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Crav, how many LHPs starters do you really think is prudent, or that they’re likely to go with? In all honesty, I could see our top 5 starters all being left handed. I’m not sure I see that as a problem, other than, I think, lefties are more productive simply because batters see less of them. If the Cardinals have all left handed starters, does actually make them less effective?craviduce wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:17 pmI think the "GO Point" will be when the Rotation becomes strong. We're gathering assets by the bunches right now. And AAA is looking mighty juicy with pitching talent in 2026. Springfield, too, will have the Likes of Doyle and maybe Clarke.2ninr wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:10 pmI understand. I really do. People want to win. But this roster that was put together is incapable of it with the amount of money they would need to spend to make it competitive vs the amount of money they actually have to spend plus the big contracts they already had. They are rebuilding. Hopefully it is a short one.Carp4Cy wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:58 pmThat’s always the excuse for salary dumps. We could have competed in 2027 if Bill was willing to try.2ninr wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:49 pm^^^^^^^.Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:30 pmMo would have kept him got nothing for him and the cardinals would have still missed the playoffs the next two years with him then he would have left with nothing to show in return
Thanks Oz. This really is the truth.
As it is we are getting back long shots and non needle moving role players. Filler and the dreaded innings eaters.
Let's assume for the sake of this exercise we're keeping Libby and McGreevy as future cogs in the rotation....we would need 3 of the following to make it to the BIGs and succeed enough to cement a place in the rotation : Henderson, Mathews, Doyle, Mautz, Clarke, Franklin....3 of the 6. And still having the "next men up" in Memphis.
From there, you can starting trading your piled up assets in Springfield/Peoria for offensive MLB gems for your lineup. I love the potential Wetherholt, but he's not going to be able to do it on his own.
All eyes are on the Pitching prospects, imo....or that's where our eyes should be.
I've had to reexamine "Prudent" recently. That's a great question. We have the Depth....just need to hold on to it for a season or two.Hoosier59 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:26 pmCrav, how many LHPs starters do you really think is prudent, or that they’re likely to go with? In all honesty, I could see our top 5 starters all being left handed. I’m not sure I see that as a problem, other than, I think, lefties are more productive simply because batters see less of them. If the Cardinals have all left handed starters, does actually make them less effective?craviduce wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:17 pmI think the "GO Point" will be when the Rotation becomes strong. We're gathering assets by the bunches right now. And AAA is looking mighty juicy with pitching talent in 2026. Springfield, too, will have the Likes of Doyle and maybe Clarke.2ninr wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:10 pmI understand. I really do. People want to win. But this roster that was put together is incapable of it with the amount of money they would need to spend to make it competitive vs the amount of money they actually have to spend plus the big contracts they already had. They are rebuilding. Hopefully it is a short one.Carp4Cy wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:58 pmThat’s always the excuse for salary dumps. We could have competed in 2027 if Bill was willing to try.2ninr wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:49 pm^^^^^^^.Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:30 pmMo would have kept him got nothing for him and the cardinals would have still missed the playoffs the next two years with him then he would have left with nothing to show in return
Thanks Oz. This really is the truth.
As it is we are getting back long shots and non needle moving role players. Filler and the dreaded innings eaters.
Let's assume for the sake of this exercise we're keeping Libby and McGreevy as future cogs in the rotation....we would need 3 of the following to make it to the BIGs and succeed enough to cement a place in the rotation : Henderson, Mathews, Doyle, Mautz, Clarke, Franklin....3 of the 6. And still having the "next men up" in Memphis.
From there, you can starting trading your piled up assets in Springfield/Peoria for offensive MLB gems for your lineup. I love the potential Wetherholt, but he's not going to be able to do it on his own.
All eyes are on the Pitching prospects, imo....or that's where our eyes should be.
That's still a bit much, yeah?I get it Kyace. There were just some other players I was looking at from Boston that I coveted. I didn’t figure Contreras would get them by himself, but with a couple of other players added, that might have made the difference. Dobbins wasn’t even on my radar. His two ACL tears is troubling, however maybe the other two guys pan out. That won’t be for 3 or 4 years however.kyace wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:25 pm Cardinals got a young controlled MAJOR LEAGUE starter just as good or better than what they have now. Some people want to trade Donovan straight up for a similar pitcher in Cameron. Contreras had little surplus value even after what the Cards are sending back. To get the additional pitchers back is a bonus.
Take a look at what pitchers are getting in free agency now.
Agree completely. Once they get the pitching pipeline settled in, the rest is a much easier chore. I personally think our minor league system will be loaded by the beginning of 2026 season. People need to realize pitching is the most valuable asset there is outside of your superstar stars, Soto, Judge, Ohtani. Im exited, and I think the doubters will be on board shortly.craviduce wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:17 pmI think the "GO Point" will be when the Rotation becomes strong. We're gathering assets by the bunches right now. And AAA is looking mighty juicy with pitching talent in 2026. Springfield, too, will have the Likes of Doyle and maybe Clarke.2ninr wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:10 pmI understand. I really do. People want to win. But this roster that was put together is incapable of it with the amount of money they would need to spend to make it competitive vs the amount of money they actually have to spend plus the big contracts they already had. They are rebuilding. Hopefully it is a short one.Carp4Cy wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:58 pmThat’s always the excuse for salary dumps. We could have competed in 2027 if Bill was willing to try.2ninr wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:49 pm^^^^^^^.Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:30 pmMo would have kept him got nothing for him and the cardinals would have still missed the playoffs the next two years with him then he would have left with nothing to show in return
Thanks Oz. This really is the truth.
As it is we are getting back long shots and non needle moving role players. Filler and the dreaded innings eaters.
Let's assume for the sake of this exercise we're keeping Libby and McGreevy as future cogs in the rotation....we would need 3 of the following to make it to the BIGs and succeed enough to cement a place in the rotation : Henderson, Mathews, Doyle, Mautz, Clarke, Franklin....3 of the 6. And still having the "next men up" in Memphis.
From there, you can starting trading your piled up assets in Springfield/Peoria for offensive MLB gems for your lineup. I love the potential Wetherholt, but he's not going to be able to do it on his own.
All eyes are on the Pitching prospects, imo....or that's where our eyes should be.
YawnBleedingBleu wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:21 pmConsidering Mo failed his one goal in the 2024/5 offseason; which was to trade Arenado. This is at least a C, because no one will be contributing to the Major League club for possibly 2 yearsscoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:00 pm So Bloom gets what? A (C) for this trade?
This is a nothing move
I agree. However, you could argue Contreras may not contribute, either. He could get injured in Spring Training and never step on the field for the Red Sox for 2026, then the Owners lock out the players for all 2027.scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:34 pmYawnBleedingBleu wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:21 pmConsidering Mo failed his one goal in the 2024/5 offseason; which was to trade Arenado. This is at least a C, because no one will be contributing to the Major League club for possibly 2 yearsscoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:00 pm So Bloom gets what? A (C) for this trade?
This is a nothing move
Like anything that has transpired, will be contributing
I like McGreevy, hopefully he will keep improving. The problem is I also really like Henderson, Mautz, Doyle, Matthews, and Hansen.craviduce wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:30 pmI've had to reexamine "Prudent" recently. That's a great question. We have the Depth....just need to hold on to it for a season or two.Hoosier59 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:26 pmCrav, how many LHPs starters do you really think is prudent, or that they’re likely to go with? In all honesty, I could see our top 5 starters all being left handed. I’m not sure I see that as a problem, other than, I think, lefties are more productive simply because batters see less of them. If the Cardinals have all left handed starters, does actually make them less effective?craviduce wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:17 pmI think the "GO Point" will be when the Rotation becomes strong. We're gathering assets by the bunches right now. And AAA is looking mighty juicy with pitching talent in 2026. Springfield, too, will have the Likes of Doyle and maybe Clarke.2ninr wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:10 pmI understand. I really do. People want to win. But this roster that was put together is incapable of it with the amount of money they would need to spend to make it competitive vs the amount of money they actually have to spend plus the big contracts they already had. They are rebuilding. Hopefully it is a short one.Carp4Cy wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:58 pmThat’s always the excuse for salary dumps. We could have competed in 2027 if Bill was willing to try.2ninr wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:49 pm^^^^^^^.Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:30 pmMo would have kept him got nothing for him and the cardinals would have still missed the playoffs the next two years with him then he would have left with nothing to show in return
Thanks Oz. This really is the truth.
As it is we are getting back long shots and non needle moving role players. Filler and the dreaded innings eaters.
Let's assume for the sake of this exercise we're keeping Libby and McGreevy as future cogs in the rotation....we would need 3 of the following to make it to the BIGs and succeed enough to cement a place in the rotation : Henderson, Mathews, Doyle, Mautz, Clarke, Franklin....3 of the 6. And still having the "next men up" in Memphis.
From there, you can starting trading your piled up assets in Springfield/Peoria for offensive MLB gems for your lineup. I love the potential Wetherholt, but he's not going to be able to do it on his own.
All eyes are on the Pitching prospects, imo....or that's where our eyes should be.
And, honestly, I think McGreevy is a mainstain. He's a workhorse, he has never been hurt. He's going to give you 3.5-4.5 ERA every season and consume at least 170 IP....that means we'll have 4 LHP
I think we'll see some interesting trades in the 2027 offseason....trade from our depth. And who knows, Franklin might just come on strong in 2026 in the minors. Our RHP needs him to come on strong.
I hope the attendance goes below 2 mil.Midrange Jay wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:01 pm Got to get that payroll back below $30 million, with the May signing.
Mo failed at everything except being a pompous blowhard. At least Bloom is making moves. This is the time of year that Mo proclaimed he "liked what he had". Then he would lock himself away and sip wine coolers and watch Lifetime Network movies with Girsch. What a putz.BleedingBleu wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:21 pmConsidering Mo failed his one goal in the 2024/5 offseason; which was to trade Arenado. This is at least a C, because no one will be contributing to the Major League club for possibly 2 yearsscoutyjones2 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:00 pm So Bloom gets what? A (C) for this trade?
This is a nothing move
If all the LHP prospects are "ready" by 2027, then we'll likely trade from that depth. I don't think they'll all be ready, though. We only need 3 of them to be "ready". I think Mautz will initially struggle with AAA hitting. Too many good players at that level, including veterans trying to get back into the Majors. He has some history giving up the long ball, I think he'll initially struggle there. Henderson, imo, will likely have a high 3 to low 4 ERA, but that's not a bad thing....again, better hitters in AAA. We, thankfully have quite a bit of MLB depth for the 2026 rotation, so the kids in Memphis can stay there and develop, no pressure on them to succeed early on...I do hope 1 or 2 of them, especially Mathews, is lights out in April and May.Hoosier59 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:41 pmI like McGreevy, hopefully he will keep improving. The problem is I also really like Henderson, Mautz, Doyle, Matthews, and Hansen.craviduce wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:30 pmI've had to reexamine "Prudent" recently. That's a great question. We have the Depth....just need to hold on to it for a season or two.Hoosier59 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:26 pmCrav, how many LHPs starters do you really think is prudent, or that they’re likely to go with? In all honesty, I could see our top 5 starters all being left handed. I’m not sure I see that as a problem, other than, I think, lefties are more productive simply because batters see less of them. If the Cardinals have all left handed starters, does actually make them less effective?craviduce wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:17 pmI think the "GO Point" will be when the Rotation becomes strong. We're gathering assets by the bunches right now. And AAA is looking mighty juicy with pitching talent in 2026. Springfield, too, will have the Likes of Doyle and maybe Clarke.2ninr wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 20:10 pmI understand. I really do. People want to win. But this roster that was put together is incapable of it with the amount of money they would need to spend to make it competitive vs the amount of money they actually have to spend plus the big contracts they already had. They are rebuilding. Hopefully it is a short one.Carp4Cy wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:58 pmThat’s always the excuse for salary dumps. We could have competed in 2027 if Bill was willing to try.2ninr wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:49 pm^^^^^^^.Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:30 pmMo would have kept him got nothing for him and the cardinals would have still missed the playoffs the next two years with him then he would have left with nothing to show in return
Thanks Oz. This really is the truth.
As it is we are getting back long shots and non needle moving role players. Filler and the dreaded innings eaters.
Let's assume for the sake of this exercise we're keeping Libby and McGreevy as future cogs in the rotation....we would need 3 of the following to make it to the BIGs and succeed enough to cement a place in the rotation : Henderson, Mathews, Doyle, Mautz, Clarke, Franklin....3 of the 6. And still having the "next men up" in Memphis.
From there, you can starting trading your piled up assets in Springfield/Peoria for offensive MLB gems for your lineup. I love the potential Wetherholt, but he's not going to be able to do it on his own.
All eyes are on the Pitching prospects, imo....or that's where our eyes should be.
And, honestly, I think McGreevy is a mainstain. He's a workhorse, he has never been hurt. He's going to give you 3.5-4.5 ERA every season and consume at least 170 IP....that means we'll have 4 LHP
I think we'll see some interesting trades in the 2027 offseason....trade from our depth. And who knows, Franklin might just come on strong in 2026 in the minors. Our RHP needs him to come on strong.
I know you aren’t as high on Hansen, and I don’t think his ceiling is as high either, but he pitches different than the others do, and that might help him as time goes on.
Because of these guys that we already have, is kind of why I don’t like the Contreras trade. The two young guys are ok, but I was hoping for a bat in place of Dobbins. Dobbins might be needed in 2026, if he’s healthy, but what then if all these lefties are ready.