STLtoday.com

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 09:08 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:54 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:43 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:34 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 18:03 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:40 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 12:47 pm

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

Not particularly

Don't look now but Saggese had better power numbers in milb than Wetherholt.

You're not seriously comparing Saggese (J.A.G.) to a former NCAA batting champion and Top 5 MiLB prospect, right?

He's nowhere near the hitter JJW is and JJ will hit for way more power in MLB than Saggese (J.A.G.) ever will.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... gges000tho

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... ther000jj-

I stated a fact. AT 21 Saggese hit 26 HR 111 RBI .306 avg in AA and AAA.

The question is whether Gorman starts. I'd put Saggese there because given 500 plate appearances he would hit as many home runs as Gorman with better contact. He is young enough to progress.

Saggese. Winn. Wetherholt. Burleson.

Saggese doesn't even belong in the same sentence talent-wise w/JJW.

NO chance I want him ever getting 500 PA's and NO WAY he'd hit as many HR's as Gorman in the same # of PA's.

Gorman
1 HR in every 21.36 PA's

Saggese
1 HR in every 115.6 PA's

Comping J.A.G to Gorman power wise is inane, comping him to JJW is just .

Saggese's a back of the bench utility player, J. A. G., not sure what the fascination is w/this guy.

Strong write. Now. Use that same logic and imagine the boards stance against NG at third.

Both moods live in the same bedroom.

Fully understand his defensive liabilities.

But I. Hererra is the guy they should be targeting for DH (as well as some time at 1st base to acclimate him to the position).

Gorman is fairly easy to manage if NADO is dealt and he's (likely) the everyday 3rd baseman (and he doesn't need to platoon as he's better in his career vs LHP--.717 OPS than Burleson in is career vs LHP--.606 OPS and I don't hear talk of Bumbles being platooned).

In games where the Cardinals have a lead in the late innings you can switch him out for a better defender.

But to comp his bat vs Saggese is a joke.

Gorman posses raw, natural power.

As I've posted multiple times, his glove will never make anyone forget any of the great Cardinals 3rd baseman.

For his career at 3rd base (SSS) he's a -3 DRS in 537 innings.

Could he keep his DRS under a -6? Maybe

If he does and HE HITS for POWER, then he would be an asset.

Saggese is a better hitter than Gorman. Period. (Minus the raw power.)

If Saggese is given a long runway like Walker and Gorman have been allowed to have, you will be pleasantly surprised. Think young Matr Carpenter.

I know your feelings on him Rock, but I think you will happily eat crow if he gets a true shot!

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 09:16 am It's too soon to tell, so I could easily be wrong, but here is what I see with Saggese; a little above average bat to ball skills, average-ish power, average-ish glove, average-ish speed. I think he will be a solid major league player with positional versatility. A nice player to have- not a star.

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 09:08 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:54 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:43 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:34 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 18:03 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:40 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 12:47 pm

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

Not particularly

Don't look now but Saggese had better power numbers in milb than Wetherholt.

You're not seriously comparing Saggese (J.A.G.) to a former NCAA batting champion and Top 5 MiLB prospect, right?

He's nowhere near the hitter JJW is and JJ will hit for way more power in MLB than Saggese (J.A.G.) ever will.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... gges000tho

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... ther000jj-

I stated a fact. AT 21 Saggese hit 26 HR 111 RBI .306 avg in AA and AAA.

The question is whether Gorman starts. I'd put Saggese there because given 500 plate appearances he would hit as many home runs as Gorman with better contact. He is young enough to progress.

Saggese. Winn. Wetherholt. Burleson.

Saggese doesn't even belong in the same sentence talent-wise w/JJW.

NO chance I want him ever getting 500 PA's and NO WAY he'd hit as many HR's as Gorman in the same # of PA's.

Gorman
1 HR in every 21.36 PA's

Saggese
1 HR in every 115.6 PA's

Comping J.A.G to Gorman power wise is inane, comping him to JJW is just .

Saggese's a back of the bench utility player, J. A. G., not sure what the fascination is w/this guy.

Strong write. Now. Use that same logic and imagine the boards stance against NG at third.

Both moods live in the same bedroom.

Fully understand his defensive liabilities.

But I. Hererra is the guy they should be targeting for DH (as well as some time at 1st base to acclimate him to the position).

Gorman is fairly easy to manage if NADO is dealt and he's (likely) the everyday 3rd baseman (and he doesn't need to platoon as he's better in his career vs LHP--.717 OPS than Burleson in is career vs LHP--.606 OPS and I don't hear talk of Bumbles being platooned).

In games where the Cardinals have a lead in the late innings you can switch him out for a better defender.

But to comp his bat vs Saggese is a joke.

Gorman posses raw, natural power.

As I've posted multiple times, his glove will never make anyone forget any of the great Cardinals 3rd baseman.

For his career at 3rd base (SSS) he's a -3 DRS in 537 innings.

Could he keep his DRS under a -6? Maybe

If he does and HE HITS for POWER, then he would be an asset.

Saggese is a better hitter than Gorman. Period. (Minus the raw power.)

If Saggese is given a long runway like Walker and Gorman have been allowed to have, you will be pleasantly surprised. Think young Matr Carpenter.

I know your feelings on him Rock, but I think you will happily eat crow if he gets a true shot!

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 09:09 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:54 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:43 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:34 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 18:03 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:40 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 12:47 pm

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

Not particularly

Don't look now but Saggese had better power numbers in milb than Wetherholt.

You're not seriously comparing Saggese (J.A.G.) to a former NCAA batting champion and Top 5 MiLB prospect, right?

He's nowhere near the hitter JJW is and JJ will hit for way more power in MLB than Saggese (J.A.G.) ever will.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... gges000tho

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... ther000jj-

I stated a fact. AT 21 Saggese hit 26 HR 111 RBI .306 avg in AA and AAA.

The question is whether Gorman starts. I'd put Saggese there because given 500 plate appearances he would hit as many home runs as Gorman with better contact. He is young enough to progress.

Saggese. Winn. Wetherholt. Burleson.

Saggese doesn't even belong in the same sentence talent-wise w/JJW.

NO chance I want him ever getting 500 PA's and NO WAY he'd hit as many HR's as Gorman in the same # of PA's.

Gorman
1 HR in every 21.36 PA's

Saggese
1 HR in every 115.6 PA's

Comping J.A.G to Gorman power wise is inane, comping him to JJW is just .

Saggese's a back of the bench utility player, J. A. G., not sure what the fascination is w/this guy.

Strong write. Now. Use that same logic and imagine the boards stance against NG at third.

Both moods live in the same bedroom.

Fully understand his defensive liabilities.

But I. Hererra is the guy they should be targeting for DH (as well as some time at 1st base to acclimate him to the position).

Gorman is fairly easy to manage if NADO is dealt and he's (likely) the everyday 3rd baseman (and he doesn't need to platoon as he's better in his career vs LHP--.717 OPS than Burleson in is career vs LHP--.606 OPS and I don't hear talk of Bumbles being platooned).

In games where the Cardinals have a lead in the late innings you can switch him out for a better defender.

But to comp his bat vs Saggese is a joke.

Gorman posses raw, natural power.

As I've posted multiple times, his glove will never make anyone forget any of the great Cardinals 3rd baseman.

For his career at 3rd base (SSS) he's a -3 DRS in 537 innings.

Could he keep his DRS under a -6? Maybe

If he does and HE HITS for POWER, then he would be an asset.

I think that’s another good write. I don’t think we disagree much. I think we both think his glove alone is a liability. That’s my position.
The fielding affects on our young pitching, which is a major focus in this rebuild. They should be supported with at a minimum quality defense.

I still wouldn’t mind Nado this year. Goes more towards pitcher growth than his hitting.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 10:14 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 09:09 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:54 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:43 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:34 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 18:03 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:40 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 12:47 pm

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

Not particularly

Don't look now but Saggese had better power numbers in milb than Wetherholt.

You're not seriously comparing Saggese (J.A.G.) to a former NCAA batting champion and Top 5 MiLB prospect, right?

He's nowhere near the hitter JJW is and JJ will hit for way more power in MLB than Saggese (J.A.G.) ever will.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... gges000tho

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... ther000jj-

I stated a fact. AT 21 Saggese hit 26 HR 111 RBI .306 avg in AA and AAA.

The question is whether Gorman starts. I'd put Saggese there because given 500 plate appearances he would hit as many home runs as Gorman with better contact. He is young enough to progress.

Saggese. Winn. Wetherholt. Burleson.

Saggese doesn't even belong in the same sentence talent-wise w/JJW.

NO chance I want him ever getting 500 PA's and NO WAY he'd hit as many HR's as Gorman in the same # of PA's.

Gorman
1 HR in every 21.36 PA's

Saggese
1 HR in every 115.6 PA's

Comping J.A.G to Gorman power wise is inane, comping him to JJW is just .

Saggese's a back of the bench utility player, J. A. G., not sure what the fascination is w/this guy.

Strong write. Now. Use that same logic and imagine the boards stance against NG at third.

Both moods live in the same bedroom.

Fully understand his defensive liabilities.

But I. Hererra is the guy they should be targeting for DH (as well as some time at 1st base to acclimate him to the position).

Gorman is fairly easy to manage if NADO is dealt and he's (likely) the everyday 3rd baseman (and he doesn't need to platoon as he's better in his career vs LHP--.717 OPS than Burleson in is career vs LHP--.606 OPS and I don't hear talk of Bumbles being platooned).

In games where the Cardinals have a lead in the late innings you can switch him out for a better defender.

But to comp his bat vs Saggese is a joke.

Gorman posses raw, natural power.

As I've posted multiple times, his glove will never make anyone forget any of the great Cardinals 3rd baseman.

For his career at 3rd base (SSS) he's a -3 DRS in 537 innings.

Could he keep his DRS under a -6? Maybe

If he does and HE HITS for POWER, then he would be an asset.

I think that’s another good write. I don’t think we disagree much. I think we both think his glove alone is a liability. That’s my position.
The fielding affects on our young pitching, which is a major focus in this rebuild. They should be supported with at a minimum quality defense.

I still wouldn’t mind Nado this year. Goes more towards pitcher growth than his hitting.

Glove is absolutely a liability, though how many runs or games it would actually cost the Cardinals is unknown at this time.

I can see your point on the young starters needing better defense than Norman will give them.

I'm starting to wonder if NADO might start the season here (no takers this winter).............then be dealt by midseason if:

#1
He gets off to a decent start

or

#2
A contender loses their 3rd baseman to a LT injury

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 10:18 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 10:14 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 09:09 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:54 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:43 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:34 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 18:03 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:40 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 12:47 pm

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

Not particularly

Don't look now but Saggese had better power numbers in milb than Wetherholt.

You're not seriously comparing Saggese (J.A.G.) to a former NCAA batting champion and Top 5 MiLB prospect, right?

He's nowhere near the hitter JJW is and JJ will hit for way more power in MLB than Saggese (J.A.G.) ever will.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... gges000tho

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... ther000jj-

I stated a fact. AT 21 Saggese hit 26 HR 111 RBI .306 avg in AA and AAA.

The question is whether Gorman starts. I'd put Saggese there because given 500 plate appearances he would hit as many home runs as Gorman with better contact. He is young enough to progress.

Saggese. Winn. Wetherholt. Burleson.

Saggese doesn't even belong in the same sentence talent-wise w/JJW.

NO chance I want him ever getting 500 PA's and NO WAY he'd hit as many HR's as Gorman in the same # of PA's.

Gorman
1 HR in every 21.36 PA's

Saggese
1 HR in every 115.6 PA's

Comping J.A.G to Gorman power wise is inane, comping him to JJW is just .

Saggese's a back of the bench utility player, J. A. G., not sure what the fascination is w/this guy.

Strong write. Now. Use that same logic and imagine the boards stance against NG at third.

Both moods live in the same bedroom.

Fully understand his defensive liabilities.

But I. Hererra is the guy they should be targeting for DH (as well as some time at 1st base to acclimate him to the position).

Gorman is fairly easy to manage if NADO is dealt and he's (likely) the everyday 3rd baseman (and he doesn't need to platoon as he's better in his career vs LHP--.717 OPS than Burleson in is career vs LHP--.606 OPS and I don't hear talk of Bumbles being platooned).

In games where the Cardinals have a lead in the late innings you can switch him out for a better defender.

But to comp his bat vs Saggese is a joke.

Gorman posses raw, natural power.

As I've posted multiple times, his glove will never make anyone forget any of the great Cardinals 3rd baseman.

For his career at 3rd base (SSS) he's a -3 DRS in 537 innings.

Could he keep his DRS under a -6? Maybe

If he does and HE HITS for POWER, then he would be an asset.

I think that’s another good write. I don’t think we disagree much. I think we both think his glove alone is a liability. That’s my position.
The fielding affects on our young pitching, which is a major focus in this rebuild. They should be supported with at a minimum quality defense.

I still wouldn’t mind Nado this year. Goes more towards pitcher growth than his hitting.

Glove is absolutely a liability, though how many runs or games it would actually cost the Cardinals is unknown at this time.

I can see your point on the young starters needing better defense than Norman will give them.

I'm starting to wonder if NADO might start the season here (no takers this winter).............then be dealt by midseason if:

#1
He gets off to a decent start

or

#2
A contender loses their 3rd baseman to a LT injury

Yes. I think both your scenarios come out. There will be injuries, and I bet, he’s a different hitter, more for average, with mucho singles and doubles.

Comeback player of the year?

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 10:23 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 10:18 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 10:14 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 09:09 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:54 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:43 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:34 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 18:03 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:40 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 12:47 pm

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

Not particularly

Don't look now but Saggese had better power numbers in milb than Wetherholt.

You're not seriously comparing Saggese (J.A.G.) to a former NCAA batting champion and Top 5 MiLB prospect, right?

He's nowhere near the hitter JJW is and JJ will hit for way more power in MLB than Saggese (J.A.G.) ever will.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... gges000tho

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... ther000jj-

I stated a fact. AT 21 Saggese hit 26 HR 111 RBI .306 avg in AA and AAA.

The question is whether Gorman starts. I'd put Saggese there because given 500 plate appearances he would hit as many home runs as Gorman with better contact. He is young enough to progress.

Saggese. Winn. Wetherholt. Burleson.

Saggese doesn't even belong in the same sentence talent-wise w/JJW.

NO chance I want him ever getting 500 PA's and NO WAY he'd hit as many HR's as Gorman in the same # of PA's.

Gorman
1 HR in every 21.36 PA's

Saggese
1 HR in every 115.6 PA's

Comping J.A.G to Gorman power wise is inane, comping him to JJW is just .

Saggese's a back of the bench utility player, J. A. G., not sure what the fascination is w/this guy.

Strong write. Now. Use that same logic and imagine the boards stance against NG at third.

Both moods live in the same bedroom.

Fully understand his defensive liabilities.

But I. Hererra is the guy they should be targeting for DH (as well as some time at 1st base to acclimate him to the position).

Gorman is fairly easy to manage if NADO is dealt and he's (likely) the everyday 3rd baseman (and he doesn't need to platoon as he's better in his career vs LHP--.717 OPS than Burleson in is career vs LHP--.606 OPS and I don't hear talk of Bumbles being platooned).

In games where the Cardinals have a lead in the late innings you can switch him out for a better defender.

But to comp his bat vs Saggese is a joke.

Gorman posses raw, natural power.

As I've posted multiple times, his glove will never make anyone forget any of the great Cardinals 3rd baseman.

For his career at 3rd base (SSS) he's a -3 DRS in 537 innings.

Could he keep his DRS under a -6? Maybe

If he does and HE HITS for POWER, then he would be an asset.

I think that’s another good write. I don’t think we disagree much. I think we both think his glove alone is a liability. That’s my position.
The fielding affects on our young pitching, which is a major focus in this rebuild. They should be supported with at a minimum quality defense.

I still wouldn’t mind Nado this year. Goes more towards pitcher growth than his hitting.

Glove is absolutely a liability, though how many runs or games it would actually cost the Cardinals is unknown at this time.

I can see your point on the young starters needing better defense than Norman will give them.

I'm starting to wonder if NADO might start the season here (no takers this winter).............then be dealt by midseason if:

#1
He gets off to a decent start

or

#2
A contender loses their 3rd baseman to a LT injury

Yes. I think both your scenarios come out. There will be injuries, and I bet, he’s a different hitter, more for average, with mucho singles and doubles.

Comeback player of the year?

I've said the same BDog about NADO as we now know he was really hurting last season.

Not sure about CBPOTY but sure would like to see it if he's here since I've always liked NADO.
[/quote

He doesn’t even have to win any award. The mere mention of any award means he is having a good year. I think his walks go up, his pop outs to the right side drops, and he hits shots. Homeruns, 5-10.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 10:36 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 10:23 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 10:18 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 10:14 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 09:09 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:54 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:43 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:34 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 18:03 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:40 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 12:47 pm

Not particularly

Don't look now but Saggese had better power numbers in milb than Wetherholt.

You're not seriously comparing Saggese (J.A.G.) to a former NCAA batting champion and Top 5 MiLB prospect, right?

He's nowhere near the hitter JJW is and JJ will hit for way more power in MLB than Saggese (J.A.G.) ever will.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... gges000tho

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... ther000jj-

I stated a fact. AT 21 Saggese hit 26 HR 111 RBI .306 avg in AA and AAA.

The question is whether Gorman starts. I'd put Saggese there because given 500 plate appearances he would hit as many home runs as Gorman with better contact. He is young enough to progress.

Saggese. Winn. Wetherholt. Burleson.

Saggese doesn't even belong in the same sentence talent-wise w/JJW.

NO chance I want him ever getting 500 PA's and NO WAY he'd hit as many HR's as Gorman in the same # of PA's.

Gorman
1 HR in every 21.36 PA's

Saggese
1 HR in every 115.6 PA's

Comping J.A.G to Gorman power wise is inane, comping him to JJW is just .

Saggese's a back of the bench utility player, J. A. G., not sure what the fascination is w/this guy.

Strong write. Now. Use that same logic and imagine the boards stance against NG at third.

Both moods live in the same bedroom.

Fully understand his defensive liabilities.

But I. Hererra is the guy they should be targeting for DH (as well as some time at 1st base to acclimate him to the position).

Gorman is fairly easy to manage if NADO is dealt and he's (likely) the everyday 3rd baseman (and he doesn't need to platoon as he's better in his career vs LHP--.717 OPS than Burleson in is career vs LHP--.606 OPS and I don't hear talk of Bumbles being platooned).

In games where the Cardinals have a lead in the late innings you can switch him out for a better defender.

But to comp his bat vs Saggese is a joke.

Gorman posses raw, natural power.

As I've posted multiple times, his glove will never make anyone forget any of the great Cardinals 3rd baseman.

For his career at 3rd base (SSS) he's a -3 DRS in 537 innings.

Could he keep his DRS under a -6? Maybe

If he does and HE HITS for POWER, then he would be an asset.

I think that’s another good write. I don’t think we disagree much. I think we both think his glove alone is a liability. That’s my position.
The fielding affects on our young pitching, which is a major focus in this rebuild. They should be supported with at a minimum quality defense.

I still wouldn’t mind Nado this year. Goes more towards pitcher growth than his hitting.

Glove is absolutely a liability, though how many runs or games it would actually cost the Cardinals is unknown at this time.

I can see your point on the young starters needing better defense than Norman will give them.

I'm starting to wonder if NADO might start the season here (no takers this winter).............then be dealt by midseason if:

#1
He gets off to a decent start

or

#2
A contender loses their 3rd baseman to a LT injury

Yes. I think both your scenarios come out. There will be injuries, and I bet, he’s a different hitter, more for average, with mucho singles and doubles.

Comeback player of the year?

I've said the same BDog about NADO as we now know he was really hurting last season.

Not sure about CBPOTY but sure would like to see it if he's here since I've always liked NADO.
[/quote

He doesn’t even have to win any award. The mere mention of any award means he is having a good year. I think his walks go up, his pop outs to the right side drops, and he hits shots. Homeruns, 5-10.

If the shoulder/finger injuries are indeed fully healed (they are), then he could easily hit 12-15+ HR's if he gets 550+ PA's.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:34 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 18:03 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:40 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 12:47 pm

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

Not particularly

Don't look now but Saggese had better power numbers in milb than Wetherholt.

You're not seriously comparing Saggese (J.A.G.) to a former NCAA batting champion and Top 5 MiLB prospect, right?

He's nowhere near the hitter JJW is and JJ will hit for way more power in MLB than Saggese (J.A.G.) ever will.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... gges000tho

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... ther000jj-

I stated a fact. AT 21 Saggese hit 26 HR 111 RBI .306 avg in AA and AAA.

The question is whether Gorman starts. I'd put Saggese there because given 500 plate appearances he would hit as many home runs as Gorman with better contact. He is young enough to progress.

Saggese. Winn. Wetherholt. Burleson.

Saggese doesn't even belong in the same sentence talent-wise w/JJW.

NO chance I want him ever getting 500 PA's and NO WAY he'd hit as many HR's as Gorman in the same # of PA's.

Gorman
1 HR in every 21.36 PA's

Saggese
1 HR in every 115.6 PA's

Comping J.A.G to Gorman power wise is inane, comping him to JJW is just .

Saggese's a back of the bench utility player, J. A. G., not sure what the fascination is w/this guy.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 13:30 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:34 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 18:03 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:40 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 12:47 pm

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

Not particularly

Don't look now but Saggese had better power numbers in milb than Wetherholt.

You're not seriously comparing Saggese (J.A.G.) to a former NCAA batting champion and Top 5 MiLB prospect, right?

He's nowhere near the hitter JJW is and JJ will hit for way more power in MLB than Saggese (J.A.G.) ever will.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... gges000tho

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... ther000jj-

I stated a fact. AT 21 Saggese hit 26 HR 111 RBI .306 avg in AA and AAA.

The question is whether Gorman starts. I'd put Saggese there because given 500 plate appearances he would hit as many home runs as Gorman with better contact. He is young enough to progress.

Saggese. Winn. Wetherholt. Burleson.

Saggese doesn't even belong in the same sentence talent-wise w/JJW.

NO chance I want him ever getting 500 PA's and NO WAY he'd hit as many HR's as Gorman in the same # of PA's.

Gorman
1 HR in every 21.36 PA's

Saggese
1 HR in every 115.6 PA's

Comping J.A.G to Gorman power wise is inane, comping him to JJW is just .

Saggese's a back of the bench utility player, J. A. G., not sure what the fascination is w/this guy.

If Gorman is our everyday 3B in 2026 we have problems.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 06:24 am

Cardinals1964 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 21:57 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 18:03 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:40 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 12:47 pm

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

Not particularly

Don't look now but Saggese had better power numbers in milb than Wetherholt.

You're not seriously comparing Saggese (J.A.G.) to a former NCAA batting champion and Top 5 MiLB prospect, right?

He's nowhere near the hitter JJW is and JJ will hit for way more power in MLB than Saggese (J.A.G.) ever will.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... gges000tho

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... ther000jj-

I stated a fact. AT 21 Saggese hit 26 HR 111 RBI .306 avg in AA and AAA.

The question is whether Gorman starts. I'd put Saggese there because given 500 plate appearances he would hit as many home runs as Gorman with better contact. He is young enough to progress.

Saggese. Winn. Wetherholt. Burleson.

Saggese had 1HR in AAA at 21.

In how many games?

I'm not saying he is great. Just saying his numbers are as good as Wetherholt at that age. Being impressed by NCAA stats is fools gold. Check Caglianone's numbers.

Cardinals1964 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 15:34 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 06:24 am

Cardinals1964 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 21:57 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 18:03 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:40 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 12:47 pm

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

Not particularly

Don't look now but Saggese had better power numbers in milb than Wetherholt.

You're not seriously comparing Saggese (J.A.G.) to a former NCAA batting champion and Top 5 MiLB prospect, right?

He's nowhere near the hitter JJW is and JJ will hit for way more power in MLB than Saggese (J.A.G.) ever will.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... gges000tho

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... ther000jj-

I stated a fact. AT 21 Saggese hit 26 HR 111 RBI .306 avg in AA and AAA.

The question is whether Gorman starts. I'd put Saggese there because given 500 plate appearances he would hit as many home runs as Gorman with better contact. He is young enough to progress.

Saggese. Winn. Wetherholt. Burleson.

Saggese had 1HR in AAA at 21.

In how many games?

I'm not saying he is great. Just saying his numbers are as good as Wetherholt at that age. Being impressed by NCAA stats is fools gold. Check Caglianone's numbers.

You’re comparing their age 21 season. Saggese spent little time in AAA. So, what are you comparing to?
Wetherholt was in college most of his 21 year old season. He only had 126 at bats in minors.
JJ has a higher slugging percentage, too.
Don’t nitpick your comparison, and I won’t nitpick mine

Jatalk wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 06:49 am I’ve seen enough of Gorman. I have not given up on Saggese.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 13:30 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:34 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 18:03 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:40 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 12:47 pm

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

Not particularly

Don't look now but Saggese had better power numbers in milb than Wetherholt.

You're not seriously comparing Saggese (J.A.G.) to a former NCAA batting champion and Top 5 MiLB prospect, right?

He's nowhere near the hitter JJW is and JJ will hit for way more power in MLB than Saggese (J.A.G.) ever will.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... gges000tho

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... ther000jj-

I stated a fact. AT 21 Saggese hit 26 HR 111 RBI .306 avg in AA and AAA.

The question is whether Gorman starts. I'd put Saggese there because given 500 plate appearances he would hit as many home runs as Gorman with better contact. He is young enough to progress.

Saggese. Winn. Wetherholt. Burleson.

Saggese doesn't even belong in the same sentence talent-wise w/JJW.

NO chance I want him ever getting 500 PA's and NO WAY he'd hit as many HR's as Gorman in the same # of PA's.

Gorman
1 HR in every 21.36 PA's

Saggese
1 HR in every 115.6 PA's

Comping J.A.G to Gorman power wise is inane, comping him to JJW is just .

Saggese's a back of the bench utility player, J. A. G., not sure what the fascination is w/this guy.

If Gorman is our everyday 3B in 2026 we have problems.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 21:41 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 13:30 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Dec 2025 08:34 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 18:03 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:40 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 12:47 pm

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

Not particularly

Don't look now but Saggese had better power numbers in milb than Wetherholt.

You're not seriously comparing Saggese (J.A.G.) to a former NCAA batting champion and Top 5 MiLB prospect, right?

He's nowhere near the hitter JJW is and JJ will hit for way more power in MLB than Saggese (J.A.G.) ever will.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... gges000tho

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... ther000jj-

I stated a fact. AT 21 Saggese hit 26 HR 111 RBI .306 avg in AA and AAA.

The question is whether Gorman starts. I'd put Saggese there because given 500 plate appearances he would hit as many home runs as Gorman with better contact. He is young enough to progress.

Saggese. Winn. Wetherholt. Burleson.

Saggese doesn't even belong in the same sentence talent-wise w/JJW.

NO chance I want him ever getting 500 PA's and NO WAY he'd hit as many HR's as Gorman in the same # of PA's.

Gorman
1 HR in every 21.36 PA's

Saggese
1 HR in every 115.6 PA's

Comping J.A.G to Gorman power wise is inane, comping him to JJW is just .

Saggese's a back of the bench utility player, J. A. G., not sure what the fascination is w/this guy.

If Gorman is our everyday 3B in 2026 we have problems.

Opening day starting lineups aren’t forever.