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Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 May 2025 14:40 pm

kyace wrote: ↑15 May 2025 14:13 pm We still have two months to see how things play out. However if a very good offer comes for Fedde or Matz I think you take it at that point. Helsley is different as he would be harder to replace.

See - Mikolas I would trade, but none of those 3 guys you mention is pushing 40, and all are actually doing well the past several weeks. If they keep that up, I don't see why at least of couple of them shouldn't be part of the team's potential playoff success for the next several years. We don't need our payroll to dwindle to 0 and we don't need an entire roster of under 26's. Nobody actually wins that way. Matz is one of the best lefty relievers out there, and probably has more value to us than he has TV. Fedde should be an extension candidate based on the past 1.5 years (assuming he continues). Helsley has a ceiling of the best closer in baseball. These are guys we shouldn't be in a hurry to get rid of for some unspecified jag prospect just to not miss out on getting some return.

Reopen the wallet and build/maintain for the immediate future.

Has your opinion changed?

ecleme22 wrote: ↑16 May 2025 10:56 am

renostl wrote: ↑16 May 2025 10:35 am

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑16 May 2025 09:55 am In closing, I love watching this team win, play exciting baseball, and have fun doing it. My previous comments were simply me being a realist—I just don’t believe this team is quite there yet. They have some tradeable assets that could help build a stronger future. The ultimate goal should be creating a sustainable contender—one that competes for World Series titles year after year.

The young core is starting to take shape, and there's even more talent in the system coming up behind them.

That said, I don’t think the team needs to hang on to guys like Nolan Arenado, Ryan Helsley, Steven Matz, Erick Fedde, and Miles Mikolas. They aren’t likely to be part of the long-term core, they carry larger contracts, and they could bring value back in trades—especially if packaged with players like Burleson or even Nootbaar.

This isn’t me raining on anyone’s parade or questioning my loyalty as a Cardinals fan. I’m just being honest with myself—we’re not quite there yet, even with this recent surge. That said, we’re a lot closer than I thought we’d be just a few months ago.

Players like Jordan Walker and Nolan Gorman could solve a lot of problems. Drafting a middle-of-the-order bat like LaViolette from Texas A&M could also make a difference. Add a key free agent arm like Framber Valdez, Dylan Cease, or Zac Gallen, and combine that with internal reinforcements like JJW, Graceffo, Crooks, and McGreevy—and this team could be well on its way.

No issue with having different views.
Of the group bolded they have various returns if traded. IMO,MM, NA=little to nothing, RH and SM prospects with some upside
Fedde, I'm honestly on the fence with. Does Sonny get dealt? I haven't the information to know what he will cost vs what he brings back.
Then there's the whole issues of IF the Cardinals are having a good record near the TD. They won't sell if they
are playing well and people are in the stands. Where most will say that is a missed opportunity, It's not horrible to see that
much money drop off, Excitement around the team would be huge and improve revenue versus a maybe 1 0r 2 prospects with
decent not great upside.

The team and organization, IMO, are in a really good spot. Their nucleus is young. Their money on the books is low. They have more prospects in the pipeline, and a draft is coming up.

OF COURSE if the Cards are 8 games under .500 on July 20th, you try and sell. But that's more than two months away.

If the team is 12 over? Maybe get a reliever. Maybe trade Fedde and Burleson for two relievers and bring up McGreevy.

There are so many possibilities that aren't "SELL SELL SELL. We need prospects! Stay the course! We must have a great team in 2029!"

The team can be creative and still compete.

Fast forward to July 25th and the Cards 14 games over .500. Would love to get an update from Basil then...

Still want that update Switzerland?

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑19 Jul 2025 11:53 am

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 May 2025 14:40 pm

kyace wrote: ↑15 May 2025 14:13 pm We still have two months to see how things play out. However if a very good offer comes for Fedde or Matz I think you take it at that point. Helsley is different as he would be harder to replace.

See - Mikolas I would trade, but none of those 3 guys you mention is pushing 40, and all are actually doing well the past several weeks. If they keep that up, I don't see why at least of couple of them shouldn't be part of the team's potential playoff success for the next several years. We don't need our payroll to dwindle to 0 and we don't need an entire roster of under 26's. Nobody actually wins that way. Matz is one of the best lefty relievers out there, and probably has more value to us than he has TV. Fedde should be an extension candidate based on the past 1.5 years (assuming he continues). Helsley has a ceiling of the best closer in baseball. These are guys we shouldn't be in a hurry to get rid of for some unspecified jag prospect just to not miss out on getting some return.

Reopen the wallet and build/maintain for the immediate future.

Has your opinion changed?

Depends on the return. I'm not one of those greedy/OCD types that can't stand the thought of missing out of a bag of balls for a FA to be. I'm not against trading someone that doesn't fit at all. But I also recognize that a near zero return really carries no missed opportunity cost if the trade can't be made, so its not worth getting as worked up about as lots of posters act like it is.

I still like Matz in the pen. Helsley is still better than a lot of closers - and we have to turn the page on this extended reset mindset and start competing very soon or Blooms tenure might not be as long as hoped. 2026 should be realistic considering 2023 was rock bottom. Especially if Tucker leaves the Cubs and opens up the Central. and/or PCA comes back to earth next year. So if we trade Helsley, who replaces him next year? Also what do we really get in return? We can't just keep blowing up the roster for JAGs and then claiming they are great prospects. What did we get in 2023? King was awful in his 2nd inning last night, Saggese can't hit MLB pitching yet and can't field 3b, and Roby is always hurt. Drew Rom was a complete waste. Robberse has fallen off the map (i think he was in that trade somehow). Prieto isn't needed with JJW on the way. If that's the best we can get in return, it doesn't give us as much as Helsley and Matz actually produce at their best. So we have to replace them from elsewhere. Also Fedde was good in April and May - we need to replace that production from somewhere too.

Roster turnover has to be about more than just "getting what you can" for those you don't want/need anymore. It has to be smart trades for targeted talent (often already proven talent or safe/projectable MLB ready) that actually meet needs we have or will have next year. And replaces the production we need, not the low watermark production the asset traded away had dipped to before being traded. Nado was an MVP level bat in 2022. Mikolas won 18 games in 2018 or thereabouts. Replace that, not what they are doing this year.

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑19 Jul 2025 11:56 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑16 May 2025 10:56 am

renostl wrote: ↑16 May 2025 10:35 am

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑16 May 2025 09:55 am In closing, I love watching this team win, play exciting baseball, and have fun doing it. My previous comments were simply me being a realist—I just don’t believe this team is quite there yet. They have some tradeable assets that could help build a stronger future. The ultimate goal should be creating a sustainable contender—one that competes for World Series titles year after year.

The young core is starting to take shape, and there's even more talent in the system coming up behind them.

That said, I don’t think the team needs to hang on to guys like Nolan Arenado, Ryan Helsley, Steven Matz, Erick Fedde, and Miles Mikolas. They aren’t likely to be part of the long-term core, they carry larger contracts, and they could bring value back in trades—especially if packaged with players like Burleson or even Nootbaar.

This isn’t me raining on anyone’s parade or questioning my loyalty as a Cardinals fan. I’m just being honest with myself—we’re not quite there yet, even with this recent surge. That said, we’re a lot closer than I thought we’d be just a few months ago.

Players like Jordan Walker and Nolan Gorman could solve a lot of problems. Drafting a middle-of-the-order bat like LaViolette from Texas A&M could also make a difference. Add a key free agent arm like Framber Valdez, Dylan Cease, or Zac Gallen, and combine that with internal reinforcements like JJW, Graceffo, Crooks, and McGreevy—and this team could be well on its way.

No issue with having different views.
Of the group bolded they have various returns if traded. IMO,MM, NA=little to nothing, RH and SM prospects with some upside
Fedde, I'm honestly on the fence with. Does Sonny get dealt? I haven't the information to know what he will cost vs what he brings back.
Then there's the whole issues of IF the Cardinals are having a good record near the TD. They won't sell if they
are playing well and people are in the stands. Where most will say that is a missed opportunity, It's not horrible to see that
much money drop off, Excitement around the team would be huge and improve revenue versus a maybe 1 0r 2 prospects with
decent not great upside.

The team and organization, IMO, are in a really good spot. Their nucleus is young. Their money on the books is low. They have more prospects in the pipeline, and a draft is coming up.

OF COURSE if the Cards are 8 games under .500 on July 20th, you try and sell. But that's more than two months away.

If the team is 12 over? Maybe get a reliever. Maybe trade Fedde and Burleson for two relievers and bring up McGreevy.

There are so many possibilities that aren't "SELL SELL SELL. We need prospects! Stay the course! We must have a great team in 2029!"

The team can be creative and still compete.

Fast forward to July 25th and the Cards 14 games over .500. Would love to get an update from Basil then...

Still want that update Switzerland?

Here they are. A .500 ish team that most predicted +/- a few games.

They have a group of guys that while they are not in a position that they have to do anything, if they
doing nothing seems like an error. The fans haven't returned at all in any number. I doubt 5-6 wins or losses
provides much impact. It's been a priority in my view to get the fan interest back. Even if that meant not
making a wiser choice and moving pending FA if somehow the Cards were in contention enough to
increase that fan interest.

It's all a little intertwined. NA's and Oli's situations seem to be step 1, IMO, it adds the most
clarity for 2026. Then, as what seems like for 20 years now, chose the players in the outfield.
Can JJ take Noots spot there for a couple seasons then return to the infield, or does
Church, Beaz, a FA signing or a trade provide those answers?

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑19 Jul 2025 11:56 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑16 May 2025 10:56 am

renostl wrote: ↑16 May 2025 10:35 am

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑16 May 2025 09:55 am In closing, I love watching this team win, play exciting baseball, and have fun doing it. My previous comments were simply me being a realist—I just don’t believe this team is quite there yet. They have some tradeable assets that could help build a stronger future. The ultimate goal should be creating a sustainable contender—one that competes for World Series titles year after year.

The young core is starting to take shape, and there's even more talent in the system coming up behind them.

That said, I don’t think the team needs to hang on to guys like Nolan Arenado, Ryan Helsley, Steven Matz, Erick Fedde, and Miles Mikolas. They aren’t likely to be part of the long-term core, they carry larger contracts, and they could bring value back in trades—especially if packaged with players like Burleson or even Nootbaar.

This isn’t me raining on anyone’s parade or questioning my loyalty as a Cardinals fan. I’m just being honest with myself—we’re not quite there yet, even with this recent surge. That said, we’re a lot closer than I thought we’d be just a few months ago.

Players like Jordan Walker and Nolan Gorman could solve a lot of problems. Drafting a middle-of-the-order bat like LaViolette from Texas A&M could also make a difference. Add a key free agent arm like Framber Valdez, Dylan Cease, or Zac Gallen, and combine that with internal reinforcements like JJW, Graceffo, Crooks, and McGreevy—and this team could be well on its way.

No issue with having different views.
Of the group bolded they have various returns if traded. IMO,MM, NA=little to nothing, RH and SM prospects with some upside
Fedde, I'm honestly on the fence with. Does Sonny get dealt? I haven't the information to know what he will cost vs what he brings back.
Then there's the whole issues of IF the Cardinals are having a good record near the TD. They won't sell if they
are playing well and people are in the stands. Where most will say that is a missed opportunity, It's not horrible to see that
much money drop off, Excitement around the team would be huge and improve revenue versus a maybe 1 0r 2 prospects with
decent not great upside.

The team and organization, IMO, are in a really good spot. Their nucleus is young. Their money on the books is low. They have more prospects in the pipeline, and a draft is coming up.

OF COURSE if the Cards are 8 games under .500 on July 20th, you try and sell. But that's more than two months away.

If the team is 12 over? Maybe get a reliever. Maybe trade Fedde and Burleson for two relievers and bring up McGreevy.

There are so many possibilities that aren't "SELL SELL SELL. We need prospects! Stay the course! We must have a great team in 2029!"

The team can be creative and still compete.

Fast forward to July 25th and the Cards 14 games over .500. Would love to get an update from Basil then...

Still want that update Switzerland?

Sure.

I am still set on 78 wins for this year.

I still have 'em at 76-86.

butsir01 wrote: ↑19 Jul 2025 21:33 pm I still have 'em at 76-86.

25-38 the rest of the way?

That is what I had 'em before the season in the prediction thread and earlier in the season. When they shed players at the deadline, I believe they will play some pretty forgettable baseball for the rest of this year, yes. They sure fooled me earlier this year and they should not have, for many reasons.