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Are they still....
Posted: 12 May 2025 09:09 am
by AZ_Cardsfan
investing resources into the scouting and development side? The whole point of reducing payroll was to rebuild that side of the house and it's great they are 1 game out of first. Just curious if the intended rebuild of the system is still on or did poor ticket sales crater the reset?
Re: Are they still....
Posted: 12 May 2025 09:13 am
by sikeston bulldog2
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑12 May 2025 09:09 am
investing resources into the scouting and development side? The whole point of reducing payroll was to rebuild that side of the house and it's great they are 1 game out of first. Just curious if the intended rebuild of the system is still on or did poor ticket sales crater the reset?
Tickets no. Reset is still on. Don’t let results altered the plan. If we can excel in phase one of a reset, imagine what we might do after the reset.
Excited.
Re: Are they still....
Posted: 12 May 2025 09:22 am
by 3dender
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑12 May 2025 09:09 am
The whole point of reducing payroll was to rebuild that side of the house
If you believed that you are a mark.
That was just the latest in a parade of excuses for why they can't raise or must lower payroll. The amount of money it would take to beef up the scouting/development was never equivalent to how much they are cutting.
Unless I'm mistaken there's not even an estimate of a figure that has been reported (a failure of STL sports journalism imo). How much $ does it really take to improve scouting/development? You hire 15-20 new people at 6 figure salaries... that's $1.5-2M. You build a new complex in Florida that's probably $5-10M. Tops.
But we don't know actual figures bc it's not in the team's interest for us to know because it was always a very blatant red herring for why they can't spend money to actually compete. They could and can absolutely do both at the same time.
Re: Are they still....
Posted: 12 May 2025 09:46 am
by Cranny
3dender wrote: ↑12 May 2025 09:22 am
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑12 May 2025 09:09 am
The whole point of reducing payroll was to rebuild that side of the house
If you believed that you are a mark.
That was just the latest in a parade of excuses for why they can't raise or must lower payroll. The amount of money it would take to beef up the scouting/development was never equivalent to how much they are cutting.
Unless I'm mistaken there's not even an estimate of a figure that has been reported (a failure of STL sports journalism imo). How much $ does it really take to improve scouting/development? You hire 15-20 new people at 6 figure salaries... that's $1.5-2M. You build a new complex in Florida that's probably $5-10M. Tops.
But we don't know actual figures bc it's not in the team's interest for us to know because it was always a very blatant red herring for why they can't spend money to actually compete. They could and can absolutely do both at the same time.
Seems to me that they’re absolutely doing that right now.
Re: Are they still....
Posted: 12 May 2025 10:07 am
by renostl
3dender wrote: ↑12 May 2025 09:22 am
AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑12 May 2025 09:09 am
The whole point of reducing payroll was to rebuild that side of the house
If you believed that you are a mark.
That was just the latest in a parade of excuses for why they can't raise or must lower payroll. The amount of money it would take to beef up the scouting/development was never equivalent to how much they are cutting.
Unless I'm mistaken there's not even an estimate of a figure that has been reported (a failure of STL sports journalism imo). How much $ does it really take to improve scouting/development? You hire 15-20 new people at 6 figure salaries... that's $1.5-2M. You build a new complex in Florida that's probably $5-10M. Tops.
But we don't know actual figures bc it's not in the team's interest for us to know because it was always a very blatant red herring for why they can't spend money to actually compete. They could and can absolutely do both at the same time.
Agree.
Gibson and Lynn should easily pay for an item that is mostly an improved infrastructure thing. 1 time cost.
Throw in MCarp and Kittredge if we must. To get the good stuff and Miami isn't getting all new facilities for free.
One point is that all teams need to maintain their businesses. It's a basic cost of doing it.
Which should raise a question of what to do with the other attrition in player movement money.
That has happened and will happen. Goldy $25.3, Mikolas, $17.6, Matz $12.5, and Fedde $7.5.
They will have raises, future cost, etc. They will also have some significant bank and 1 less GM on the books.
Right field production and a solid BP away from NLC contender. Do they make those moves to better
fill the stands, improve the money flow quicker than expected?
Re: Are they still....
Posted: 12 May 2025 10:13 am
by kyace
I thought I had read earlier that the cost of the update to the Jupiter facility was @$100 million with the county, Cards and Marlins sharing the cost
Re: Are they still....
Posted: 12 May 2025 10:24 am
by renostl
kyace wrote: ↑12 May 2025 10:13 am
I thought I had read earlier that the cost of the update to the Jupiter facility was @$100 million with the county, Cards and Marlins sharing the cost
If true, then the already completed salary attrition that has already
happened pays for the Cards share assuming that's 50%.
I have zero concerns of the going forward cost since it's the cost
of doing business in baseball and they do these investments to save
money by developing cost efficient players.
Re: Are they still....
Posted: 12 May 2025 10:40 am
by 3dender
kyace wrote: ↑12 May 2025 10:13 am
I thought I had read earlier that the cost of the update to the Jupiter facility was @$100 million with the county, Cards and Marlins sharing the cost
A few additional things about that:
- The $108M is not just for a new training facility, it is for renovations to the stadium including new locker rooms, a new "Fan Zone," and a new team store (i.e. these last two are revenue-generating investments)
- The renovation was scheduled to start in 2023 and got delayed, therefore it cannot be a justification for decreased spending this year.
- 2/3 of the cost is being covered by state/county taxes
So all told the Cards will be spending 50% (split w/Marlins) of 33% (split with taxpayers) of $108M for all of these renovations, of which the training facility makes up maybe around 33% of improvements. That comes out to about
$6M total for the "scouting/development investments."
In other words my comments above are totally correct... they are investing
MAYBE $10M in player development ($6M of which they've known about for years so cannot really be considered a new investment), while cutting payroll $30M. And millions of fans simply accepted that payroll-cutting excuse as legitimate.
From this article:
https://stetnews.org/2025/05/09/bulldoz ... r-stadium/
Re: Are they still....
Posted: 12 May 2025 11:26 am
by AZ_Cardsfan
Was increasing the Miami training facility the only improvement? I sure hope not. They need more international exposure and scouts everywhere. They need better technology in their minor league system. But back to the original question does anyone actually KNOW if the revamp is still on track or has the lowered income from fans shelved any part of that?
Signed - the mark.
Re: Are they still....
Posted: 12 May 2025 11:27 am
by rockondlouie
3dender wrote: ↑12 May 2025 10:40 am
kyace wrote: ↑12 May 2025 10:13 am
I thought I had read earlier that the cost of the update to the Jupiter facility was @$100 million with the county, Cards and Marlins sharing the cost
A few additional things about that:
- The $108M is not just for a new training facility, it is for renovations to the stadium including new locker rooms, a new "Fan Zone," and a new team store (i.e. these last two are revenue-generating investments)
- The renovation was scheduled to start in 2023 and got delayed, therefore it cannot be a justification for decreased spending this year.
- 2/3 of the cost is being covered by state/county taxes
So all told the Cards will be spending 50% (split w/Marlins) of 33% (split with taxpayers) of $108M for all of these renovations, of which the training facility makes up maybe around 33% of improvements. That comes out to about
$6M total for the "scouting/development investments."
In other words my comments above are totally correct... they are investing
MAYBE $10M in player development ($6M of which they've known about for years so cannot really be considered a new investment), while cutting payroll $30M. And millions of fans simply accepted that payroll-cutting excuse as legitimate.
From this article:
https://stetnews.org/2025/05/09/bulldoz ... r-stadium/
BAM!
3d nails BDWJr and his scam for slashing payroll this season!
Good job