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Pallante game.
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 13:25 pm
by sikeston bulldog2
Good morning.
He is our number three. What are the expectations of a three. A quality start?
Pallante had one bad inning in six. Four hits four runs. All his pitches were up and down the middle.
Seven total hits. Zero walks. 2 K’s. He is 2-1 with a 3.22 ERA, a jump of one full run. His whip saves him at 1.07.
Has pitched 22.1 innings, 5, 4.1, 7, and 6 innings. Against Minnesota Boston there Phillies and Mets. That’s strong. And he’s a number three.
He is not a strike out pitcher. When most need a strike out he gets a ground ball. He’s a ground ball machine, so if his pitches take flight, he’s in trouble.
Good number three- averaged 5.5 innings per game, 5 hits 1 walk. Less than a hr per game.
Thoughts.
Re: Pallante game.
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 13:36 pm
by ICCFIM2
He earned his spot in the rotation. Every pitcher is going to have bad innings. As bad as the second inning was yesterday, he was stellar the rest of the game and got through 6 innings. It made yesterday's start fine, they just didn't score. Assuming McGreevy pitches like he did last year, between Gray, Pallante and McGreevy, the Cards have three decent starters going forward. The staff may be decent overall this year. The real problem they have is after that, the depth looks shaky. Mathews is hurt, Hence is hurt, Thompson is hurt so I am not sure where they are going to get starters next year without signing more veterans ala 2024. But to your point, Pallante is a decent #3.
Re: Pallante game.
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 13:39 pm
by sikeston bulldog2
ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 13:36 pm
He earned his spot in the rotation. Every pitcher is going to have bad innings. As bad as the second inning was yesterday, he was stellar the rest of the game and got through 6 innings. It made yesterday's start fine, they just didn't score. Assuming McGreevy pitches like he did last year, between Gray, Pallante and McGreevy, the Cards have three decent starters going forward. The staff may be decent overall this year. The real problem they have is after that, the depth looks shaky. Mathews is hurt, Hence is hurt, Thompson is hurt so I am not sure where they are going to get starters next year without signing more veterans ala 2024. But to your point, Pallante is a decent #3.
Thanx for your time. Good input. I compare him to the league and I’m betting number threes aside, he is in the top five number threes. You mention decent. I’d say good at three, decent for a number two, and occasionally a number one performance.
Re: Pallante game.
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 13:58 pm
by ICCFIM2
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 13:39 pm
ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 13:36 pm
He earned his spot in the rotation. Every pitcher is going to have bad innings. As bad as the second inning was yesterday, he was stellar the rest of the game and got through 6 innings. It made yesterday's start fine, they just didn't score. Assuming McGreevy pitches like he did last year, between Gray, Pallante and McGreevy, the Cards have three decent starters going forward. The staff may be decent overall this year. The real problem they have is after that, the depth looks shaky. Mathews is hurt, Hence is hurt, Thompson is hurt so I am not sure where they are going to get starters next year without signing more veterans ala 2024. But to your point, Pallante is a decent #3.
Thanx for your time. Good input. I compare him to the league and I’m betting number threes aside, he is in the top five number threes. You mention decent. I’d say good at three, decent for a number two, and occasionally a number one performance.
Decent/good. Some semantics. It is so hard to be a starting pitcher in the major leagues, when I say someone has earned their spot, by definition they are good. When it comes to where they slot into a rotation, there are several teams with such stellar rotations, it is absurd at this point. But to your point, on probably 15-20 teams he is in the top 3 and on maybe 5-10 teams he is a #2. Pitchers throw harder these days, but I kind of view him like Jeff Suppan, you know you are going to get a decent 6 from the guy. Suppan won some of the biggest games for the Cards in the mid 2000s...
Re: Pallante game.
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 14:11 pm
by renostl
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 13:25 pm
Good morning.
He is our number three. What are the expectations of a three. A quality start?
Pallante had one bad inning in six. Four hits four runs. All his pitches were up and down the middle.
Seven total hits. Zero walks. 2 K’s. He is 2-1 with a 3.22 ERA, a jump of one full run. His whip saves him at 1.07.
Has pitched 22.1 innings, 5, 4.1, 7, and 6 innings. Against Minnesota Boston there Phillies and Mets. That’s strong. And he’s a number three.
He is not a strike out pitcher. When most need a strike out he gets a ground ball. He’s a ground ball machine, so if his pitches take flight, he’s in trouble.
Good number three- averaged 5.5 innings per game, 5 hits 1 walk. Less than a hr per game.
Thoughts.
I like a #3 that I am confident in him being on the mound in a playoff game.
The team MIGHT have 3 #3's in Fedde, Liberatore, and Pallante
Re: Pallante game.
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 14:25 pm
by sikeston bulldog2
renostl wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 14:11 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 13:25 pm
Good morning.
He is our number three. What are the expectations of a three. A quality start?
Pallante had one bad inning in six. Four hits four runs. All his pitches were up and down the middle.
Seven total hits. Zero walks. 2 K’s. He is 2-1 with a 3.22 ERA, a jump of one full run. His whip saves him at 1.07.
Has pitched 22.1 innings, 5, 4.1, 7, and 6 innings. Against Minnesota Boston there Phillies and Mets. That’s strong. And he’s a number three.
He is not a strike out pitcher. When most need a strike out he gets a ground ball. He’s a ground ball machine, so if his pitches take flight, he’s in trouble.
Good number three- averaged 5.5 innings per game, 5 hits 1 walk. Less than a hr per game.
Thoughts.
I like a #3 that I am confident in him being on the mound in a playoff game.
The team MIGHT have 3 #3's in Fedde, Liberatore, and Pallante
Funny you said that. My next entry was exactly that- three number threes, making Gray a number two. Now just think, if we had a league horse at one, we would compete. That should be rectified in the rebuild.
Re: Pallante game.
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 14:44 pm
by renostl
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 14:25 pm
renostl wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 14:11 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 13:25 pm
Good morning.
He is our number three. What are the expectations of a three. A quality start?
Pallante had one bad inning in six. Four hits four runs. All his pitches were up and down the middle.
Seven total hits. Zero walks. 2 K’s. He is 2-1 with a 3.22 ERA, a jump of one full run. His whip saves him at 1.07.
Has pitched 22.1 innings, 5, 4.1, 7, and 6 innings. Against Minnesota Boston there Phillies and Mets. That’s strong. And he’s a number three.
He is not a strike out pitcher. When most need a strike out he gets a ground ball. He’s a ground ball machine, so if his pitches take flight, he’s in trouble.
Good number three- averaged 5.5 innings per game, 5 hits 1 walk. Less than a hr per game.
Thoughts.
I like a #3 that I am confident in him being on the mound in a playoff game.
The team MIGHT have 3 #3's in Fedde, Liberatore, and Pallante
Funny you said that. My next entry was exactly that- three number threes, making Gray a number two. Now just think, if we had a league horse at one, we would compete. That should be rectified in the rebuild.
Drafting the next Paul Skenes would be fantastic.
One of somebody leap frogging Gray in production would
turn them into NLC favorites.
Close enough to dream, far enough away to .......
Re: Pallante game.
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 14:49 pm
by sikeston bulldog2
renostl wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 14:44 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 14:25 pm
renostl wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 14:11 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 13:25 pm
Good morning.
He is our number three. What are the expectations of a three. A quality start?
Pallante had one bad inning in six. Four hits four runs. All his pitches were up and down the middle.
Seven total hits. Zero walks. 2 K’s. He is 2-1 with a 3.22 ERA, a jump of one full run. His whip saves him at 1.07.
Has pitched 22.1 innings, 5, 4.1, 7, and 6 innings. Against Minnesota Boston there Phillies and Mets. That’s strong. And he’s a number three.
He is not a strike out pitcher. When most need a strike out he gets a ground ball. He’s a ground ball machine, so if his pitches take flight, he’s in trouble.
Good number three- averaged 5.5 innings per game, 5 hits 1 walk. Less than a hr per game.
Thoughts.
I like a #3 that I am confident in him being on the mound in a playoff game.
The team MIGHT have 3 #3's in Fedde, Liberatore, and Pallante
Funny you said that. My next entry was exactly that- three number threes, making Gray a number two. Now just think, if we had a league horse at one, we would compete. That should be rectified in the rebuild.
Drafting the next Paul Skenes would be fantastic.
One of somebody leap frogging Gray in production would
turn them into NLC favorites.
Close enough to dream, far enough away to .......
Seee. Far enough away to see.
And likes been written- when you see the southern cross for the first time; you’ll understand now why, you came this way..
Re: Pallante game.
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 14:58 pm
by NYCardsFan
FWIW, this is from an article in The Athletic today on “Five MLB starters who look like they are breaking out … are the signs real?”
Andre Pallante, Cardinals
He’s always had a good sinker, that Andre Pallante. And that’s ported over to starting, even as he’s lost velocity on the pitch. He’s thrown one of them to left-handers, so he’s got the same weakness against lefties as other sinker/slider guys. He doesn’t have a pitch that rates above average against lefties by Stuff+ and by Pitching+; it’s only the four-seam, because he locates it well. But three OK pitches with command against lefties and a super-sinker against righties is possibly a little underrated.
Think of it this way. Here are all the pitchers with a ground-ball rate over 60 percent and 130 innings over the past two years: Pallante and José Soriano, with Framber Valdez right there as well. It’s boring, and he won’t maintain this production, but could he have a high-threes ERA with a high WHIP and fewer strikeouts than your average pitcher … and still be useful at the right times in the right leagues? For sure.
Re: Pallante game.
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 15:03 pm
by sikeston bulldog2
NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 14:58 pm
FWIW, this is from an article in The Athletic today on “Five MLB starters who look like they are breaking out … are the signs real?”
Andre Pallante, Cardinals
He’s always had a good sinker, that Andre Pallante. And that’s ported over to starting, even as he’s lost velocity on the pitch. He’s thrown one of them to left-handers, so he’s got the same weakness against lefties as other sinker/slider guys. He doesn’t have a pitch that rates above average against lefties by Stuff+ and by Pitching+; it’s only the four-seam, because he locates it well. But three OK pitches with command against lefties and a super-sinker against righties is possibly a little underrated.
Think of it this way. Here are all the pitchers with a ground-ball rate over 60 percent and 130 innings over the past two years: Pallante and José Soriano, with Framber Valdez right there as well. It’s boring, and he won’t maintain this production, but could he have a high-threes ERA with a high WHIP and fewer strikeouts than your average pitcher … and still be useful at the right times in the right leagues? For sure.
Nice input. Pallante can and only will succeed if he walks very few. He is a ground ball leader, so he can absorb two hit innings; but he can’t afford two hits and a walk.
Re: Pallante game.
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 15:21 pm
by renostl
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 14:49 pm
renostl wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 14:44 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 14:25 pm
renostl wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 14:11 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 13:25 pm
Good morning.
He is our number three. What are the expectations of a three. A quality start?
Pallante had one bad inning in six. Four hits four runs. All his pitches were up and down the middle.
Seven total hits. Zero walks. 2 K’s. He is 2-1 with a 3.22 ERA, a jump of one full run. His whip saves him at 1.07.
Has pitched 22.1 innings, 5, 4.1, 7, and 6 innings. Against Minnesota Boston there Phillies and Mets. That’s strong. And he’s a number three.
He is not a strike out pitcher. When most need a strike out he gets a ground ball. He’s a ground ball machine, so if his pitches take flight, he’s in trouble.
Good number three- averaged 5.5 innings per game, 5 hits 1 walk. Less than a hr per game.
Thoughts.
I like a #3 that I am confident in him being on the mound in a playoff game.
The team MIGHT have 3 #3's in Fedde, Liberatore, and Pallante
Funny you said that. My next entry was exactly that- three number threes, making Gray a number two. Now just think, if we had a league horse at one, we would compete. That should be rectified in the rebuild.
Drafting the next Paul Skenes would be fantastic.
One of somebody leap frogging Gray in production would
turn them into NLC favorites.
Close enough to dream, far enough away to .......
Seee. Far enough away to see.
And likes been written- when you see the southern cross for the first time; you’ll understand now why, you came this way..
I expected lyrics,
left it open for you. Or "so far I just can't see"
Mostly, I expect a #3 to be able to occasionally go toe to toe with an ace. They don't always do it our they'd
be an ace. It's a luxury to have several for the season is long, they won't all make it through and at seasons end
may have jockeyed for where each one's production lands.
Get your league horse and you'll have a rotation that stands with any.
Re: Pallante game.
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 15:48 pm
by Strummer Jones
I've got no complaints with Pallante. As I've said before, he's probably what Dakota Hudson SHOULD have been.
I see a similar thing with him and Liberatore. They have the capability to not let a game snowball. Every pitcher is going to have an inning back up on them. It's what you're able to do after that that makes a difference. I like Pallante's ability to attack hitters--he doesn't seem afraid. He knows who he is and how he's going to beat you. I don't think Liberatore is quite at that point yet--but he's getting there.
I'm glad they're both in the rotation. I don't think starting pitching is our greatest strength, but I don't perceive it as necessarily a weakness. We just lack the top end firepower to put our rotation in the higher echelon of starting pitching staffs. In my mind, we've got Gray, who's probably best used as a #2, and then Fedde/Pallante/Liberatore are #3 or #4 starters.
Re: Pallante game.
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 15:51 pm
by Strummer Jones
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 15:03 pm
NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 14:58 pm
FWIW, this is from an article in The Athletic today on “Five MLB starters who look like they are breaking out … are the signs real?”
Andre Pallante, Cardinals
He’s always had a good sinker, that Andre Pallante. And that’s ported over to starting, even as he’s lost velocity on the pitch. He’s thrown one of them to left-handers, so he’s got the same weakness against lefties as other sinker/slider guys. He doesn’t have a pitch that rates above average against lefties by Stuff+ and by Pitching+; it’s only the four-seam, because he locates it well. But three OK pitches with command against lefties and a super-sinker against righties is possibly a little underrated.
Think of it this way. Here are all the pitchers with a ground-ball rate over 60 percent and 130 innings over the past two years: Pallante and José Soriano, with Framber Valdez right there as well. It’s boring, and he won’t maintain this production, but could he have a high-threes ERA with a high WHIP and fewer strikeouts than your average pitcher … and still be useful at the right times in the right leagues? For sure.
Nice input. Pallante can and only will succeed if he walks very few. He is a ground ball leader, so he can absorb two hit innings; but he can’t afford two hits and a walk.
I think I agree with all of the above. Does he throw a cutter? Could keep lefties honest against him if he can get it to an average/above average level.
As for the two hits and a walk, with today's athleticism, I'm not sure any pitcher can survive that.
Re: Pallante game.
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 15:51 pm
by Wattage
NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 14:58 pm
FWIW, this is from an article in The Athletic today on “Five MLB starters who look like they are breaking out … are the signs real?”
Andre Pallante, Cardinals
He’s always had a good sinker, that Andre Pallante. And that’s ported over to starting, even as he’s lost velocity on the pitch. He’s thrown one of them to left-handers, so he’s got the same weakness against lefties as other sinker/slider guys. He doesn’t have a pitch that rates above average against lefties by Stuff+ and by Pitching+; it’s only the four-seam, because he locates it well. But three OK pitches with command against lefties and a super-sinker against righties is possibly a little underrated.
Think of it this way. Here are all the pitchers with a ground-ball rate over 60 percent and 130 innings over the past two years: Pallante and José Soriano, with Framber Valdez right there as well. It’s boring, and he won’t maintain this production, but could he have a high-threes ERA with a high WHIP and fewer strikeouts than your average pitcher … and still be useful at the right times in the right leagues? For sure.
This is a weird assessment that i dont trust because pallante has dominated lefties and has reverse spluts. Its righties that have given him trouble in his career.
Career
Leftys vs pallante .228, .229, .329, .618
Righties vs pallante .289, .368, .411, .779
If he has plus pitches vs righties and no plus pitches vs lefties, why is it lefties he dominates while righties have given him trouble?
And this isnt one years thing. 2024. Righties .774 ops. Lefties .554
2023 righties- .889. Lefties .694
2022. Righties- .805 lefties .619
This year of 2025 is the only time it hasnt been that way and its small sample size- righties- .559 lefties .663 ans hes still doing well vs lefties. Just dominating righties in small sample size when hes struggled in past.
Hard to take seriously them saying lefties are the problem for him. Its like theyve only watched and studied this year.
Re: Pallante game.
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 15:52 pm
by Wattage
Strummer Jones wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 15:51 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 15:03 pm
NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 14:58 pm
FWIW, this is from an article in The Athletic today on “Five MLB starters who look like they are breaking out … are the signs real?”
Andre Pallante, Cardinals
He’s always had a good sinker, that Andre Pallante. And that’s ported over to starting, even as he’s lost velocity on the pitch. He’s thrown one of them to left-handers, so he’s got the same weakness against lefties as other sinker/slider guys. He doesn’t have a pitch that rates above average against lefties by Stuff+ and by Pitching+; it’s only the four-seam, because he locates it well. But three OK pitches with command against lefties and a super-sinker against righties is possibly a little underrated.
Think of it this way. Here are all the pitchers with a ground-ball rate over 60 percent and 130 innings over the past two years: Pallante and José Soriano, with Framber Valdez right there as well. It’s boring, and he won’t maintain this production, but could he have a high-threes ERA with a high WHIP and fewer strikeouts than your average pitcher … and still be useful at the right times in the right leagues? For sure.
Nice input. Pallante can and only will succeed if he walks very few. He is a ground ball leader, so he can absorb two hit innings; but he can’t afford two hits and a walk.
I think I agree with all of the above. Does he throw a cutter? Could keep lefties honest against him if he can get it to an average/above average level.
As for the two hits and a walk, with today's athleticism, I'm not sure any pitcher can survive that.
This assessment is so weird to me because its righties hes struggled with in his career. Not lefties
Re: Pallante game.
Posted: 18 Apr 2025 16:01 pm
by Strummer Jones
Wattage wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 15:52 pm
Strummer Jones wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 15:51 pm
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 15:03 pm
NYCardsFan wrote: ↑18 Apr 2025 14:58 pm
FWIW, this is from an article in The Athletic today on “Five MLB starters who look like they are breaking out … are the signs real?”
Andre Pallante, Cardinals
He’s always had a good sinker, that Andre Pallante. And that’s ported over to starting, even as he’s lost velocity on the pitch. He’s thrown one of them to left-handers, so he’s got the same weakness against lefties as other sinker/slider guys. He doesn’t have a pitch that rates above average against lefties by Stuff+ and by Pitching+; it’s only the four-seam, because he locates it well. But three OK pitches with command against lefties and a super-sinker against righties is possibly a little underrated.
Think of it this way. Here are all the pitchers with a ground-ball rate over 60 percent and 130 innings over the past two years: Pallante and José Soriano, with Framber Valdez right there as well. It’s boring, and he won’t maintain this production, but could he have a high-threes ERA with a high WHIP and fewer strikeouts than your average pitcher … and still be useful at the right times in the right leagues? For sure.
Nice input. Pallante can and only will succeed if he walks very few. He is a ground ball leader, so he can absorb two hit innings; but he can’t afford two hits and a walk.
I think I agree with all of the above. Does he throw a cutter? Could keep lefties honest against him if he can get it to an average/above average level.
As for the two hits and a walk, with today's athleticism, I'm not sure any pitcher can survive that.
This assessment is so weird to me because its righties hes struggled with in his career. Not lefties
That's true, I remember that, but I guess that particular part slipped past me. Been a long day!
Either way, I like Pallante. He's kind of a throwback to the Duncan years, but making it work in the modern game.