Page 6 of 8
Re: Baseball is dead to me
Posted: 04 Nov 2025 08:13 am
by Cranny
Adam2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:05 am
Cranny wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 18:21 pm
OldRed wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 17:49 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 17:41 pm
OldRed wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 12:48 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 12:45 pm
TheJackBurton wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 20:24 pm
OldRed wrote: ↑02 Nov 2025 07:34 am
MLB has had three straight years of attendance increase.
No they haven't. Those are incredibly falsified numbers.
On most nights the vast majority of stadiums are half empty
It's the
difference between tickets sold and turnstile count.
It counts as attendance and thus it counts as revenue.
Fannys in the seats is the only measure of fan interest. Lots of tickets are purchased by corporations who use them as marketing tools with their customers. But the customers really don’t care to attend. Ergo all the empty seats.
It has always been that way since they built company boxes. You should know that.
Of course I know that, Red. Don't be condescending. But the corporate people I know say that they are having trouble
getting clients/customers who what to go to games. It's not because the Cardinals aren't doing well. It's because the game has become boring - mainly strike outs, walks, and 4 baggers.
I generally don't agree with you Cranny, but i do here. I am in this corporate world. We have a box at busch. People aren't even taking the tickets because baseball overall isn't the cool event....at the moment.... When City soccer tickets come up for our box there people fight over them. It's a phase i think.
I sure hope so, Adam. But unless they change 3 result baseball, it’s going to continue to be boring. Watching strike out after strike out and walk after walk waiting to see a home run isn’t a lot of fun. Especially for young people who like constant action sports.
Re: Baseball is dead to me
Posted: 04 Nov 2025 08:24 am
by OldRed
Baseball in St. Louis was near dead in the late '70's. Mr. Busch hired Whitey Herzog on a handshake and beer. Whitey made moves to improve the defense, team speed and brought excitement back to Cardinal baseball.
It's not always about spending money; it's about having someone in charge that knows what they are doing. Overpriced tickets, concessions and giving away bobble heads does not bring fans into the park, exciting baseball does.
Cardinal management has gotten stale relying on past performance and not in making good player moves to keep the team exciting for the fans.
This is my opinion from a fan, not a businessman.
And I have not used 5589 posts to defend management or 5589 posts to coitize.
Re: Baseball is dead to me
Posted: 04 Nov 2025 08:27 am
by sikeston bulldog2
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:24 am
Baseball in St. Louis was near dead in the late '70's. Mr. Busch hired Whitey Herzog on a handshake and beer. Whitey made moves to improve the defense, team speed and brought excitement back to Cardinal baseball.
It's not always about spending money; it's about having someone in charge that knows what they are doing. Overpriced tickets, concessions and giving away bobble heads does not bring fans into the park, exciting baseball does.
Cardinal management has gotten stale relying on past performance and not in making good player moves to keep the team exciting for the fans.
This is my opinion from a fan, not a businessman.
You’re saying exciting baseball brings the crowd. By that thinking the dodgers and Blue Jays should lead the attendance sheet. And the other post season teams right behind them.
I checked. At 2.7 million and above- SD, Atlanta Philly Mets cubs Dodgers Boston Yanks
Re: Baseball is dead to me
Posted: 04 Nov 2025 08:33 am
by OldRed
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:27 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:24 am
Baseball in St. Louis was near dead in the late '70's. Mr. Busch hired Whitey Herzog on a handshake and beer. Whitey made moves to improve the defense, team speed and brought excitement back to Cardinal baseball.
It's not always about spending money; it's about having someone in charge that knows what they are doing. Overpriced tickets, concessions and giving away bobble heads does not bring fans into the park, exciting baseball does.
Cardinal management has gotten stale relying on past performance and not in making good player moves to keep the team exciting for the fans.
This is my opinion from a fan, not a businessman.
You’re saying exciting baseball brings the crowd. By that thinking the dodgers and Blue Jays should lead the attendance sheet. And the other post season teams right behind them.
I checked. At 2.7 million and above- SD, Atlanta Philly Mets cubs Dodgers Boston Yanks
Los Angeles Dodgers: 35,703
San Diego Padres: 34,500
New York Yankees: 33,000
Philadelphia Phillies: 32,500
New York Mets: 32,000
Chicago Cubs: 31,500
Atlanta Braves: 31,000
San Francisco Giants: 30,500
Boston Red Sox: 30,000
Houston Astros: 29,500
Toronto Blue Jays: 29,000
Los Angeles Angels: 28,500
Milwaukee Brewers: 28,000
Texas Rangers: 27,500
Colorado Rockies: 27,000
Detroit Tigers: 26,500
St. Louis Cardinals: 26,000
Re: Baseball is dead to me
Posted: 04 Nov 2025 08:35 am
by sikeston bulldog2
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:33 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:27 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:24 am
Baseball in St. Louis was near dead in the late '70's. Mr. Busch hired Whitey Herzog on a handshake and beer. Whitey made moves to improve the defense, team speed and brought excitement back to Cardinal baseball.
It's not always about spending money; it's about having someone in charge that knows what they are doing. Overpriced tickets, concessions and giving away bobble heads does not bring fans into the park, exciting baseball does.
Cardinal management has gotten stale relying on past performance and not in making good player moves to keep the team exciting for the fans.
This is my opinion from a fan, not a businessman.
You’re saying exciting baseball brings the crowd. By that thinking the dodgers and Blue Jays should lead the attendance sheet. And the other post season teams right behind them.
I checked. At 2.7 million and above- SD, Atlanta Philly Mets cubs Dodgers Boston Yanks
Los Angeles Dodgers: 35,703
San Diego Padres: 34,500
New York Yankees: 33,000
Philadelphia Phillies: 32,500
New York Mets: 32,000
Chicago Cubs: 31,500
Atlanta Braves: 31,000
San Francisco Giants: 30,500
Boston Red Sox: 30,000
Houston Astros: 29,500
Toronto Blue Jays: 29,000
Los Angeles Angels: 28,500
Milwaukee Brewers: 28,000
Texas Rangers: 27,500
Colorado Rockies: 27,000
Detroit Tigers: 26,500
St. Louis Cardinals: 26,000
Re: Baseball is dead to me
Posted: 04 Nov 2025 08:36 am
by sikeston bulldog2
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:35 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:33 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:27 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:24 am
Baseball in St. Louis was near dead in the late '70's. Mr. Busch hired Whitey Herzog on a handshake and beer. Whitey made moves to improve the defense, team speed and brought excitement back to Cardinal baseball.
It's not always about spending money; it's about having someone in charge that knows what they are doing. Overpriced tickets, concessions and giving away bobble heads does not bring fans into the park, exciting baseball does.
Cardinal management has gotten stale relying on past performance and not in making good player moves to keep the team exciting for the fans.
This is my opinion from a fan, not a businessman.
You’re saying exciting baseball brings the crowd. By that thinking the dodgers and Blue Jays should lead the attendance sheet. And the other post season teams right behind them.
I checked. At 2.7 million and above- SD, Atlanta Philly Mets cubs Dodgers Boston Yanks
Los Angeles Dodgers: 35,703
San Diego Padres: 34,500
New York Yankees: 33,000
Philadelphia Phillies: 32,500
New York Mets: 32,000
Chicago Cubs: 31,500
Atlanta Braves: 31,000
San Francisco Giants: 30,500
Boston Red Sox: 30,000
Houston Astros: 29,500
Toronto Blue Jays: 29,000
Los Angeles Angels: 28,500
Milwaukee Brewers: 28,000
Texas Rangers: 27,500
Colorado Rockies: 27,000
Detroit Tigers: 26,500
St. Louis Cardinals: 26,000
Five of the first six were post season.
Re: Baseball is dead to me
Posted: 04 Nov 2025 09:14 am
by desertrat23
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:36 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:35 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:33 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:27 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:24 am
Baseball in St. Louis was near dead in the late '70's. Mr. Busch hired Whitey Herzog on a handshake and beer. Whitey made moves to improve the defense, team speed and brought excitement back to Cardinal baseball.
It's not always about spending money; it's about having someone in charge that knows what they are doing. Overpriced tickets, concessions and giving away bobble heads does not bring fans into the park, exciting baseball does.
Cardinal management has gotten stale relying on past performance and not in making good player moves to keep the team exciting for the fans.
This is my opinion from a fan, not a businessman.
You’re saying exciting baseball brings the crowd. By that thinking the dodgers and Blue Jays should lead the attendance sheet. And the other post season teams right behind them.
I checked. At 2.7 million and above- SD, Atlanta Philly Mets cubs Dodgers Boston Yanks
Los Angeles Dodgers: 35,703
San Diego Padres: 34,500
New York Yankees: 33,000
Philadelphia Phillies: 32,500
New York Mets: 32,000
Chicago Cubs: 31,500
Atlanta Braves: 31,000
San Francisco Giants: 30,500
Boston Red Sox: 30,000
Houston Astros: 29,500
Toronto Blue Jays: 29,000
Los Angeles Angels: 28,500
Milwaukee Brewers: 28,000
Texas Rangers: 27,500
Colorado Rockies: 27,000
Detroit Tigers: 26,500
St. Louis Cardinals: 26,000
Five of the first six were post season.
Nice to see owners and management that put a good product on the field rewarded with customer support.
Re: Baseball is dead to me
Posted: 04 Nov 2025 09:16 am
by OldRed
desertrat23 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 09:14 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:36 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:35 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:33 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:27 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:24 am
Baseball in St. Louis was near dead in the late '70's. Mr. Busch hired Whitey Herzog on a handshake and beer. Whitey made moves to improve the defense, team speed and brought excitement back to Cardinal baseball.
It's not always about spending money; it's about having someone in charge that knows what they are doing. Overpriced tickets, concessions and giving away bobble heads does not bring fans into the park, exciting baseball does.
Cardinal management has gotten stale relying on past performance and not in making good player moves to keep the team exciting for the fans.
This is my opinion from a fan, not a businessman.
You’re saying exciting baseball brings the crowd. By that thinking the dodgers and Blue Jays should lead the attendance sheet. And the other post season teams right behind them.
I checked. At 2.7 million and above- SD, Atlanta Philly Mets cubs Dodgers Boston Yanks
Los Angeles Dodgers: 35,703
San Diego Padres: 34,500
New York Yankees: 33,000
Philadelphia Phillies: 32,500
New York Mets: 32,000
Chicago Cubs: 31,500
Atlanta Braves: 31,000
San Francisco Giants: 30,500
Boston Red Sox: 30,000
Houston Astros: 29,500
Toronto Blue Jays: 29,000
Los Angeles Angels: 28,500
Milwaukee Brewers: 28,000
Texas Rangers: 27,500
Colorado Rockies: 27,000
Detroit Tigers: 26,500
St. Louis Cardinals: 26,000
Five of the first six were post season.
Nice to see owners and management that put a good product on the field rewarded with customer support.
Exactly. Would you go eat at a restaurant that doesn't serve good food? But I'm not a businessman, just a fan.
Re: Baseball is dead to me
Posted: 04 Nov 2025 10:21 am
by imetsatchelpaige
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:24 am
Baseball in St. Louis was near dead in the late '70's. Mr. Busch hired Whitey Herzog on a handshake and beer. Whitey made moves to improve the defense, team speed and brought excitement back to Cardinal baseball.
It's not always about spending money; it's about having someone in charge that knows what they are doing. Overpriced tickets, concessions and giving away bobble heads does not bring fans into the park, exciting baseball does.
Cardinal management has gotten stale relying on past performance and not in making good player moves to keep the team exciting for the fans.
This is my opinion from a fan, not a businessman.
And I have not used 5589 posts to defend management or 5589 posts to coitize.
Good post Red.
Agree
Re: Baseball is dead to me
Posted: 04 Nov 2025 10:37 am
by Cranny
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:36 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:35 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:33 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:27 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:24 am
Baseball in St. Louis was near dead in the late '70's. Mr. Busch hired Whitey Herzog on a handshake and beer. Whitey made moves to improve the defense, team speed and brought excitement back to Cardinal baseball.
It's not always about spending money; it's about having someone in charge that knows what they are doing. Overpriced tickets, concessions and giving away bobble heads does not bring fans into the park, exciting baseball does.
Cardinal management has gotten stale relying on past performance and not in making good player moves to keep the team exciting for the fans.
This is my opinion from a fan, not a businessman.
You’re saying exciting baseball brings the crowd. By that thinking the dodgers and Blue Jays should lead the attendance sheet. And the other post season teams right behind them.
I checked. At 2.7 million and above- SD, Atlanta Philly Mets cubs Dodgers Boston Yanks
Los Angeles Dodgers: 35,703
San Diego Padres: 34,500
New York Yankees: 33,000
Philadelphia Phillies: 32,500
New York Mets: 32,000
Chicago Cubs: 31,500
Atlanta Braves: 31,000
San Francisco Giants: 30,500
Boston Red Sox: 30,000
Houston Astros: 29,500
Toronto Blue Jays: 29,000
Los Angeles Angels: 28,500
Milwaukee Brewers: 28,000
Texas Rangers: 27,500
Colorado Rockies: 27,000
Detroit Tigers: 26,500
St. Louis Cardinals: 26,000
Five of the first six were post season.
Look at the size of the markets.
Re: Baseball is dead to me
Posted: 04 Nov 2025 10:41 am
by desertrat23
Cranny wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 10:37 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:36 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:35 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:33 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:27 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:24 am
Baseball in St. Louis was near dead in the late '70's. Mr. Busch hired Whitey Herzog on a handshake and beer. Whitey made moves to improve the defense, team speed and brought excitement back to Cardinal baseball.
It's not always about spending money; it's about having someone in charge that knows what they are doing. Overpriced tickets, concessions and giving away bobble heads does not bring fans into the park, exciting baseball does.
Cardinal management has gotten stale relying on past performance and not in making good player moves to keep the team exciting for the fans.
This is my opinion from a fan, not a businessman.
You’re saying exciting baseball brings the crowd. By that thinking the dodgers and Blue Jays should lead the attendance sheet. And the other post season teams right behind them.
I checked. At 2.7 million and above- SD, Atlanta Philly Mets cubs Dodgers Boston Yanks
Los Angeles Dodgers: 35,703
San Diego Padres: 34,500
New York Yankees: 33,000
Philadelphia Phillies: 32,500
New York Mets: 32,000
Chicago Cubs: 31,500
Atlanta Braves: 31,000
San Francisco Giants: 30,500
Boston Red Sox: 30,000
Houston Astros: 29,500
Toronto Blue Jays: 29,000
Los Angeles Angels: 28,500
Milwaukee Brewers: 28,000
Texas Rangers: 27,500
Colorado Rockies: 27,000
Detroit Tigers: 26,500
St. Louis Cardinals: 26,000
Five of the first six were post season.
Look at the size of the markets.
San Diego isn’t a big market. They have no local TV deal. The only thing separating Cardinals payroll from Padres payroll is the owner’s choice.
Again, we need a cap. And a floor. But BDW still has to step up.
Re: Baseball is dead to me
Posted: 04 Nov 2025 11:02 am
by ramfandan
Cranny wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 10:37 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:36 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:35 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:33 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:27 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:24 am
Baseball in St. Louis was near dead in the late '70's. Mr. Busch hired Whitey Herzog on a handshake and beer. Whitey made moves to improve the defense, team speed and brought excitement back to Cardinal baseball.
It's not always about spending money; it's about having someone in charge that knows what they are doing. Overpriced tickets, concessions and giving away bobble heads does not bring fans into the park, exciting baseball does.
Cardinal management has gotten stale relying on past performance and not in making good player moves to keep the team exciting for the fans.
This is my opinion from a fan, not a businessman.
You’re saying exciting baseball brings the crowd. By that thinking the dodgers and Blue Jays should lead the attendance sheet. And the other post season teams right behind them.
I checked. At 2.7 million and above- SD, Atlanta Philly Mets cubs Dodgers Boston Yanks
Los Angeles Dodgers: 35,703
San Diego Padres: 34,500
New York Yankees: 33,000
Philadelphia Phillies: 32,500
New York Mets: 32,000
Chicago Cubs: 31,500
Atlanta Braves: 31,000
San Francisco Giants: 30,500
Boston Red Sox: 30,000
Houston Astros: 29,500
Toronto Blue Jays: 29,000
Los Angeles Angels: 28,500
Milwaukee Brewers: 28,000
Texas Rangers: 27,500
Colorado Rockies: 27,000
Detroit Tigers: 26,500
St. Louis Cardinals: 26,000
Five of the first six were post season.
Look at the size of the markets.
Thank you , Cranny ! For years now, I don't understand how fans compare stadium attendance of various clubs and not consider the vast difference in metro populations of each. When I brought that up to a buddy a couple years ago, his reply was well NY, LA, and Chicago have TWO teams . My reply to that was .. Well NY has a metro pop. over 20+M , LA has 13-18 M, chicago 9.6-9.9 M while St. Louis has 2.8 M
Even with two MLB teams those 3 markets alone have a range of 10 times to nearly 4 times as many people to draw from to attend games.
It's the same with TV monies generated by teams. LAD get $334M per in their deal with Spectrum while the Cardinals get $50? M maybe from their revised deal in St. Louis after Bally bankruptcy. Some falsely think that a team in St. Louis should be able to go toe to toe financially with the 'big boy' market teams . Under the current system, that is pie in the sky .
Re: Baseball is dead to me
Posted: 04 Nov 2025 11:03 am
by sikeston bulldog2
Cranny wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 10:37 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:36 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:35 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:33 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:27 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:24 am
Baseball in St. Louis was near dead in the late '70's. Mr. Busch hired Whitey Herzog on a handshake and beer. Whitey made moves to improve the defense, team speed and brought excitement back to Cardinal baseball.
It's not always about spending money; it's about having someone in charge that knows what they are doing. Overpriced tickets, concessions and giving away bobble heads does not bring fans into the park, exciting baseball does.
Cardinal management has gotten stale relying on past performance and not in making good player moves to keep the team exciting for the fans.
This is my opinion from a fan, not a businessman.
You’re saying exciting baseball brings the crowd. By that thinking the dodgers and Blue Jays should lead the attendance sheet. And the other post season teams right behind them.
I checked. At 2.7 million and above- SD, Atlanta Philly Mets cubs Dodgers Boston Yanks
Los Angeles Dodgers: 35,703
San Diego Padres: 34,500
New York Yankees: 33,000
Philadelphia Phillies: 32,500
New York Mets: 32,000
Chicago Cubs: 31,500
Atlanta Braves: 31,000
San Francisco Giants: 30,500
Boston Red Sox: 30,000
Houston Astros: 29,500
Toronto Blue Jays: 29,000
Los Angeles Angels: 28,500
Milwaukee Brewers: 28,000
Texas Rangers: 27,500
Colorado Rockies: 27,000
Detroit Tigers: 26,500
St. Louis Cardinals: 26,000
Five of the first six were post season.
Look at the size of the markets.
You said it not me- size of market. That will not decrease. Under this premise we will always lag behind.
The sixth team of the top six who didn’t make post season was the Mets. Another huge un competitive market.
Re: Baseball is dead to me
Posted: 04 Nov 2025 11:08 am
by desertrat23
ramfandan wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 11:02 am
Cranny wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 10:37 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:36 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:35 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:33 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:27 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:24 am
Baseball in St. Louis was near dead in the late '70's. Mr. Busch hired Whitey Herzog on a handshake and beer. Whitey made moves to improve the defense, team speed and brought excitement back to Cardinal baseball.
It's not always about spending money; it's about having someone in charge that knows what they are doing. Overpriced tickets, concessions and giving away bobble heads does not bring fans into the park, exciting baseball does.
Cardinal management has gotten stale relying on past performance and not in making good player moves to keep the team exciting for the fans.
This is my opinion from a fan, not a businessman.
You’re saying exciting baseball brings the crowd. By that thinking the dodgers and Blue Jays should lead the attendance sheet. And the other post season teams right behind them.
I checked. At 2.7 million and above- SD, Atlanta Philly Mets cubs Dodgers Boston Yanks
Los Angeles Dodgers: 35,703
San Diego Padres: 34,500
New York Yankees: 33,000
Philadelphia Phillies: 32,500
New York Mets: 32,000
Chicago Cubs: 31,500
Atlanta Braves: 31,000
San Francisco Giants: 30,500
Boston Red Sox: 30,000
Houston Astros: 29,500
Toronto Blue Jays: 29,000
Los Angeles Angels: 28,500
Milwaukee Brewers: 28,000
Texas Rangers: 27,500
Colorado Rockies: 27,000
Detroit Tigers: 26,500
St. Louis Cardinals: 26,000
Five of the first six were post season.
Look at the size of the markets.
Thank you , Cranny ! For years now, I don't understand how fans compare stadium attendance of various clubs and not consider the vast difference in metro populations of each. When I brought that up to a buddy a couple years ago, his reply was well NY, LA, and Chicago have TWO teams . My reply to that was .. Well NY has a metro pop. over 20+M , LA has 13-18 M, chicago 9.6-9.9 M while St. Louis has 2.8 M
Even with two MLB teams those 3 markets alone have a range of 10 times to nearly 4 times as many people to draw from to attend games.
It's the same with TV monies generated by teams. LAD get $334M per in their deal with Spectrum while the Cardinals get $50? M maybe from their revised deal in St. Louis after Bally bankruptcy. Some falsely think that a team in St. Louis should be able to go toe to toe financially with the 'big boy' market teams . Under the current system, that is pie in the sky .
Walk me through the Padres’ TV deal and how it compares to the Cardinals’. I’m with you on the Dodgers, Mets, and Yankees but there’s no excuse to not do what the Padres do.
Re: Baseball is dead to me
Posted: 04 Nov 2025 11:13 am
by Cranny
desertrat23 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 11:08 am
ramfandan wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 11:02 am
Cranny wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 10:37 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:36 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:35 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:33 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:27 am
OldRed wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:24 am
Baseball in St. Louis was near dead in the late '70's. Mr. Busch hired Whitey Herzog on a handshake and beer. Whitey made moves to improve the defense, team speed and brought excitement back to Cardinal baseball.
It's not always about spending money; it's about having someone in charge that knows what they are doing. Overpriced tickets, concessions and giving away bobble heads does not bring fans into the park, exciting baseball does.
Cardinal management has gotten stale relying on past performance and not in making good player moves to keep the team exciting for the fans.
This is my opinion from a fan, not a businessman.
You’re saying exciting baseball brings the crowd. By that thinking the dodgers and Blue Jays should lead the attendance sheet. And the other post season teams right behind them.
I checked. At 2.7 million and above- SD, Atlanta Philly Mets cubs Dodgers Boston Yanks
Los Angeles Dodgers: 35,703
San Diego Padres: 34,500
New York Yankees: 33,000
Philadelphia Phillies: 32,500
New York Mets: 32,000
Chicago Cubs: 31,500
Atlanta Braves: 31,000
San Francisco Giants: 30,500
Boston Red Sox: 30,000
Houston Astros: 29,500
Toronto Blue Jays: 29,000
Los Angeles Angels: 28,500
Milwaukee Brewers: 28,000
Texas Rangers: 27,500
Colorado Rockies: 27,000
Detroit Tigers: 26,500
St. Louis Cardinals: 26,000
Five of the first six were post season.
Look at the size of the markets.
Thank you , Cranny ! For years now, I don't understand how fans compare stadium attendance of various clubs and not consider the vast difference in metro populations of each. When I brought that up to a buddy a couple years ago, his reply was well NY, LA, and Chicago have TWO teams . My reply to that was .. Well NY has a metro pop. over 20+M , LA has 13-18 M, chicago 9.6-9.9 M while St. Louis has 2.8 M
Even with two MLB teams those 3 markets alone have a range of 10 times to nearly 4 times as many people to draw from to attend games.
It's the same with TV monies generated by teams. LAD get $334M per in their deal with Spectrum while the Cardinals get $50? M maybe from their revised deal in St. Louis after Bally bankruptcy. Some falsely think that a team in St. Louis should be able to go toe to toe financially with the 'big boy' market teams . Under the current system, that is pie in the sky .
Walk me through the Padres’ TV deal and how it compares to the Cardinals’. I’m with you on the Dodgers, Mets, and Yankees but there’s no excuse to not do what the Padres do.
The Padres are owned by a private equity group that has access ro almost unlimited funds. They bought Rawlings Sporting Goods not too long ago.
Re: Baseball is dead to me
Posted: 04 Nov 2025 11:43 am
by StlMike1969
There are numerous factors that are contributing to the decline of attendance in my opinion.
1. Wokeism. MLB did it to itself like other sports. They decided to wade into the culture pool and ended up on the wrong side of who their true base was. A majority of people follow a path of being supposedly open minded when they are young that is fed heavily by the educational system to hate all things conservative. Then once they get real jobs, businesses, buy homes and have children most start to understand that their beliefs have been jaded from one side and start going against their early beliefs. They also become the majority base of population that then visit professional sporting events. In the last 10 years or so many of these people have become awake on a grand scale about the bread and circus events and when MLB went into the tide pool backed out from spending their $.
2. The destruction of the American mind set. Since the 70's we have started to see a decline in Americanism that was brought on purposely by a group of people playing the long game meant to lead us to where we are today. Baseball was an American sport woven into the fabric of our society. Point 1 illustrates this and where we are today.
3. Downtown crime, traffic and violence. Stadiums are most often encircled by lower cost neighborhoods and a difficult drive to get to. The game is too expensive and not dramatic enough at 162 games to warrant the time and money spent to go to a game when you can just watch it from home.
4. Other points made about corporate sponsors.