Re: Four players I don't see the Cardinals trading at the deadline
Posted: 17 Jul 2025 09:33 am
I think you’re just caught in the ebbs and flows of baseball. Winn still has a solid .751 OPS batting 2nd this year. He is hitting better vs RHP this year (.729 OPS) than last year, but hasn’t hit LHP like he did last year. He’s hitting .294 with RISP. He’s a young SS with a special arm and ability defensively. He’s made huge strides in that area as well with an improvement in OAA and his lack of errors/decision making skills are off the charts for a young kid IMO. I can’t stress that enough how important that development has been. Again, for comparison’s sake, Renteria averaged 26 errors his first 3 years with St. Louis. Winn has 2…TWO… errors this year. He’s got the makeup to be a great Cardinal and unique attributes that people shouldn’t take lightly. And while his offense isn’t elite, I think he’s solid enough.rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 09:27 amFuturegm2 wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 09:19 amYou’re comparing his PRIME years. Winn is still just 23 years old. Renteria didn’t become the Renteria you’re thinking of until 25 years old. And even then he was inconsistent. He was bad in his age 24 season (.685 OPS), he was bad in his age 27 and 28 seasons when he had a .728 OPS (88 OPS+) and .721 OPS (89 OPS+), and he was bad after 30. He basically had 5 good years his whole career. And again you have to remember the time that he played in, which is why I use OPS+. Comparatively, Winn has been similar to Renteria.rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 09:13 amEdgar's top 3 seasons (2002-2004) as a Cardinal:Futuregm2 wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 08:54 amRenteria first 6 years OPS+rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 08:46 amI'm not as high on him BDog, NO WAY I see a Renteria type hitter or even close to an Ozzie type glove.sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 08:33 amWinn is a keeper. I see a Renteria type hitter, an Ozzie type glove, and a Templeton type arm.rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 08:25 amI can see your point scouty.scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 16:32 pmI deal any and all. None are untouchablerockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:58 pm In the right deal, I'd trade Burleson and Winn (JJW on the way and can play SS).
Agree on not dealing Donny or Hererra.
BUT given the return is nothing but prospects, the vast majority who become suspects, I'm keeping Donny (all-star) and Hererra (could finally get his OF'ers glove I've been clamoring for since last season) to build around.
JMO
Gibson had Maxvill. The worst hitting position player in baseball.
Donovan Winn McG Herrera Gorman- my future first baseman.
Better arm than Temp though.
Perhaps the Cardinals aren't either given JJW is getting so much time at SS?
I'd deal him for the right major league player, not a prospect.
FLA 1996: 102
FLA 1997: 80
FLA 1998: 88
STL 1999: 84
STL 2000: 93
STL 2001: 77
Winn First 3 years OPS+
2023: 28 ***137 PA***
2024: 102
2025: 95
Renteria never hit more than 16 HRs in a season in his career. Winn had 15 last year. Renteria was a .279 hitter in his first 6 years with a .716 OPS in the steroid era. Winn is hitting .263 with a .717 OPS over the last 2 years in a down era in offense. The one area that Renteria does much better than Winn is steal bases. But other than that, at the same points in their career I don’t see much of a difference. I think it’s a pretty good comp.
458 GP
255 RBI's (Renteria blows away Winn)
257 Runs scored
73 SB's (Same here)
.308 .362 .440 .802 (Same w/BA, SLG and OB%)
11.9 bWAR
2 Gold Gloves
2 Silver Sluggers
All-Star
NO WAY I ever see Winn matching that kind of production over a three year period.
But if he's here, then I hope I'm wrong.
And if we just do Age 21-23 seasons (Winn's of course still in progress but trending downward):
Edgar:
30 HR
170 RBI
265 Runs
99 SB's
.278 .342 .390 .732
Masyn (and counting 7/18-seasons end):
24 HR
101 RBI
148 Runs
18 SB's
.252 .305 .383 .688
Edgar was a superior player both at the plate, in the field and on the basepaths.
JMO
Renteria’ first 6 years: .716 OPS/85 OPS+
Renteria’s last 8 years: .733 OPS/92 OPS+
He had a great 2 year stretch in 2002-03 and 2006-07. Other than that, he’s no more different than Winn right now.
And right now Winn has the best fWAR on the Cardinals at 2.6. Renteria had 1 season with a better fWAR than that in his first 6 years and this will be Winn’s 2nd season like that.
We'll just disagree here
The real issue is the other players around him in the lineup. If you have a Pujols, then you don’t mind a Renteria type hitter. When you don’t have a Pujols, then it’s “Winn isn’t hitting for enough offense and is overrated!”.