Future position player group
Posted: 11 Apr 2025 09:06 am
Here's what I think. This may be a tough season to watch but I like that there are about 4 players on the current team that appear to be in their correct position on the field longterm.
C:
1B:
2B:
SS: Winn
3B:
LF: Nootbaar
CF: Scott II
RF: Walker
DH:
So whatever happens, I think those 4 players need to get as much time at those positions as they can.
Let's take it a step further. I'm going to look to 2026-27 and fill in some more positions.
C: Crooks or Bernal (Pages a solid backup)
1B: Herrera
2B: Wetherholt
SS: Winn
3B: (Arenado)
LF: Nootbaar
CF: Scott II
RF: Walker
DH:
These seem like pretty good possibilities at this point. Does anyone think otherwise? It seems like a good thing that we can fill in 7 or 8 positions for the 2026-27 team, and say, that really doesn't look that bad.
Leftover, there's Donovan, Gorman, Burleson, and Saggese. Donovan surely will be in it. Saggese seems like a good utility piece. The others may fit in on the roster or may be traded. Others like Chase Davis may show up.
And let me tell you something. I looked back at some team stats on Fangraphs. What were the markers of the best Cardinal teams we've watched?
From 2000-2006, we would think of the teams as being led by their hitting. It's true, the team was 4th in offensive WAR and 4th in team wRC+ during that span. But what stood apart was the defense. 2nd highest (and very close to the 1st place ATL defense) defensive WAR during that time span. A total of 482.0 defensive runs. All of that helped what was the 20th ranked pitching staff during that time (we know the defense and Dave Duncan got a lot out of a mostly ground ball type of staff). Overall, it seems Jim Edmonds in CF and Scott Rolen at 3B made huge differences. Having players at premium positions that brought both MVP level offense an GG defense. Also Renteria at SS. The team had several cornerstone players that were great on both sides of the ball.
Again from 2019-2022. The team was around 10th best in terms of offensive WAR. But again, they were #1 in defensive WAR during that period. And the pitching staff ranked 16th in pitching WAR.
The other times, when things were rough, off the top of my head, were characterized by too many players not having set positions. Not a cohesive defensive team (like from 2016-2018). Too much "the bat plays" thinking.
So with the current group, you have the opportunity to let a pretty good defensive unit to take shape. As stated, the goal of this season should be to allow this group to take shape rather than overreacting to performances over a short time frame. You don't need to be moving everyone around in the batting order, sending guys down, etc. They made the choice to carry Winn and Scott II on opening day. They should be playing those two (and for the most part, batting them low in the lineup like they are now) every day. They should be allowed to grow into the position offensively, based on their defense (the same way players like Ozzie and Yadi Molina bought a lot of time early based on their defense, allowing their hitting to develop).
So it looks pretty good up the middle with Winn and Wetherholt up the middle, Scott II in CF, and Crooks or Bernal as the catching options.
There's been a lot of discussion about what will happen "on the corners." I guess the main questions for the future center around 1) where Donovan and Wetherholt would play. 2) what will be the condition of Nolan Arenado at age 35-36, and 3) whether Saggese represents an everyday player or more of a utility type (I've thrown out Jed Gyorko as a comp).
3B is a tough position. There don't seem to be a lot of all-star level players at the position that aren't already locked up. Props to SF for nailing down Chapman, and Arizona for sticking Eugenio Suarez at the position. Those seem like pretty good moves in the landscape of today's game.
What is Saggese like defensively at 3B? Maybe look out for Dakota Harris also. Or is Wetherholt at 3B and Donovan staying at 2B a better option? Seems to me like Wetherholt at 2B projects to be the best defense for that position, and probably Wetherholt's best position as well.
So maybe you'd pencil in Donovan as the DH with Wetherholt at 2B, but I imagine the DH would be more of a rotating type of position.
It'll be interesting to see. But I like the makings of the group going forward. I think it has the potential to be very solid defensively. And I think 2025 should be considered a building year to let these guys develop at their future positions with minimal disturbance.
And then after the lockout we will get to see what Bloom can do to enhance this group, as well as on the pitching side what he can get to go along with Mathews, McGreevy, Pallante, Hence (I hope), Roby (I hope), Hjerpe (I hope) among others.
We are going to have to develop a LOT of good young arms, to cover the ~1400 innings that make up MLB season.
C:
1B:
2B:
SS: Winn
3B:
LF: Nootbaar
CF: Scott II
RF: Walker
DH:
So whatever happens, I think those 4 players need to get as much time at those positions as they can.
Let's take it a step further. I'm going to look to 2026-27 and fill in some more positions.
C: Crooks or Bernal (Pages a solid backup)
1B: Herrera
2B: Wetherholt
SS: Winn
3B: (Arenado)
LF: Nootbaar
CF: Scott II
RF: Walker
DH:
These seem like pretty good possibilities at this point. Does anyone think otherwise? It seems like a good thing that we can fill in 7 or 8 positions for the 2026-27 team, and say, that really doesn't look that bad.
Leftover, there's Donovan, Gorman, Burleson, and Saggese. Donovan surely will be in it. Saggese seems like a good utility piece. The others may fit in on the roster or may be traded. Others like Chase Davis may show up.
And let me tell you something. I looked back at some team stats on Fangraphs. What were the markers of the best Cardinal teams we've watched?
From 2000-2006, we would think of the teams as being led by their hitting. It's true, the team was 4th in offensive WAR and 4th in team wRC+ during that span. But what stood apart was the defense. 2nd highest (and very close to the 1st place ATL defense) defensive WAR during that time span. A total of 482.0 defensive runs. All of that helped what was the 20th ranked pitching staff during that time (we know the defense and Dave Duncan got a lot out of a mostly ground ball type of staff). Overall, it seems Jim Edmonds in CF and Scott Rolen at 3B made huge differences. Having players at premium positions that brought both MVP level offense an GG defense. Also Renteria at SS. The team had several cornerstone players that were great on both sides of the ball.
Again from 2019-2022. The team was around 10th best in terms of offensive WAR. But again, they were #1 in defensive WAR during that period. And the pitching staff ranked 16th in pitching WAR.
The other times, when things were rough, off the top of my head, were characterized by too many players not having set positions. Not a cohesive defensive team (like from 2016-2018). Too much "the bat plays" thinking.
So with the current group, you have the opportunity to let a pretty good defensive unit to take shape. As stated, the goal of this season should be to allow this group to take shape rather than overreacting to performances over a short time frame. You don't need to be moving everyone around in the batting order, sending guys down, etc. They made the choice to carry Winn and Scott II on opening day. They should be playing those two (and for the most part, batting them low in the lineup like they are now) every day. They should be allowed to grow into the position offensively, based on their defense (the same way players like Ozzie and Yadi Molina bought a lot of time early based on their defense, allowing their hitting to develop).
So it looks pretty good up the middle with Winn and Wetherholt up the middle, Scott II in CF, and Crooks or Bernal as the catching options.
There's been a lot of discussion about what will happen "on the corners." I guess the main questions for the future center around 1) where Donovan and Wetherholt would play. 2) what will be the condition of Nolan Arenado at age 35-36, and 3) whether Saggese represents an everyday player or more of a utility type (I've thrown out Jed Gyorko as a comp).
3B is a tough position. There don't seem to be a lot of all-star level players at the position that aren't already locked up. Props to SF for nailing down Chapman, and Arizona for sticking Eugenio Suarez at the position. Those seem like pretty good moves in the landscape of today's game.
What is Saggese like defensively at 3B? Maybe look out for Dakota Harris also. Or is Wetherholt at 3B and Donovan staying at 2B a better option? Seems to me like Wetherholt at 2B projects to be the best defense for that position, and probably Wetherholt's best position as well.
So maybe you'd pencil in Donovan as the DH with Wetherholt at 2B, but I imagine the DH would be more of a rotating type of position.
It'll be interesting to see. But I like the makings of the group going forward. I think it has the potential to be very solid defensively. And I think 2025 should be considered a building year to let these guys develop at their future positions with minimal disturbance.
And then after the lockout we will get to see what Bloom can do to enhance this group, as well as on the pitching side what he can get to go along with Mathews, McGreevy, Pallante, Hence (I hope), Roby (I hope), Hjerpe (I hope) among others.
We are going to have to develop a LOT of good young arms, to cover the ~1400 innings that make up MLB season.