Hate to think this but we aren't far from Royals territory

[ScotchMIrish]

The made a lot of upgrades at the deadline in 2011 fixed most of their weaknesses. They also had pujols berkman holliday and a rotation headed by carpenter and a hall of
Fame manager. If the cardinals made the post season next season they would have a murderers row of walker and Gorman lol a rotation headed by who? And lead by oli lol that would be the fastest one and done series ever

Exactly they didn't dump. Wild card team won the WS. Contrast that with the current attitude that wild card isn't good enough.

The 2011 team had pieces worth trading for to try to win with a cy young caliber ace pujols Berkman Holliday a hall of fame manager yea you Ride with that. You want them to trade prospects to ride with a fearsome middle of the order of Gorman and walker and gray as your big ace and freaking oli as manger lol that would be pretty dumb

I'd like to see us try to win instead of quitting midway through the season when we have a chance to make the playoff. Like we did in 2006 and 2011.

You need to have a team and manager who can win comparing what they have now to 2006 and 2011 is insane. You view it only as oh but but but look at the win totals lol the 2006 team was a great team that injury problems and got
Healthy at the right time Edmonds even took exception to people saying they just got hot at the right time on a podcast he said no they got healthy at the right time and it was a great team. The 2011 team was good they were just missing a few pieces and fixed them at the deadline just like the braves did a few years ago. This team has no middle of the order it has no ace it has nothing that can remotely say one or two moves and this team can go deep

What "stars" will we have next season? Do we dump again even if we are winning because we don't have "star power"? The star was Pujols and Matheny took us to the playoff 4 times without Pujols - and a world series.

lol the team missed the playoffs 3 straight times with MM at the helm then went to the post season 4 straight times once they dumped him. The 2013 team that went to the World Series had 4 .300 hitters one .296 hitter one .284 hitter and one .276 hitter and a rotation that had 2 15 game winners and a 19 game winner the 2015 team had historically good pitching. MM wanted to get wacha into the post season so brought him in to get the cardinals eliminated

Scoreboard

LaRussa's final 6 seasons with Pujols
2006 - 83
2007 - 78
2008 - 86
2009 - 91
2010 - 86
2011 - 90
________
514

Matheny's 6 seasons without Pujols
2012 - 88
2013 - 97
2014 - 90
2015 - 100
2016 - 86
2017 - 83
________
544

LaRussa's first 6 seasons without Pujols
1996 - 88
1997 - 73
1998 - 83
1999 - 75
2000 - 95
2001 - 93
________
507

6 seasons after Matheny
2019 - 91
covid 30-28 extrapolate to 162 = 84
2021 - 90
2022 - 93
2023 - 71
2024 - 83
________
512

Not one smart baseball mind would buy into this logic.

How about this? The first manager in the history of MLB to make the playoffs each of his first 4 seasons. Prior to 2011 LaRussa had made the playoffs 1 time in the previous 4 seasons and was swept by Torre and the Dodgers with Pujols on the roster. Took LaRussa 8 years to get to the WS. Took Matheny 2. No Pujols on the roster.

Help me out.

I think you’re beyond help, but if one player made that big of a difference, then the Angels would’ve dominated the AL for years w Ohtani and Trout.

Matheny made the WS in year 2, but he inherited a WS champ team, a farm system loaded with arms, and three quasi managers in Yadi, Waino and Chris Carpenter. Not to mention the signing of Beltran and maturation from Craig and Carpenter…

So this correlation using Pujols is not one any smart baseball mind would agree with. Because one great baseball player doesn’t carry an entire team. This isn’t the NBA….

And the angels would have started winning the World Series and making it to post season as soon as they got pujols

Swanson and Inciarte for Shelby Miller was as bad or worse than anything Mozeliak did. #1 overall pick and a legitimate leadoff man for Shelby Miller.

[ecleme22]

Exactly they didn't dump. Wild card team won the WS. Contrast that with the current attitude that wild card isn't good enough.

The 2011 team had pieces worth trading for to try to win with a cy young caliber ace pujols Berkman Holliday a hall of fame manager yea you Ride with that. You want them to trade prospects to ride with a fearsome middle of the order of Gorman and walker and gray as your big ace and freaking oli as manger lol that would be pretty dumb

I'd like to see us try to win instead of quitting midway through the season when we have a chance to make the playoff. Like we did in 2006 and 2011.

You need to have a team and manager who can win comparing what they have now to 2006 and 2011 is insane. You view it only as oh but but but look at the win totals lol the 2006 team was a great team that injury problems and got
Healthy at the right time Edmonds even took exception to people saying they just got hot at the right time on a podcast he said no they got healthy at the right time and it was a great team. The 2011 team was good they were just missing a few pieces and fixed them at the deadline just like the braves did a few years ago. This team has no middle of the order it has no ace it has nothing that can remotely say one or two moves and this team can go deep

What "stars" will we have next season? Do we dump again even if we are winning because we don't have "star power"? The star was Pujols and Matheny took us to the playoff 4 times without Pujols - and a world series.

lol the team missed the playoffs 3 straight times with MM at the helm then went to the post season 4 straight times once they dumped him. The 2013 team that went to the World Series had 4 .300 hitters one .296 hitter one .284 hitter and one .276 hitter and a rotation that had 2 15 game winners and a 19 game winner the 2015 team had historically good pitching. MM wanted to get wacha into the post season so brought him in to get the cardinals eliminated

Scoreboard

LaRussa's final 6 seasons with Pujols
2006 - 83
2007 - 78
2008 - 86
2009 - 91
2010 - 86
2011 - 90
________
514

Matheny's 6 seasons without Pujols
2012 - 88
2013 - 97
2014 - 90
2015 - 100
2016 - 86
2017 - 83
________
544

LaRussa's first 6 seasons without Pujols
1996 - 88
1997 - 73
1998 - 83
1999 - 75
2000 - 95
2001 - 93
________
507

6 seasons after Matheny
2019 - 91
covid 30-28 extrapolate to 162 = 84
2021 - 90
2022 - 93
2023 - 71
2024 - 83
________
512

Not one smart baseball mind would buy into this logic.

How about this? The first manager in the history of MLB to make the playoffs each of his first 4 seasons. Prior to 2011 LaRussa had made the playoffs 1 time in the previous 4 seasons and was swept by Torre and the Dodgers with Pujols on the roster. Took LaRussa 8 years to get to the WS. Took Matheny 2. No Pujols on the roster.

Help me out.

I think you’re beyond help, but if one player made that big of a difference, then the Angels would’ve dominated the AL for years w Ohtani and Trout.

Matheny made the WS in year 2, but he inherited a WS champ team, a farm system loaded with arms, and three quasi managers in Yadi, Waino and Chris Carpenter. Not to mention the signing of Beltran and maturation from Craig and Carpenter…

So this correlation using Pujols is not one any smart baseball mind would agree with. Because one great baseball player doesn’t carry an entire team. This isn’t the NBA….

And the angels would have started winning the World Series and making it to post season as soon as they got pujols

Swanson and Inciarte for Shelby Miller was as bad or worse than anything Mozeliak did. #1 overall pick and a legitimate leadoff man for Shelby Miller.

Deflection alert…

[Ozziesfan41]

Exactly they didn't dump. Wild card team won the WS. Contrast that with the current attitude that wild card isn't good enough.

The 2011 team had pieces worth trading for to try to win with a cy young caliber ace pujols Berkman Holliday a hall of fame manager yea you Ride with that. You want them to trade prospects to ride with a fearsome middle of the order of Gorman and walker and gray as your big ace and freaking oli as manger lol that would be pretty dumb

I'd like to see us try to win instead of quitting midway through the season when we have a chance to make the playoff. Like we did in 2006 and 2011.

You need to have a team and manager who can win comparing what they have now to 2006 and 2011 is insane. You view it only as oh but but but look at the win totals lol the 2006 team was a great team that injury problems and got
Healthy at the right time Edmonds even took exception to people saying they just got hot at the right time on a podcast he said no they got healthy at the right time and it was a great team. The 2011 team was good they were just missing a few pieces and fixed them at the deadline just like the braves did a few years ago. This team has no middle of the order it has no ace it has nothing that can remotely say one or two moves and this team can go deep

What "stars" will we have next season? Do we dump again even if we are winning because we don't have "star power"? The star was Pujols and Matheny took us to the playoff 4 times without Pujols - and a world series.

lol the team missed the playoffs 3 straight times with MM at the helm then went to the post season 4 straight times once they dumped him. The 2013 team that went to the World Series had 4 .300 hitters one .296 hitter one .284 hitter and one .276 hitter and a rotation that had 2 15 game winners and a 19 game winner the 2015 team had historically good pitching. MM wanted to get wacha into the post season so brought him in to get the cardinals eliminated

Scoreboard

LaRussa's final 6 seasons with Pujols
2006 - 83
2007 - 78
2008 - 86
2009 - 91
2010 - 86
2011 - 90
________
514

Matheny's 6 seasons without Pujols
2012 - 88
2013 - 97
2014 - 90
2015 - 100
2016 - 86
2017 - 83
________
544

LaRussa's first 6 seasons without Pujols
1996 - 88
1997 - 73
1998 - 83
1999 - 75
2000 - 95
2001 - 93
________
507

6 seasons after Matheny
2019 - 91
covid 30-28 extrapolate to 162 = 84
2021 - 90
2022 - 93
2023 - 71
2024 - 83
________
512

Not one smart baseball mind would buy into this logic.

How about this? The first manager in the history of MLB to make the playoffs each of his first 4 seasons. Prior to 2011 LaRussa had made the playoffs 1 time in the previous 4 seasons and was swept by Torre and the Dodgers with Pujols on the roster. Took LaRussa 8 years to get to the WS. Took Matheny 2. No Pujols on the roster.

Help me out.

I think you’re beyond help, but if one player made that big of a difference, then the Angels would’ve dominated the AL for years w Ohtani and Trout.

Matheny made the WS in year 2, but he inherited a WS champ team, a farm system loaded with arms, and three quasi managers in Yadi, Waino and Chris Carpenter. Not to mention the signing of Beltran and maturation from Craig and Carpenter…

So this correlation using Pujols is not one any smart baseball mind would agree with. Because one great baseball player doesn’t carry an entire team. This isn’t the NBA….

And the angels would have started winning the World Series and making it to post season as soon as they got pujols

Swanson and Inciarte for Shelby Miller was as bad or worse than anything Mozeliak did. #1 overall pick and a legitimate leadoff man for Shelby Miller.

What does that have to do with his managing?
And again what does that have to do with the angels didn’t start winning the World Series as soon as they got pujols?

[ScotchMIrish]

The 2011 team had pieces worth trading for to try to win with a cy young caliber ace pujols Berkman Holliday a hall of fame manager yea you Ride with that. You want them to trade prospects to ride with a fearsome middle of the order of Gorman and walker and gray as your big ace and freaking oli as manger lol that would be pretty dumb

I'd like to see us try to win instead of quitting midway through the season when we have a chance to make the playoff. Like we did in 2006 and 2011.

You need to have a team and manager who can win comparing what they have now to 2006 and 2011 is insane. You view it only as oh but but but look at the win totals lol the 2006 team was a great team that injury problems and got
Healthy at the right time Edmonds even took exception to people saying they just got hot at the right time on a podcast he said no they got healthy at the right time and it was a great team. The 2011 team was good they were just missing a few pieces and fixed them at the deadline just like the braves did a few years ago. This team has no middle of the order it has no ace it has nothing that can remotely say one or two moves and this team can go deep

What "stars" will we have next season? Do we dump again even if we are winning because we don't have "star power"? The star was Pujols and Matheny took us to the playoff 4 times without Pujols - and a world series.

lol the team missed the playoffs 3 straight times with MM at the helm then went to the post season 4 straight times once they dumped him. The 2013 team that went to the World Series had 4 .300 hitters one .296 hitter one .284 hitter and one .276 hitter and a rotation that had 2 15 game winners and a 19 game winner the 2015 team had historically good pitching. MM wanted to get wacha into the post season so brought him in to get the cardinals eliminated

Scoreboard

LaRussa's final 6 seasons with Pujols
2006 - 83
2007 - 78
2008 - 86
2009 - 91
2010 - 86
2011 - 90
________
514

Matheny's 6 seasons without Pujols
2012 - 88
2013 - 97
2014 - 90
2015 - 100
2016 - 86
2017 - 83
________
544

LaRussa's first 6 seasons without Pujols
1996 - 88
1997 - 73
1998 - 83
1999 - 75
2000 - 95
2001 - 93
________
507

6 seasons after Matheny
2019 - 91
covid 30-28 extrapolate to 162 = 84
2021 - 90
2022 - 93
2023 - 71
2024 - 83
________
512

Not one smart baseball mind would buy into this logic.

How about this? The first manager in the history of MLB to make the playoffs each of his first 4 seasons. Prior to 2011 LaRussa had made the playoffs 1 time in the previous 4 seasons and was swept by Torre and the Dodgers with Pujols on the roster. Took LaRussa 8 years to get to the WS. Took Matheny 2. No Pujols on the roster.

Help me out.

I think you’re beyond help, but if one player made that big of a difference, then the Angels would’ve dominated the AL for years w Ohtani and Trout.

Matheny made the WS in year 2, but he inherited a WS champ team, a farm system loaded with arms, and three quasi managers in Yadi, Waino and Chris Carpenter. Not to mention the signing of Beltran and maturation from Craig and Carpenter…

So this correlation using Pujols is not one any smart baseball mind would agree with. Because one great baseball player doesn’t carry an entire team. This isn’t the NBA….

And the angels would have started winning the World Series and making it to post season as soon as they got pujols

Swanson and Inciarte for Shelby Miller was as bad or worse than anything Mozeliak did. #1 overall pick and a legitimate leadoff man for Shelby Miller.

Deflection alert…

You lost this one. You're Oliver Marmol and Mike Shildt in the playoffs.

[Ozziesfan41]

I'd like to see us try to win instead of quitting midway through the season when we have a chance to make the playoff. Like we did in 2006 and 2011.

You need to have a team and manager who can win comparing what they have now to 2006 and 2011 is insane. You view it only as oh but but but look at the win totals lol the 2006 team was a great team that injury problems and got
Healthy at the right time Edmonds even took exception to people saying they just got hot at the right time on a podcast he said no they got healthy at the right time and it was a great team. The 2011 team was good they were just missing a few pieces and fixed them at the deadline just like the braves did a few years ago. This team has no middle of the order it has no ace it has nothing that can remotely say one or two moves and this team can go deep

What "stars" will we have next season? Do we dump again even if we are winning because we don't have "star power"? The star was Pujols and Matheny took us to the playoff 4 times without Pujols - and a world series.

lol the team missed the playoffs 3 straight times with MM at the helm then went to the post season 4 straight times once they dumped him. The 2013 team that went to the World Series had 4 .300 hitters one .296 hitter one .284 hitter and one .276 hitter and a rotation that had 2 15 game winners and a 19 game winner the 2015 team had historically good pitching. MM wanted to get wacha into the post season so brought him in to get the cardinals eliminated

Scoreboard

LaRussa's final 6 seasons with Pujols
2006 - 83
2007 - 78
2008 - 86
2009 - 91
2010 - 86
2011 - 90
________
514

Matheny's 6 seasons without Pujols
2012 - 88
2013 - 97
2014 - 90
2015 - 100
2016 - 86
2017 - 83
________
544

LaRussa's first 6 seasons without Pujols
1996 - 88
1997 - 73
1998 - 83
1999 - 75
2000 - 95
2001 - 93
________
507

6 seasons after Matheny
2019 - 91
covid 30-28 extrapolate to 162 = 84
2021 - 90
2022 - 93
2023 - 71
2024 - 83
________
512

Not one smart baseball mind would buy into this logic.

How about this? The first manager in the history of MLB to make the playoffs each of his first 4 seasons. Prior to 2011 LaRussa had made the playoffs 1 time in the previous 4 seasons and was swept by Torre and the Dodgers with Pujols on the roster. Took LaRussa 8 years to get to the WS. Took Matheny 2. No Pujols on the roster.

Help me out.

I think you’re beyond help, but if one player made that big of a difference, then the Angels would’ve dominated the AL for years w Ohtani and Trout.

Matheny made the WS in year 2, but he inherited a WS champ team, a farm system loaded with arms, and three quasi managers in Yadi, Waino and Chris Carpenter. Not to mention the signing of Beltran and maturation from Craig and Carpenter…

So this correlation using Pujols is not one any smart baseball mind would agree with. Because one great baseball player doesn’t carry an entire team. This isn’t the NBA….

And the angels would have started winning the World Series and making it to post season as soon as they got pujols

Swanson and Inciarte for Shelby Miller was as bad or worse than anything Mozeliak did. #1 overall pick and a legitimate leadoff man for Shelby Miller.

Deflection alert…

You lost this one. You're Oliver Marmol and Mike Shildt in the playoffs.

How did he lose that one? the whole conversation was about managing and you shifted the argument when he wasn’t with the cardinals and was a POBO lol now that’s dumb I mean what big trades did Matheny make?

[ScotchMIrish]

The 2011 team had pieces worth trading for to try to win with a cy young caliber ace pujols Berkman Holliday a hall of fame manager yea you Ride with that. You want them to trade prospects to ride with a fearsome middle of the order of Gorman and walker and gray as your big ace and freaking oli as manger lol that would be pretty dumb

I'd like to see us try to win instead of quitting midway through the season when we have a chance to make the playoff. Like we did in 2006 and 2011.

You need to have a team and manager who can win comparing what they have now to 2006 and 2011 is insane. You view it only as oh but but but look at the win totals lol the 2006 team was a great team that injury problems and got
Healthy at the right time Edmonds even took exception to people saying they just got hot at the right time on a podcast he said no they got healthy at the right time and it was a great team. The 2011 team was good they were just missing a few pieces and fixed them at the deadline just like the braves did a few years ago. This team has no middle of the order it has no ace it has nothing that can remotely say one or two moves and this team can go deep

What "stars" will we have next season? Do we dump again even if we are winning because we don't have "star power"? The star was Pujols and Matheny took us to the playoff 4 times without Pujols - and a world series.

lol the team missed the playoffs 3 straight times with MM at the helm then went to the post season 4 straight times once they dumped him. The 2013 team that went to the World Series had 4 .300 hitters one .296 hitter one .284 hitter and one .276 hitter and a rotation that had 2 15 game winners and a 19 game winner the 2015 team had historically good pitching. MM wanted to get wacha into the post season so brought him in to get the cardinals eliminated

Scoreboard

LaRussa's final 6 seasons with Pujols
2006 - 83
2007 - 78
2008 - 86
2009 - 91
2010 - 86
2011 - 90
________
514

Matheny's 6 seasons without Pujols
2012 - 88
2013 - 97
2014 - 90
2015 - 100
2016 - 86
2017 - 83
________
544

LaRussa's first 6 seasons without Pujols
1996 - 88
1997 - 73
1998 - 83
1999 - 75
2000 - 95
2001 - 93
________
507

6 seasons after Matheny
2019 - 91
covid 30-28 extrapolate to 162 = 84
2021 - 90
2022 - 93
2023 - 71
2024 - 83
________
512

Not one smart baseball mind would buy into this logic.

How about this? The first manager in the history of MLB to make the playoffs each of his first 4 seasons. Prior to 2011 LaRussa had made the playoffs 1 time in the previous 4 seasons and was swept by Torre and the Dodgers with Pujols on the roster. Took LaRussa 8 years to get to the WS. Took Matheny 2. No Pujols on the roster.

Help me out.

I think you’re beyond help, but if one player made that big of a difference, then the Angels would’ve dominated the AL for years w Ohtani and Trout.

Matheny made the WS in year 2, but he inherited a WS champ team, a farm system loaded with arms, and three quasi managers in Yadi, Waino and Chris Carpenter. Not to mention the signing of Beltran and maturation from Craig and Carpenter…

So this correlation using Pujols is not one any smart baseball mind would agree with. Because one great baseball player doesn’t carry an entire team. This isn’t the NBA….

And the angels would have started winning the World Series and making it to post season as soon as they got pujols

Swanson and Inciarte for Shelby Miller was as bad or worse than anything Mozeliak did. #1 overall pick and a legitimate leadoff man for Shelby Miller.

What does that have to do with his managing?
And again what does that have to do with the angels didn’t start winning the World Series as soon as they got pujols?

Cardinals hadn't won a playoff series in 5 years prior to 2011. A good manager makes a difference.

[Ozziesfan41]

I'd like to see us try to win instead of quitting midway through the season when we have a chance to make the playoff. Like we did in 2006 and 2011.

You need to have a team and manager who can win comparing what they have now to 2006 and 2011 is insane. You view it only as oh but but but look at the win totals lol the 2006 team was a great team that injury problems and got
Healthy at the right time Edmonds even took exception to people saying they just got hot at the right time on a podcast he said no they got healthy at the right time and it was a great team. The 2011 team was good they were just missing a few pieces and fixed them at the deadline just like the braves did a few years ago. This team has no middle of the order it has no ace it has nothing that can remotely say one or two moves and this team can go deep

What "stars" will we have next season? Do we dump again even if we are winning because we don't have "star power"? The star was Pujols and Matheny took us to the playoff 4 times without Pujols - and a world series.

lol the team missed the playoffs 3 straight times with MM at the helm then went to the post season 4 straight times once they dumped him. The 2013 team that went to the World Series had 4 .300 hitters one .296 hitter one .284 hitter and one .276 hitter and a rotation that had 2 15 game winners and a 19 game winner the 2015 team had historically good pitching. MM wanted to get wacha into the post season so brought him in to get the cardinals eliminated

Scoreboard

LaRussa's final 6 seasons with Pujols
2006 - 83
2007 - 78
2008 - 86
2009 - 91
2010 - 86
2011 - 90
________
514

Matheny's 6 seasons without Pujols
2012 - 88
2013 - 97
2014 - 90
2015 - 100
2016 - 86
2017 - 83
________
544

LaRussa's first 6 seasons without Pujols
1996 - 88
1997 - 73
1998 - 83
1999 - 75
2000 - 95
2001 - 93
________
507

6 seasons after Matheny
2019 - 91
covid 30-28 extrapolate to 162 = 84
2021 - 90
2022 - 93
2023 - 71
2024 - 83
________
512

Not one smart baseball mind would buy into this logic.

How about this? The first manager in the history of MLB to make the playoffs each of his first 4 seasons. Prior to 2011 LaRussa had made the playoffs 1 time in the previous 4 seasons and was swept by Torre and the Dodgers with Pujols on the roster. Took LaRussa 8 years to get to the WS. Took Matheny 2. No Pujols on the roster.

Help me out.

I think you’re beyond help, but if one player made that big of a difference, then the Angels would’ve dominated the AL for years w Ohtani and Trout.

Matheny made the WS in year 2, but he inherited a WS champ team, a farm system loaded with arms, and three quasi managers in Yadi, Waino and Chris Carpenter. Not to mention the signing of Beltran and maturation from Craig and Carpenter…

So this correlation using Pujols is not one any smart baseball mind would agree with. Because one great baseball player doesn’t carry an entire team. This isn’t the NBA….

And the angels would have started winning the World Series and making it to post season as soon as they got pujols

Swanson and Inciarte for Shelby Miller was as bad or worse than anything Mozeliak did. #1 overall pick and a legitimate leadoff man for Shelby Miller.

What does that have to do with his managing?
And again what does that have to do with the angels didn’t start winning the World Series as soon as they got pujols?

Cardinals hadn't won a playoff series in 5 years prior to 2011. A good manager makes a difference.

That’s true that’s why Larussa has won 3 World Series in his career and Matheny how many? 0? And is Matheny going into the hall of fame like Larussa?

[ecleme22]

I'd like to see us try to win instead of quitting midway through the season when we have a chance to make the playoff. Like we did in 2006 and 2011.

You need to have a team and manager who can win comparing what they have now to 2006 and 2011 is insane. You view it only as oh but but but look at the win totals lol the 2006 team was a great team that injury problems and got
Healthy at the right time Edmonds even took exception to people saying they just got hot at the right time on a podcast he said no they got healthy at the right time and it was a great team. The 2011 team was good they were just missing a few pieces and fixed them at the deadline just like the braves did a few years ago. This team has no middle of the order it has no ace it has nothing that can remotely say one or two moves and this team can go deep

What "stars" will we have next season? Do we dump again even if we are winning because we don't have "star power"? The star was Pujols and Matheny took us to the playoff 4 times without Pujols - and a world series.

lol the team missed the playoffs 3 straight times with MM at the helm then went to the post season 4 straight times once they dumped him. The 2013 team that went to the World Series had 4 .300 hitters one .296 hitter one .284 hitter and one .276 hitter and a rotation that had 2 15 game winners and a 19 game winner the 2015 team had historically good pitching. MM wanted to get wacha into the post season so brought him in to get the cardinals eliminated

Scoreboard

LaRussa's final 6 seasons with Pujols
2006 - 83
2007 - 78
2008 - 86
2009 - 91
2010 - 86
2011 - 90
________
514

Matheny's 6 seasons without Pujols
2012 - 88
2013 - 97
2014 - 90
2015 - 100
2016 - 86
2017 - 83
________
544

LaRussa's first 6 seasons without Pujols
1996 - 88
1997 - 73
1998 - 83
1999 - 75
2000 - 95
2001 - 93
________
507

6 seasons after Matheny
2019 - 91
covid 30-28 extrapolate to 162 = 84
2021 - 90
2022 - 93
2023 - 71
2024 - 83
________
512

Not one smart baseball mind would buy into this logic.

How about this? The first manager in the history of MLB to make the playoffs each of his first 4 seasons. Prior to 2011 LaRussa had made the playoffs 1 time in the previous 4 seasons and was swept by Torre and the Dodgers with Pujols on the roster. Took LaRussa 8 years to get to the WS. Took Matheny 2. No Pujols on the roster.

Help me out.

I think you’re beyond help, but if one player made that big of a difference, then the Angels would’ve dominated the AL for years w Ohtani and Trout.

Matheny made the WS in year 2, but he inherited a WS champ team, a farm system loaded with arms, and three quasi managers in Yadi, Waino and Chris Carpenter. Not to mention the signing of Beltran and maturation from Craig and Carpenter…

So this correlation using Pujols is not one any smart baseball mind would agree with. Because one great baseball player doesn’t carry an entire team. This isn’t the NBA….

And the angels would have started winning the World Series and making it to post season as soon as they got pujols

Swanson and Inciarte for Shelby Miller was as bad or worse than anything Mozeliak did. #1 overall pick and a legitimate leadoff man for Shelby Miller.

Deflection alert…

You lost this one. You're Oliver Marmol and Mike Shildt in the playoffs.

Another deflection.

[ScotchMIrish]

You need to have a team and manager who can win comparing what they have now to 2006 and 2011 is insane. You view it only as oh but but but look at the win totals lol the 2006 team was a great team that injury problems and got
Healthy at the right time Edmonds even took exception to people saying they just got hot at the right time on a podcast he said no they got healthy at the right time and it was a great team. The 2011 team was good they were just missing a few pieces and fixed them at the deadline just like the braves did a few years ago. This team has no middle of the order it has no ace it has nothing that can remotely say one or two moves and this team can go deep

What "stars" will we have next season? Do we dump again even if we are winning because we don't have "star power"? The star was Pujols and Matheny took us to the playoff 4 times without Pujols - and a world series.

lol the team missed the playoffs 3 straight times with MM at the helm then went to the post season 4 straight times once they dumped him. The 2013 team that went to the World Series had 4 .300 hitters one .296 hitter one .284 hitter and one .276 hitter and a rotation that had 2 15 game winners and a 19 game winner the 2015 team had historically good pitching. MM wanted to get wacha into the post season so brought him in to get the cardinals eliminated

Scoreboard

LaRussa's final 6 seasons with Pujols
2006 - 83
2007 - 78
2008 - 86
2009 - 91
2010 - 86
2011 - 90
________
514

Matheny's 6 seasons without Pujols
2012 - 88
2013 - 97
2014 - 90
2015 - 100
2016 - 86
2017 - 83
________
544

LaRussa's first 6 seasons without Pujols
1996 - 88
1997 - 73
1998 - 83
1999 - 75
2000 - 95
2001 - 93
________
507

6 seasons after Matheny
2019 - 91
covid 30-28 extrapolate to 162 = 84
2021 - 90
2022 - 93
2023 - 71
2024 - 83
________
512

Not one smart baseball mind would buy into this logic.

How about this? The first manager in the history of MLB to make the playoffs each of his first 4 seasons. Prior to 2011 LaRussa had made the playoffs 1 time in the previous 4 seasons and was swept by Torre and the Dodgers with Pujols on the roster. Took LaRussa 8 years to get to the WS. Took Matheny 2. No Pujols on the roster.

Help me out.

I think you’re beyond help, but if one player made that big of a difference, then the Angels would’ve dominated the AL for years w Ohtani and Trout.

Matheny made the WS in year 2, but he inherited a WS champ team, a farm system loaded with arms, and three quasi managers in Yadi, Waino and Chris Carpenter. Not to mention the signing of Beltran and maturation from Craig and Carpenter…

So this correlation using Pujols is not one any smart baseball mind would agree with. Because one great baseball player doesn’t carry an entire team. This isn’t the NBA….

And the angels would have started winning the World Series and making it to post season as soon as they got pujols

Swanson and Inciarte for Shelby Miller was as bad or worse than anything Mozeliak did. #1 overall pick and a legitimate leadoff man for Shelby Miller.

What does that have to do with his managing?
And again what does that have to do with the angels didn’t start winning the World Series as soon as they got pujols?

Cardinals hadn't won a playoff series in 5 years prior to 2011. A good manager makes a difference.

That’s true that’s why Larussa has won 3 World Series in his career and Matheny how many? 0? And is Matheny going into the hall of fame like Larussa?

Thanks for agreeing.

[ScotchMIrish]

You need to have a team and manager who can win comparing what they have now to 2006 and 2011 is insane. You view it only as oh but but but look at the win totals lol the 2006 team was a great team that injury problems and got
Healthy at the right time Edmonds even took exception to people saying they just got hot at the right time on a podcast he said no they got healthy at the right time and it was a great team. The 2011 team was good they were just missing a few pieces and fixed them at the deadline just like the braves did a few years ago. This team has no middle of the order it has no ace it has nothing that can remotely say one or two moves and this team can go deep

What "stars" will we have next season? Do we dump again even if we are winning because we don't have "star power"? The star was Pujols and Matheny took us to the playoff 4 times without Pujols - and a world series.

lol the team missed the playoffs 3 straight times with MM at the helm then went to the post season 4 straight times once they dumped him. The 2013 team that went to the World Series had 4 .300 hitters one .296 hitter one .284 hitter and one .276 hitter and a rotation that had 2 15 game winners and a 19 game winner the 2015 team had historically good pitching. MM wanted to get wacha into the post season so brought him in to get the cardinals eliminated

Scoreboard

LaRussa's final 6 seasons with Pujols
2006 - 83
2007 - 78
2008 - 86
2009 - 91
2010 - 86
2011 - 90
________
514

Matheny's 6 seasons without Pujols
2012 - 88
2013 - 97
2014 - 90
2015 - 100
2016 - 86
2017 - 83
________
544

LaRussa's first 6 seasons without Pujols
1996 - 88
1997 - 73
1998 - 83
1999 - 75
2000 - 95
2001 - 93
________
507

6 seasons after Matheny
2019 - 91
covid 30-28 extrapolate to 162 = 84
2021 - 90
2022 - 93
2023 - 71
2024 - 83
________
512

Not one smart baseball mind would buy into this logic.

How about this? The first manager in the history of MLB to make the playoffs each of his first 4 seasons. Prior to 2011 LaRussa had made the playoffs 1 time in the previous 4 seasons and was swept by Torre and the Dodgers with Pujols on the roster. Took LaRussa 8 years to get to the WS. Took Matheny 2. No Pujols on the roster.

Help me out.

I think you’re beyond help, but if one player made that big of a difference, then the Angels would’ve dominated the AL for years w Ohtani and Trout.

Matheny made the WS in year 2, but he inherited a WS champ team, a farm system loaded with arms, and three quasi managers in Yadi, Waino and Chris Carpenter. Not to mention the signing of Beltran and maturation from Craig and Carpenter…

So this correlation using Pujols is not one any smart baseball mind would agree with. Because one great baseball player doesn’t carry an entire team. This isn’t the NBA….

And the angels would have started winning the World Series and making it to post season as soon as they got pujols

Swanson and Inciarte for Shelby Miller was as bad or worse than anything Mozeliak did. #1 overall pick and a legitimate leadoff man for Shelby Miller.

Deflection alert…

You lost this one. You're Oliver Marmol and Mike Shildt in the playoffs.

Another deflection.

Excellent point. You win.

[ecleme22]

What "stars" will we have next season? Do we dump again even if we are winning because we don't have "star power"? The star was Pujols and Matheny took us to the playoff 4 times without Pujols - and a world series.

lol the team missed the playoffs 3 straight times with MM at the helm then went to the post season 4 straight times once they dumped him. The 2013 team that went to the World Series had 4 .300 hitters one .296 hitter one .284 hitter and one .276 hitter and a rotation that had 2 15 game winners and a 19 game winner the 2015 team had historically good pitching. MM wanted to get wacha into the post season so brought him in to get the cardinals eliminated

Scoreboard

LaRussa's final 6 seasons with Pujols
2006 - 83
2007 - 78
2008 - 86
2009 - 91
2010 - 86
2011 - 90
________
514

Matheny's 6 seasons without Pujols
2012 - 88
2013 - 97
2014 - 90
2015 - 100
2016 - 86
2017 - 83
________
544

LaRussa's first 6 seasons without Pujols
1996 - 88
1997 - 73
1998 - 83
1999 - 75
2000 - 95
2001 - 93
________
507

6 seasons after Matheny
2019 - 91
covid 30-28 extrapolate to 162 = 84
2021 - 90
2022 - 93
2023 - 71
2024 - 83
________
512

Not one smart baseball mind would buy into this logic.

How about this? The first manager in the history of MLB to make the playoffs each of his first 4 seasons. Prior to 2011 LaRussa had made the playoffs 1 time in the previous 4 seasons and was swept by Torre and the Dodgers with Pujols on the roster. Took LaRussa 8 years to get to the WS. Took Matheny 2. No Pujols on the roster.

Help me out.

I think you’re beyond help, but if one player made that big of a difference, then the Angels would’ve dominated the AL for years w Ohtani and Trout.

Matheny made the WS in year 2, but he inherited a WS champ team, a farm system loaded with arms, and three quasi managers in Yadi, Waino and Chris Carpenter. Not to mention the signing of Beltran and maturation from Craig and Carpenter…

So this correlation using Pujols is not one any smart baseball mind would agree with. Because one great baseball player doesn’t carry an entire team. This isn’t the NBA….

And the angels would have started winning the World Series and making it to post season as soon as they got pujols

Swanson and Inciarte for Shelby Miller was as bad or worse than anything Mozeliak did. #1 overall pick and a legitimate leadoff man for Shelby Miller.

Deflection alert…

You lost this one. You're Oliver Marmol and Mike Shildt in the playoffs.

Another deflection.

Excellent point. You win.

My win is by disqualification on your end.

I think you know you painted yourself in a corner. So you deflecting.

[ScotchMIrish]

lol the team missed the playoffs 3 straight times with MM at the helm then went to the post season 4 straight times once they dumped him. The 2013 team that went to the World Series had 4 .300 hitters one .296 hitter one .284 hitter and one .276 hitter and a rotation that had 2 15 game winners and a 19 game winner the 2015 team had historically good pitching. MM wanted to get wacha into the post season so brought him in to get the cardinals eliminated

Scoreboard

LaRussa's final 6 seasons with Pujols
2006 - 83
2007 - 78
2008 - 86
2009 - 91
2010 - 86
2011 - 90
________
514

Matheny's 6 seasons without Pujols
2012 - 88
2013 - 97
2014 - 90
2015 - 100
2016 - 86
2017 - 83
________
544

LaRussa's first 6 seasons without Pujols
1996 - 88
1997 - 73
1998 - 83
1999 - 75
2000 - 95
2001 - 93
________
507

6 seasons after Matheny
2019 - 91
covid 30-28 extrapolate to 162 = 84
2021 - 90
2022 - 93
2023 - 71
2024 - 83
________
512

Not one smart baseball mind would buy into this logic.

How about this? The first manager in the history of MLB to make the playoffs each of his first 4 seasons. Prior to 2011 LaRussa had made the playoffs 1 time in the previous 4 seasons and was swept by Torre and the Dodgers with Pujols on the roster. Took LaRussa 8 years to get to the WS. Took Matheny 2. No Pujols on the roster.

Help me out.

I think you’re beyond help, but if one player made that big of a difference, then the Angels would’ve dominated the AL for years w Ohtani and Trout.

Matheny made the WS in year 2, but he inherited a WS champ team, a farm system loaded with arms, and three quasi managers in Yadi, Waino and Chris Carpenter. Not to mention the signing of Beltran and maturation from Craig and Carpenter…

So this correlation using Pujols is not one any smart baseball mind would agree with. Because one great baseball player doesn’t carry an entire team. This isn’t the NBA….

And the angels would have started winning the World Series and making it to post season as soon as they got pujols

Swanson and Inciarte for Shelby Miller was as bad or worse than anything Mozeliak did. #1 overall pick and a legitimate leadoff man for Shelby Miller.

Deflection alert…

You lost this one. You're Oliver Marmol and Mike Shildt in the playoffs.

Another deflection.

Excellent point. You win.

My win is by disqualification on your end.

I think you know you painted yourself in a corner. So you deflecting.

Nobody can win a debate with a baseball mind like yours.

[ecleme22]

Scoreboard

LaRussa's final 6 seasons with Pujols
2006 - 83
2007 - 78
2008 - 86
2009 - 91
2010 - 86
2011 - 90
________
514

Matheny's 6 seasons without Pujols
2012 - 88
2013 - 97
2014 - 90
2015 - 100
2016 - 86
2017 - 83
________
544

LaRussa's first 6 seasons without Pujols
1996 - 88
1997 - 73
1998 - 83
1999 - 75
2000 - 95
2001 - 93
________
507

6 seasons after Matheny
2019 - 91
covid 30-28 extrapolate to 162 = 84
2021 - 90
2022 - 93
2023 - 71
2024 - 83
________
512

Not one smart baseball mind would buy into this logic.

How about this? The first manager in the history of MLB to make the playoffs each of his first 4 seasons. Prior to 2011 LaRussa had made the playoffs 1 time in the previous 4 seasons and was swept by Torre and the Dodgers with Pujols on the roster. Took LaRussa 8 years to get to the WS. Took Matheny 2. No Pujols on the roster.

Help me out.

I think you’re beyond help, but if one player made that big of a difference, then the Angels would’ve dominated the AL for years w Ohtani and Trout.

Matheny made the WS in year 2, but he inherited a WS champ team, a farm system loaded with arms, and three quasi managers in Yadi, Waino and Chris Carpenter. Not to mention the signing of Beltran and maturation from Craig and Carpenter…

So this correlation using Pujols is not one any smart baseball mind would agree with. Because one great baseball player doesn’t carry an entire team. This isn’t the NBA….

And the angels would have started winning the World Series and making it to post season as soon as they got pujols

Swanson and Inciarte for Shelby Miller was as bad or worse than anything Mozeliak did. #1 overall pick and a legitimate leadoff man for Shelby Miller.

Deflection alert…

You lost this one. You're Oliver Marmol and Mike Shildt in the playoffs.

Another deflection.

Excellent point. You win.

My win is by disqualification on your end.

I think you know you painted yourself in a corner. So you deflecting.

Nobody can win a debate with a baseball mind like yours.

This debate is a layup for most baseball fans.

Your deflections the last three replies show you have nowhere to run…

[Talkin' Baseball]

Another baseball thread rendered unreadable. Ughhh.

[45s]

Another baseball thread rendered unreadable. Ughhh.

Yet another interminable discussion about the past…