Mails shouldn’t be in the NHL right now

[sneptsmoustache]

I'll weigh in on Mailloux after another 150 NHL games haha

Texted my buddy from Montreal who is a huge Habs fan to ask how he thinks the trade is panning out - for what it's worth, his response:

"Mailloux will be great if he can figure it out - no guarantee though. Bolduc has show flashes but also clearly needs to develop. Pretty even at this point still I think."

[dhsux]

Bolduc is pacing for less than 20 goals and less than 40 points, I'd still make that trade today knowing what we know now. Mailloux may never make it to 100 games played but I'll still take the chance on his skill set while trading from a position of strength.

Anything can happen down the road, I'm talking about the value when the deal was made. If you are counting on making bad value trades and them working out anyway you are going to lose that gamble most of the time.

It’s the “currency” of the NHL when talking about value.
22 year ago old RH defenseman in this league are the most valuable commodity in the league except for maybe a center.
Again, Bolduc scored 19 goals…19.
He’s not pacing for 20 goals this year. Bad value trade? Please. It’s the cost of doing business in the NHL.
To judge this trade, much less what Mailloux will be after less than 50 games in the NHL is just idiotic. If the Blues send him down for the rest of the season to get better….I still like the trade in the long run.

Skilles tell me if I'm wrong but having discussed this with you earlier if I have it right.....your position is this trade is a bust no matter what either player does henceforth because in your opinion the whole deal was a bad trade for the Blues when it was made.

Do I have that right?

You have it wrong.
I would trade Bolduc tomorrow and drive him to the airport for a 22 year old RH defenseman with the tools that Mailloux has. It’s a risk, but a risk that is worth taking. It’s the cost of doing business in the NHL.

Just trying to pin Skilles down on precisely what he is saying. Pretty sure this is it.

He's saying the basis for the trade is the trade and no matter how good either player plays henceforth.... the Blues over paid.

It's quite a strange position imo.

Its not strange, its just not your usual "group think" yes I think paying way more than market value in trades is bad...even if you get lucky

Trading a 1st for a 3rd is not good no matter who turns out better.

"Group think"?

So Seward should not have paid for Alaska? Remember "Sewards Folly"

Who the hell cares for what happens "at the time" when the bounty is beyond that?

It's fine you take that position, just don't tell me it's some kind of true judgement of true value.

It's nothing more than a still shot in time.

[dhsux]

I'll weigh in on Mailloux after another 150 NHL games haha

Texted my buddy from Montreal who is a huge Habs fan to ask how he thinks the trade is panning out - for what it's worth, his response:

"Mailloux will be great if he can figure it out - no guarantee though. Bolduc has show flashes but also clearly needs to develop. Pretty even at this point still I think."

Man....he nailed it....and coming from a Habs fan means something.

[skilles]

Bolduc is pacing for less than 20 goals and less than 40 points, I'd still make that trade today knowing what we know now. Mailloux may never make it to 100 games played but I'll still take the chance on his skill set while trading from a position of strength.

Anything can happen down the road, I'm talking about the value when the deal was made. If you are counting on making bad value trades and them working out anyway you are going to lose that gamble most of the time.

It’s the “currency” of the NHL when talking about value.
22 year ago old RH defenseman in this league are the most valuable commodity in the league except for maybe a center.
Again, Bolduc scored 19 goals…19.
He’s not pacing for 20 goals this year. Bad value trade? Please. It’s the cost of doing business in the NHL.
To judge this trade, much less what Mailloux will be after less than 50 games in the NHL is just idiotic. If the Blues send him down for the rest of the season to get better….I still like the trade in the long run.

Skilles tell me if I'm wrong but having discussed this with you earlier if I have it right.....your position is this trade is a bust no matter what either player does henceforth because in your opinion the whole deal was a bad trade for the Blues when it was made.

Do I have that right?

You have it wrong.
I would trade Bolduc tomorrow and drive him to the airport for a 22 year old RH defenseman with the tools that Mailloux has. It’s a risk, but a risk that is worth taking. It’s the cost of doing business in the NHL.

Just trying to pin Skilles down on precisely what he is saying. Pretty sure this is it.

He's saying the basis for the trade is the trade and no matter how good either player plays henceforth.... the Blues over paid.

It's quite a strange position imo.

Its not strange, its just not your usual "group think" yes I think paying way more than market value in trades is bad...even if you get lucky

Trading a 1st for a 3rd is not good no matter who turns out better.

"Group think"?

So Seward should not have paid for Alaska? Remember "Sewards Folly"

Who the hell cares for what happens "at the time" when the bounty is beyond that?

It's fine you take that position, just don't tell me it's some kind of true judgement of true value.

It's nothing more than a still shot in time.

Its a piece of the judgement of this organizations evaluation of d men which is clearly very very poor. Like I'd rather have an average fan make some of the decisions its been so terrible.

I don't mind guys that might be NHL players in 200 games, but you don't trade Bolduc for them then force feed them into the lineup with zero plan for any kind of help on their off side then have to use one of your top 4 to baby sit them and weaken the entire d playing a major role in ruining an entire season. There are plenty of guys that might be good in 200 games but if we are going to do what we are doing the upside needs to be a lot better and more likely than it currently is.

Its an absolute toxic disaster IMO. The standards and accountability is an absolute [shirt] show on this team. Armstrong making a bad trade should not be an ice time factor and it clearly is.

[skilles]

I'd still bet my house had a Habs fan came on here and suggested that trade they would have been laughed at by everyone here.

[callitwhatyouwant]

I'll weigh in on Mailloux after another 150 NHL games haha

Texted my buddy from Montreal who is a huge Habs fan to ask how he thinks the trade is panning out - for what it's worth, his response:

"Mailloux will be great if he can figure it out - no guarantee though. Bolduc has show flashes but also clearly needs to develop. Pretty even at this point still I think."

Man....he nailed it....and coming from a Habs fan means something.

Bolduc was who I put my "fandom" in so I was bummed we traded him. But we traded for a position we needed. We now have multiple young guys trying to make it better. I get it. But I had spent 2.5 years hoping we would call up bolduc to replace perron as our outside shot for the PP. It looked like we figured it out last year. And snuggs/dvo/hollywood were supposed to be the replacement. When all 3 were healthy, PP was good. When 1 person is hurt, PP no good.

Moral of the story. I am a fan of the Blues first. Bolduc I hope rips 50 one year. But I also hope LM becomes a top 4 guy. People on here just want feast and famine so they can troll or whatever some more. I have to ask anyone who wishes LM to be brutal. Are you a Blues fan?

[blackinkbiz]

I'll weigh in on Mailloux after another 150 NHL games haha

Texted my buddy from Montreal who is a huge Habs fan to ask how he thinks the trade is panning out - for what it's worth, his response:

"Mailloux will be great if he can figure it out - no guarantee though. Bolduc has show flashes but also clearly needs to develop. Pretty even at this point still I think."

Man....he nailed it....and coming from a Habs fan means something.

Meh... I have to respectfully disagree. Bolduc's going through another of his cold spells, but a sophomore slump is never surprising no matter how skilled the player. TBS, he's at least helped his team win some games.

Literally not one game can anyone say, "Ohhhh....baby, Logan "Mailed" us a victory on that night!"

Okay, actually, no one should ever say that.

[sneptsmoustache]

I'll weigh in on Mailloux after another 150 NHL games haha

Texted my buddy from Montreal who is a huge Habs fan to ask how he thinks the trade is panning out - for what it's worth, his response:

"Mailloux will be great if he can figure it out - no guarantee though. Bolduc has show flashes but also clearly needs to develop. Pretty even at this point still I think."

Man....he nailed it....and coming from a Habs fan means something.

Meh... I have to respectfully disagree. Bolduc's going through another of his cold spells, but a sophomore slump is never surprising no matter how skilled the player. TBS, he's at least helped his team win some games.

Literally not one game can anyone say, "Ohhhh....baby, Logan "Mailed" us a victory on that night!"

Okay, actually, no one should ever say that.

Oh hell yeah! You just invented his catch phrase! Now he just needs to do something good

[Ziggy3]

I'm rooting for the kid, I really am.

Honestly the whole thing would've been a lot easier to swallow if they'd have done just a minimal amount of work to put him in a better position to succeed. Like I said, I reserved judgment when the trade initially happened because I knew nothing about LM. Then throughout training camp I thought certainly they would be signing some sort of veteran D to fill out the bottom pair with him. I was shocked when the plan was to just roll him out there with Tucker.

That is neither the proper thing to do when your focus is on developing for the future, OR when you have playoff aspirations right now. Starting the season with that bottom pair is just malpractice, I don't care what kind of potential one of them may have, and it's hard to believe that they overestimated his current NHL competency THAT much. If he does put it together among this whole mess, that will really be a credit to him.

[dr0zombie]

I'll weigh in on Mailloux after another 150 NHL games haha

Texted my buddy from Montreal who is a huge Habs fan to ask how he thinks the trade is panning out - for what it's worth, his response:

"Mailloux will be great if he can figure it out - no guarantee though. Bolduc has show flashes but also clearly needs to develop. Pretty even at this point still I think."

That is a pretty spot on assessment. People give Tucker a pass and the guy has 100 NHL games on Mailoux. Mailoux shows flashes of great and bad. At his pace of improvement he is better than Tucker and should pace out to be on the second pair. The only real gap is the offense. He teases that it's there, and then seems to step away. We need the scoring light to kick on in his head.

[Harry S Deals]

I'm rooting for the kid, I really am.

Honestly the whole thing would've been a lot easier to swallow if they'd have done just a minimal amount of work to put him in a better position to succeed. Like I said, I reserved judgment when the trade initially happened because I knew nothing about LM. Then throughout training camp I thought certainly they would be signing some sort of veteran D to fill out the bottom pair with him. I was shocked when the plan was to just roll him out there with Tucker.

That is neither the proper thing to do when your focus is on developing for the future, OR when you have playoff aspirations right now. Starting the season with that bottom pair is just malpractice, I don't care what kind of potential one of them may have, and it's hard to believe that they overestimated his current NHL competency THAT much. If he does put it together among this whole mess, that will really be a credit to him.

For me if you wanted him to be more comfortable and put him in a better position then perhaps Ryan Suter should have been retained. Giving LM a rock solid, vet, LHD partner which would allow him to play his game up ice more and not be stuck defending in his own zone, learning on the job.
A lot of this is of course on the forwards as well, they werent back checking very well and they dont often maintain O zone pressure which would allow LM to play up ice more.

[callitwhatyouwant]

I'll weigh in on Mailloux after another 150 NHL games haha

Texted my buddy from Montreal who is a huge Habs fan to ask how he thinks the trade is panning out - for what it's worth, his response:

"Mailloux will be great if he can figure it out - no guarantee though. Bolduc has show flashes but also clearly needs to develop. Pretty even at this point still I think."

Man....he nailed it....and coming from a Habs fan means something.

Meh... I have to respectfully disagree. Bolduc's going through another of his cold spells, but a sophomore slump is never surprising no matter how skilled the player. TBS, he's at least helped his team win some games.

Literally not one game can anyone say, "Ohhhh....baby, Logan "Mailed" us a victory on that night!"

Okay, actually, no one should ever say that.

I don't think there are any games where you can point to LM being the reason we won, but there were 2 games a month ago back to back where he looked really good. Very noticeable on both ends of the ice and it was actually impressive he didn't register a point because he was that good in the Ozone. He then went and had another terrible game the 3rd game and got the bench after it. I can only remember the game because Joey was singing his praises at the exact time I was like "o this guy is looking good." Then JR said something to Monty after and he applauded him as well. But it was almost automatic that he was going to have another -3 or whatever it was the next game.

[Bluesfan1978]

I've heard countless NHL players say the biggest challenge at the NHL level for a younger player is consistency. Thats why I'm not too worried about Mailloux. I would be much more worried if he wasn't showing flashes of how he could play.

[Ziggy3]

I'll weigh in on Mailloux after another 150 NHL games haha

Texted my buddy from Montreal who is a huge Habs fan to ask how he thinks the trade is panning out - for what it's worth, his response:

"Mailloux will be great if he can figure it out - no guarantee though. Bolduc has show flashes but also clearly needs to develop. Pretty even at this point still I think."

Man....he nailed it....and coming from a Habs fan means something.

Meh... I have to respectfully disagree. Bolduc's going through another of his cold spells, but a sophomore slump is never surprising no matter how skilled the player. TBS, he's at least helped his team win some games.

Literally not one game can anyone say, "Ohhhh....baby, Logan "Mailed" us a victory on that night!"

Okay, actually, no one should ever say that.

I don't think there are any games where you can point to LM being the reason we won, but there were 2 games a month ago back to back where he looked really good. Very noticeable on both ends of the ice and it was actually impressive he didn't register a point because he was that good in the Ozone. He then went and had another terrible game the 3rd game and got the bench after it. I can only remember the game because Joey was singing his praises at the exact time I was like "o this guy is looking good." Then JR said something to Monty after and he applauded him as well. But it was almost automatic that he was going to have another -3 or whatever it was the next game.

Did he look exceptional, though? Or just competent? Not trying to pick on you, and I'm asking honestly, because I've watched most of the games and maybe I missed those, but I haven't seen anything exceptional yet. He has definitely improved in his competency, but IMO it is unusual to see so little in the way of flashes of exceptional play from a player with all the skillset and potential he's purported to have.

I'd do a little mental experiment; if you had no idea where he was drafted, or that he was an AHL all-star or anything, what would you honestly think of him? Just from the eye-test, would you guess at this point that he was a 1st round draft pick, or an AHL all-star? I wouldn't. I'd be more likely to wonder why this guy was playing over someone like Skinner, or even Kessel some nights. What stands out? His composure? Definitely not. His shot? I don't think I would know a thing about his shot if I didn't hear a dozen times from Vitale how he's got a "cannon." But so far I've mostly only heard about it. Maybe his skating would be the thing I'd notice, but only in the sense that he moves well for his size. I can't recall seeing a single Broberg-esque rush or outstanding play he's made to evade pressure with his feet.

He just hasn't made me sit forward in my seat at all yet. That's concerning to me. Yeah, he's in a bad situation, but where's the silver-lining to the almost literally league-worst stats? I don't even need whole games, just some shifts here and there that make me think, "ok, here's what we're hoping for." I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that right now.

[callitwhatyouwant]

I'll weigh in on Mailloux after another 150 NHL games haha

Texted my buddy from Montreal who is a huge Habs fan to ask how he thinks the trade is panning out - for what it's worth, his response:

"Mailloux will be great if he can figure it out - no guarantee though. Bolduc has show flashes but also clearly needs to develop. Pretty even at this point still I think."

Man....he nailed it....and coming from a Habs fan means something.

Meh... I have to respectfully disagree. Bolduc's going through another of his cold spells, but a sophomore slump is never surprising no matter how skilled the player. TBS, he's at least helped his team win some games.

Literally not one game can anyone say, "Ohhhh....baby, Logan "Mailed" us a victory on that night!"

Okay, actually, no one should ever say that.

I don't think there are any games where you can point to LM being the reason we won, but there were 2 games a month ago back to back where he looked really good. Very noticeable on both ends of the ice and it was actually impressive he didn't register a point because he was that good in the Ozone. He then went and had another terrible game the 3rd game and got the bench after it. I can only remember the game because Joey was singing his praises at the exact time I was like "o this guy is looking good." Then JR said something to Monty after and he applauded him as well. But it was almost automatic that he was going to have another -3 or whatever it was the next game.

Did he look exceptional, though? Or just competent? Not trying to pick on you, and I'm asking honestly, because I've watched most of the games and maybe I missed those, but I haven't seen anything exceptional yet. He has definitely improved in his competency, but IMO it is unusual to see so little in the way of flashes of exceptional play from a player with all the skillset and potential he's purported to have.

I'd do a little mental experiment; if you had no idea where he was drafted, or that he was an AHL all-star or anything, what would you honestly think of him? Just from the eye-test, would you guess at this point that he was a 1st round draft pick, or an AHL all-star? I wouldn't. I'd be more likely to wonder why this guy was playing over someone like Skinner, or even Kessel some nights. What stands out? His composure? Definitely not. His shot? I don't think I would know a thing about his shot if I didn't hear a dozen times from Vitale how he's got a "cannon." But so far I've mostly only heard about it. Maybe his skating would be the thing I'd notice, but only in the sense that he moves well for his size. I can't recall seeing a single Broberg-esque rush or outstanding play he's made to evade pressure with his feet.

He just hasn't made me sit forward in my seat at all yet. That's concerning to me. Yeah, he's in a bad situation, but where's the silver-lining to the almost literally league-worst stats? I don't even need whole games, just some shifts here and there that make me think, "ok, here's what we're hoping for." I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that right now.

all good points, to be honest, the couple things that pop out to me the most about him outside of just physical stature is he tends to make good plays on the boards especially when he utilizes his reach with the 1 arm poke/jam plays in the defensive zone. That seems to stand out a lot and it's clearly being coached because the whole defensive core does it to some degree. The other stand out attribute is he isn't afraid to muck it up. Outside of tucker, we don't really have that guy on defense doing that. And for a young guy who is learning and like you said, struggling at the moment, it's nice to see he has some bite to his game.

For the latter about kessel and or skinner? I can say with 100 percent certainty, any time I see kessel and tucker in the lineup together, it's a bit infuriating. That ship has sailed. They have both had multiple seasons (3) to prove their nhl capabilities. While they might one day have their mikkola turnaround, I just don't see it happening in a Blues uniform. I can get on board with 1 of them in the lineup. And they both have shown flashes. But it's very apparent when they both are in the lineup, its going to be a struggle bus. They absolutely cannot move the puck out of our own end. And we have the data to back that up.

My guys thru the farm system over the last 4-5 years that I have been waiting on and excited to watch wear the note. Bolduc (no longer with us) Snuggy and Lindstein. If LM doesn't make it, he doesn't make it.

[MiamiLaw]

I'll weigh in on Mailloux after another 150 NHL games haha

Texted my buddy from Montreal who is a huge Habs fan to ask how he thinks the trade is panning out - for what it's worth, his response:

"Mailloux will be great if he can figure it out - no guarantee though. Bolduc has show flashes but also clearly needs to develop. Pretty even at this point still I think."

Man....he nailed it....and coming from a Habs fan means something.

Meh... I have to respectfully disagree. Bolduc's going through another of his cold spells, but a sophomore slump is never surprising no matter how skilled the player. TBS, he's at least helped his team win some games.

Literally not one game can anyone say, "Ohhhh....baby, Logan "Mailed" us a victory on that night!"

Okay, actually, no one should ever say that.

I don't think there are any games where you can point to LM being the reason we won, but there were 2 games a month ago back to back where he looked really good. Very noticeable on both ends of the ice and it was actually impressive he didn't register a point because he was that good in the Ozone. He then went and had another terrible game the 3rd game and got the bench after it. I can only remember the game because Joey was singing his praises at the exact time I was like "o this guy is looking good." Then JR said something to Monty after and he applauded him as well. But it was almost automatic that he was going to have another -3 or whatever it was the next game.

Did he look exceptional, though? Or just competent? Not trying to pick on you, and I'm asking honestly, because I've watched most of the games and maybe I missed those, but I haven't seen anything exceptional yet. He has definitely improved in his competency, but IMO it is unusual to see so little in the way of flashes of exceptional play from a player with all the skillset and potential he's purported to have.

I'd do a little mental experiment; if you had no idea where he was drafted, or that he was an AHL all-star or anything, what would you honestly think of him? Just from the eye-test, would you guess at this point that he was a 1st round draft pick, or an AHL all-star? I wouldn't. I'd be more likely to wonder why this guy was playing over someone like Skinner, or even Kessel some nights. What stands out? His composure? Definitely not. His shot? I don't think I would know a thing about his shot if I didn't hear a dozen times from Vitale how he's got a "cannon." But so far I've mostly only heard about it. Maybe his skating would be the thing I'd notice, but only in the sense that he moves well for his size. I can't recall seeing a single Broberg-esque rush or outstanding play he's made to evade pressure with his feet.

He just hasn't made me sit forward in my seat at all yet. That's concerning to me. Yeah, he's in a bad situation, but where's the silver-lining to the almost literally league-worst stats? I don't even need whole games, just some shifts here and there that make me think, "ok, here's what we're hoping for." I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that right now.

100%. We are seeing the same thing. I keep seeing everyone say that he has shown flashes of "great" or of what his potential could be, but I frankly have not seen them. He has gotten better than complete liability like he was at first but no way I have seen him do anything I would really describe as "great". You put it perfectly. If we were seeing these flashes of offensive prowess he purportedly has, it would be a lot easier to stomach the undeniably putrid numbers.

Further up in thread people were saying that no one has been critical of Tucker and that LM is clearly better. I disagree on both. Tucker has not been good and plenty of people have pointed that out. But, though he has been bad, his numbers are much better than Mailloux's. From any objective basis, Tucker has been the better player this year and not by a small margin and Kessel has been better than both in his limited time.