Fedde DFAd

[Shady]

The Cards can still trade Fedde. Maybe as part of a package.

[renostl]

I screamed from the top of my lungs to trade this fool's gold in the offseason. There was a huge back and forth. Mo does what Mo does best, now we will get nothing for him. Mo sucking at being GM proven once again.

What did you think they would get for him in a trade?

You see brock here knows more than the other 29 GMs/POBOs in MLB - those guys had no idea, not even an inkling that Fedde was what brock saw, so we would have got a straight up HAUL of prospects.

Nobody is saying that. He was an inexpensive risk. If he pitches close to what he had done, he's a steal. At worst, he is a limited risk. He flames out and you have only 3M left and no years left. Thats enough to toss a mid level team prospect and maybe a lottery ticket at.

That's most of the reality.

The Cards are extremely thin with SP. There's McGreevy, Matz, then a couple others and it's not like Libs, Pallante, or Miles
are some absolute knowns quantities. They have also been extremely fortunate to this point with health. Extremely.

Fedde, even with the hindsight POV, brought developmental time to the organization for those pitchers. He looks less valuable
now because he wasn't needed so much when no injuries occurred. He was probably going to be gone in a week anyway.
The miss with Fedde is whatever prospect he'd bring back a maybe something vs nothing.

But this was a wasted season from the start. They wanted to see what the young guys could do. The GM needs to sell guys ay their highest value which was this offseason for Fedde. Fedde wasn't really in their plans for the future. It doesn't really matter who takes his innings..McGreevy probably could be starting all year, Matz could take his place, or just sign a Gibson type off the scrap heap for nothing because we had no intention of putting a winning team out there. Just cut payroll and let the youngsters sink or swim. Now not only did we get nothing whatsoever for him now we are paying him to do nothing but scratch his balls.

Not a totally wasted season. We have gathered info. McGreevy, Leahy, Graceffo,
Pallante, Liberatore, others are getting exposure. Gibson would have been a wash vs Fedde
maybe worse and $12 million. Matz has been needed in his role and may become more valuable
having done it vs being in the rotation.

IMO, you don't save much money finding scrap heap vs Fedde what $5 million tops?
So is developmental time for guys "not ready yet" according to the team worth $5 million, that probably gets determined
after the results of the sinking or swimming of those prospects.

The Cards already put 2 prospects in the rotation with AP and ML. They've been fortunate with health.
Very fortunate IMO most teams go 7-8+ deep in SP's each season. The Cards, in cost cutting mode
thought there was value in keeping Fedde for at least the 1st half for those services. What they missed out on
is whatever the return for a 4.0+ FIP rental SP would have brought back. Something that would have been
similar without his implosion. I'd much rather that happen to Fedde than any current prospect.

That’s all fine and good but a MLB season isn’t about finding out about who can play and who can’t. I’m not sure where this narrative started that has gained so much acceptance……
It’s about winning GAMES…..as many Games as possible. This isn’t a minor league team where standings are secondary to development. If this were actually the process the STL Cardinals would have never won a World Series….during Whitey and Tony kids were brought up because they were good and help the team win…..not find out…..if they weren’t good they sent back soon to AAA to find out there.
Have a lot more expectation for how this should really work

You are correct in the goal.
I'll never debate that as a goal.

I no longer believe that we can compare those eras to today so we may disagree on that.
The economics are extreme now. Teams even with fairly deep pockets need reboots, rebuilds
or whatever. To be constantly at the top is left to the teams that have both deep pockets
and are very well run. The teams in the heartland are at a disadvantage, IMO, under the
current rules.

[desertrat23]

I screamed from the top of my lungs to trade this fool's gold in the offseason. There was a huge back and forth. Mo does what Mo does best, now we will get nothing for him. Mo sucking at being GM proven once again.

What did you think they would get for him in a trade?

You see brock here knows more than the other 29 GMs/POBOs in MLB - those guys had no idea, not even an inkling that Fedde was what brock saw, so we would have got a straight up HAUL of prospects.

Nobody is saying that. He was an inexpensive risk. If he pitches close to what he had done, he's a steal. At worst, he is a limited risk. He flames out and you have only 3M left and no years left. Thats enough to toss a mid level team prospect and maybe a lottery ticket at.

That's most of the reality.

The Cards are extremely thin with SP. There's McGreevy, Matz, then a couple others and it's not like Libs, Pallante, or Miles
are some absolute knowns quantities. They have also been extremely fortunate to this point with health. Extremely.

Fedde, even with the hindsight POV, brought developmental time to the organization for those pitchers. He looks less valuable
now because he wasn't needed so much when no injuries occurred. He was probably going to be gone in a week anyway.
The miss with Fedde is whatever prospect he'd bring back a maybe something vs nothing.

But this was a wasted season from the start. They wanted to see what the young guys could do. The GM needs to sell guys ay their highest value which was this offseason for Fedde. Fedde wasn't really in their plans for the future. It doesn't really matter who takes his innings..McGreevy probably could be starting all year, Matz could take his place, or just sign a Gibson type off the scrap heap for nothing because we had no intention of putting a winning team out there. Just cut payroll and let the youngsters sink or swim. Now not only did we get nothing whatsoever for him now we are paying him to do nothing but scratch his balls.

Not a totally wasted season. We have gathered info. McGreevy, Leahy, Graceffo,
Pallante, Liberatore, others are getting exposure. Gibson would have been a wash vs Fedde
maybe worse and $12 million. Matz has been needed in his role and may become more valuable
having done it vs being in the rotation.

IMO, you don't save much money finding scrap heap vs Fedde what $5 million tops?
So is developmental time for guys "not ready yet" according to the team worth $5 million, that probably gets determined
after the results of the sinking or swimming of those prospects.

The Cards already put 2 prospects in the rotation with AP and ML. They've been fortunate with health.
Very fortunate IMO most teams go 7-8+ deep in SP's each season. The Cards, in cost cutting mode
thought there was value in keeping Fedde for at least the 1st half for those services. What they missed out on
is whatever the return for a 4.0+ FIP rental SP would have brought back. Something that would have been
similar without his implosion. I'd much rather that happen to Fedde than any current prospect.

That’s all fine and good but a MLB season isn’t about finding out about who can play and who can’t. I’m not sure where this narrative started that has gained so much acceptance……
It’s about winning GAMES…..as many Games as possible. This isn’t a minor league team where standings are secondary to development. If this were actually the process the STL Cardinals would have never won a World Series….during Whitey and Tony kids were brought up because they were good and help the team win…..not find out…..if they weren’t good they sent back soon to AAA to find out there.
Have a lot more expectation for how this should really work

You are correct in the goal.
I'll never debate that as a goal.

I no longer believe that we can compare those eras to today so we may disagree on that.
The economics are extreme now. Teams even with fairly deep pockets need reboots, rebuilds
or whatever. To be constantly at the top is left to the teams that have both deep pockets
and are very well run. The teams in the heartland are at a disadvantage, IMO, under the
current rules.

Sure they are. Which means teams in the Heartland have to be smarter, more opportunistic, and more aggressive. Think the Brewers.

Our organization isn’t just reluctant to be more opportunistic and aggressive, they flat out refuse to be.

[RichieRichSTL]

I screamed from the top of my lungs to trade this fool's gold in the offseason. There was a huge back and forth. Mo does what Mo does best, now we will get nothing for him. Mo sucking at being GM proven once again.

What did you think they would get for him in a trade?

You see brock here knows more than the other 29 GMs/POBOs in MLB - those guys had no idea, not even an inkling that Fedde was what brock saw, so we would have got a straight up HAUL of prospects.

Nobody is saying that. He was an inexpensive risk. If he pitches close to what he had done, he's a steal. At worst, he is a limited risk. He flames out and you have only 3M left and no years left. Thats enough to toss a mid level team prospect and maybe a lottery ticket at.

That's most of the reality.

The Cards are extremely thin with SP. There's McGreevy, Matz, then a couple others and it's not like Libs, Pallante, or Miles
are some absolute knowns quantities. They have also been extremely fortunate to this point with health. Extremely.

Fedde, even with the hindsight POV, brought developmental time to the organization for those pitchers. He looks less valuable
now because he wasn't needed so much when no injuries occurred. He was probably going to be gone in a week anyway.
The miss with Fedde is whatever prospect he'd bring back a maybe something vs nothing.

McGreevy was already ready. Graceffo was here
Matz was available. Heck you could take a flyer on a starter out of work for little to nothing and no cost in players.

Mo got cute:
- He held on to his hand too long.
- Rationalized that he could get more if Fedde proved himself more. Fedde was likely going to regress some, so the upside risk was always limited.
- Because he was more committed to winning than development, provided it was done in a cost controlled way.
-Ostensibly the reset was as much an excuse for salary dumping.
- He had pride in his trade and wanted to prove that he made a wise pickup.

Mo is a narcissist who doesn't like being challenged who makes decisions in a narcissist way. That doesnt mean who hasn't made any good decisions, but his judgment is clouded.


It's not 20/20 when even national publications suggested that was what he should do.

[greyhawk]

The Cards can still trade Fedde. Maybe as part of a package.

this is correct and it does force anyone with even a semblance of interest to show their cards....it doesn't force them to give up much to get him. i don't agree that he will be part of any kind of package, Fedde has pitched some decent games this season just not lately. His value is totally tied to the peanuts anyone will be on the hook to pay him for anything they can get from him this season.

[sdaltons]

I screamed from the top of my lungs to trade this fool's gold in the offseason. There was a huge back and forth. Mo does what Mo does best, now we will get nothing for him. Mo sucking at being GM proven once again.

What did you think they would get for him in a trade?

You see brock here knows more than the other 29 GMs/POBOs in MLB - those guys had no idea, not even an inkling that Fedde was what brock saw, so we would have got a straight up HAUL of prospects.

Nobody is saying that. He was an inexpensive risk. If he pitches close to what he had done, he's a steal. At worst, he is a limited risk. He flames out and you have only 3M left and no years left. Thats enough to toss a mid level team prospect and maybe a lottery ticket at.

That's most of the reality.

The Cards are extremely thin with SP. There's McGreevy, Matz, then a couple others and it's not like Libs, Pallante, or Miles
are some absolute knowns quantities. They have also been extremely fortunate to this point with health. Extremely.

Fedde, even with the hindsight POV, brought developmental time to the organization for those pitchers. He looks less valuable
now because he wasn't needed so much when no injuries occurred. He was probably going to be gone in a week anyway.
The miss with Fedde is whatever prospect he'd bring back a maybe something vs nothing.

But this was a wasted season from the start. They wanted to see what the young guys could do. The GM needs to sell guys ay their highest value which was this offseason for Fedde. Fedde wasn't really in their plans for the future. It doesn't really matter who takes his innings..McGreevy probably could be starting all year, Matz could take his place, or just sign a Gibson type off the scrap heap for nothing because we had no intention of putting a winning team out there. Just cut payroll and let the youngsters sink or swim. Now not only did we get nothing whatsoever for him now we are paying him to do nothing but scratch his balls.

Yes, that was the October plan, only to go into the season with, I believe, the oldest pitching staff in baseball. Then, they decide to give real runway to Victor Scott, b/c I guess ST performance is more important that a garbage minor league season. That move then prevented the Cardinals from giving one of the main guys they were referring to in October for runway playing time, in Gorman. Comically stupid roster management on multiple levels. Also, just let Herrera catch. Pages is no good. We all know that. We also know that Herrera is not the long-term Catcher, but in a season of runway, that would have been a good choice in order to free up playing time for guys who actually might be part of their future. I could go on.

Continue to be baffled by the Herrera thing. Makes no sense. Or if they are just going to bail on him at C, why not stick him in LF?

Guess it makes sense for the org that suddenly decided Contreras would be a 1B and Walker would be a RF.

All reeks of a front office with no real plan.

It's not fair to move a guy to the OF at the big league level who has never played the position. That isn't exactly what the did to Walker, but not far off. He should just catch b/c he's a Catcher. Let the league run wild on him. Who cares? The Cardinals aren't going anywhere, and they need to create ABs for the Gorman's of the world. I'd be happy to see Gorman take Pages place in the lineup.

I'm saying they should have been able to recognize he's not going to cut it at C several years back while he was still at Memphis. They could have moved him then. Instead we have now moved our starting C to a new spot twice in the same season.

What it comes down to is I 100% agree he should be catching. I'll take the struggles. Maybe he'd even work through some of them!

[Ozziesfan41]

I screamed from the top of my lungs to trade this fool's gold in the offseason. There was a huge back and forth. Mo does what Mo does best, now we will get nothing for him. Mo sucking at being GM proven once again.

What did you think they would get for him in a trade?

You see brock here knows more than the other 29 GMs/POBOs in MLB - those guys had no idea, not even an inkling that Fedde was what brock saw, so we would have got a straight up HAUL of prospects.

Nobody is saying that. He was an inexpensive risk. If he pitches close to what he had done, he's a steal. At worst, he is a limited risk. He flames out and you have only 3M left and no years left. Thats enough to toss a mid level team prospect and maybe a lottery ticket at.

That's most of the reality.

The Cards are extremely thin with SP. There's McGreevy, Matz, then a couple others and it's not like Libs, Pallante, or Miles
are some absolute knowns quantities. They have also been extremely fortunate to this point with health. Extremely.

Fedde, even with the hindsight POV, brought developmental time to the organization for those pitchers. He looks less valuable
now because he wasn't needed so much when no injuries occurred. He was probably going to be gone in a week anyway.
The miss with Fedde is whatever prospect he'd bring back a maybe something vs nothing.

But this was a wasted season from the start. They wanted to see what the young guys could do. The GM needs to sell guys ay their highest value which was this offseason for Fedde. Fedde wasn't really in their plans for the future. It doesn't really matter who takes his innings..McGreevy probably could be starting all year, Matz could take his place, or just sign a Gibson type off the scrap heap for nothing because we had no intention of putting a winning team out there. Just cut payroll and let the youngsters sink or swim. Now not only did we get nothing whatsoever for him now we are paying him to do nothing but scratch his balls.

Yes, that was the October plan, only to go into the season with, I believe, the oldest pitching staff in baseball. Then, they decide to give real runway to Victor Scott, b/c I guess ST performance is more important that a garbage minor league season. That move then prevented the Cardinals from giving one of the main guys they were referring to in October for runway playing time, in Gorman. Comically stupid roster management on multiple levels. Also, just let Herrera catch. Pages is no good. We all know that. We also know that Herrera is not the long-term Catcher, but in a season of runway, that would have been a good choice in order to free up playing time for guys who actually might be part of their future. I could go on.

Continue to be baffled by the Herrera thing. Makes no sense. Or if they are just going to bail on him at C, why not stick him in LF?

Guess it makes sense for the org that suddenly decided Contreras would be a 1B and Walker would be a RF.

All reeks of a front office with no real plan.

It's not fair to move a guy to the OF at the big league level who has never played the position. That isn't exactly what the did to Walker, but not far off. He should just catch b/c he's a Catcher. Let the league run wild on him. Who cares? The Cardinals aren't going anywhere, and they need to create ABs for the Gorman's of the world. I'd be happy to see Gorman take Pages place in the lineup.

I'm saying they should have been able to recognize he's not going to cut it at C several years back while he was still at Memphis. They could have moved him then. Instead we have now moved our starting C to a new spot twice in the same season.

What it comes down to is I 100% agree he should be catching. I'll take the struggles. Maybe he'd even work through some of them!

+1 they knew what his arm was he should have been moved to the outfield in the minors

[Absolut]

Now do mikolas so I dont have to see him pitch in San Diego.

[desertrat23]

Now do mikolas so I dont have to see him pitch in San Diego.

You’re doing the Petco series too? At least the weather will be good.

[renostl]

I screamed from the top of my lungs to trade this fool's gold in the offseason. There was a huge back and forth. Mo does what Mo does best, now we will get nothing for him. Mo sucking at being GM proven once again.

What did you think they would get for him in a trade?

You see brock here knows more than the other 29 GMs/POBOs in MLB - those guys had no idea, not even an inkling that Fedde was what brock saw, so we would have got a straight up HAUL of prospects.

Nobody is saying that. He was an inexpensive risk. If he pitches close to what he had done, he's a steal. At worst, he is a limited risk. He flames out and you have only 3M left and no years left. Thats enough to toss a mid level team prospect and maybe a lottery ticket at.

That's most of the reality.

The Cards are extremely thin with SP. There's McGreevy, Matz, then a couple others and it's not like Libs, Pallante, or Miles
are some absolute knowns quantities. They have also been extremely fortunate to this point with health. Extremely.

Fedde, even with the hindsight POV, brought developmental time to the organization for those pitchers. He looks less valuable
now because he wasn't needed so much when no injuries occurred. He was probably going to be gone in a week anyway.
The miss with Fedde is whatever prospect he'd bring back a maybe something vs nothing.

But this was a wasted season from the start. They wanted to see what the young guys could do. The GM needs to sell guys ay their highest value which was this offseason for Fedde. Fedde wasn't really in their plans for the future. It doesn't really matter who takes his innings..McGreevy probably could be starting all year, Matz could take his place, or just sign a Gibson type off the scrap heap for nothing because we had no intention of putting a winning team out there. Just cut payroll and let the youngsters sink or swim. Now not only did we get nothing whatsoever for him now we are paying him to do nothing but scratch his balls.

Not a totally wasted season. We have gathered info. McGreevy, Leahy, Graceffo,
Pallante, Liberatore, others are getting exposure. Gibson would have been a wash vs Fedde
maybe worse and $12 million. Matz has been needed in his role and may become more valuable
having done it vs being in the rotation.

IMO, you don't save much money finding scrap heap vs Fedde what $5 million tops?
So is developmental time for guys "not ready yet" according to the team worth $5 million, that probably gets determined
after the results of the sinking or swimming of those prospects.

The Cards already put 2 prospects in the rotation with AP and ML. They've been fortunate with health.
Very fortunate IMO most teams go 7-8+ deep in SP's each season. The Cards, in cost cutting mode
thought there was value in keeping Fedde for at least the 1st half for those services. What they missed out on
is whatever the return for a 4.0+ FIP rental SP would have brought back. Something that would have been
similar without his implosion. I'd much rather that happen to Fedde than any current prospect.

That’s all fine and good but a MLB season isn’t about finding out about who can play and who can’t. I’m not sure where this narrative started that has gained so much acceptance……
It’s about winning GAMES…..as many Games as possible. This isn’t a minor league team where standings are secondary to development. If this were actually the process the STL Cardinals would have never won a World Series….during Whitey and Tony kids were brought up because they were good and help the team win…..not find out…..if they weren’t good they sent back soon to AAA to find out there.
Have a lot more expectation for how this should really work

You are correct in the goal.
I'll never debate that as a goal.

I no longer believe that we can compare those eras to today so we may disagree on that.
The economics are extreme now. Teams even with fairly deep pockets need reboots, rebuilds
or whatever. To be constantly at the top is left to the teams that have both deep pockets
and are very well run. The teams in the heartland are at a disadvantage, IMO, under the
current rules.

Sure they are. Which means teams in the Heartland have to be smarter, more opportunistic, and more aggressive. Think the Brewers.

Our organization isn’t just reluctant to be more opportunistic and aggressive, they flat out refuse to be.

They did refuse to chase a situation that they got themselves into. I'm not at all in favor of the events that
created a team that was several pieces shy of contending for the NLC. They weren't smarter than anyone in
that.

I'm not saying they can't win, can't be the Brewers or even a Cubs level payroll again. Not sure how this gets
articulated. Just that they did get in a position that the past mistakes caught up, and that's not just with
the players. Expecting a lot more this season doesn't seem realistic.

[EastCoastDave]

I screamed from the top of my lungs to trade this fool's gold in the offseason. There was a huge back and forth. Mo does what Mo does best, now we will get nothing for him. Mo sucking at being GM proven once again.

What did you think they would get for him in a trade?

Remember all those balls thrown into the dirt that the catcher throws out of play? Might get a dozen of this back in a trade.

[EastCoastDave]

I screamed from the top of my lungs to trade this fool's gold in the offseason. There was a huge back and forth. Mo does what Mo does best, now we will get nothing for him. Mo sucking at being GM proven once again.

What did you think they would get for him in a trade?

Remember all those balls thrown into the dirt that the catcher throws out of play? Might get a dozen of those back in a trade.

[Absolut]

Now do mikolas so I dont have to see him pitch in San Diego.

You’re doing the Petco series too? At least the weather will be good.

Just one game. Great park. Great beer. Mediocre baseball!

[Goldfan]

Why isn’t CT holding Dusty Blake accountable for all these terrible starts by ML experienced starters?

I’ll play your game…..who hired Blake?

[HOUCARD]

I remember well how many here were thrilled to trade Tommy for Fedde.

Now everyone is excited to be rid of him.

some trades have a winner and a loser --- some have 2 winners --- that one had 2 losers, the 5 yr $74 million contract won't age well on Tommy.

The Dodgers won the trade. Edman carried them to a WS title. No one forced them to extend him at 5/$75M. The extension was the mistake, not the trade.

The Cards picking up Fedde made sense. Trading him this offseason is purely using hindsight. No one would trade a SP making only $7M in the offseason when the team knew they were short SP. They would only do that if they could pick up someone cheaper given the payroll situation. Who would that be? It was just a bad situation. But, a situation they should have ended 2-3 starts ago.

Dodgers print money.

[Ozziesfan41]

I remember well how many here were thrilled to trade Tommy for Fedde.

Now everyone is excited to be rid of him.

some trades have a winner and a loser --- some have 2 winners --- that one had 2 losers, the 5 yr $74 million contract won't age well on Tommy.

The Dodgers won the trade. Edman carried them to a WS title. No one forced them to extend him at 5/$75M. The extension was the mistake, not the trade.

The Cards picking up Fedde made sense. Trading him this offseason is purely using hindsight. No one would trade a SP making only $7M in the offseason when the team knew they were short SP. They would only do that if they could pick up someone cheaper given the payroll situation. Who would that be? It was just a bad situation. But, a situation they should have ended 2-3 starts ago.

Its not hindsight except to those like Mel who thought it was a good idea to keep him. I and many others knew he was at his peak value and should be traded and was going to regress. They should have traded him and picked up a guy like Quintana who would have been cheaper and better