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“Runway”
Posted: 28 May 2025 10:29 am
by JohnnyMO
What this season was supposed to be about. It’s starting to pay off for Walker. Gorman deserves the same.
I’m glad the team is winning and they more legit all the time, but that doesn’t mean the plan to give young guys runway and trade the vets by the deadline should change.
Re: “Runway”
Posted: 28 May 2025 10:35 am
by Futuregm2
JohnnyMO wrote: ↑28 May 2025 10:29 am
What this season was supposed to be about. It’s starting to pay off for Walker. Gorman deserves the same.
I’m glad the team is winning and they more legit all the time, but that doesn’t mean the plan to give young guys runway and trade the vets by the deadline should change.
Problem for Gorman is that the room for both of them to be given the runway hasn’t been there with the way that Donovan, Scott, and Herrera have seized their every day opportunities hitting wise and Herrera hasn’t done the same defensive at catcher.
C- Pages/Pozo
1B- Contreras
2B- Donovan
3B- Arenado
SS- Winn
LF- Nootbaar
CF- Scott
RF- Walker
DH- Herrera
Now if Arenado were to be traded, that opens things up. But that is highly doubtful IMO. Nado hasn’t hit well enough to be sought after by teams, he’s proven last year wasn’t a fluke. And on top of that he has the NTC so he has to agree to be traded. And with the way the team chemistry is right now, I’m not sure they will want to rock the boat too much.
I personally think Gorman could be dealt at the deadline.
Re: “Runway”
Posted: 28 May 2025 10:49 am
by Eyelids64
Nado is critical at 3B for playoff run. Gorman is a bust. Walker can play. Burly can play. Noot is iffy. Catcher is severely suspect. Starters are plenty good enough and so is middle relief. Closure is scary. Poor bench. Donovan is becoming the key to it all. Contreras, Herrera, Scott and Winn will determine how far this goes.
Re: “Runway”
Posted: 28 May 2025 10:56 am
by ecleme22
NG has started 4 of the last 6
Re: “Runway”
Posted: 28 May 2025 11:12 am
by rockondlouie
Futuregm2 wrote: ↑28 May 2025 10:35 am
JohnnyMO wrote: ↑28 May 2025 10:29 am
What this season was supposed to be about. It’s starting to pay off for Walker. Gorman deserves the same.
I’m glad the team is winning and they more legit all the time, but that doesn’t mean the plan to give young guys runway and trade the vets by the deadline should change.
Problem for Gorman is that the room for both of them to be given the runway hasn’t been there with the way that Donovan, Scott, and Herrera have seized their every day opportunities hitting wise and Herrera hasn’t done the same defensive at catcher.
C- Pages/Pozo
1B- Contreras
2B- Donovan
3B- Arenado
SS- Winn
LF- Nootbaar
CF- Scott
RF- Walker
DH- Herrera
Now if Arenado were to be traded, that opens things up. But that is highly doubtful IMO. Nado hasn’t hit well enough to be sought after by teams, he’s proven last year wasn’t a fluke. And on top of that he has the NTC so he has to agree to be traded. And with the way the team chemistry is right now, I’m not sure they will want to rock the boat too much.
I personally think Gorman could be dealt at the deadline.
^^^THIS^^^ +1
Not only has I. hererra got a stranglehold on the DH spot, Donny playing a lot more at 2nd base since J. Walker has started to heat up BUT the Cardinals also have J.J. steaming towards St. Louis.
Oh yea, J.J. plays 2nd base and 3rd base too.
Looks like Norman is trade bait unless C. Bloom wants to try and re-hab him first.........but where does he play?
Re: “Runway”
Posted: 28 May 2025 11:19 am
by imadangman
I don't see it with Gorman. He is not a full-time player at least for us. Remember when the Texas Rangers moved on from Chris Davis, they said he's probably going to breakout one of these seasons and we will live with it. That's about where we are with Gorman I think.
Re: “Runway”
Posted: 29 May 2025 10:56 am
by JohnnyMO
Eyelids64 wrote: ↑28 May 2025 10:49 am
Nado is critical at 3B for playoff run. Gorman is a bust. Walker can play. Burly can play. Noot is iffy. Catcher is severely suspect. Starters are plenty good enough and so is middle relief. Closure is scary. Poor bench. Donovan is becoming the key to it all. Contreras, Herrera, Scott and Winn will determine how far this goes.
This is my point. I’m afraid this is becoming the thinking in the front office and it’s fools gold. This pitching staff cannot make a deep playoff run. The team needs to stick to the plan and trade the vets. Nado’s defense has been great and he’s had a few clutch hits, but he is not a plus for this team moving forward. Same goes for Mikolas and Fedde.
Let Gorman and Saggesse play third. Get Mcgreevy and Graceffo in the rotation. The team will have just as good a chance making a playoff run in 2025 and will be infinitely more prepared for the offseason and 2026.
Re: “Runway”
Posted: 29 May 2025 11:01 am
by Futuregm2
JohnnyMO wrote: ↑29 May 2025 10:56 am
Eyelids64 wrote: ↑28 May 2025 10:49 am
Nado is critical at 3B for playoff run. Gorman is a bust. Walker can play. Burly can play. Noot is iffy. Catcher is severely suspect. Starters are plenty good enough and so is middle relief. Closure is scary. Poor bench. Donovan is becoming the key to it all. Contreras, Herrera, Scott and Winn will determine how far this goes.
This is my point. I’m afraid this is becoming the thinking in the front office and it’s fools gold. This pitching staff cannot make a deep playoff run. The team needs to stick to the plan and trade the vets. Nado’s defense has been great and he’s had a few clutch hits, but he is not a plus for this team moving forward. Same goes for Mikolas and Fedde.
Let Gorman and Saggesse play third. Get Mcgreevy and Graceffo in the rotation. The team will have just as good a chance making a playoff run in 2025 and will be infinitely more prepared for the offseason and 2026.
A) If the SPs keep pitching like they have, I don’t see why they can’t make a deep playoff run. Liberatore has already beaten Skenes and Wheeler. Gray is a legit top of the rotation starter that I wouldn’t have any trouble putting up against other good competitive starters. Beyond that, you never know what a guy like Fedde or Pallante could do if they got hot. Both had sub 4 ERA’s last year and Fedde is currently sub 4 again. Pallante isn’t far off. I do think they should at some point replace Mikolas with McGreevy though.
B) The Cardinals aren’t the only reason that Arenado is still here. He has to agree to a trade and there has to be someone actually interested in him that he’d agree to a trade to go to. If it were up to the Cardinals, he would have been gone in the offseason.
Re: “Runway”
Posted: 29 May 2025 11:34 am
by imetsatchelpaige
Gorman is past his Faberge egg expiration date.
Re: “Runway”
Posted: 29 May 2025 11:39 am
by Harry S Deals
So J.J. takes over at 3rd next season? Why trade Arenado now, no reason. That potential is a helluva an infield
Re: “Runway”
Posted: 29 May 2025 11:47 am
by Banner29
The thing about Gorman is that even if he does figure itout, which nothing has led us to believe he will as he has progressively gotten worse, is that he already has an pretty concerning injury resume at just 25.
At some point you just have to think about how worth it he is. He’s not showing anything close to a guy you can be patient with
Re: “Runway”
Posted: 29 May 2025 12:00 pm
by Futuregm2
Banner29 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:47 am
The thing about Gorman is that even if he does figure itout, which nothing has led us to believe he will as he has progressively gotten worse, is that he already has an pretty concerning injury resume at just 25.
At some point you just have to think about how worth it he is. He’s not showing anything close to a guy you can be patient with
The crazy part about it is Gorman is actually showing significant improvement in critical areas.
K%: 26.7% (career: 33.5%)
BB%: 12.4% (career: 10.0%)
Chase rate: 23% (career: 28.9%)
Zone Contact rate: 86.8% (career: 77.%)
Contact rate: 76% (career: 67.0%)
Swing Strike%: 10.6% (career: 16.3%)
Infield FB%: 8.8% (career: 9.9%)
But his HR/FB% is now 2.9% (career: 17.3%), while his FB% is a career high at 53%. His average EV is down a bit (87.4 mph, down from 91 mph in his nice 2023 season). His barrel% is now down to 7.8% as well (it was well over 10% the last time I checked), his career barrel% is 15.3%.
Re: “Runway”
Posted: 29 May 2025 12:01 pm
by PadsFS07
Futuregm2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:01 am
B) The Cardinals aren’t the only reason that Arenado is still here. He has to agree to a trade and there has to be someone actually interested in him that he’d agree to a trade to go to. If it were up to the Cardinals, he would have been gone in the offseason.
Along those lines too, Arenado is on pace for 3.5 WAR even with his slightly below-average hitting. We don't have any sunk contracts at this point with Mikolas and Matz turning things around, so we might as well keep him and worry about other positions.
Re: “Runway”
Posted: 29 May 2025 12:12 pm
by JohnnyMO
Futuregm2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:01 am
JohnnyMO wrote: ↑29 May 2025 10:56 am
Eyelids64 wrote: ↑28 May 2025 10:49 am
Nado is critical at 3B for playoff run. Gorman is a bust. Walker can play. Burly can play. Noot is iffy. Catcher is severely suspect. Starters are plenty good enough and so is middle relief. Closure is scary. Poor bench. Donovan is becoming the key to it all. Contreras, Herrera, Scott and Winn will determine how far this goes.
This is my point. I’m afraid this is becoming the thinking in the front office and it’s fools gold. This pitching staff cannot make a deep playoff run. The team needs to stick to the plan and trade the vets. Nado’s defense has been great and he’s had a few clutch hits, but he is not a plus for this team moving forward. Same goes for Mikolas and Fedde.
Let Gorman and Saggesse play third. Get Mcgreevy and Graceffo in the rotation. The team will have just as good a chance making a playoff run in 2025 and will be infinitely more prepared for the offseason and 2026.
A) If the SPs keep pitching like they have, I don’t see why they can’t make a deep playoff run. Liberatore has already beaten Skenes and Wheeler. Gray is a legit top of the rotation starter that I wouldn’t have any trouble putting up against other good competitive starters. Beyond that, you never know what a guy like Fedde or Pallante could do if they got hot. Both had sub 4 ERA’s last year and Fedde is currently sub 4 again. Pallante isn’t far off. I do think they should at some point replace Mikolas with McGreevy though.
B) The Cardinals aren’t the only reason that Arenado is still here. He has to agree to a trade and there has to be someone actually interested in him that he’d agree to a trade to go to. If it were up to the Cardinals, he would have been gone in the offseason.
This pitching staff isn’t going to keep pitching like they have. Mikolas, Fedde, and Pallante are all due for severe regression. I do believe Libby and Gray are a solid top two, but the guys beyond that need to be moved.
Re: “Runway”
Posted: 29 May 2025 12:19 pm
by Futuregm2
JohnnyMO wrote: ↑29 May 2025 12:12 pm
Futuregm2 wrote: ↑29 May 2025 11:01 am
JohnnyMO wrote: ↑29 May 2025 10:56 am
Eyelids64 wrote: ↑28 May 2025 10:49 am
Nado is critical at 3B for playoff run. Gorman is a bust. Walker can play. Burly can play. Noot is iffy. Catcher is severely suspect. Starters are plenty good enough and so is middle relief. Closure is scary. Poor bench. Donovan is becoming the key to it all. Contreras, Herrera, Scott and Winn will determine how far this goes.
This is my point. I’m afraid this is becoming the thinking in the front office and it’s fools gold. This pitching staff cannot make a deep playoff run. The team needs to stick to the plan and trade the vets. Nado’s defense has been great and he’s had a few clutch hits, but he is not a plus for this team moving forward. Same goes for Mikolas and Fedde.
Let Gorman and Saggesse play third. Get Mcgreevy and Graceffo in the rotation. The team will have just as good a chance making a playoff run in 2025 and will be infinitely more prepared for the offseason and 2026.
A) If the SPs keep pitching like they have, I don’t see why they can’t make a deep playoff run. Liberatore has already beaten Skenes and Wheeler. Gray is a legit top of the rotation starter that I wouldn’t have any trouble putting up against other good competitive starters. Beyond that, you never know what a guy like Fedde or Pallante could do if they got hot. Both had sub 4 ERA’s last year and Fedde is currently sub 4 again. Pallante isn’t far off. I do think they should at some point replace Mikolas with McGreevy though.
B) The Cardinals aren’t the only reason that Arenado is still here. He has to agree to a trade and there has to be someone actually interested in him that he’d agree to a trade to go to. If it were up to the Cardinals, he would have been gone in the offseason.
This pitching staff isn’t going to keep pitching like they have. Mikolas,
Fedde, and Pallante are all due for severe regression. I do believe Libby and Gray are a solid top two, but the guys beyond that need to be moved.
Why a huge regression?
Pallante
2024: 3.78 ERA 1.30 WHIP 8.2 H/9 0.6 HR/9 3.6 BB/9 7.0 K/9 1.96 K/BB
2025: 4.23 ERA 1.36 WHIP 8.9 H/9 1.3 HR/9 3.4 BB/9 6.1 K/9 1.83 K/BB
Fedde
2024 (STL): 3.70 ERA 1.20 WHIP 7.9 H/9 1.0 HR/9 2.9 BB/9 7.4 K/9 2.56 K/BB
2025: 3.90 ERA 1.29 WHIP 7.9 H/9 0.9 HR/9 3.8 BB/9 5.6 K/9 1.50 K/BB
Fedde, I get because of the walks and K’s, although he’s been much better in the month of May than he was in April. He has 22 K’s-10 BB’s in 29.2 IP this month, which is much closer to 2024 than his overall line would show and if he keeps doing that, then I don’t see why he should be due for a huge regression.
Re: “Runway”
Posted: 29 May 2025 12:53 pm
by renostl
Futuregm2 wrote: ↑28 May 2025 10:35 am
JohnnyMO wrote: ↑28 May 2025 10:29 am
What this season was supposed to be about. It’s starting to pay off for Walker. Gorman deserves the same.
I’m glad the team is winning and they more legit all the time, but that doesn’t mean the plan to give young guys runway and trade the vets by the deadline should change.
Problem for Gorman is that the room for both of them to be given the runway hasn’t been there with the way that Donovan, Scott, and Herrera have seized their every day opportunities hitting wise and Herrera hasn’t done the same defensive at catcher.
C- Pages/Pozo
1B- Contreras
2B- Donovan
3B- Arenado
SS- Winn
LF- Nootbaar
CF- Scott
RF- Walker
DH- Herrera
Now if Arenado were to be traded, that opens things up. But that is highly doubtful IMO. Nado hasn’t hit well enough to be sought after by teams, he’s proven last year wasn’t a fluke. And on top of that he has the NTC so he has to agree to be traded. And with the way the team chemistry is right now, I’m not sure they will want to rock the boat too much.
I personally think Gorman could be dealt at the deadline.
I'm not in the debate of what IH should be. I'm just pointing the situation that every time he does DH
vs C he does take a possible game of ab's away from a "runway" player. Pozo isn't a runway player and
shouldn't be a part of a 3 C roster that can reduce those opportunities, The same could be said to a lesser
extent with Burleson, IMO.
NA probably only goes IF one of the top 2 or 3 come knocking. Unlikely but fluid since injuries happen.
Cardinals are getting in a position that they won't be dealing all the players often brought up a while
back. Maybe just a couple. The easiest right now are Matz, Fedde, Gorman, Burleson.
Moving any of those doesn't represent quitting if in the playoff race.