When the collective bargaining agreement ends after 2026

[rockondlouie]

NL owners need to get rid of the DH. The experiment has failed. Attendance is down. TV deal collapsing due to viewership.

I doubt they are smart enough to do it or tough enough to stand up to the unions.

-NL loses the DH

-The idiotic, Little League Ghost runner literally disappears

-Japan/Korean League players must be subjected to the draft and NOT allowed to be signed as free agents (take that Dodgers), then given free agency after three years

-Interleague play is banished

-Pitchers don't have to face three batters before a change and can throw over to first as many times as they want

What makes baseball great is the strategic element, too much of it has been taken out of the game w/many of the above.

JMO

Interleague play has existed in baseball for almost thirty years. What’s next, no domed stadiums?

Stop looking backward.

Who the e f f are you to decide what someone should or shouldn't think?

Interleague play has S U C K E D for 28 years, the novelty wore off long ago and I was against it from Day 1.

Same w/the DH.

You say we're "stuck in the past"............I say "If it isn't broke, then why try and fix it" with STUPID GIMMICKS like the DH and Interleague play (I won't even get into Manfred's idiotic rule changes again).

Unlike you I respect your opinion, you need to respect others who "look back" and see a WAY, WAY BETTER brand of baseball.

I like it as is, i understand you prefer it as it was. But for the overall popularity of the game "as is" is better for it. A kid in the stands at dodger stadium will remember seeing Aaron Judge. A kid in Yankee stadium will remember seeing Shohei Ohtani.

They don't care to see the Rockies or the Rays a few extra times a year.

You can't argue that

Gotta tell ya' Adam as a kid I knew who most of the players were on AL teams w/o having them come to Busch Stadium.

Seeing them on The Game of the Week, All-Star games and World Series was all we needed.

But like I said above, I respect those who like this brand of baseball........they may not have seen anything else.

I was lucky to see a much better brand in the 70's-80's-early 90's, trust me it was better.

I saw that brand of baseball. It was better.

It’s gone and not coming back.

No arguments there rat', but it's still fun to beeetch about it.

[Adam2]

NL owners need to get rid of the DH. The experiment has failed. Attendance is down. TV deal collapsing due to viewership.

I doubt they are smart enough to do it or tough enough to stand up to the unions.

-NL loses the DH

-The idiotic, Little League Ghost runner literally disappears

-Japan/Korean League players must be subjected to the draft and NOT allowed to be signed as free agents (take that Dodgers), then given free agency after three years

-Interleague play is banished

-Pitchers don't have to face three batters before a change and can throw over to first as many times as they want

What makes baseball great is the strategic element, too much of it has been taken out of the game w/many of the above.

JMO

Interleague play has existed in baseball for almost thirty years. What’s next, no domed stadiums?

Stop looking backward.

Who the e f f are you to decide what someone should or shouldn't think?

Interleague play has S U C K E D for 28 years, the novelty wore off long ago and I was against it from Day 1.

Same w/the DH.

You say we're "stuck in the past"............I say "If it isn't broke, then why try and fix it" with STUPID GIMMICKS like the DH and Interleague play (I won't even get into Manfred's idiotic rule changes again).

Unlike you I respect your opinion, you need to respect others who "look back" and see a WAY, WAY BETTER brand of baseball.

I like it as is, i understand you prefer it as it was. But for the overall popularity of the game "as is" is better for it. A kid in the stands at dodger stadium will remember seeing Aaron Judge. A kid in Yankee stadium will remember seeing Shohei Ohtani.

They don't care to see the Rockies or the Rays a few extra times a year.

You can't argue that

Gotta tell ya' Adam as a kid I knew who most of the players were on AL teams w/o having them come to Busch Stadium.

Seeing them on The Game of the Week, All-Star games and World Series was all we needed.

But like I said above, I respect those who like this brand of baseball........they may not have seen anything else.

I was lucky to see a much better brand in the 70's-80's-early 90's, trust me it was better.

To each their own. But you are misunderstanding a "better brand of baseball" for your nostalgia. For the average fan which MLB DESPERATELY needs right now, your brand no longer works as far as fan support. I understand your point of view, but that view will keep losing fans. No 18 year old fan cares about a double switch. they care about seeing stars of the game

certainly you see that, if you don't you are just being stubborn. this isn't the 70s as much as you want it to be.

[imyourhuckleberry]

NL owners need to get rid of the DH. The experiment has failed. Attendance is down. TV deal collapsing due to viewership.

I doubt they are smart enough to do it or tough enough to stand up to the unions.

-NL loses the DH
Used to care, now indifferent

-The idiotic, Little League Ghost runner literally disappears
Agreed

-Japan/Korean League players must be subjected to the draft and NOT allowed to be signed as free agents (take that Dodgers), then given free agency after three years
Very much ageeed

-Interleague play is banished
Indifferent

-Pitchers don't have to face three batters before a change and can throw over to first as many times as they want
Very much agreed

What makes baseball great is the strategic element, too much of it has been taken out of the game w/many of the above.

JMO

[rockondlouie]

NL owners need to get rid of the DH. The experiment has failed. Attendance is down. TV deal collapsing due to viewership.

I doubt they are smart enough to do it or tough enough to stand up to the unions.

-NL loses the DH
Used to care, now indifferent

-The idiotic, Little League Ghost runner literally disappears
Agreed

-Japan/Korean League players must be subjected to the draft and NOT allowed to be signed as free agents (take that Dodgers), then given free agency after three years
Very much ageeed

-Interleague play is banished
Indifferent

-Pitchers don't have to face three batters before a change and can throw over to first as many times as they want
Very much agreed

What makes baseball great is the strategic element, too much of it has been taken out of the game w/many of the above.

JMO

[rockondlouie]

NL owners need to get rid of the DH. The experiment has failed. Attendance is down. TV deal collapsing due to viewership.

I doubt they are smart enough to do it or tough enough to stand up to the unions.

-NL loses the DH

-The idiotic, Little League Ghost runner literally disappears

-Japan/Korean League players must be subjected to the draft and NOT allowed to be signed as free agents (take that Dodgers), then given free agency after three years

-Interleague play is banished

-Pitchers don't have to face three batters before a change and can throw over to first as many times as they want

What makes baseball great is the strategic element, too much of it has been taken out of the game w/many of the above.

JMO

Interleague play has existed in baseball for almost thirty years. What’s next, no domed stadiums?

Stop looking backward.

Who the e f f are you to decide what someone should or shouldn't think?

Interleague play has S U C K E D for 28 years, the novelty wore off long ago and I was against it from Day 1.

Same w/the DH.

You say we're "stuck in the past"............I say "If it isn't broke, then why try and fix it" with STUPID GIMMICKS like the DH and Interleague play (I won't even get into Manfred's idiotic rule changes again).

Unlike you I respect your opinion, you need to respect others who "look back" and see a WAY, WAY BETTER brand of baseball.

I like it as is, i understand you prefer it as it was. But for the overall popularity of the game "as is" is better for it. A kid in the stands at dodger stadium will remember seeing Aaron Judge. A kid in Yankee stadium will remember seeing Shohei Ohtani.

They don't care to see the Rockies or the Rays a few extra times a year.

You can't argue that

Gotta tell ya' Adam as a kid I knew who most of the players were on AL teams w/o having them come to Busch Stadium.

Seeing them on The Game of the Week, All-Star games and World Series was all we needed.

But like I said above, I respect those who like this brand of baseball........they may not have seen anything else.

I was lucky to see a much better brand in the 70's-80's-early 90's, trust me it was better.

To each their own. But you are misunderstanding a "better brand of baseball" for your nostalgia. For the average fan which MLB DESPERATELY needs right now, your brand no longer works as far as fan support. I understand your point of view, but that view will keep losing fans. No 18 year old fan cares about a double switch. they care about seeing stars of the game

certainly you see that, if you don't you are just being stubborn. this isn't the 70s as much as you want it to be.

Not "misunderstanding" anything as I understand the Marketing and Demographics aspects perfectly.

And how do you know "my brand" (funny) doesn't work for them when they've NEVER SEEN "my brand" of baseball?

Not even close to being "stubborn" either, simply stated MY OPINION...sorry it doesn't jive w/yours.

[Adam2]

NL owners need to get rid of the DH. The experiment has failed. Attendance is down. TV deal collapsing due to viewership.

I doubt they are smart enough to do it or tough enough to stand up to the unions.

-NL loses the DH

-The idiotic, Little League Ghost runner literally disappears

-Japan/Korean League players must be subjected to the draft and NOT allowed to be signed as free agents (take that Dodgers), then given free agency after three years

-Interleague play is banished

-Pitchers don't have to face three batters before a change and can throw over to first as many times as they want

What makes baseball great is the strategic element, too much of it has been taken out of the game w/many of the above.

JMO

Interleague play has existed in baseball for almost thirty years. What’s next, no domed stadiums?

Stop looking backward.

Who the e f f are you to decide what someone should or shouldn't think?

Interleague play has S U C K E D for 28 years, the novelty wore off long ago and I was against it from Day 1.

Same w/the DH.

You say we're "stuck in the past"............I say "If it isn't broke, then why try and fix it" with STUPID GIMMICKS like the DH and Interleague play (I won't even get into Manfred's idiotic rule changes again).

Unlike you I respect your opinion, you need to respect others who "look back" and see a WAY, WAY BETTER brand of baseball.

I like it as is, i understand you prefer it as it was. But for the overall popularity of the game "as is" is better for it. A kid in the stands at dodger stadium will remember seeing Aaron Judge. A kid in Yankee stadium will remember seeing Shohei Ohtani.

They don't care to see the Rockies or the Rays a few extra times a year.

You can't argue that

Gotta tell ya' Adam as a kid I knew who most of the players were on AL teams w/o having them come to Busch Stadium.

Seeing them on The Game of the Week, All-Star games and World Series was all we needed.

But like I said above, I respect those who like this brand of baseball........they may not have seen anything else.

I was lucky to see a much better brand in the 70's-80's-early 90's, trust me it was better.

To each their own. But you are misunderstanding a "better brand of baseball" for your nostalgia. For the average fan which MLB DESPERATELY needs right now, your brand no longer works as far as fan support. I understand your point of view, but that view will keep losing fans. No 18 year old fan cares about a double switch. they care about seeing stars of the game

certainly you see that, if you don't you are just being stubborn. this isn't the 70s as much as you want it to be.

Not "misunderstanding" anything as I understand the Marketing and Demographics aspects perfectly.

And how do you know "my brand" (funny) doesn't work for them when they've NEVER SEEN "my brand" of baseball?

Not even close to being "stubborn" either, simply stated MY OPINION...sorry it doesn't jive w/yours.

I know because statistics show younger people are gravitating to other sports. not rocket science

[ScotchMIrish]

NL owners need to get rid of the DH. The experiment has failed. Attendance is down. TV deal collapsing due to viewership.

I doubt they are smart enough to do it or tough enough to stand up to the unions.

-NL loses the DH

-The idiotic, Little League Ghost runner literally disappears

-Japan/Korean League players must be subjected to the draft and NOT allowed to be signed as free agents (take that Dodgers), then given free agency after three years

-Interleague play is banished

-Pitchers don't have to face three batters before a change and can throw over to first as many times as they want

What makes baseball great is the strategic element, too much of it has been taken out of the game w/many of the above.

JMO

I agree. You get it. My favorite reply is pitchers don't want to bat. Get the big boy britches on and bat.

I'm been against the DH since I was a kid when it was enacted for the AL so I've been "stuck in the past" since it's inception.

IMO it removes too much of what makes baseball great and that's Managerial strategizing.

I liked seeing pitchers bat..........can they get the bunt down and move the runner over?.....or would they fake a bunt and tomahawk a ball?.............or even swing away and OMGosh he got a hit!

Not boring to me at all, I liked managing along trying to figure out what the field manager was going to do.

Exactly. And after a couple plate appearances the pitcher is usually replaced with a pinch hitter. Sometimes a double switch. Manager has to use his brain. Much more entertaining brand of baseball.

Charley Finley had a lot of goofy ideas. Orange baseball. Orange bases. Designated runner. Designated hitter.

BINGO

-How long does the Manager go w/his starter before PHing?

-Who does he match up as his PH'er vs who the other Manager may have on the mound or in his pen'?

It was so much fun "thinking" along w/the Manager!

Now they just sit back and wait for a three run homer.

And Charlie O, what a character.........paid players to grow mustaches too!

Finley lost the A's when his wife sued and refused to take half the team as payment. He had to sell the team to settle the divorce. Best thing that happened to baseball.

[desertrat23]

NL owners need to get rid of the DH. The experiment has failed. Attendance is down. TV deal collapsing due to viewership.

I doubt they are smart enough to do it or tough enough to stand up to the unions.

-NL loses the DH

-The idiotic, Little League Ghost runner literally disappears

-Japan/Korean League players must be subjected to the draft and NOT allowed to be signed as free agents (take that Dodgers), then given free agency after three years

-Interleague play is banished

-Pitchers don't have to face three batters before a change and can throw over to first as many times as they want

What makes baseball great is the strategic element, too much of it has been taken out of the game w/many of the above.

JMO

Interleague play has existed in baseball for almost thirty years. What’s next, no domed stadiums?

Stop looking backward.

Who the e f f are you to decide what someone should or shouldn't think?

Interleague play has S U C K E D for 28 years, the novelty wore off long ago and I was against it from Day 1.

Same w/the DH.

You say we're "stuck in the past"............I say "If it isn't broke, then why try and fix it" with STUPID GIMMICKS like the DH and Interleague play (I won't even get into Manfred's idiotic rule changes again).

Unlike you I respect your opinion, you need to respect others who "look back" and see a WAY, WAY BETTER brand of baseball.

I like it as is, i understand you prefer it as it was. But for the overall popularity of the game "as is" is better for it. A kid in the stands at dodger stadium will remember seeing Aaron Judge. A kid in Yankee stadium will remember seeing Shohei Ohtani.

They don't care to see the Rockies or the Rays a few extra times a year.

You can't argue that

Gotta tell ya' Adam as a kid I knew who most of the players were on AL teams w/o having them come to Busch Stadium.

Seeing them on The Game of the Week, All-Star games and World Series was all we needed.

But like I said above, I respect those who like this brand of baseball........they may not have seen anything else.

I was lucky to see a much better brand in the 70's-80's-early 90's, trust me it was better.

To each their own. But you are misunderstanding a "better brand of baseball" for your nostalgia. For the average fan which MLB DESPERATELY needs right now, your brand no longer works as far as fan support. I understand your point of view, but that view will keep losing fans. No 18 year old fan cares about a double switch. they care about seeing stars of the game

certainly you see that, if you don't you are just being stubborn. this isn't the 70s as much as you want it to be.

EXACTLY. I really don't see what's so hard about this. I'm in my fifth decade of watching baseball. I've probably got three more at best. Many here have been watching for six/seven decades and have even less left. My kids have EIGHT DECADES of baseball left -- eight decades to be customers that spend money and get their kids interested in the game. Who are reasonable business people going to care most about?

Why on Earth would anyone cater to people older than me? Why would they cater to ME, other than to get me to take my kids? How many posts on this board are "I don't go to games because I don't like to go downtown/I don't like to spend money/I don't like to download an app and give a free email because reasons?" All folks do is spend half their time complaining about MLB and how they don't spend money -- why SHOULD they cater to you? You've said you're not their customer!!!!

If you truly love baseball, you WANT kids engaged. You want to find out what makes them tick, what would get them to drag their parents to the games. You wouldn't (bleep) on the Savannah Bananas, who I guarantee will draw more to Busch this year than any Cardinals game. You wouldn't constantly navel-gaze about how things used to be and only think of ways MLB can cater to YOU.

[MIDMOBIRDTWO]

They don't need another work stoppage, they would put a nail in the corpse that way. Some form of revenue sharing needs to be in place.

I also liked the idea put forth of including Asian players in the draft and making them free agents after three years. I am not in favor of interleague play as some are, prefer some more divisional play than currently. Don't know how this is going to sake out, but a work stoppage would not work to the advantage of anyone.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

Scotch Irish, I'm right there with you. And I know you are a good baseball man, just like me. I don't know if the terrific posters ala RBIrules will remember many of my posts, but I know that you and I both have lamented that the Universal DH has almost ruined the game for us. And yes, I, like you don't watch or listen to the product nearly as much any more. We're not alone. We're just part of the silent majority. As far as all of the arguments in favor for instituting the Universal DH, I can refute every single one. But we get shouted down by those that support it.
Just a short list of folks that loved NL (no DH) baseball: Mark McGwyre, TLR, Adam Wainwright, Joe Madden, hell, even Dusty Baker. Believe me, Scotch, we're not alone. And if you ever see me at a Redbirds game, I'll be the bad (donkey), 66 year old cranky old man in the replica Cardinals Jersey that I've had the local seamstress alter with a DH in a circle with a diagonal line through it where the number should go. And what does it say for a name? NOLIKEY, IHATEIT, HOWCUM, DINTASKME, WHY, BADIDEA, or RILES. That's all I've had made thus far. Respect y'all that have divergent opinions from Scotch and myself, but as my dad used to say to me, "You're right, the world is wrong"
Sorry for the long reply

You and Scotch are entitled to your opinions. I disagree but won't try to beat you into my opinion. It isn't if I like the DH or not it is "do I think it is the problem facing the future of baseball". I don't.

I think the fact over half the teams watch in envy as a few financial powerhouses have a good chance every year and they don't. And their fans find it boring when they know they suck hind teat every year. Note the large market teams are still bringing in fans. Winning does that. So the DH hasn't seemed to hurt them any.

I'ts been laid out in this thread that somehow there needs to be parity of the teams. How is difficult to imagine. If you owned the Dodgers would you want to share TV revenue? Heck you got LA not Tampa.

And some here seem to think the have nots could spend if they wanted to but I disagree with them also. Miami doesn't have half the revenues LAD do. They would be losing money hand over fist if they tried to match their spending. Why would we expect them to lose money? Some here seem to think owners owe them spending their own cash.

IMO the answer long term would be:

Salary cap. Yup players won't like this.
Salary floor. Yup small market teams won't like this.
Revenue sharing. Large market teams won't like this.

That's a lot of different groups to get to sign up. In fact which group isn't (upset)? Which is why I predicted there will be a work stoppage and there will be pain and they won't get it all done it will be half measures and problems again next time if comes due.

[cardstatman]

The NL DH was inevitable from a player's union point-of-view.

The funny thing in today's game is that a starting pitcher would bat only 2 times since they last only 5 or 6 innings and rarely go through the other team's lineup even 3 full times before getting removed. After that it was a pinch hitter, which is basically a DH who is allowed to bat only once.

Even before the DH, in the late innings, the pitcher never batted unless it was a blowout. However, there was strategy which is now lost forever. Times change. We will all be fine.

In today's game, the manager could take a 2-hour nap during the game and no one might notice as long as the pitching coach changed the pitcher for him. Most often the starting 9 just finish the entire game. If there are a lot of substitutions, it probably means it was a blowout and the manager wanted to rest his older veteran players or give his bench guys a chance to get an at bat. There are only 4 players available on the bench anyway because we now have 13-man pitching staffs. Even with 13 pitchers the LOOGY has died because a LOOGY doesn't record enough outs per week and bullpens get burned out even with few long extra inning games.

For me:
* Preferred the DH but completely understand how it badly hurt the NL in interleague play. The AL wasn't going back and colleges went to DH so the NL had to change. Also, the great hitters who can't field can last a few more years as DH.
* I truly hate the Manfred guy on 2B to start all extra innings but understand that with only 13 pitchers throwing 95-100mph, we can't have extra inning games last too long. I'd just rather see this accomplished this in other ways.
* I truly love the 3-batter minimum rule since I hated the LOOGY and I hated multiple pitching changes in one inning.
* I'd like to see the softball red first base bag so the runners can stay in foul territory. If you touch the white bag instead, then you can't overrun 1B.

[1983cougar]

I'm an old fogey that can remember when pitchers could hit and in youth baseball the pitchers were sometimes the best hitter on the team. I am not a fan of the dh but it's not going anywhere and it's not the problem.
Like a lot of you have said the problem is how to bridge the gap between the haves and the have nots. A lot of the owners couldn't care less if they win (or even compete) they just look at the bottom line financially. A lot of us remember the Cardinals after gussie died. It took a while for them to be the Cardinals we were used to seeing. I have been a baseball fan all my life but sometimes the game today is hard to watch. I agree that there will probably be a work stoppage but I seriously doubt they will fix all the problems but maybe they can fix some of them.

[illiniriles]

Rock, good to see you post some replies. You are one of the good baseball men on this board. As far as the courtesy runner on 2nd in extras, the reason why I'm okay with it is the attrition of the pen that extra long extra inning games caused. A bullpen could be burned out for a week That's why TLR hated extra innings so much. So I kinda get it. What I believe really needs to be implemented is the automated strike zone. And not just a one or 2 challenge system. It's too important not to to be used. Call a strike a strike and a ball a ball.
One more thing, a few replies up somebody pointed out that from the time kids first started being the best pitchers on their teams, they are often also the best hitters on their teams. EXACTLY RIGHT! Pitchers CAN hit, their teams just chose not to make them work on it. Higher levels tended to only view a pitchers arm as a valuable commodity. I don't subscribe to this line of thinking. Plenty of pitchers can help win games in lots of different ways. And when there was no DH, they could prove it.