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Goldfan wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 13:07 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 13:01 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 12:54 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 11:46 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 11:43 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 11:40 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 11:34 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 11:32 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 11:18 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 11:03 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 10:44 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 10:23 am

So May and Fitts are part of this rebuild? Losing records and 5.00ERA…..OK
Who is this #4 on your list?

May is part of the rebuild in the sense that he’s potentially flippable.

Fitts is still young. Also, Shane Baz had a 4.87 era but was just traded for four prospects. Sometimes one seasons era doesn’t tell the whole story.

Keep learning, bud.

Ecleme.....I have to commend you. You have taken the baton TODAY from myself and NUMEROUS other posters.
I wish you luck and applaud you in your efforts!
Hopefully someone else takes the GF Baton from you tomorrow??

Thanks brother.

I’m really surprised by the lack of understanding from some CTers.

I really like what Bloom appears to be doing, but it’s also something we’ve seen before in various ways from various organizations.

The whole “I don’t know what bloom is doing or what I’m seeing” faction on CardsTalk is odd.

Agree
Part of it is a “lack of understanding”(aka basic intelligence) but it also involves major weak mindedness on their part.
Most here realize that passionately following sports can lead to frustration.
Most here vent(as I do) but there is a difference between healthy venting and being a whining entitled crybaby.
My advice would be....if you don’t have the stomach for sports....take up stamp collecting, knitting, or some other hobby that you can have control over!

Yea he complained about Mo for years then mo left he gave bloom less than a month before he turned on him and started crying and whining about him lol

Hey Oz....I took the GF Baton yesterday from you and a few others.
Looks like ecleme and others have had it passed to them today?
You have to admit...he is consistent!
Thank God we only have to deal with him on an anonymous forum and not in real life
Yikes!

Thank GOD!!!
It would be hard dealing with someone in real life who was right about the past 7 years and you were wrong and called him a dummy
And he gives an alternate view of how things could happen and you still call him a dummy
That would kind of make YOU the dummy…….No?

Considering you are incapable of grasp the simple concepts of how a rebuild works I would say you are a dummy

Sure….teams with ownership who don’t want to spend money have glorious “rebuilds”. Pitts, Cincy, Marlins, TB
And this process of “Rebuild” are all rubber stamped guarantees….just follow the process YOU, EC, Cuse have the blueprint for and its WS in 5-6yrs
Every MLB team should do this

They will spend money again but again you don’t understand the simple concepts of a rebuild. When you rebuild you don’t spend a lot of money you accumulate a lot of talent develop your core then spend money and make trades for the pieces that you need. And the pirates reds and marlins aren’t good examples of that because they don’t have the money to sign their best players or spend to bring good players in the cardinals do.

I see….you know BDW will spend money again….
You think top prospects are being brought in that will soon eclipse the talent that has been here
Does anyone know what happened to all those prospects brought by from Flaherty, Monty, Hicks, etc…….
I thought they would be breaking through by now??
Again, I don’t think trading the fellas who are being dangled……are going to bring back what you hope to get. If you’re overjoyed with Filler then great. Top talent is hard to develop and teams aren’t giving it up for Gray, WC, Donny so get back equal to lesser talent which is younger and cheaper

Well the Dewitt’s have a history of spending money so there’s no reason for me to believe they won’t do it once the rebuild is nearing its completion but I guess you know they won’t spend money again and you’re all over the map with your whining the other day you were whining because they hadn’t traded Donovan yet now you are whining that they are going to trade him and won’t get any prospects for him you whine saying they aren’t going to spend money then whine because the overpaid and spent 12 million on may at least be consistent with your whining.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 09:59 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 07:54 am



Gray was owed 35mil in ‘26 with club option for 30mil and 5mil buyout in ‘27. So that’s 40mil 40-20=20mil saved
So you want to throw in May at 12…..thats 8mil. Donny is 6mi…..14mil saved
14 mil here and there….you’re dumping salary

1) Has Donovan been traded yet??
2) And if he is traded you ALREADY KNOW that the players they receive will make far less than $6M???
3) Are you saying they should have held onto Gray for this season and next at a cost of $65M at his age????

Just when I thought you couldn’t whine any more and get any dumber!!!!

So Donny won’t be traded now??
What I’m saying is that the Cards payroll has been going down and will continue to go down as these vet contracts fall off.
But this isn’t a salary dump to genius’s like you…..you see the math…..what do you want to call it???
Donny isn’t going to return the next Skenes, he’s returning a younger Donny who makes no money.
So what does that do for the future talent base…..its not improved…..BDW will have his low payroll….and the future team will not be improved.
I challenged EC…..what has the team returned so far that jump starts this “rebuild”? Perhaps this lefty from Boston has a future…..is it a lock??
[/quote]

I’ll type really slow for you fellas….
When Gray was signed I said it was stupid to spend that much money on a 5’10 180 mid 30s fella who had an odd tract record of leaving games early. Turns out the man has an issue with grip in the summer heat.
When they signed WC I said it was stupid because they had Defensive catchers and they needed to spend $$ on OF and pitching. Well WC didn’t really work out at catcher did he?? If you want to go with the story he’s a great offensive weapon have at it….
If you think replacing May(7-11, 5ERA, 1.421Whip) and Fitts(2-4, 5ERA, 1.311Whip) 13mil TOTAL is “rebuilding” good for you
But to the Keen eye BDW dumped 25mil off his starting rotation…..if you want to include Fedde and Matz that’s another 20mil
But But But that minor league LH SP from Boston……..MIGHT be something in the future….
[/quote]

Sonny Gray gets you:
1) Red Sox #5 prospect, who throws 99mph.
2) Fitts, who was just recently the Sox #11 prospect
3) Dustin May (FA pitcher, hopefully rebounds), if he rebounds, he’s traded at the deadline for prospects.
4) FA pitcher (1 year 8-12mil), if he does well, traded at the deadline.


So Gray trade/contract scored at least 2 good prospects, at possibly as much as 4 or 5.

That’s rebuilding.

Welcome to the conversation…
[/quote]

Not that it matters much but what IF May is more of a wild Card than what SG represents?
He's more as a Matz/Fedde/Mikolas replacement. Most views don't have May here for long.
The next SP gathered might represent less volatility like SG better than May does.

Bottom line is if the prospect return isn’t a player who is MORE productive than the current roster then this is an exercise in futility…..a salary dump….and BDW prolonging the time to when he needs to ramp payroll back up. Think about it if he’s saving 70-80mil per year for 3-4 years thats real money. Call it what you wish……a Rebuild….a Reset….Transition. The difference will be in drafting and player development…..not the return for Gray, WC, Donny, Noot.
And Drafting/Player Dev can run the same time as the MLB is WINNING…..just need to spend $$$

Goldfan wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 14:23 pm Bottom line is if the prospect return isn’t a player who is MORE productive than the current roster then this is an exercise in futility…..a salary dump….and BDW prolonging the time to when he needs to ramp payroll back up. Think about it if he’s saving 70-80mil per year for 3-4 years thats real money. Call it what you wish……a Rebuild….a Reset….Transition. The difference will be in drafting and player development…..not the return for Gray, WC, Donny, Noot.
And Drafting/Player Dev can run the same time as the MLB is WINNING…..just need to spend $$$

So you think they should keep Contreras gray and noot who you have loved trash now? lol and again you don’t understand what a salary dump is so your comprehension problems continue to interfere with your ability to grasp the concepts of a rebuild. And again you whined that the cardinals are “dumping” salary and not spending money then whine that they overpaid and spent 12 million on may

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 14:29 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 14:23 pm Bottom line is if the prospect return isn’t a player who is MORE productive than the current roster then this is an exercise in futility…..a salary dump….and BDW prolonging the time to when he needs to ramp payroll back up. Think about it if he’s saving 70-80mil per year for 3-4 years thats real money. Call it what you wish……a Rebuild….a Reset….Transition. The difference will be in drafting and player development…..not the return for Gray, WC, Donny, Noot.
And Drafting/Player Dev can run the same time as the MLB is WINNING…..just need to spend $$$

So you think they should keep Contreras gray and noot who you have loved trash now? lol and again you don’t understand what a salary dump is so your comprehension problems continue to interfere with your ability to grasp the concepts of a rebuild. And again you whined that the cardinals are “dumping” salary and not spending money then whine that they overpaid and spent 12 million on may

I just want to be sure we’re on the same page

A 80mil progressive salary drop is NOT a Salary Dump
Signing a soon to be 29yr old 12mil losing record 5.00ERA SP is REBUILDING
Offloading WC(18ml), Gray(20mil), Miles(18), Matz(12), Fedde(8), Donny(6) and receiving marginal prospects back that Will be a long shot to make the Cardinals BETTER than they currently are…….IS NOT DUMPING SALARY IT’S……REBUILIDING.

Goldfan wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 19:19 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 14:29 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 14:23 pm Bottom line is if the prospect return isn’t a player who is MORE productive than the current roster then this is an exercise in futility…..a salary dump….and BDW prolonging the time to when he needs to ramp payroll back up. Think about it if he’s saving 70-80mil per year for 3-4 years thats real money. Call it what you wish……a Rebuild….a Reset….Transition. The difference will be in drafting and player development…..not the return for Gray, WC, Donny, Noot.
And Drafting/Player Dev can run the same time as the MLB is WINNING…..just need to spend $$$

So you think they should keep Contreras gray and noot who you have loved trash now? lol and again you don’t understand what a salary dump is so your comprehension problems continue to interfere with your ability to grasp the concepts of a rebuild. And again you whined that the cardinals are “dumping” salary and not spending money then whine that they overpaid and spent 12 million on may

I just want to be sure we’re on the same page

A 80mil progressive salary drop is NOT a Salary Dump
Signing a soon to be 29yr old 12mil losing record 5.00ERA SP is REBUILDING
Offloading WC(18ml), Gray(20mil), Miles(18), Matz(12), Fedde(8), Donny(6) and receiving marginal prospects back that Will be a long shot to make the Cardinals BETTER than they currently are…….IS NOT DUMPING SALARY IT’S……REBUILIDING.

Yes you finally get it now congratulations you’re learning. Gray brought back two prospects one who can help this season and one who has high upside if they wanted to just dump salary they would have eaten less of it and taken lesser prospects hence not a salary dump. If they were just looking to go cheap they would never have signed may for 12 million they would have just let a rookie take those starts instead they made a move a lot of smart rebuilding teams make sign a guy with high upside and then if they do we’ll flip them for prospects. Fedde and miles were trash of course you dump them matz of course you trade him the wasted the money on his contract it would have been stupid to keep him when you can trade him and more stupid to sign him. Donny of course you trade him at peak value stupid not to trade him. Wilson Contreras why would you keep him? And i still find it hilarious you constantly whined and cried about gray saying he wasn’t an ace it was stupid to sign him then you immediately started crying once they traded him because it was just a salary dump and you hated Contreras whined and cried constantly about him started whole threads to slam him now they talk about trading him and you immediately started crying about it. Just be honest you are going to whine and cry no matter what happens

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 19:58 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 19:19 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 14:29 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑20 Dec 2025 14:23 pm Bottom line is if the prospect return isn’t a player who is MORE productive than the current roster then this is an exercise in futility…..a salary dump….and BDW prolonging the time to when he needs to ramp payroll back up. Think about it if he’s saving 70-80mil per year for 3-4 years thats real money. Call it what you wish……a Rebuild….a Reset….Transition. The difference will be in drafting and player development…..not the return for Gray, WC, Donny, Noot.
And Drafting/Player Dev can run the same time as the MLB is WINNING…..just need to spend $$$

So you think they should keep Contreras gray and noot who you have loved trash now? lol and again you don’t understand what a salary dump is so your comprehension problems continue to interfere with your ability to grasp the concepts of a rebuild. And again you whined that the cardinals are “dumping” salary and not spending money then whine that they overpaid and spent 12 million on may

I just want to be sure we’re on the same page

A 80mil progressive salary drop is NOT a Salary Dump
Signing a soon to be 29yr old 12mil losing record 5.00ERA SP is REBUILDING
Offloading WC(18ml), Gray(20mil), Miles(18), Matz(12), Fedde(8), Donny(6) and receiving marginal prospects back that Will be a long shot to make the Cardinals BETTER than they currently are…….IS NOT DUMPING SALARY IT’S……REBUILIDING.

Yes you finally get it now congratulations you’re learning. Gray brought back two prospects one who can help this season and one who has high upside if they wanted to just dump salary they would have eaten less of it and taken lesser prospects hence not a salary dump. If they were just looking to go cheap they would never have signed may for 12 million they would have just let a rookie take those starts instead they made a move a lot of smart rebuilding teams make sign a guy with high upside and then if they do we’ll flip them for prospects. Fedde and miles were trash of course you dump them matz of course you trade him the wasted the money on his contract it would have been stupid to keep him when you can trade him and more stupid to sign him. Donny of course you trade him at peak value stupid not to trade him. Wilson Contreras why would you keep him? And i still find it hilarious you constantly whined and cried about gray saying he wasn’t an ace it was stupid to sign him then you immediately started crying once they traded him because it was just a salary dump and you hated Contreras whined and cried constantly about him started whole threads to slam him now they talk about trading him and you immediately started crying about it. Just be honest you are going to whine and cry no matter what happens

Nailed it Oz!!!!