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hugeCardfan wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:28 pm OK, injuries hurt. Losing the guy who was leading us with HR's didn't help. Starting a road trip with a team (Mets) that is virtually hitting on all cylinders in the pitching ranks at their park hasn't helped either. Having Fernandez and King in our bullpen isn't working either.

So what has gone wrong? One: we went to a six man rotation. Seems like an OK idea if we hadn't taken resources from the pen. We did take them away and are learning that it doesn't work.

Who are the starters? Sonny, Fedde, Pallante, Mikolas, Matz and Liberatore.

What's wrong with that picture other than the fact that we stole both Liberatore and Matz from the pen where they were very effective. That might be fine, if we had backfill. News flash! We don't.

So, we need 5 starters. That suggests that Matz or Liberatore needs to return to the pen. Since we'll need him as a starter next year, I suggest we keep Libby in the rotation. Matz reverts to a long closer. If he can put a 3 or 4 inning finishing touch on a game each week, that means we give the rest of the bullpen a nite off. What a concept!

We could use one of those. But, if we ditch the two ineffectives, King and Fernandez, we still need another reliever. Some suggest McGreevy and others Roby. I'd bring McGreevy up to start and put Mikolas in the long role. McGreevy auditions for 2026 and Mikolas waves goodbye next year. Can Mikolas adapt to bullpen? I dunno. But, he can't be any worse than K and F. I don't like the idea of putting Roby in the pen, but there is an argument that he might be more durable there.

I would prefer to use LIbby and McGreevy in the rotation. Maybe it wouldn't be a strong point this year, but a good investment to the future. Using Mikolas and Matz as long relievers can give relief for the remainder of the pen and we don't have any plans for them in '26.

If we don't overuse Leary, Romero, Maton and Helsley (and Svanson?) they should be an effective bullpen and actually help us in the tight games.

Consider.

Shady wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:31 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:28 pm OK, injuries hurt. Losing the guy who was leading us with HR's didn't help. Starting a road trip with a team (Mets) that is virtually hitting on all cylinders in the pitching ranks at their park hasn't helped either. Having Fernandez and King in our bullpen isn't working either.

So what has gone wrong? One: we went to a six man rotation. Seems like an OK idea if we hadn't taken resources from the pen. We did take them away and are learning that it doesn't work.

Who are the starters? Sonny, Fedde, Pallante, Mikolas, Matz and Liberatore.

What's wrong with that picture other than the fact that we stole both Liberatore and Matz from the pen where they were very effective. That might be fine, if we had backfill. News flash! We don't.

So, we need 5 starters. That suggests that Matz or Liberatore needs to return to the pen. Since we'll need him as a starter next year, I suggest we keep Libby in the rotation. Matz reverts to a long closer. If he can put a 3 or 4 inning finishing touch on a game each week, that means we give the rest of the bullpen a nite off. What a concept!

We could use one of those. But, if we ditch the two ineffectives, King and Fernandez, we still need another reliever. Some suggest McGreevy and others Roby. I'd bring McGreevy up to start and put Mikolas in the long role. McGreevy auditions for 2026 and Mikolas waves goodbye next year. Can Mikolas adapt to bullpen? I dunno. But, he can't be any worse than K and F. I don't like the idea of putting Roby in the pen, but there is an argument that he might be more durable there.

I would prefer to use LIbby and McGreevy in the rotation. Maybe it wouldn't be a strong point this year, but a good investment to the future. Using Mikolas and Matz as long relievers can give relief for the remainder of the pen and we don't have any plans for them in '26.

If we don't overuse Leary, Romero, Maton and Helsley (and Svanson?) they should be an effective bullpen and actually help us in the tight games.

Consider.

Get Contreras', Walker's, Gorman's and Burleson's hitting going like Saggese' is, right now. And it could happen.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:34 pm

Shady wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:31 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:28 pm OK, injuries hurt. Losing the guy who was leading us with HR's didn't help. Starting a road trip with a team (Mets) that is virtually hitting on all cylinders in the pitching ranks at their park hasn't helped either. Having Fernandez and King in our bullpen isn't working either.

So what has gone wrong? One: we went to a six man rotation. Seems like an OK idea if we hadn't taken resources from the pen. We did take them away and are learning that it doesn't work.

Who are the starters? Sonny, Fedde, Pallante, Mikolas, Matz and Liberatore.

What's wrong with that picture other than the fact that we stole both Liberatore and Matz from the pen where they were very effective. That might be fine, if we had backfill. News flash! We don't.

So, we need 5 starters. That suggests that Matz or Liberatore needs to return to the pen. Since we'll need him as a starter next year, I suggest we keep Libby in the rotation. Matz reverts to a long closer. If he can put a 3 or 4 inning finishing touch on a game each week, that means we give the rest of the bullpen a nite off. What a concept!

We could use one of those. But, if we ditch the two ineffectives, King and Fernandez, we still need another reliever. Some suggest McGreevy and others Roby. I'd bring McGreevy up to start and put Mikolas in the long role. McGreevy auditions for 2026 and Mikolas waves goodbye next year. Can Mikolas adapt to bullpen? I dunno. But, he can't be any worse than K and F. I don't like the idea of putting Roby in the pen, but there is an argument that he might be more durable there.

I would prefer to use LIbby and McGreevy in the rotation. Maybe it wouldn't be a strong point this year, but a good investment to the future. Using Mikolas and Matz as long relievers can give relief for the remainder of the pen and we don't have any plans for them in '26.

If we don't overuse Leary, Romero, Maton and Helsley (and Svanson?) they should be an effective bullpen and actually help us in the tight games.

Consider.

Get Contreras', Walker's, Gorman's and Burleson's hitting going like Saggese' is, right now. And it could happen.

That's a happy outcome, not a directed solution.

I happen to think that if we can resolve the pitching deficiency, the position players think we have a better chance to win and perform accordingly.

imadangman wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:47 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:34 pm

Shady wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:31 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:28 pm OK, injuries hurt. Losing the guy who was leading us with HR's didn't help. Starting a road trip with a team (Mets) that is virtually hitting on all cylinders in the pitching ranks at their park hasn't helped either. Having Fernandez and King in our bullpen isn't working either.

So what has gone wrong? One: we went to a six man rotation. Seems like an OK idea if we hadn't taken resources from the pen. We did take them away and are learning that it doesn't work.

Who are the starters? Sonny, Fedde, Pallante, Mikolas, Matz and Liberatore.

What's wrong with that picture other than the fact that we stole both Liberatore and Matz from the pen where they were very effective. That might be fine, if we had backfill. News flash! We don't.

So, we need 5 starters. That suggests that Matz or Liberatore needs to return to the pen. Since we'll need him as a starter next year, I suggest we keep Libby in the rotation. Matz reverts to a long closer. If he can put a 3 or 4 inning finishing touch on a game each week, that means we give the rest of the bullpen a nite off. What a concept!

We could use one of those. But, if we ditch the two ineffectives, King and Fernandez, we still need another reliever. Some suggest McGreevy and others Roby. I'd bring McGreevy up to start and put Mikolas in the long role. McGreevy auditions for 2026 and Mikolas waves goodbye next year. Can Mikolas adapt to bullpen? I dunno. But, he can't be any worse than K and F. I don't like the idea of putting Roby in the pen, but there is an argument that he might be more durable there.

I would prefer to use LIbby and McGreevy in the rotation. Maybe it wouldn't be a strong point this year, but a good investment to the future. Using Mikolas and Matz as long relievers can give relief for the remainder of the pen and we don't have any plans for them in '26.

If we don't overuse Leary, Romero, Maton and Helsley (and Svanson?) they should be an effective bullpen and actually help us in the tight games.

Consider.

Get Contreras', Walker's, Gorman's and Burleson's hitting going like Saggese' is, right now. And it could happen.

That's a happy outcome, not a directed solution.

I happen to think that if we can resolve the pitching deficiency, the position players think we have a better chance to win and perform accordingly.

I think when we get Herrera back he can lead the way with power and then hopefully Contreras and Walker etc can get comfortable behind him. With our lineup in full health, the offense is not deficient as a whole. There's speed, contact, obp, all there.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:53 pm

imadangman wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:47 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:34 pm

Shady wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:31 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:28 pm OK, injuries hurt. Losing the guy who was leading us with HR's didn't help. Starting a road trip with a team (Mets) that is virtually hitting on all cylinders in the pitching ranks at their park hasn't helped either. Having Fernandez and King in our bullpen isn't working either.

So what has gone wrong? One: we went to a six man rotation. Seems like an OK idea if we hadn't taken resources from the pen. We did take them away and are learning that it doesn't work.

Who are the starters? Sonny, Fedde, Pallante, Mikolas, Matz and Liberatore.

What's wrong with that picture other than the fact that we stole both Liberatore and Matz from the pen where they were very effective. That might be fine, if we had backfill. News flash! We don't.

So, we need 5 starters. That suggests that Matz or Liberatore needs to return to the pen. Since we'll need him as a starter next year, I suggest we keep Libby in the rotation. Matz reverts to a long closer. If he can put a 3 or 4 inning finishing touch on a game each week, that means we give the rest of the bullpen a nite off. What a concept!

We could use one of those. But, if we ditch the two ineffectives, King and Fernandez, we still need another reliever. Some suggest McGreevy and others Roby. I'd bring McGreevy up to start and put Mikolas in the long role. McGreevy auditions for 2026 and Mikolas waves goodbye next year. Can Mikolas adapt to bullpen? I dunno. But, he can't be any worse than K and F. I don't like the idea of putting Roby in the pen, but there is an argument that he might be more durable there.

I would prefer to use LIbby and McGreevy in the rotation. Maybe it wouldn't be a strong point this year, but a good investment to the future. Using Mikolas and Matz as long relievers can give relief for the remainder of the pen and we don't have any plans for them in '26.

If we don't overuse Leary, Romero, Maton and Helsley (and Svanson?) they should be an effective bullpen and actually help us in the tight games.

Consider.

Get Contreras', Walker's, Gorman's and Burleson's hitting going like Saggese' is, right now. And it could happen.

That's a happy outcome, not a directed solution.

I happen to think that if we can resolve the pitching deficiency, the position players think we have a better chance to win and perform accordingly.

I think when we get Herrera back he can lead the way with power and then hopefully Contreras and Walker etc can get comfortable behind him. With our lineup in full health, the offense is not deficient as a whole. There's speed, contact, obp, all there.

I agree. Do you agree that the problem is the pitching, specifically bullpen?

swatski wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:54 pm I just know one thing, this team is not close contending in 2025. Which means every decision the front office makes with regard to playing time should be made with the future in mind.

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 19:16 pm Many things. That’s why they’re taking a whole season to do it.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:34 pm

Shady wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:31 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:28 pm OK, injuries hurt. Losing the guy who was leading us with HR's didn't help. Starting a road trip with a team (Mets) that is virtually hitting on all cylinders in the pitching ranks at their park hasn't helped either. Having Fernandez and King in our bullpen isn't working either.

So what has gone wrong? One: we went to a six man rotation. Seems like an OK idea if we hadn't taken resources from the pen. We did take them away and are learning that it doesn't work.

Who are the starters? Sonny, Fedde, Pallante, Mikolas, Matz and Liberatore.

What's wrong with that picture other than the fact that we stole both Liberatore and Matz from the pen where they were very effective. That might be fine, if we had backfill. News flash! We don't.

So, we need 5 starters. That suggests that Matz or Liberatore needs to return to the pen. Since we'll need him as a starter next year, I suggest we keep Libby in the rotation. Matz reverts to a long closer. If he can put a 3 or 4 inning finishing touch on a game each week, that means we give the rest of the bullpen a nite off. What a concept!

We could use one of those. But, if we ditch the two ineffectives, King and Fernandez, we still need another reliever. Some suggest McGreevy and others Roby. I'd bring McGreevy up to start and put Mikolas in the long role. McGreevy auditions for 2026 and Mikolas waves goodbye next year. Can Mikolas adapt to bullpen? I dunno. But, he can't be any worse than K and F. I don't like the idea of putting Roby in the pen, but there is an argument that he might be more durable there.

I would prefer to use LIbby and McGreevy in the rotation. Maybe it wouldn't be a strong point this year, but a good investment to the future. Using Mikolas and Matz as long relievers can give relief for the remainder of the pen and we don't have any plans for them in '26.

If we don't overuse Leary, Romero, Maton and Helsley (and Svanson?) they should be an effective bullpen and actually help us in the tight games.

Consider.

Get Contreras', Walker's, Gorman's and Burleson's hitting going like Saggese' is, right now. And it could happen.

That's a happy outcome, not a directed solution.

I happen to think that if we can resolve the pitching deficiency, the position players think we have a better chance to win and perform accordingly.[l/B]

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 21:14 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:34 pm

Shady wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:31 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 18:28 pm OK, injuries hurt. Losing the guy who was leading us with HR's didn't help. Starting a road trip with a team (Mets) that is virtually hitting on all cylinders in the pitching ranks at their park hasn't helped either. Having Fernandez and King in our bullpen isn't working either.

So what has gone wrong? One: we went to a six man rotation. Seems like an OK idea if we hadn't taken resources from the pen. We did take them away and are learning that it doesn't work.

Who are the starters? Sonny, Fedde, Pallante, Mikolas, Matz and Liberatore.

What's wrong with that picture other than the fact that we stole both Liberatore and Matz from the pen where they were very effective. That might be fine, if we had backfill. News flash! We don't.

So, we need 5 starters. That suggests that Matz or Liberatore needs to return to the pen. Since we'll need him as a starter next year, I suggest we keep Libby in the rotation. Matz reverts to a long closer. If he can put a 3 or 4 inning finishing touch on a game each week, that means we give the rest of the bullpen a nite off. What a concept!

We could use one of those. But, if we ditch the two ineffectives, King and Fernandez, we still need another reliever. Some suggest McGreevy and others Roby. I'd bring McGreevy up to start and put Mikolas in the long role. McGreevy auditions for 2026 and Mikolas waves goodbye next year. Can Mikolas adapt to bullpen? I dunno. But, he can't be any worse than K and F. I don't like the idea of putting Roby in the pen, but there is an argument that he might be more durable there.

I would prefer to use LIbby and McGreevy in the rotation. Maybe it wouldn't be a strong point this year, but a good investment to the future. Using Mikolas and Matz as long relievers can give relief for the remainder of the pen and we don't have any plans for them in '26.

If we don't overuse Leary, Romero, Maton and Helsley (and Svanson?) they should be an effective bullpen and actually help us in the tight games.

Consider.

Get Contreras', Walker's, Gorman's and Burleson's hitting going like Saggese' is, right now. And it could happen.

That's a happy outcome, not a directed solution.

I happen to think that if we can resolve the pitching deficiency, the position players think we have a better chance to win and perform accordingly.[l/B]

O you think it’s a pitching problem? Libby gave up 2 runs in 6.2 IP on Saturday and took the loss. The hitting has been a problem, especially on the road.