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He’s made it to double digit starts for the first time since 2022 this year.

Last 7 starts:
43.1 IP
29 H
6 BB
49 K
1.66 ERA
0.81 WHIP

He’ll turn 37 years old in the next month.

2 Cy Young’s
43.9 bWAR
88 wins
2.51 career ERA
1,728 Strikeouts
1,425 IP
5.40 K/BB ratio (best ever for a career)

Hall of Famer ala the Sandy Koufax route?

43.9 WAR

228 GS
88 - 58
2.51 ERA
2.62 FiP
0.99 WHiP

ROY
2 CY's (6 top 10 finishes)
4 time all -star

I say "Yes"

Clear HOFer, especially with the serious decline in pitcher longevity after the last 4 locks retire (Kershaw, Verlander, Scherzer, Greinke).

He and Sale are the surest locks of the next generation imo.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 May 2025 14:23 pm Hall of Famer ala the Sandy Koufax route?

43.9 WAR

228 GS
88 - 58
2.51 ERA
2.62 FiP
0.99 WHiP

ROY
2 CY's (6 top 10 finishes)
4 time all -star

I say "Yes"

Me personally, I'd rather include players that were absolutely dominant for short to moderate periods of time rather than "good" for a long period.

deGrom isn't quite on Koufax's level because the IP was much lower.

However, my personal opinion on the HOF is that the position is "pitcher" not "starter". If Billy Wagner and his historic strike out rate is in the HOF then a SP that dominated the league to historic levels, even if for a short period of time, should also be in, or at least considered.

I have less problem with deGrom being in the HOF than Baines.

rbirules wrote: ↑22 May 2025 14:29 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 May 2025 14:23 pm Hall of Famer ala the Sandy Koufax route?

43.9 WAR

228 GS
88 - 58
2.51 ERA
2.62 FiP
0.99 WHiP

ROY
2 CY's (6 top 10 finishes)
4 time all -star

I say "Yes"

Me personally, I'd rather include players that were absolutely dominant for short to moderate periods of time rather than "good" for a long period.

deGrom isn't quite on Koufax's level because the IP was much lower.

However, my personal opinion on the HOF is that the position is "pitcher" not "starter". If Billy Wagner and his historic strike out rate is in the HOF then a SP that dominated the league to historic levels, even if for a short period of time, should also be in, or at least considered.

I have less problem with deGrom being in the HOF than Baines.

Only mentioned Koufax because he's the MLB standard we use for a player who had a Hall of Fame career shortened by injury but anyone who knows baseball knows was/is a Hall of Famer, not as a pure Koufax v deGrom comp.

And Baines is in no way, shape or form a Hall of Famer.

3dender wrote: ↑22 May 2025 14:28 pm Clear HOFer, especially with the serious decline in pitcher longevity after the last 4 locks retire (Kershaw, Verlander, Scherzer, Greinke).

He and Sale are the surest locks of the next generation imo.

The first three you listed are slam dunk 1st ballot.

I don't put Greinke in their class, may take him a couple ballots to get in.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 May 2025 14:47 pm

rbirules wrote: ↑22 May 2025 14:29 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 May 2025 14:23 pm Hall of Famer ala the Sandy Koufax route?

43.9 WAR

228 GS
88 - 58
2.51 ERA
2.62 FiP
0.99 WHiP

ROY
2 CY's (6 top 10 finishes)
4 time all -star

I say "Yes"

Me personally, I'd rather include players that were absolutely dominant for short to moderate periods of time rather than "good" for a long period.

deGrom isn't quite on Koufax's level because the IP was much lower.

However, my personal opinion on the HOF is that the position is "pitcher" not "starter". If Billy Wagner and his historic strike out rate is in the HOF then a SP that dominated the league to historic levels, even if for a short period of time, should also be in, or at least considered.

I have less problem with deGrom being in the HOF than Baines.

Only mentioned Koufax because he's the MLB standard we use for a player who had a Hall of Fame career shortened by injury but anyone who knows baseball knows was/is a Hall of Famer, not as a pure Koufax v deGrom comp.

And Baines is in no way, shape or form a Hall of Famer.

Except for the fact that Baines is, in fact, in the hall of fame.

Yes, I was just implying that deGrom's totals, including WAR, aren't as high as Koufax because pitchers don't compile as many innings now as they did 60 years ago.

He needs to have good health and post some solid numbers over the next 3 years or so to make the HOF IMO.
His numbers pale in comparison with HOF guys with short careers like Koufax and Dizzy Dean.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 May 2025 14:52 pm

3dender wrote: ↑22 May 2025 14:28 pm Clear HOFer, especially with the serious decline in pitcher longevity after the last 4 locks retire (Kershaw, Verlander, Scherzer, Greinke).

He and Sale are the surest locks of the next generation imo.

The first three you listed are slam dunk 1st ballot.

I don't put Greinke in their class, may take him a couple ballots to get in.

Greinke has more bWAR than Scherzer, 3 less than Verlander and 2 less than Kershaw. By fWAR he is further away but still has 66 WAR. Just cause he wasn't as sexy as the rest of them doesn't mean he's not every bit as deserving.

But you're right, for whatever reason fans/experts seem to have a blind spot with him so I wouldn't be shocked if he doesn't go 1st ballot. He definitely should though.

deGrom certainly has hall of fame stuff. When healthy, probably the best this century. But, he hasn't thrown 100 innings since 2019. I think the 1400 IP's is going to make it an uphill battle.

Wins, WAR, IP's and post-season are all going against him. He could pitch three more years (like this year) and help his chances a lot.

The whole discussion around starting pitchers into the HOF (after the four locks mentioned) could go in a lot of ways. Another one is Felix Hernandez. He was dominant for 6-7 years and has a WAR around 50. There's Cole Hamels, Lester, Pettite, etc. all similar WAR but not likely to get in.

88-58, 2.51 ERA and just 1,425 innings pitched and he gets in because he got two Cy Youngs, placing in the top three in voting three times?

What do you do with the pitchers who had great seasons, but a meager amount of total wins and innings in the first 79 years of baseball when there was no Cy Young Award??? You gonna put Smokey Joe Wood or Jack Coombs in the HOF too? How about Urban Shocker or Jim Bagby. Or even those when Cy Young Awards were given. Bret Saberhagen? He's got two Cy Young and three top three finishes like DeGrom. How about David Cone?

nighthawk wrote: ↑22 May 2025 15:27 pm 88-58, 2.51 ERA and just 1,425 innings pitched and he gets in because he got two Cy Youngs, placing in the top three in voting three times?

What do you do with the pitchers who had great seasons, but a meager amount of total wins and innings in the first 79 years of baseball when there was no Cy Young Award??? You gonna put Smokey Joe Wood or Jack Coombs in the HOF too? How about Urban Shocker or Jim Bagby. Or even those when Cy Young Awards were given. Bret Saberhagen? He's got two Cy Young and three top three finishes like DeGrom. How about David Cone?

Does Tim Lincecum get in?

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑22 May 2025 16:10 pm

nighthawk wrote: ↑22 May 2025 15:27 pm 88-58, 2.51 ERA and just 1,425 innings pitched and he gets in because he got two Cy Youngs, placing in the top three in voting three times?

What do you do with the pitchers who had great seasons, but a meager amount of total wins and innings in the first 79 years of baseball when there was no Cy Young Award??? You gonna put Smokey Joe Wood or Jack Coombs in the HOF too? How about Urban Shocker or Jim Bagby. Or even those when Cy Young Awards were given. Bret Saberhagen? He's got two Cy Young and three top three finishes like DeGrom. How about David Cone?

Does Tim Lincecum get in?

Exactly.

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑22 May 2025 16:10 pm

nighthawk wrote: ↑22 May 2025 15:27 pm 88-58, 2.51 ERA and just 1,425 innings pitched and he gets in because he got two Cy Youngs, placing in the top three in voting three times?

What do you do with the pitchers who had great seasons, but a meager amount of total wins and innings in the first 79 years of baseball when there was no Cy Young Award??? You gonna put Smokey Joe Wood or Jack Coombs in the HOF too? How about Urban Shocker or Jim Bagby. Or even those when Cy Young Awards were given. Bret Saberhagen? He's got two Cy Young and three top three finishes like DeGrom. How about David Cone?

Does Tim Lincecum get in?

Lincecum had more than half of his career with an ERA over 4. He had 3 great seasons and 1 good one. And a 19 career bWAR.

DeGrom has an ERA over 3 in 3 “seasons” with a high of 3.53. Yes, he had health issues. But when he was on the field there has never been any denying that he had elite elite elite elite elite talent.

nighthawk wrote: ↑22 May 2025 15:27 pm 88-58, 2.51 ERA and just 1,425 innings pitched and he gets in because he got two Cy Youngs, placing in the top three in voting three times?

What do you do with the pitchers who had great seasons, but a meager amount of total wins and innings in the first 79 years of baseball when there was no Cy Young Award??? You gonna put Smokey Joe Wood or Jack Coombs in the HOF too? How about Urban Shocker or Jim Bagby. Or even those when Cy Young Awards were given. Bret Saberhagen? He's got two Cy Young and three top three finishes like DeGrom. How about David Cone?

Do you put Chris Carpenter and Adam in? I think Adam for sure is as deserving as DeGrom

I don’t think he deserves to get in. Just four seasons of 30 or more starts is awful. I don’t care if he is good if he only makes a few starts a year he shouldn’t be in