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How do you explain this? The cardinals were ahead when he entered the game.Closer Ryan Helsley (2-0) was an awarded the win by the official scorer for pitching the ninth and not his 11th save.

Who cares...Cards got the win, and the series

According to the rule of the game, I think that's a mistake.

I agree. Matz was the pitcher of record. I know the official scorer has some discretion, but that makes no sense. The official scorer is just a member of the media picked for that game to score. Half the time they are up getting a sandwich and don’t even see the play and have to ask others in the press box what happened. Ridiculous.

I'm thinking the scorer decided no one else pitched effective enough to deserve the win. But, Helsley came awful close to not earning the save.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑24 May 2025 16:26 pm I'm thinking the scorer decided no one else pitched effective enough to deserve the win. But, Helsley came awful close to not earning the save.

The scorer does have some latitude in circumstances like this game. Since neither Leahy or Matz had a good 8th inning, it is acceptable to give Helsley the win.

Um,hello? Did you want the game? Matz got screwed by two plays that should have been made,and didn't deserve what happened.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑24 May 2025 16:26 pm I'm thinking the scorer decided no one else pitched effective enough to deserve the win. But, Helsley came awful close to not earning the save.

Well, they couldn’t give Helsley the loss. That had to go to a diamondback.

musicman wrote: ↑24 May 2025 16:45 pm Um,hello? Did you want the game? Matz got screwed by two plays that should have been made,and didn't deserve what happened.

+1

musicman wrote: ↑24 May 2025 16:45 pm Um,hello? Did you want the game? Matz got screwed by two plays that should have been made,and didn't deserve what happened.

Agreed, his defense did not help him. But if the team had not rallied in the bottom of the inning Matz would have received the loss. I guess the scorer decided he wouldn't then give Matz the win.

Baseball is a funny game.

sp25 wrote: ↑24 May 2025 16:53 pm

musicman wrote: ↑24 May 2025 16:45 pm Um,hello? Did you want the game? Matz got screwed by two plays that should have been made,and didn't deserve what happened.

Agreed, his defense did not help him. But if the team had not rallied in the bottom of the inning Matz would have received the loss. I guess the scorer decided he wouldn't then give Matz the win.

Baseball is a funny game.

Scorer didn’t want to give him a vulture win

I know the official scorer has latitude
I think he should have latitude to give errors too. On plays where a ball should have been caught even though bo one touched it

Does anyone know who is the official scorer?

Agreed - Matz pitched effectively as he was undermined by two unfortunate plays - if Matz doesn’t get out of the 8th - which was Leahy’s traffic to begin with- the Cards don’t win the game.

Error on the scorekeeper.

musicman wrote: ↑24 May 2025 16:06 pm How do you explain this? The cardinals were ahead when he entered the game.Closer Ryan Helsley (2-0) was an awarded the win by the official scorer for pitching the ninth and not his 11th save.

Technically there is a clause that allows for this.

https://www.mlb.com/glossary/standard-stats/win

"There is also a rarely used clause where an official scorer can deem a relief pitcher's appearance "brief and ineffective." (For example, if a reliever relinquished a one-run lead by allowing three runs, but was still in line for a win after his team scored four runs in the following inning -- that may qualify.) If that's the case, the scorer can award the win to a pitcher who followed that "brief and ineffective" pitcher. Which relief pitcher earns the win specifically is also up to the judgment of the official scorer."

The problem is that 95% of scorers never exercise this option when they should and still award the win to the brief but ineffevtive pitcher, so whenever a scorer randomly decides to disallow a pitcher like matz from getting the win, its completely random because most scorers never exercise that clause in that situation. Id rather that clause and the less than 5 inning starter clause get eliminated so there is just no ambiguity.