Is there a downside of Bloom going public with his desire to trade certain players?

[Ozziesfan41]

I don't disagree that the team needs players like Burleson, especially if they can trade Willie (and Arenado). Moving Willie opens a spot for Burleson or possibly Gorman/Ivan. One thing bothers me, if they trade Donovan and Willie, who is the team leader? Who leads by example or words? I just don't see one after those two.

You don’t think 27 year old veteran of four MLB seasons, Alec Burleson, can take over the leadership void resulting from trading 28 year old veteran of 4 seasons, Brendan Donovan?

Not horse ronnie but I'll chime in, no.

Donovan comes from a military family, he brings leadership skills that the affable, happy go lucky joker Burly doesn't.

Burleson and Noot are more the "good guys" on the team who keep everyone loose w/their sense of humor and fun loving good nature.

WillyC & Donny bring discipline, work ethic and leadership, likely not afraid to call out a teammate behind closed doors.

If WillyC is deal as well as Donny, then I'd think M. Winn........smart, hard nosed and respected is your natural new team leader even at his young age.

JMO

I still think Donovan should be traded but I get your point the other day I saw a video where Lynn was talking about when he first came to camp Brad penny told him to run with him because apparently penny was lazy and didn’t work hard and wanted someone else to be with him so he didn’t stand out and they slowly did their running together and Lynn said he didn’t mind he didn’t like running anyway. Afterward Larussa called him over and asked him what happened why he was so far behind lynn didn’t want to rat out penny so he just said I did what I was told. Larussa said okay. The next day Lynn was again going to run with penny but Larussa told him no to go run in wainos and carpenters group instead and he said waino and carpenter ran him to death because worked hard in their training. So yea I get the leadership aspect

[imyourhuckleberry]

I don't disagree that the team needs players like Burleson, especially if they can trade Willie (and Arenado). Moving Willie opens a spot for Burleson or possibly Gorman/Ivan. One thing bothers me, if they trade Donovan and Willie, who is the team leader? Who leads by example or words? I just don't see one after those two.

You don’t think 27 year old veteran of four MLB seasons, Alec Burleson, can take over the leadership void resulting from trading 28 year old veteran of 4 seasons, Brendan Donovan?

Not horse ronnie but I'll chime in, no.

Donovan comes from a military family, he brings leadership skills that the affable, happy go lucky joker Burly doesn't.

Burleson and Noot are more the "good guys" on the team who keep everyone loose w/their sense of humor and fun loving good nature.

WillyC & Donny bring discipline, work ethic and leadership, likely not afraid to call out a teammate behind closed doors.

If WillyC is deal as well as Donny, then I'd think M. Winn........smart, hard nosed and respected is your natural new team leader even at his young age.

JMO

Both types can be leaders, and I'd argue a locker room needs a good balance of both.

The discipline\work ethic leaders need the fun loving\good natured leaders, otherwise the locker room is likely to get overly tense.

The good natured\fun loving leaders need the discipline\work ethic guys to keep things from getting out of control.

Different types of people respond to different types of leadership and good leaders (of either type) know when to lead and when to allow someone else to take the lead.

[rockondlouie]

I don't disagree that the team needs players like Burleson, especially if they can trade Willie (and Arenado). Moving Willie opens a spot for Burleson or possibly Gorman/Ivan. One thing bothers me, if they trade Donovan and Willie, who is the team leader? Who leads by example or words? I just don't see one after those two.

You don’t think 27 year old veteran of four MLB seasons, Alec Burleson, can take over the leadership void resulting from trading 28 year old veteran of 4 seasons, Brendan Donovan?

Not horse ronnie but I'll chime in, no.

Donovan comes from a military family, he brings leadership skills that the affable, happy go lucky joker Burly doesn't.

Burleson and Noot are more the "good guys" on the team who keep everyone loose w/their sense of humor and fun loving good nature.

WillyC & Donny bring discipline, work ethic and leadership, likely not afraid to call out a teammate behind closed doors.

If WillyC is deal as well as Donny, then I'd think M. Winn........smart, hard nosed and respected is your natural new team leader even at his young age.

JMO

I still think Donovan should be traded but I get your point the other day I saw a video where Lynn was talking about when he first came to camp Brad penny told him to run with him because apparently penny was lazy and didn’t work hard and wanted someone else to be with him so he didn’t stand out and they slowly did their running together and Lynn said he didn’t mind he didn’t like running anyway. Afterward Larussa called him over and asked him what happened why he was so far behind lynn didn’t want to rat out penny so he just said I did what I was told. Larussa said okay. The next day Lynn was again going to run with penny but Larussa told him no to go run in wainos and carpenters group instead and he said waino and carpenter ran him to death because worked hard in their training. So yea I get the leadership aspect

Great story ozzie

From what I know of Penny he was more about chasing the ladies and less about playing baseball, just blessed to make a ton of money through his natural gift of throwing the ball.

[rockondlouie]

I don't disagree that the team needs players like Burleson, especially if they can trade Willie (and Arenado). Moving Willie opens a spot for Burleson or possibly Gorman/Ivan. One thing bothers me, if they trade Donovan and Willie, who is the team leader? Who leads by example or words? I just don't see one after those two.

You don’t think 27 year old veteran of four MLB seasons, Alec Burleson, can take over the leadership void resulting from trading 28 year old veteran of 4 seasons, Brendan Donovan?

Not horse ronnie but I'll chime in, no.

Donovan comes from a military family, he brings leadership skills that the affable, happy go lucky joker Burly doesn't.

Burleson and Noot are more the "good guys" on the team who keep everyone loose w/their sense of humor and fun loving good nature.

WillyC & Donny bring discipline, work ethic and leadership, likely not afraid to call out a teammate behind closed doors.

If WillyC is deal as well as Donny, then I'd think M. Winn........smart, hard nosed and respected is your natural new team leader even at his young age.

JMO

Both types can be leaders, and I'd argue a locker room needs a good balance of both.

The discipline\work ethic leaders need the fun loving\good natured leaders, otherwise the locker room is likely to get overly tense.

The good natured\fun loving leaders need the discipline\work ethic guys to keep things from getting out of control.

Different types of people respond to different types of leadership and good leaders (of either type) know when to lead and when to allow someone else to take the lead.

For sure both types of personalities are needed.

But you want General Patton leading you when it times to go to war, not Gomer Pyle.

[imyourhuckleberry]

I don't disagree that the team needs players like Burleson, especially if they can trade Willie (and Arenado). Moving Willie opens a spot for Burleson or possibly Gorman/Ivan. One thing bothers me, if they trade Donovan and Willie, who is the team leader? Who leads by example or words? I just don't see one after those two.

You don’t think 27 year old veteran of four MLB seasons, Alec Burleson, can take over the leadership void resulting from trading 28 year old veteran of 4 seasons, Brendan Donovan?

Not horse ronnie but I'll chime in, no.

Donovan comes from a military family, he brings leadership skills that the affable, happy go lucky joker Burly doesn't.

Burleson and Noot are more the "good guys" on the team who keep everyone loose w/their sense of humor and fun loving good nature.

WillyC & Donny bring discipline, work ethic and leadership, likely not afraid to call out a teammate behind closed doors.

If WillyC is deal as well as Donny, then I'd think M. Winn........smart, hard nosed and respected is your natural new team leader even at his young age.

JMO

Both types can be leaders, and I'd argue a locker room needs a good balance of both.

The discipline\work ethic leaders need the fun loving\good natured leaders, otherwise the locker room is likely to get overly tense.

The good natured\fun loving leaders need the discipline\work ethic guys to keep things from getting out of control.

Different types of people respond to different types of leadership and good leaders (of either type) know when to lead and when to allow someone else to take the lead.

For sure both types of personalities are needed.

But you want General Patton leading you when it times to go to war, not Gomer Pyle.

Except this isn't war, its a game. If you want guys out there playing loose and having fun (how often do we hear that from winning teams), you don't want an unchecked 'General Patton'-type tsk-tsking everyone because they're not living up to his standard of professionalism.

[renostl]

The main downsides of an MLB team publicly shopping a player are that it can severely damage the player's morale and performance, and it can decrease the player's trade value. This public "shopping" signals a lack of interest to the player and the rest of the league, which can lead to the player becoming disgruntled and may make other teams less willing to offer a high price in a trade.

I don't remember Herzog publicly announcing he was going to trade Templeton or Hernandez for example.

i think you are reading too much into this. the players already know this, only thing different is gm being honest to media.

wouldnt arenado and contreras already know management wants to move them ecerytime they are asked if they wpuld waive their no trade clauses regardless if bloom says anything to media

Maybe but if I'm a team knowing Bloom has gone public that he wants to get rid of Donovan and Arenado I'm thinking about the Price/Betts trade and trying to fleece Bloom by taking on Arenado's contract if I also get Donovan in exchange for some mediocre prospects. That's the potential downside.

It would be an error imo to subtract value from Donovan.
The Cards aren't over budget and very soon could have an incredibly payroll.

I agree but I don't envision a big market for Arenado. .237 with 12 home runs. What team is he going to help? If I was a GM I'd want to bundle Arenado with Donovan. That might help a contending team with deep pocket owner willing to take Arenado's contract.

That would be a bad idea. If you trade donovan you trade him for the highest return possible. You dont decrease what you get back by using donovan just to dump arenado. I would rather them trade donvovan by himself for max return and keep Areando the only one arenado is blocking is gorman and he sucks

I agree but I suspect some teams will try that after what Bloom did with Betts and Price. You want me to take Arenado? Give me Donovan.

But Red Sox ownership wanted him to dump price and betts and he had to put them together to dump price. I don’t think Dewitt would do that

I'm familiar with that history. If I'm a GM I don't think I'd want Arenado without a sweetener.

Everyone that takes NA will have a couple things in
common. One they want Arenado o/w they aren't asking
about him. Two, they will get a sweetener, it just won't be BD.
Most likely money, maybe a different player but not BD.

If such team demands BD then erase NA from the deal and let those
negotiations begin.

it's obvious the worst contract is Arenado and the Cardinals are not negotiating from a position of strength. The Dodgers didn't want Price. They wanted Betts who was known to be available.

I doubt there are a lot of teams who want Arenado at 3B given his 2025 performance unless we pay all but a very small part of his contract. Boston got a couple high prospects in return by adding Betts. One of the prospects was a flop but that happens.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I agree.
The my guess is that a team that wants him wants his glove, wants a veteran,
has plenty of offense elsewhere and has a little bit of hope that their is a bounce
in his offense. Not prime NA but closer to league average over his
87 OPS+ out of Busch and the Cardinals situation the last couple seasons.
What's that worth in 2026? We'll find out, I think it half and the Cardinals
won't attempt to make a silk purse out of this trade like SG, they'll take the
lottery ticket or possibly a teams smallish contract back.

The biggest issue is how long does NA wait for what he sees as the prettier teams.

[rockondlouie]

I don't disagree that the team needs players like Burleson, especially if they can trade Willie (and Arenado). Moving Willie opens a spot for Burleson or possibly Gorman/Ivan. One thing bothers me, if they trade Donovan and Willie, who is the team leader? Who leads by example or words? I just don't see one after those two.

You don’t think 27 year old veteran of four MLB seasons, Alec Burleson, can take over the leadership void resulting from trading 28 year old veteran of 4 seasons, Brendan Donovan?

Not horse ronnie but I'll chime in, no.

Donovan comes from a military family, he brings leadership skills that the affable, happy go lucky joker Burly doesn't.

Burleson and Noot are more the "good guys" on the team who keep everyone loose w/their sense of humor and fun loving good nature.

WillyC & Donny bring discipline, work ethic and leadership, likely not afraid to call out a teammate behind closed doors.

If WillyC is deal as well as Donny, then I'd think M. Winn........smart, hard nosed and respected is your natural new team leader even at his young age.

JMO

Both types can be leaders, and I'd argue a locker room needs a good balance of both.

The discipline\work ethic leaders need the fun loving\good natured leaders, otherwise the locker room is likely to get overly tense.

The good natured\fun loving leaders need the discipline\work ethic guys to keep things from getting out of control.

Different types of people respond to different types of leadership and good leaders (of either type) know when to lead and when to allow someone else to take the lead.

For sure both types of personalities are needed.

But you want General Patton leading you when it times to go to war, not Gomer Pyle.

Except this isn't war, its a game. If you want guys out there playing loose and having fun (how often do we hear that from winning teams), you don't want an unchecked 'General Patton'-type tsk-tsking everyone because they're not living up to his standard of professionalism.

Just an analogy.

I'll take Albert/Yadi type of leaders on my team, you can have Noot/Burleson types.

[imyourhuckleberry]

I don't disagree that the team needs players like Burleson, especially if they can trade Willie (and Arenado). Moving Willie opens a spot for Burleson or possibly Gorman/Ivan. One thing bothers me, if they trade Donovan and Willie, who is the team leader? Who leads by example or words? I just don't see one after those two.

You don’t think 27 year old veteran of four MLB seasons, Alec Burleson, can take over the leadership void resulting from trading 28 year old veteran of 4 seasons, Brendan Donovan?

Not horse ronnie but I'll chime in, no.

Donovan comes from a military family, he brings leadership skills that the affable, happy go lucky joker Burly doesn't.

Burleson and Noot are more the "good guys" on the team who keep everyone loose w/their sense of humor and fun loving good nature.

WillyC & Donny bring discipline, work ethic and leadership, likely not afraid to call out a teammate behind closed doors.

If WillyC is deal as well as Donny, then I'd think M. Winn........smart, hard nosed and respected is your natural new team leader even at his young age.

JMO

Both types can be leaders, and I'd argue a locker room needs a good balance of both.

The discipline\work ethic leaders need the fun loving\good natured leaders, otherwise the locker room is likely to get overly tense.

The good natured\fun loving leaders need the discipline\work ethic guys to keep things from getting out of control.

Different types of people respond to different types of leadership and good leaders (of either type) know when to lead and when to allow someone else to take the lead.

For sure both types of personalities are needed.

But you want General Patton leading you when it times to go to war, not Gomer Pyle.

Except this isn't war, its a game. If you want guys out there playing loose and having fun (how often do we hear that from winning teams), you don't want an unchecked 'General Patton'-type tsk-tsking everyone because they're not living up to his standard of professionalism.

Just an analogy.

I'll take Albert/Yadi type of leaders on my team, you can have Noot/Burleson types.

I'll take both.

[rockondlouie]

I don't disagree that the team needs players like Burleson, especially if they can trade Willie (and Arenado). Moving Willie opens a spot for Burleson or possibly Gorman/Ivan. One thing bothers me, if they trade Donovan and Willie, who is the team leader? Who leads by example or words? I just don't see one after those two.

You don’t think 27 year old veteran of four MLB seasons, Alec Burleson, can take over the leadership void resulting from trading 28 year old veteran of 4 seasons, Brendan Donovan?

Not horse ronnie but I'll chime in, no.

Donovan comes from a military family, he brings leadership skills that the affable, happy go lucky joker Burly doesn't.

Burleson and Noot are more the "good guys" on the team who keep everyone loose w/their sense of humor and fun loving good nature.

WillyC & Donny bring discipline, work ethic and leadership, likely not afraid to call out a teammate behind closed doors.

If WillyC is deal as well as Donny, then I'd think M. Winn........smart, hard nosed and respected is your natural new team leader even at his young age.

JMO

Both types can be leaders, and I'd argue a locker room needs a good balance of both.

The discipline\work ethic leaders need the fun loving\good natured leaders, otherwise the locker room is likely to get overly tense.

The good natured\fun loving leaders need the discipline\work ethic guys to keep things from getting out of control.

Different types of people respond to different types of leadership and good leaders (of either type) know when to lead and when to allow someone else to take the lead.

For sure both types of personalities are needed.

But you want General Patton leading you when it times to go to war, not Gomer Pyle.

Except this isn't war, its a game. If you want guys out there playing loose and having fun (how often do we hear that from winning teams), you don't want an unchecked 'General Patton'-type tsk-tsking everyone because they're not living up to his standard of professionalism.

Just an analogy.

I'll take Albert/Yadi type of leaders on my team, you can have Noot/Burleson types.

I'll take both.

[HorseTrader]

I don't disagree that the team needs players like Burleson, especially if they can trade Willie (and Arenado). Moving Willie opens a spot for Burleson or possibly Gorman/Ivan. One thing bothers me, if they trade Donovan and Willie, who is the team leader? Who leads by example or words? I just don't see one after those two.

You don’t think 27 year old veteran of four MLB seasons, Alec Burleson, can take over the leadership void resulting from trading 28 year old veteran of 4 seasons, Brendan Donovan?

Well you would hope and maybe it will happen.

[ecleme22]

I agree but I suspect some teams will try that after what Bloom did with Betts and Price. You want me to take Arenado? Give me Donovan.

But Red Sox ownership wanted him to dump price and betts and he had to put them together to dump price. I don’t think Dewitt would do that

I'm familiar with that history. If I'm a GM I don't think I'd want Arenado without a sweetener.

Everyone that takes NA will have a couple things in
common. One they want Arenado o/w they aren't asking
about him. Two, they will get a sweetener, it just won't be BD.
Most likely money, maybe a different player but not BD.

If such team demands BD then erase NA from the deal and let those
negotiations begin.

it's obvious the worst contract is Arenado and the Cardinals are not negotiating from a position of strength. The Dodgers didn't want Price. They wanted Betts who was known to be available.

I doubt there are a lot of teams who want Arenado at 3B given his 2025 performance unless we pay all but a very small part of his contract. Boston got a couple high prospects in return by adding Betts. One of the prospects was a flop but that happens.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

His glove is valuable. Whether as a starter or late innings guy. He has potential to be a league average singles hitter and doubles if he had any speed.

His high pop out rate especially to the right side, indicates maybe attempting to go the opposite way. If he puts more of those pop outs in play, maybe a better hitter.

At his age the decline in 2025 is what teams will be concerned about. Cardinals are negotiating from a position of strength. I suspect we either pay 75% of his contract and get not much in return or we sweeten the deal and Donovan would be the sweetener teams would ask for.

If the cards were consumed with saving money, they would’ve traded Gray for a bucket of balls and saved a lot of money.

So no, they will not trade BD w NA, unless somehow it’s a 3 team trade where the cards get a boatload of prospects.

I still think they do something like trade NA for Castellanos.

If you were running the Phillies you would trade Castellanos for Arenado?

NC is underwater as it stands. And he doesn't play good D and doesn't get along w the manager. They are trying to move him.

If Bloom can pull that off then good for him. Castellanos is declining but appears to have a little more left than Arenado.

And even if he just hits 20 hr drives in 70 and scores 70 in the cardinals outfield the last few season that would look like all star numbers lol

I actually really like the idea.
1. If the cards trade Noot, they will need an OFer.
2. We are exchanging a bad two year contract (NA) for a bad one year.
3. NC is a bounceback candidate who can be flipped if he bounces back. For prospects…

[renostl]

But Red Sox ownership wanted him to dump price and betts and he had to put them together to dump price. I don’t think Dewitt would do that

I'm familiar with that history. If I'm a GM I don't think I'd want Arenado without a sweetener.

Everyone that takes NA will have a couple things in
common. One they want Arenado o/w they aren't asking
about him. Two, they will get a sweetener, it just won't be BD.
Most likely money, maybe a different player but not BD.

If such team demands BD then erase NA from the deal and let those
negotiations begin.

it's obvious the worst contract is Arenado and the Cardinals are not negotiating from a position of strength. The Dodgers didn't want Price. They wanted Betts who was known to be available.

I doubt there are a lot of teams who want Arenado at 3B given his 2025 performance unless we pay all but a very small part of his contract. Boston got a couple high prospects in return by adding Betts. One of the prospects was a flop but that happens.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

His glove is valuable. Whether as a starter or late innings guy. He has potential to be a league average singles hitter and doubles if he had any speed.

His high pop out rate especially to the right side, indicates maybe attempting to go the opposite way. If he puts more of those pop outs in play, maybe a better hitter.

At his age the decline in 2025 is what teams will be concerned about. Cardinals are negotiating from a position of strength. I suspect we either pay 75% of his contract and get not much in return or we sweeten the deal and Donovan would be the sweetener teams would ask for.

If the cards were consumed with saving money, they would’ve traded Gray for a bucket of balls and saved a lot of money.

So no, they will not trade BD w NA, unless somehow it’s a 3 team trade where the cards get a boatload of prospects.

I still think they do something like trade NA for Castellanos.

If you were running the Phillies you would trade Castellanos for Arenado?

NC is underwater as it stands. And he doesn't play good D and doesn't get along w the manager. They are trying to move him.

If Bloom can pull that off then good for him. Castellanos is declining but appears to have a little more left than Arenado.

And even if he just hits 20 hr drives in 70 and scores 70 in the cardinals outfield the last few season that would look like all star numbers lol

I actually really like the idea.
1. If the cards trade Noot, they will need an OFer.
2. We are exchanging a bad two year contract (NA) for a bad one year.
3. NC is a bounceback candidate who can be flipped if he bounces back. For prospects…

Yes you do like this idea and there several perks.

One that I haven't read but may have been mentioned is that NA would way Yes possibly sooner. There's concerns on my part that Bregman along with a couple others slow play the market leaving NA waiting on a more desired location. This might bypass that and leave more money for Philly to go play with Schwarber or Tucker.

[Ozziesfan41]

But Red Sox ownership wanted him to dump price and betts and he had to put them together to dump price. I don’t think Dewitt would do that

I'm familiar with that history. If I'm a GM I don't think I'd want Arenado without a sweetener.

Everyone that takes NA will have a couple things in
common. One they want Arenado o/w they aren't asking
about him. Two, they will get a sweetener, it just won't be BD.
Most likely money, maybe a different player but not BD.

If such team demands BD then erase NA from the deal and let those
negotiations begin.

it's obvious the worst contract is Arenado and the Cardinals are not negotiating from a position of strength. The Dodgers didn't want Price. They wanted Betts who was known to be available.

I doubt there are a lot of teams who want Arenado at 3B given his 2025 performance unless we pay all but a very small part of his contract. Boston got a couple high prospects in return by adding Betts. One of the prospects was a flop but that happens.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

His glove is valuable. Whether as a starter or late innings guy. He has potential to be a league average singles hitter and doubles if he had any speed.

His high pop out rate especially to the right side, indicates maybe attempting to go the opposite way. If he puts more of those pop outs in play, maybe a better hitter.

At his age the decline in 2025 is what teams will be concerned about. Cardinals are negotiating from a position of strength. I suspect we either pay 75% of his contract and get not much in return or we sweeten the deal and Donovan would be the sweetener teams would ask for.

If the cards were consumed with saving money, they would’ve traded Gray for a bucket of balls and saved a lot of money.

So no, they will not trade BD w NA, unless somehow it’s a 3 team trade where the cards get a boatload of prospects.

I still think they do something like trade NA for Castellanos.

If you were running the Phillies you would trade Castellanos for Arenado?

NC is underwater as it stands. And he doesn't play good D and doesn't get along w the manager. They are trying to move him.

If Bloom can pull that off then good for him. Castellanos is declining but appears to have a little more left than Arenado.

And even if he just hits 20 hr drives in 70 and scores 70 in the cardinals outfield the last few season that would look like all star numbers lol

I actually really like the idea.
1. If the cards trade Noot, they will need an OFer.
2. We are exchanging a bad two year contract (NA) for a bad one year.
3. NC is a bounceback candidate who can be flipped if he bounces back. For prospects…

Oh I like it also