STLtoday.com

rockondlouie wrote: ↑04 Dec 2025 09:46 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Dec 2025 09:00 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑04 Dec 2025 08:45 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 15:38 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 10:13 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 09:12 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 09:08 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 09:02 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 08:58 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 08:49 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 08:41 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 14:41 pm

I don’t get it. I can see brute force. I can see it in football. I can see it helping runners who run . I can see throwing longer more often.

I don’t see how it helps the actual art of hitting a baseball. Or laying off sweepers. Pitch recognition. That I don’t see.

Bigger, Stronger, Faster.............players a that has allowed them to rise to the top (re: major leagues)being able to hit a baseball better than 99.9% of the world's population.

Combine that natural talent w/a Bigger, Stronger, Faster human being and you get an unnatural response.

Re:
East Germany & Russian's in the Olympics before steroids were banned.

Laying off sweepers, pitch recognition, ect....they already had or they would've never made it to MLB.

Now make them artificially BIGGER & STRONGER and well..............think massive BIG MAC, pumped up BAR-ROID and 165 lb S. Sosa balloning up to 225 lbs.

Also helps pitcher throw harder (re: BIGGER & STRONGER) as well as recover quicker.

Steroids is CHEATING, there is no gray area.

Didn’t the older players live off amphetamines. I’m not disputing the advantage aspect. I’m saying that baseball has always been a cheaters sport, always looking for an edge- spit balls, pine tar, etc. so it seems the players attempted to level their own playing field.

And again, my original beef- how does it help putting wood to baseball. The actual art of a hit.

Question for fun. Give me a 26 man roster of juicers for a 162 game stretch and you get?

Greenies do NOT Make you BIGGER, STRONGER or FASTER, nor do they help pitchers recover.

They're a stimulate, well known among the military who's members were known to use them when on long watch, on the march, ect...

But they didn't make them BIGGER or STRONGER than they naturally were, steroids do and it's a proven fact.

As to you original beef, I answered that above:

Players who reach MLB are already naturally blessed w/the ability to hit a baseball, identify and layoff pitches or they would've never made it to the majors.

Now combine that natural talent w/steroids and you've got an unnatural BIGGER & STRONGER player.

Think back to your Little League days, the bigger and stronger kid always could hit the ball the furthest.

Then why is it some get greatness, many stay the same. Seems the enhancement affects a few that way.

Is the answer- it pushes one to the limit of their potential. The great will get greater, the good stay good, the mediocre stay minimal.

Goes back to that natural talent BDog.

Steroids wouldn't turn Victor Scott III into Mookie Betts, he doesn't have Betts natural talent.

But he might hit 5 more HR's and steal 20 more bases............making him a more money thus the motivation.

You still have to have the natural talent, steroids only enhance that talent by making you bigger and stronger.

B. Bonds had it, so did Big Mac.............make them Marvel movie size and they do unnatural things!

Very well. It almost polished a players abilities. At what ever talent level, the enhancement was only able to be As effective up to the athletes natural abilities.

Bingo

It took B. Bonds from being a perennial 35-40 HR/.979 OPS natural hitter (and 1st ballot Hall of Famer) and turned him into a freak who hit 73 HR's one season and had a 1.368 OPS from age 36 - 39 an age when a non steroid cheater would see significant decline.

BTW, there has also been suggestions by some in the medical community that PED's also enhance vision which could of course help hitters identify pitches much quicker.

The .979 Bonds was a certain HOFer……the enhanced Bonds was a supernatural freak that we will never see again in our lifetime. And I’m glad I was alive to watch McGwire hit moon shots during batting practice, again I’l probably never see it again. That HR chase season between he and Sosa brought baseball back. The ensuing yrs of amazing offensive stats propelled the game to new heights. ITS ENTERTAINMENT……
If anyone here can honestly say they weren’t entertained during that time…..you have must have some serious dead ball love.
And again the outrage over steroids is comical when other forms of cheating have landed guys in the HOF….a little hypocritical wouldn’t you say??

1st ballot easily since he'd likely had been the only 500 HR/500 SB player in MLB history.

And nothing "comical" at all keeping these scumbags out of the HofF.

BUT

I want FAIR competition GF.

If I want entertainment, then I'll go to a movie, concert, ect........

You want fair competition.

What says these players didn’t wanted the same, and to compete against those that were using and showing a level of dominance, their attempts to use was a mere leveling of the playing field. If any one knows the truth, it’s the players.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

It's still cheating BDog and I have no doubt a lot of PED users did them exactly for the reason you laid out but that then makes them cheats as well.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Dec 2025 09:56 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑04 Dec 2025 09:46 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Dec 2025 09:00 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑04 Dec 2025 08:45 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 15:38 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 10:13 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 09:12 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 09:08 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 09:02 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 08:58 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 08:49 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 08:41 am


Bigger, Stronger, Faster.............players a that has allowed them to rise to the top (re: major leagues)being able to hit a baseball better than 99.9% of the world's population.

Combine that natural talent w/a Bigger, Stronger, Faster human being and you get an unnatural response.

Re:
East Germany & Russian's in the Olympics before steroids were banned.

Laying off sweepers, pitch recognition, ect....they already had or they would've never made it to MLB.

Now make them artificially BIGGER & STRONGER and well..............think massive BIG MAC, pumped up BAR-ROID and 165 lb S. Sosa balloning up to 225 lbs.

Also helps pitcher throw harder (re: BIGGER & STRONGER) as well as recover quicker.

Steroids is CHEATING, there is no gray area.

Didn’t the older players live off amphetamines. I’m not disputing the advantage aspect. I’m saying that baseball has always been a cheaters sport, always looking for an edge- spit balls, pine tar, etc. so it seems the players attempted to level their own playing field.

And again, my original beef- how does it help putting wood to baseball. The actual art of a hit.

Question for fun. Give me a 26 man roster of juicers for a 162 game stretch and you get?

Greenies do NOT Make you BIGGER, STRONGER or FASTER, nor do they help pitchers recover.

They're a stimulate, well known among the military who's members were known to use them when on long watch, on the march, ect...

But they didn't make them BIGGER or STRONGER than they naturally were, steroids do and it's a proven fact.

As to you original beef, I answered that above:

Players who reach MLB are already naturally blessed w/the ability to hit a baseball, identify and layoff pitches or they would've never made it to the majors.

Now combine that natural talent w/steroids and you've got an unnatural BIGGER & STRONGER player.

Think back to your Little League days, the bigger and stronger kid always could hit the ball the furthest.

Then why is it some get greatness, many stay the same. Seems the enhancement affects a few that way.

Is the answer- it pushes one to the limit of their potential. The great will get greater, the good stay good, the mediocre stay minimal.

Goes back to that natural talent BDog.

Steroids wouldn't turn Victor Scott III into Mookie Betts, he doesn't have Betts natural talent.

But he might hit 5 more HR's and steal 20 more bases............making him a more money thus the motivation.

You still have to have the natural talent, steroids only enhance that talent by making you bigger and stronger.

B. Bonds had it, so did Big Mac.............make them Marvel movie size and they do unnatural things!

Very well. It almost polished a players abilities. At what ever talent level, the enhancement was only able to be As effective up to the athletes natural abilities.

Bingo

It took B. Bonds from being a perennial 35-40 HR/.979 OPS natural hitter (and 1st ballot Hall of Famer) and turned him into a freak who hit 73 HR's one season and had a 1.368 OPS from age 36 - 39 an age when a non steroid cheater would see significant decline.

BTW, there has also been suggestions by some in the medical community that PED's also enhance vision which could of course help hitters identify pitches much quicker.

The .979 Bonds was a certain HOFer……the enhanced Bonds was a supernatural freak that we will never see again in our lifetime. And I’m glad I was alive to watch McGwire hit moon shots during batting practice, again I’l probably never see it again. That HR chase season between he and Sosa brought baseball back. The ensuing yrs of amazing offensive stats propelled the game to new heights. ITS ENTERTAINMENT……
If anyone here can honestly say they weren’t entertained during that time…..you have must have some serious dead ball love.
And again the outrage over steroids is comical when other forms of cheating have landed guys in the HOF….a little hypocritical wouldn’t you say??

1st ballot easily since he'd likely had been the only 500 HR/500 SB player in MLB history.

And nothing "comical" at all keeping these scumbags out of the HofF.

BUT

I want FAIR competition GF.

If I want entertainment, then I'll go to a movie, concert, ect........

You want fair competition.

What says these players didn’t wanted the same, and to compete against those that were using and showing a level of dominance, their attempts to use was a mere leveling of the playing field. If any one knows the truth, it’s the players.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

It's still cheating BDog and I have no doubt a lot of PED users did them exactly for the reason you laid out but that then makes them cheats as well.

That’s true. Cheats as well.

Does it ever get to the point that the cheating ones benefit at the non users extent. For instance, the non cheaters simply become fillers in a game of ultra humans.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑04 Dec 2025 10:01 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Dec 2025 09:56 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑04 Dec 2025 09:46 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Dec 2025 09:00 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑04 Dec 2025 08:45 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 15:38 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 10:13 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 09:12 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 09:08 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 09:02 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 08:58 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 08:49 am

Didn’t the older players live off amphetamines. I’m not disputing the advantage aspect. I’m saying that baseball has always been a cheaters sport, always looking for an edge- spit balls, pine tar, etc. so it seems the players attempted to level their own playing field.

And again, my original beef- how does it help putting wood to baseball. The actual art of a hit.

Question for fun. Give me a 26 man roster of juicers for a 162 game stretch and you get?

Greenies do NOT Make you BIGGER, STRONGER or FASTER, nor do they help pitchers recover.

They're a stimulate, well known among the military who's members were known to use them when on long watch, on the march, ect...

But they didn't make them BIGGER or STRONGER than they naturally were, steroids do and it's a proven fact.

As to you original beef, I answered that above:

Players who reach MLB are already naturally blessed w/the ability to hit a baseball, identify and layoff pitches or they would've never made it to the majors.

Now combine that natural talent w/steroids and you've got an unnatural BIGGER & STRONGER player.

Think back to your Little League days, the bigger and stronger kid always could hit the ball the furthest.

Then why is it some get greatness, many stay the same. Seems the enhancement affects a few that way.

Is the answer- it pushes one to the limit of their potential. The great will get greater, the good stay good, the mediocre stay minimal.

Goes back to that natural talent BDog.

Steroids wouldn't turn Victor Scott III into Mookie Betts, he doesn't have Betts natural talent.

But he might hit 5 more HR's and steal 20 more bases............making him a more money thus the motivation.

You still have to have the natural talent, steroids only enhance that talent by making you bigger and stronger.

B. Bonds had it, so did Big Mac.............make them Marvel movie size and they do unnatural things!

Very well. It almost polished a players abilities. At what ever talent level, the enhancement was only able to be As effective up to the athletes natural abilities.

Bingo

It took B. Bonds from being a perennial 35-40 HR/.979 OPS natural hitter (and 1st ballot Hall of Famer) and turned him into a freak who hit 73 HR's one season and had a 1.368 OPS from age 36 - 39 an age when a non steroid cheater would see significant decline.

BTW, there has also been suggestions by some in the medical community that PED's also enhance vision which could of course help hitters identify pitches much quicker.

The .979 Bonds was a certain HOFer……the enhanced Bonds was a supernatural freak that we will never see again in our lifetime. And I’m glad I was alive to watch McGwire hit moon shots during batting practice, again I’l probably never see it again. That HR chase season between he and Sosa brought baseball back. The ensuing yrs of amazing offensive stats propelled the game to new heights. ITS ENTERTAINMENT……
If anyone here can honestly say they weren’t entertained during that time…..you have must have some serious dead ball love.
And again the outrage over steroids is comical when other forms of cheating have landed guys in the HOF….a little hypocritical wouldn’t you say??

1st ballot easily since he'd likely had been the only 500 HR/500 SB player in MLB history.

And nothing "comical" at all keeping these scumbags out of the HofF.

BUT

I want FAIR competition GF.

If I want entertainment, then I'll go to a movie, concert, ect........

You want fair competition.

What says these players didn’t wanted the same, and to compete against those that were using and showing a level of dominance, their attempts to use was a mere leveling of the playing field. If any one knows the truth, it’s the players.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

It's still cheating BDog and I have no doubt a lot of PED users did them exactly for the reason you laid out but that then makes them cheats as well.

That’s true. Cheats as well.

Does it ever get to the point that the cheating ones benefit at the non users extent. For instance, the non cheaters simply become fillers in a game of ultra humans.

Sure

I'd bet there were dozens of players who never really go their shot because they were blocked by PED cheaters which probably led to so many minor leaguers getting busted for PED use as well.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑04 Dec 2025 08:45 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 15:38 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 10:13 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 09:12 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 09:08 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 09:02 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 08:58 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 08:49 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 Dec 2025 08:41 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 14:41 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 14:32 pm After all these years it still amazes how some just don't get what using steroids does to make a player (hitter, runner and pitcher) better than what they NATURALLY would be.

I don’t get it. I can see brute force. I can see it in football. I can see it helping runners who run . I can see throwing longer more often.

I don’t see how it helps the actual art of hitting a baseball. Or laying off sweepers. Pitch recognition. That I don’t see.

Bigger, Stronger, Faster.............players a that has allowed them to rise to the top (re: major leagues)being able to hit a baseball better than 99.9% of the world's population.

Combine that natural talent w/a Bigger, Stronger, Faster human being and you get an unnatural response.

Re:
East Germany & Russian's in the Olympics before steroids were banned.

Laying off sweepers, pitch recognition, ect....they already had or they would've never made it to MLB.

Now make them artificially BIGGER & STRONGER and well..............think massive BIG MAC, pumped up BAR-ROID and 165 lb S. Sosa balloning up to 225 lbs.

Also helps pitcher throw harder (re: BIGGER & STRONGER) as well as recover quicker.

Steroids is CHEATING, there is no gray area.

Didn’t the older players live off amphetamines. I’m not disputing the advantage aspect. I’m saying that baseball has always been a cheaters sport, always looking for an edge- spit balls, pine tar, etc. so it seems the players attempted to level their own playing field.

And again, my original beef- how does it help putting wood to baseball. The actual art of a hit.

Question for fun. Give me a 26 man roster of juicers for a 162 game stretch and you get?

Greenies do NOT Make you BIGGER, STRONGER or FASTER, nor do they help pitchers recover.

They're a stimulate, well known among the military who's members were known to use them when on long watch, on the march, ect...

But they didn't make them BIGGER or STRONGER than they naturally were, steroids do and it's a proven fact.

As to you original beef, I answered that above:

Players who reach MLB are already naturally blessed w/the ability to hit a baseball, identify and layoff pitches or they would've never made it to the majors.

Now combine that natural talent w/steroids and you've got an unnatural BIGGER & STRONGER player.

Think back to your Little League days, the bigger and stronger kid always could hit the ball the furthest.

Then why is it some get greatness, many stay the same. Seems the enhancement affects a few that way.

Is the answer- it pushes one to the limit of their potential. The great will get greater, the good stay good, the mediocre stay minimal.

Goes back to that natural talent BDog.

Steroids wouldn't turn Victor Scott III into Mookie Betts, he doesn't have Betts natural talent.

But he might hit 5 more HR's and steal 20 more bases............making him a more money thus the motivation.

You still have to have the natural talent, steroids only enhance that talent by making you bigger and stronger.

B. Bonds had it, so did Big Mac.............make them Marvel movie size and they do unnatural things!

Very well. It almost polished a players abilities. At what ever talent level, the enhancement was only able to be As effective up to the athletes natural abilities.

Bingo

It took B. Bonds from being a perennial 35-40 HR/.979 OPS natural hitter (and 1st ballot Hall of Famer) and turned him into a freak who hit 73 HR's one season and had a 1.368 OPS from age 36 - 39 an age when a non steroid cheater would see significant decline.

BTW, there has also been suggestions by some in the medical community that PED's also enhance vision which could of course help hitters identify pitches much quicker.

The .979 Bonds was a certain HOFer……the enhanced Bonds was a supernatural freak that we will never see again in our lifetime. And I’m glad I was alive to watch McGwire hit moon shots during batting practice, again I’l probably never see it again. That HR chase season between he and Sosa brought baseball back. The ensuing yrs of amazing offensive stats propelled the game to new heights. ITS ENTERTAINMENT……
If anyone here can honestly say they weren’t entertained during that time…..you have must have some serious dead ball love.
And again the outrage over steroids is comical when other forms of cheating have landed guys in the HOF….a little hypocritical wouldn’t you say??

1st ballot easily since he'd likely had been the only 500 HR/500 SB player in MLB history.

And nothing "comical" at all keeping these scumbags out of the HofF.

BUT

I want FAIR competition GF.

If I want entertainment, then I'll go to a movie, concert, ect........