Is Burleson the future first baseman?

[OldRed]

Contreras is 33 years old.

Burleson is 26 years old.

I thought this team was rebuilding for the future.

That was not your argument earlier.

Sure it was. He has close to identical production as Contreras and is 7 years younger.

[Shady]

He's a throw in when Bloom makes his pay for a starting pitcher.

He's been one of Oli's pets.

Unless the organization stays braindead and keeps Oli, Bumbles supporter is gone!

Instead of trading Burleson for needed pitching. Maybe figure out a way to shed a good portion of some salaries. Then spend it on additional pitching.

[Basil Shabazz]

Contreras is 33 years old.

Burleson is 26 years old.

I thought this team was rebuilding for the future.

That was not your argument earlier.

Sure it was. He has close to identical production as Contreras and is 7 years younger.

You said....

Burleson runs and plays first as good as Contreras. I just don't understand the love for Contreras an aging player who is very much over paid. And as I said before Burleson stats are as good if not better Contreras.

Also, Contreras is not overpaid. He is paid to hit 6th(maybe 5th at the best) in a good lineup. He earns every bit of his pay. Contreras isn't the problem. The problem is Goldy and Nado both aged out quickly and left Contreras as the main run producer for this offense, and that is not who Contreras is, nor is it how he is getting paid.

[Shady]

Contreras is 33 years old.

Burleson is 26 years old.

I thought this team was rebuilding for the future.

That was not your argument earlier.

Sure it was. He has close to identical production as Contreras and is 7 years younger.

You said....

Burleson runs and plays first as good as Contreras. I just don't understand the love for Contreras an aging player who is very much over paid. And as I said before Burleson stats are as good if not better Contreras.

Also, Contreras is not overpaid. He is paid to hit 6th(maybe 5th at the best) in a good lineup. He earns every bit of his pay. Contreras isn't the problem. The problem is Goldy and Nado both aged out quickly and left Contreras as the main run producer for this offense, and that is not who Contreras is, nor is it how he is getting paid.

So what are Burleson's expectations based on his salary? Isn't he a pretty good value, right now?

[OldRed]

Contreras is 33 years old.

Burleson is 26 years old.

I thought this team was rebuilding for the future.

That was not your argument earlier.

Sure it was. He has close to identical production as Contreras and is 7 years younger.

You said....

Burleson runs and plays first as good as Contreras. I just don't understand the love for Contreras an aging player who is very much over paid. And as I said before Burleson stats are as good if not better Contreras.

Also, Contreras is not overpaid. He is paid to hit 6th(maybe 5th at the best) in a good lineup. He earns every bit of his pay. Contreras isn't the problem. The problem is Goldy and Nado both aged out quickly and left Contreras as the main run producer for this offense, and that is not who Contreras is, nor is it how he is getting paid.

He was getting paid to catch. Not play first base. He will fade just like most other 33 year old players.

[bccardsfan]

You need to check Burleson's stats from last year and this year. He has the potential to be much better offensively than Contrares has been at any point in his career.

Get back to me when Burly does this over 400+ PAs

.272 .355 .533 .888

It will never happen.

I know all about "potential". I am Basil Shabazz. Google it.

Exactly. Burley will do that for a month at a time once or twice a season. The problem is that WC is a perfectly good #5 or #6 hitter in a deep lineup. If he is in the #3 or 4 spot you have a weak lineup. We do. Burley, the same. We don't have a #3 and #4 hitter and on many days, nothing below #7. When we do hit, then we don't pitch. When we pitch, we often don't hit. We don't really have a good #1 hitter either. A mediocre team that will be within 5 games either way of .500, led by a manager who is mediocre and cannot get them up to play bad teams. The org is led by a very mediocre POBO with no direction, and owned by a group who fell asleep at the wheel and didn't keep the car out of the ditch. Rant over...

Not a rant, brother, spot on.

We are void of at least 1 top-end starter and 2 real bats to plug in 2-4. We have all the complementary pieces we need. We have too many complementary pieces.

You are either packaging extra complementary pieces and prospects for a player of need, or you are ponying up BDWJs money and getting aggressive in the free agent market.

Yes, there are many redundancies in the system. Lots of middle infielders, catchers in the minors, but a huge lack of pitching prospects who might actually be a top of the rotation starter. Hence this year's first round pick. Ownership will not go above $150-180M. No way. So it is trade and build and develop from within. Guys who are arb eligible will be gone before they get a payday except for the one or two guys who you want to keep. Hopefully JJ, maybe Winn, etc.... That is the model we will see. But at least we won't have to listen to MO, watch him sign absolute garbage players like Motter and Hampson who clog up the 40 man and insult the fan base. Seriously? You have Siani who can fill the Hampson role. Hampson saves a few bucks... Re-upping Marmol with the comment that we don't want him to feel pressure to win. Great way to energize the fan base! That is downright insulting to the fan base. At least show that you are making the most use of the budget you are given and have a freaking PLAN. I think most of us realize the budget will be $150M or so. OK, let's see them use it wisely. Hire a real manager and pitching coach too while you are at it. Change the entire culture around the on field team. I am looking forward to the off season for once. MO will not be making ANY decisions. Whether ownership will tie Bloom's hands remains to be seen.

Yes and I agree WC is not the problem, as I stated above. He should be your #5 or #6 hitter and that is how he is paid. He plays a decent 1B. Fine. Fix the rest of the lineup and Burley is a JAG. You need a couple of glue players like Donnie, a great defensive SS like Winn, and two more GOOD bats for #3 and #4, be they corner OFers, third baseman, whatever. Also two decent SPs. Gray is a #2 at best. Let's see what happens in the off season to start addressing the needs that we all see. Burley is a complimentary piece or trade fodder.

[Shady]

You need to check Burleson's stats from last year and this year. He has the potential to be much better offensively than Contrares has been at any point in his career.

Get back to me when Burly does this over 400+ PAs

.272 .355 .533 .888

It will never happen.

I know all about "potential". I am Basil Shabazz. Google it.

Exactly. Burley will do that for a month at a time once or twice a season. The problem is that WC is a perfectly good #5 or #6 hitter in a deep lineup. If he is in the #3 or 4 spot you have a weak lineup. We do. Burley, the same. We don't have a #3 and #4 hitter and on many days, nothing below #7. When we do hit, then we don't pitch. When we pitch, we often don't hit. We don't really have a good #1 hitter either. A mediocre team that will be within 5 games either way of .500, led by a manager who is mediocre and cannot get them up to play bad teams. The org is led by a very mediocre POBO with no direction, and owned by a group who fell asleep at the wheel and didn't keep the car out of the ditch. Rant over...

Not a rant, brother, spot on.

We are void of at least 1 top-end starter and 2 real bats to plug in 2-4. We have all the complementary pieces we need. We have too many complementary pieces.

You are either packaging extra complementary pieces and prospects for a player of need, or you are ponying up BDWJs money and getting aggressive in the free agent market.

Yes, there are many redundancies in the system. Lots of middle infielders, catchers in the minors, but a huge lack of pitching prospects who might actually be a top of the rotation starter. Hence this year's first round pick. Ownership will not go above $150-180M. No way. So it is trade and build and develop from within. Guys who are arb eligible will be gone before they get a payday except for the one or two guys who you want to keep. Hopefully JJ, maybe Winn, etc.... That is the model we will see. But at least we won't have to listen to MO, watch him sign absolute garbage players like Motter and Hampson who clog up the 40 man and insult the fan base. Seriously? You have Siani who can fill the Hampson role. Hampson saves a few bucks... Re-upping Marmol with the comment that we don't want him to feel pressure to win. Great way to energize the fan base! That is downright insulting to the fan base. At least show that you are making the most use of the budget you are given and have a freaking PLAN. I think most of us realize the budget will be $150M or so. OK, let's see them use it wisely. Hire a real manager and pitching coach too while you are at it. Change the entire culture around the on field team. I am looking forward to the off season for once. MO will not be making ANY decisions. Whether ownership will tie Bloom's hands remains to be seen.

Yes and I agree WC is not the problem, as I stated above. He should be your #5 or #6 hitter and that is how he is paid. He plays a decent 1B. Fine. Fix the rest of the lineup and Burley is a JAG. You need a couple of glue players like Donnie, a great defensive SS like Winn, and two more GOOD bats for #3 and #4, be they corner OFers, third baseman, whatever. Also two decent SPs. Gray is a #2 at best. Let's see what happens in the off season to start addressing the needs that we all see. Burley is a complimentary piece or trade fodder.

Burleson ain't going to be traded for a while with his production/salary ratio. Many posters don't see the value. The organization likely does.

[bccardsfan]

You need to check Burleson's stats from last year and this year. He has the potential to be much better offensively than Contrares has been at any point in his career.

Get back to me when Burly does this over 400+ PAs

.272 .355 .533 .888

It will never happen.

I know all about "potential". I am Basil Shabazz. Google it.

Exactly. Burley will do that for a month at a time once or twice a season. The problem is that WC is a perfectly good #5 or #6 hitter in a deep lineup. If he is in the #3 or 4 spot you have a weak lineup. We do. Burley, the same. We don't have a #3 and #4 hitter and on many days, nothing below #7. When we do hit, then we don't pitch. When we pitch, we often don't hit. We don't really have a good #1 hitter either. A mediocre team that will be within 5 games either way of .500, led by a manager who is mediocre and cannot get them up to play bad teams. The org is led by a very mediocre POBO with no direction, and owned by a group who fell asleep at the wheel and didn't keep the car out of the ditch. Rant over...

Not a rant, brother, spot on.

We are void of at least 1 top-end starter and 2 real bats to plug in 2-4. We have all the complementary pieces we need. We have too many complementary pieces.

You are either packaging extra complementary pieces and prospects for a player of need, or you are ponying up BDWJs money and getting aggressive in the free agent market.

Yes, there are many redundancies in the system. Lots of middle infielders, catchers in the minors, but a huge lack of pitching prospects who might actually be a top of the rotation starter. Hence this year's first round pick. Ownership will not go above $150-180M. No way. So it is trade and build and develop from within. Guys who are arb eligible will be gone before they get a payday except for the one or two guys who you want to keep. Hopefully JJ, maybe Winn, etc.... That is the model we will see. But at least we won't have to listen to MO, watch him sign absolute garbage players like Motter and Hampson who clog up the 40 man and insult the fan base. Seriously? You have Siani who can fill the Hampson role. Hampson saves a few bucks... Re-upping Marmol with the comment that we don't want him to feel pressure to win. Great way to energize the fan base! That is downright insulting to the fan base. At least show that you are making the most use of the budget you are given and have a freaking PLAN. I think most of us realize the budget will be $150M or so. OK, let's see them use it wisely. Hire a real manager and pitching coach too while you are at it. Change the entire culture around the on field team. I am looking forward to the off season for once. MO will not be making ANY decisions. Whether ownership will tie Bloom's hands remains to be seen.

Yes and I agree WC is not the problem, as I stated above. He should be your #5 or #6 hitter and that is how he is paid. He plays a decent 1B. Fine. Fix the rest of the lineup and Burley is a JAG. You need a couple of glue players like Donnie, a great defensive SS like Winn, and two more GOOD bats for #3 and #4, be they corner OFers, third baseman, whatever. Also two decent SPs. Gray is a #2 at best. Let's see what happens in the off season to start addressing the needs that we all see. Burley is a complimentary piece or trade fodder.

Burleson ain't going to be traded for a while with his production/salary ratio. Many posters don't see the value. The organization likely does.

I disagree. If he is part of a deal to fill needs, then he will be gone. It all depends on his value in trade as well as his value being here. I suspect he is not traded simply because other teams don't value him as much as you do. He is not a bad player, but he is not a great player. Most of us see this except for you. He is not a guy you build a team around. He is filler. A complimentary piece on a good team, not a core player on a good team. If you don't wish to believe that fine. We are all entitled to our opinion.

[NYCardsFan]

Burleson ain't going to be traded for a while with his production/salary ratio. Many posters don't see the value. The organization likely does.

Every halfway decent role player making MLB minimum is going to be a good “value.” If Burleson were a 1.0 WAR player (which is almost double his career WAR/150), he’d be good “value” for $779k. That doesn’t mean he’s a good player.

And other teams can see the same rough expected surplus value in him while he’s cost-controlled, which is what gives him real trade value.

[Shady]

You need to check Burleson's stats from last year and this year. He has the potential to be much better offensively than Contrares has been at any point in his career.

Get back to me when Burly does this over 400+ PAs

.272 .355 .533 .888

It will never happen.

I know all about "potential". I am Basil Shabazz. Google it.

Exactly. Burley will do that for a month at a time once or twice a season. The problem is that WC is a perfectly good #5 or #6 hitter in a deep lineup. If he is in the #3 or 4 spot you have a weak lineup. We do. Burley, the same. We don't have a #3 and #4 hitter and on many days, nothing below #7. When we do hit, then we don't pitch. When we pitch, we often don't hit. We don't really have a good #1 hitter either. A mediocre team that will be within 5 games either way of .500, led by a manager who is mediocre and cannot get them up to play bad teams. The org is led by a very mediocre POBO with no direction, and owned by a group who fell asleep at the wheel and didn't keep the car out of the ditch. Rant over...

Not a rant, brother, spot on.

We are void of at least 1 top-end starter and 2 real bats to plug in 2-4. We have all the complementary pieces we need. We have too many complementary pieces.

You are either packaging extra complementary pieces and prospects for a player of need, or you are ponying up BDWJs money and getting aggressive in the free agent market.

Yes, there are many redundancies in the system. Lots of middle infielders, catchers in the minors, but a huge lack of pitching prospects who might actually be a top of the rotation starter. Hence this year's first round pick. Ownership will not go above $150-180M. No way. So it is trade and build and develop from within. Guys who are arb eligible will be gone before they get a payday except for the one or two guys who you want to keep. Hopefully JJ, maybe Winn, etc.... That is the model we will see. But at least we won't have to listen to MO, watch him sign absolute garbage players like Motter and Hampson who clog up the 40 man and insult the fan base. Seriously? You have Siani who can fill the Hampson role. Hampson saves a few bucks... Re-upping Marmol with the comment that we don't want him to feel pressure to win. Great way to energize the fan base! That is downright insulting to the fan base. At least show that you are making the most use of the budget you are given and have a freaking PLAN. I think most of us realize the budget will be $150M or so. OK, let's see them use it wisely. Hire a real manager and pitching coach too while you are at it. Change the entire culture around the on field team. I am looking forward to the off season for once. MO will not be making ANY decisions. Whether ownership will tie Bloom's hands remains to be seen.

Yes and I agree WC is not the problem, as I stated above. He should be your #5 or #6 hitter and that is how he is paid. He plays a decent 1B. Fine. Fix the rest of the lineup and Burley is a JAG. You need a couple of glue players like Donnie, a great defensive SS like Winn, and two more GOOD bats for #3 and #4, be they corner OFers, third baseman, whatever. Also two decent SPs. Gray is a #2 at best. Let's see what happens in the off season to start addressing the needs that we all see. Burley is a complimentary piece or trade fodder.

Burleson ain't going to be traded for a while with his production/salary ratio. Many posters don't see the value. The organization likely does.

I disagree. If he is part of a deal to fill needs, then he will be gone. It all depends on his value in trade as well as his value being here. I suspect he is not traded simply because other teams don't value him as much as you do. He is not a bad player, but he is not a great player. Most of us see this except for you. He is not a guy you build a team around. He is filler. A complimentary piece on a good team, not a core player on a good team. If you don't wish to believe that fine. We are all entitled to our opinion.

Do you really feel the Cardinals would rather let Burleson go and put their hopes in the likes of Walker, Gorman and Nootbaar instead, right now? Wake up ! The fact that Burleson is batting where he is in the lineup compared to Walker, Gorman and Nootbaar should give you a hint.

[ScotchMIrish]

Contreras is here through 2027 with club option for 2028. He strikes out to much for my liking and I'd prefer Burleson but I suppose it depends on multiple factors. Contreras is limited to 1B/DH. Burleson can apparently play RF. Do we have a better DH than either of those two? What is Burleson's best defensive position?

[Adam2]

You need to check Burleson's stats from last year and this year. He has the potential to be much better offensively than Contrares has been at any point in his career.

Get back to me when Burly does this over 400+ PAs

.272 .355 .533 .888

It will never happen.

I know all about "potential". I am Basil Shabazz. Google it.

Exactly. Burley will do that for a month at a time once or twice a season. The problem is that WC is a perfectly good #5 or #6 hitter in a deep lineup. If he is in the #3 or 4 spot you have a weak lineup. We do. Burley, the same. We don't have a #3 and #4 hitter and on many days, nothing below #7. When we do hit, then we don't pitch. When we pitch, we often don't hit. We don't really have a good #1 hitter either. A mediocre team that will be within 5 games either way of .500, led by a manager who is mediocre and cannot get them up to play bad teams. The org is led by a very mediocre POBO with no direction, and owned by a group who fell asleep at the wheel and didn't keep the car out of the ditch. Rant over...

Not a rant, brother, spot on.

We are void of at least 1 top-end starter and 2 real bats to plug in 2-4. We have all the complementary pieces we need. We have too many complementary pieces.

You are either packaging extra complementary pieces and prospects for a player of need, or you are ponying up BDWJs money and getting aggressive in the free agent market.

Yes, there are many redundancies in the system. Lots of middle infielders, catchers in the minors, but a huge lack of pitching prospects who might actually be a top of the rotation starter. Hence this year's first round pick. Ownership will not go above $150-180M. No way. So it is trade and build and develop from within. Guys who are arb eligible will be gone before they get a payday except for the one or two guys who you want to keep. Hopefully JJ, maybe Winn, etc.... That is the model we will see. But at least we won't have to listen to MO, watch him sign absolute garbage players like Motter and Hampson who clog up the 40 man and insult the fan base. Seriously? You have Siani who can fill the Hampson role. Hampson saves a few bucks... Re-upping Marmol with the comment that we don't want him to feel pressure to win. Great way to energize the fan base! That is downright insulting to the fan base. At least show that you are making the most use of the budget you are given and have a freaking PLAN. I think most of us realize the budget will be $150M or so. OK, let's see them use it wisely. Hire a real manager and pitching coach too while you are at it. Change the entire culture around the on field team. I am looking forward to the off season for once. MO will not be making ANY decisions. Whether ownership will tie Bloom's hands remains to be seen.

Yes and I agree WC is not the problem, as I stated above. He should be your #5 or #6 hitter and that is how he is paid. He plays a decent 1B. Fine. Fix the rest of the lineup and Burley is a JAG. You need a couple of glue players like Donnie, a great defensive SS like Winn, and two more GOOD bats for #3 and #4, be they corner OFers, third baseman, whatever. Also two decent SPs. Gray is a #2 at best. Let's see what happens in the off season to start addressing the needs that we all see. Burley is a complimentary piece or trade fodder.

Burleson ain't going to be traded for a while with his production/salary ratio. Many posters don't see the value. The organization likely does.

I disagree. If he is part of a deal to fill needs, then he will be gone. It all depends on his value in trade as well as his value being here. I suspect he is not traded simply because other teams don't value him as much as you do. He is not a bad player, but he is not a great player. Most of us see this except for you. He is not a guy you build a team around. He is filler. A complimentary piece on a good team, not a core player on a good team. If you don't wish to believe that fine. We are all entitled to our opinion.

Do you really feel the Cardinals would rather let Burleson go and put their hopes in the likes of Walker, Gorman and Nootbaar instead, right now. Wake up !

That would depend on what type of offer you got for Burleson. Odds are he won't be traded because he isn't going to bring any significant return.

[Shady]

Contreras is here through 2027 with club option for 2028. He strikes out to much for my liking and I'd prefer Burleson but I suppose it depends on multiple factors. Contreras is limited to 1B/DH. Burleson can apparently play RF. Do we have a better DH than either of those two? What is Burleson's best defensive position?

First base appears to be "Burleson's best defensive position".

[rockondlouie]

He's a throw in when Bloom makes his pay for a starting pitcher.

He's been one of Oli's pets.

Unless the organization stays braindead and keeps Oli, Bumbles supporter is gone!

Instead of trading Burleson for needed pitching. Maybe figure out a way to shed a good portion of some salaries. Then spend it on additional pitching.

The problem is redundancy at too many positions.

Burly isn't going to supplant WillyC at first base and if we're being honest he's not an OF'er either.

He could however be here as a DH option vs RHP if they move on from N. Gorman (and Gorman would be the throw in for a starting pitcher).

Understand, I'm not suggesting they're "dumping" Burly, just throwing him in on any big deal for a starting pitcher because he does have some value for team in need of of LH'd platoon at 1st base or DH.

[ecleme22]

My theory is correct.

Burleson's last 7 days: .802 OPS
Conteras's last 7 days: .542 OPS

OldRed criticizing Willson is like herpes. It lies dormant. But man, once WC has a little cold streak, then his whole contract is put into question by Old Red.

[ScotchMIrish]

Contreras is here through 2027 with club option for 2028. He strikes out to much for my liking and I'd prefer Burleson but I suppose it depends on multiple factors. Contreras is limited to 1B/DH. Burleson can apparently play RF. Do we have a better DH than either of those two? What is Burleson's best defensive position?

First base appears to be "Burleson's best defensive position".

It's also Contreras' only defensive position. Which is the better first baseman and does the team have a better DH than either of those two? Contreras strikes out too much and there is too much drama surrounding him for my liking but he isn't going anywhere until after the 2027 season.