.

It showed a single base on game day not a double.

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 16:59 pm

Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 16:52 pm So for those smarter than myself, could you please attempt to explain the official scoring on a couple of plays.

1. Helsley is charged with a WP and the runner scores from third on a strikeout. Why wouldn't that be an unearned run? Is not a WP or PB scored the same as an error?

2. Burly mashes an infield single off the pitcher. The pitcher makes a poor throw to first allowing a base runner to score from second. Why is Burly awarded an RBI on this play? Should it have not been scored a hit and a throwing error allowing the runner to score from second? I'd imagine it's somewhat rare for a hitter to drive in a runner from second on an infield single with no error charged?

I'm sure there are good reasons for these decisions, but I can't figure them out. Anyone?

WP are earned runs. PB are unearned runs.
There was no error on the play because the ball deflected off the Pitcher's body and he was likely to beat it out, which he did. Would have been a great play to get him.

1. Makes no sense...you earn a run on a WP but you don't earn one on a PB? Oh well...that's baseball. I also bet Pages blocks that ball 9 out of 10 times.

2. No...I get that part...it's obviously an infield hit. No doubt. But the throw pulled Freeman way off the bag, allowing Winn to score from second. Why wasn't it ruled a hit and a throwing error allowing Winn to score?

Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 16:52 pm So for those smarter than myself, could you please attempt to explain the official scoring on a couple of plays.

1. Helsley is charged with a WP and the runner scores from third on a strikeout. Why wouldn't that be an unearned run? Is not a WP or PB scored the same as an error?

2. Burly mashes an infield single off the pitcher. The pitcher makes a poor throw to first allowing a base runner to score from second. Why is Burly awarded an RBI on this play? Should it have not been scored a hit and a throwing error allowing the runner to score from second? I'd imagine it's somewhat rare for a hitter to drive in a runner from second on an infield single with no error charged?

I'm sure there are good reasons for these decisions, but I can't figure them out. Anyone?

The WP vs. PB question has been answered. WPs don't lead to unearned runs.

But apparently they did not charge the pitcher with an error on Burleson'(poop), so the run is not unearned and Burleson gets an RBI. That surprises me because I do not think Winn tries to score, or would have been successful if he did, without the bad throw from the pitcher. Perhaps further review will change the scoring.

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 17:00 pm

Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 16:52 pm So for those smarter than myself, could you please attempt to explain the official scoring on a couple of plays.

1. Helsley is charged with a WP and the runner scores from third on a strikeout. Why wouldn't that be an unearned run? Is not a WP or PB scored the same as an error?

2. Burly mashes an infield single off the pitcher. The pitcher makes a poor throw to first allowing a base runner to score from second. Why is Burly awarded an RBI on this play? Should it have not been scored a hit and a throwing error allowing the runner to score from second? I'd imagine it's somewhat rare for a hitter to drive in a runner from second on an infield single with no error charged?

I'm sure there are good reasons for these decisions, but I can't figure them out. Anyone?

Passed ball is treated like an error, while a WP is on the pitcher and not counted as an error. But if a pitcher makes 18 errors and all of those runs come around to score, they’d still be 0 ER.

Yeah...doesn't make sense, does it?

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 17:04 pm

thetank2 wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 16:57 pm Arenado got a double because it was a ground rule double they said on the radio. Normally just a single so it must have hopped over the wall.

It showed a single base on game day not a double.

If MLB was consistent in applying rules and principles, it should have gone down as reaching first base due to defensive indifference.
Really, zero difference between taking second base with no throw from the catcher and no infielder covering the bag - and a ball being allowed to drop into LF as a result of no defender attempting to make a play.
That ball is an out 100 times out of a hundred if a defender is standing anywhere in LF.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 17:04 pm

thetank2 wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 16:57 pm Arenado got a double because it was a ground rule double they said on the radio. Normally just a single so it must have hopped over the wall.

It showed a single base on game day not a double.

Curious scoring here. If Arenado hit a home run, he would be credited with a homer. If he had hit a ball to the gap to score the run from 3rd, he would have been credited with a single.

But his hit definitely bounced into the stands. Why we he not be credited with a double? Perhaps it will be changed.

sp25 wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 17:14 pm

Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 16:52 pm So for those smarter than myself, could you please attempt to explain the official scoring on a couple of plays.

1. Helsley is charged with a WP and the runner scores from third on a strikeout. Why wouldn't that be an unearned run? Is not a WP or PB scored the same as an error?

2. Burly mashes an infield single off the pitcher. The pitcher makes a poor throw to first allowing a base runner to score from second. Why is Burly awarded an RBI on this play? Should it have not been scored a hit and a throwing error allowing the runner to score from second? I'd imagine it's somewhat rare for a hitter to drive in a runner from second on an infield single with no error charged?

I'm sure there are good reasons for these decisions, but I can't figure them out. Anyone?

The WP vs. PB question has been answered. WPs don't lead to unearned runs.

But apparently they did not charge the pitcher with an error on Burleson'(poop), so the run is not unearned and Burleson gets an RBI. That surprises me because I do not think Winn tries to score, or would have been successful if he did, without the bad throw from the pitcher. Perhaps further review will change the scoring.

My point exactly. I simply wish to understand the process .

Melville wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 17:15 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 17:04 pm

thetank2 wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 16:57 pm Arenado got a double because it was a ground rule double they said on the radio. Normally just a single so it must have hopped over the wall.

It showed a single base on game day not a double.

If MLB was consistent in applying rules and principles, it should have gone down as reaching first base due to defensive indifference.
Really, zero difference between taking second base with no throw from the catcher and no infielder covering the bag - and a ball being allowed to drop into LF as a result of no defender attempting to make a play.
That ball is an out 100 times out of a hundred if a defender is standing anywhere in LF.

In which case it would've been a Sac Fly as it was plenty deep enough (unless Clemente is playing out in left).

Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 16:52 pm So for those smarter than myself, could you please attempt to explain the official scoring on a couple of plays.

1. Helsley is charged with a WP and the runner scores from third on a strikeout. Why wouldn't that be an unearned run? Is not a WP or PB scored the same as an error?

2. Burly mashes an infield single off the pitcher. The pitcher makes a poor throw to first allowing a base runner to score from second. Why is Burly awarded an RBI on this play? Should it have not been scored a hit and a throwing error allowing the runner to score from second? I'd imagine it's somewhat rare for a hitter to drive in a runner from second on an infield single with no error charged?

I'm sure there are good reasons for these decisions, but I can't figure them out. Anyone?

1) A WP and a PB are scored differently in this situation. A WP is considered the pitchers fault so the run is considered an earned run. If the pitch had been ruled a PB, that would have been considered the catcher’s fault and the run would have been ruled an unearned run. Strictly how the official scorer sees the event.


2) Burly was credited with an infield hit AND an RBI because the play was viewed as a continuous play as viewed by the official scorer. The official scorer could have ruled that the throw caused a separate event which allowed Winn to score but in this case the official scorer viewed the play as a continuous play and Winn’s hustle allowed him to score over a bad throw from the pitcher. It’s truly just the judgment of the official scorer working the game. It could have been viewed differently and if you have paid attention you have seen similar plays viewed differently. It’s just how the official scorer decides to view the plays in question.

sp25 wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 17:16 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 17:04 pm

thetank2 wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 16:57 pm Arenado got a double because it was a ground rule double they said on the radio. Normally just a single so it must have hopped over the wall.

It showed a single base on game day not a double.

Curious scoring here. If Arenado hit a home run, he would be credited with a homer. If he had hit a ball to the gap to score the run from 3rd, he would have been credited with a single.

But his hit definitely bounced into the stands. Why we he not be credited with a double? Perhaps it will be changed.

Maybe he never touched second? On the homer scenario, guys always round the bases and touch home plate...

sp25 wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 17:16 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 17:04 pm

thetank2 wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 16:57 pm Arenado got a double because it was a ground rule double they said on the radio. Normally just a single so it must have hopped over the wall.

It showed a single base on game day not a double.

Curious scoring here. If Arenado hit a home run, he would be credited with a homer. If he had hit a ball to the gap to score the run from 3rd, he would have been credited with a single.

But his hit definitely bounced into the stands. Why we he not be credited with a double? Perhaps it will be changed.

He never touched second.
The game ended by him reaching 1B and the runner touching home.
Hard to award a base once the game is over.

sp25 wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 17:16 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 17:04 pm

thetank2 wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 16:57 pm Arenado got a double because it was a ground rule double they said on the radio. Normally just a single so it must have hopped over the wall.

It showed a single base on game day not a double.

Curious scoring here. If Arenado hit a home run, he would be credited with a homer. If he had hit a ball to the gap to score the run from 3rd, he would have been credited with a single.

But his hit definitely bounced into the stands. Why we he not be credited with a double? Perhaps it will be changed.

Arenado didnt touch 2nd base. He was mobbed going around first and didn't make it to 2nd. If he had made it to 2nd it wouldn't have been a double

It would be the same if he hit a home run and didn't step on home plate. It wouldn't have counted as a homer.