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OldRed wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 08:35 amI don't recall saying I was upset. My problem has been it should have started 4 or 5 years ago before they lost a ton of their fan base in attendance. I felt like the signing of Lynn and Gibson was a step backwards.

Okay, well, basically everything I have heard from you has indicated that you are upset that we are rebuilding and not out signingor trading with 2026 in mind, but okay. I'll assume now that you aren't upset about this.

If your problem then is that it wasn't started 4-5 years ago, there's nothing we can do about that. Some people at the time said that Goldschmidt and/or Arenado should have been traded a few years ago, but I don't remember too many on here at the time agreeing with that. Most wanted to continue adding.

But yea, signing Lynn and Gibson was probably the right thing to do if they really wanted to compete that year, but it obviously would have been a lot better if we had pitchers like Fitts and Dobbins, like we just traded for, who could fill those innings while costing way less money, which would have allowed us to maybe pursue help elsewhere.

Goldfan wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 08:49 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 08:41 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 08:39 am When the Bloom trade adventure started this offseason the narrative was
“This is a rebuild…returning good to very good ML ready players from desirable vet trades will lead this process to a winning club by ‘27….then BDW will SPEND”
Now since we’ve seen the returns the replies are:
“What did you think we would get for a Old downside of career SP and an old 1B who used to be a C and doesn’t really produce all that good numbers”

The tone sure has turned
Perhaps Donny will save the story……
But please don’t ever mention that BDW is saving Multi Millions every time a trade headline drops.

Before Dobbins freak injury, he was pacing to have a better season than Liberatore.

A better season than Libby…….well if that’s the range we’re shooting for…..

Getting a starting pitcher for WC who’s better than 2025 Libby with almost full team control is a really good deal.

And that’s not counting the two young pitchers in the deal…

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 09:18 am

OldRed wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 08:35 amI don't recall saying I was upset. My problem has been it should have started 4 or 5 years ago before they lost a ton of their fan base in attendance. I felt like the signing of Lynn and Gibson was a step backwards.

Okay, well, basically everything I have heard from you has indicated that you are upset that we are rebuilding and not out signingor trading with 2026 in mind, but okay. I'll assume now that you aren't upset about this.

If your problem then is that it wasn't started 4-5 years ago, there's nothing we can do about that. Some people at the time said that Goldschmidt and/or Arenado should have been traded a few years ago, but I don't remember too many on here at the time agreeing with that. Most wanted to continue adding.

But yea, signing Lynn and Gibson was probably the right thing to do if they really wanted to compete that year, but it obviously would have been a lot better if we had pitchers like Fitts and Dobbins, like we just traded for, who could fill those innings while costing way less money, which would have allowed us to maybe pursue help elsewhere.

OldRed has been one of the most down and negative CTers this offseason.

TraveledLessRoad wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:25 pm I like Chaim...and I like what he's doing. Maybe he's canvassed the farm and sees that we're better on offense then we are on pitching. He's also acquiring assets. I'll let this all play out before passing judgment. So far, so fine

This.

Mozeliak’s last 10 years were mostly filled with stupid FA acquisitions, dumb extensions, and playoff misses or playoff failures when the team got in.

Less than 3 months into his stint as POBO people are griping about how terrible he is.

The fact is look at who the teams are that are winning the world series and who's on their teams. No team is winning without at least 3 certifiable big league hitters and about another 3 very good support role, hitting guys. Those 6 cost a ton of money to have if you are in their free agency years. You then need a legit 3 starting pitchers and another 3 lock down pitchers. Those too cost an extreme pile of money to have if in their free agency years. So at least half your roster has to be legit big league players and stars to compete with the Toronto's, and the LA's.

The only other way to get there is to home grow that talent so that it culminates at the same time to where you only have to plug in a few free agents and you're done. Much easier said than done. St. Louis is never going to be a $200 mill a season payroll team. That means you do not get to have $35 mill+ players in abundance. You get about at best 4 to 6, $20 mill players.

Bloom is 2 1/2 months into a rebuild and has already almost revamped the pitching staff for today and tomorrow. He has done it with heavy laden contracts and players on the down swing. No team was ever going to give up a top 5 talent for either of those players. I am pleased so far with new faces in the minors and the competition that will ensue.

StlMike1969 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 09:36 am The fact is look at who the teams are that are winning the world series and who's on their teams. No team is winning without at least 3 certifiable big league hitters and about another 3 very good support role, hitting guys. Those 6 cost a ton of money to have if you are in their free agency years. You then need a legit 3 starting pitchers and another 3 lock down pitchers. Those too cost an extreme pile of money to have if in their free agency years. So at least half your roster has to be legit big league players and stars to compete with the Toronto's, and the LA's.

The only other way to get there is to home grow that talent so that it culminates at the same time to where you only have to plug in a few free agents and you're done. Much easier said than done. St. Louis is never going to be a $200 mill a season payroll team. That means you do not get to have $35 mill+ players in abundance. You get about at best 4 to 6, $20 mill players.

Bloom is 2 1/2 months into a rebuild and has already almost revamped the pitching staff for today and tomorrow. He has done it with heavy laden contracts and players on the down swing. No team was ever going to give up a top 5 talent for either of those players. I am pleased so far with new faces in the minors and the competition that will ensue.

Who are these player who “revamped the pitching staff today and tomorrow”?

I absolutely love this approach!!!!! He is loading up on young power arms and we have the young bats in place. Pitching wins championships......hitting sells tickets.

I am totally good with everything he has done so far except for keeping Oli and Blake. The off season goes until ST you know. He is not done..... These people actually have a plan. Folks, next year is a write off. Sure, with luck they may somehow be a .500 team, but it is the season to see what JJW can do, and whether Walker and/or Gorman are salvageable, if one or both are still here in ST. Also, Winn will grow and his knee is fixed. There are guys like Baez who are a year or two away. I am not going to judge Bloom until the trading season is over and I see how the young players develop next season. Again, I think these guys actually know what they are doing, and how to develop young talent. We shall see....

casey1024 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 10:36 am I absolutely love this approach!!!!! He is loading up on young power arms and we have the young bats in place. Pitching wins championships......hitting sells tickets.

Who are these young bats we have in place?

StlMike1969 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 09:36 am The fact is look at who the teams are that are winning the world series and who's on their teams. No team is winning without at least 3 certifiable big league hitters and about another 3 very good support role, hitting guys. Those 6 cost a ton of money to have if you are in their free agency years. You then need a legit 3 starting pitchers and another 3 lock down pitchers. Those too cost an extreme pile of money to have if in their free agency years. So at least half your roster has to be legit big league players and stars to compete with the Toronto's, and the LA's.

The only other way to get there is to home grow that talent so that it culminates at the same time to where you only have to plug in a few free agents and you're done. Much easier said than done. St. Louis is never going to be a $200 mill a season payroll team. That means you do not get to have $35 mill+ players in abundance. You get about at best 4 to 6, $20 mill players.

Bloom is 2 1/2 months into a rebuild and has already almost revamped the pitching staff for today and tomorrow. He has done it with heavy laden contracts and players on the down swing. No team was ever going to give up a top 5 talent for either of those players. I am pleased so far with new faces in the minors and the competition that will ensue.

Will be interesting to see if they can turn around and get something for Donovan

hornetfb52 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:23 pm Not really sure what some were expecting for a declining 6 inning pitcher and an overpriced catcher that doesn’t catch.

People see that we didn't have to give up much to get Goldschmidt and Arenado and they have to realize that we weren't going to get two first round picks with each of them. Each has some value, but let's face it, most of their value was being out from under their contracts and he had to throw in money to move them. They didn't have much excess value.

Let's face it, the Cardinals don't expect to seriously compete/contend until 2028, with this next season being ground zero. This is the rebuild they've been putting off since the offseason of 2023. It makes sense to have assets that assets that could help the team at that point (with some nod towards putting together a team that hold down the fort until then). So, you'll have a a Fitts and Dobbins now to provide depth (and under control until 2031), you have raffle tickets that you hope will pay off. The raffle tickets, if they progress decently, could also be trade chips later. Arenado, if traded, will yield even less.

Let's face it, Brendan Donovan is that should move the needle a bit more.

---

We know short of throwing stupid money at FA and leveraging some of our better prospects, there was little chance to do anything this season, except maybe have a cup of coffee in the playoffs at best. I'd rather have a plan in place to seriously compete/contend than to do some half [ashed] or quarter [ashed] measure (in 2025 offseason), and 'hope for the best'. The real key for me is this: When the young talent does bubble up, are they willing to supplement it or will they Mo half-(donkey) it again?

Goldfan wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 10:45 am

casey1024 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 10:36 am I absolutely love this approach!!!!! He is loading up on young power arms and we have the young bats in place. Pitching wins championships......hitting sells tickets.

Who are these young bats we have in place?

I think that he means that will be one of the next steps...

vegascardsfan5890 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:18 pm I'm just not impressed so far. I guess we will see how these pitchers turn out. He seems to think we can develop pitchers.

As of now it looks like we will have 40 pitchers and 0 hitters on the team. Thats a bold strategy, Cotten

It's just getting harder and harder to root for this franchise. I need to start taking up Summer hobbies

Indeed. Once you realize their plan is just to cut to the bone and whether the probable strike. Then whenever they do decide to spend it'll be the "keep the powder dry" types of signings that me people puke. Bloom was brought here to do this.

Yes. We finally have a GM with balls willing to make decisions and moves based on the direction he thinks the team needs to head. This is what the organization needed, now time will tell if the correct moves have been made.

CCard wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 12:06 pm

vegascardsfan5890 wrote: ↑21 Dec 2025 19:18 pm I'm just not impressed so far. I guess we will see how these pitchers turn out. He seems to think we can develop pitchers.

As of now it looks like we will have 40 pitchers and 0 hitters on the team. Thats a bold strategy, Cotten

It's just getting harder and harder to root for this franchise. I need to start taking up Summer hobbies

Indeed. Once you realize their plan is just to cut to the bone and whether the probable strike. Then whenever they do decide to spend it'll be the "keep the powder dry" types of signings that me people puke. Bloom was brought here to do this.

That’s your misguided prediction, I don’t agree. Bloom has shown in previous organizations that he is willing to spend. It’s up to the owner to decide how much.

Horseradish wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 12:16 pm Yes. We finally have a GM with balls willing to make decisions and moves based on the direction he thinks the team needs to head. This is what the organization needed, now time will tell if the correct moves have been made.

+1