Solid response by Leafs

[thegibby.]

Some Leaf players already look gone. A shame. They have some really talented players that are missing something. Drive, desire, fortitude, win at all cost attitude? Something missing

A Bennett and/or Marchand.



PS Even the one Leafs goal tonight was weak.

[skilles]

Berube is gonna want serious personnel changes this off-season. He needs playoff players. Mathews and Marner are the biggest question marks.

Changes/tweaks? Sure. Wholesale changes to a team that took the defending champs to game 7 is probably a big mistake.

[thegibby.]

Berube is gonna want serious personnel changes this off-season. He needs playoff players. Mathews and Marner are the biggest question marks.

Changes/tweaks? Sure. Wholesale changes to a team that took the defending champs to game 7 is probably a big mistake.

the issue is the way they lost games five and seven (at home). Florida had 21 shot attempts before Toronto got one (in a game seven).

[smegma]

Berube is gonna want serious personnel changes this off-season. He needs playoff players. Mathews and Marner are the biggest question marks.

Changes/tweaks? Sure. Wholesale changes to a team that took the defending champs to game 7 is probably a big mistake.

the issue is the way they lost games five and seven (at home). Florida had 21 shot attempts before Toronto got one (in a game seven).

That's not true they tied up 7-7 shots in the 1st period of game 7.

[thegibby.]

Berube is gonna want serious personnel changes this off-season. He needs playoff players. Mathews and Marner are the biggest question marks.

Changes/tweaks? Sure. Wholesale changes to a team that took the defending champs to game 7 is probably a big mistake.

the issue is the way they lost games five and seven (at home). Florida had 21 shot attempts before Toronto got one (in a game seven).

That's not true they tied up 7-7 shots in the 1st period of game 7.

shot attempts; not shot on goal.

[skilles]

Berube is gonna want serious personnel changes this off-season. He needs playoff players. Mathews and Marner are the biggest question marks.

Changes/tweaks? Sure. Wholesale changes to a team that took the defending champs to game 7 is probably a big mistake.

the issue is the way they lost games five and seven (at home). Florida had 21 shot attempts before Toronto got one (in a game seven).

I mean game 7 with the champs..... you make adjustments and try again

[bluetunehead]

Well it seems like an inevitability that Marner is gone, which opens up a good chunk of cap space. Obviously he’s a huge part of their offense. But they might be better off improving elsewhere. They need an identity other than playoff disappointments in the worst way.

[DawgDad]

Toronto got torched at even strength, all their big stars. NO penalties were called in that game except the 1st period too many men on the ice against the Leafs. None. The Leafs aren't constructed for that style of game, their big stars could not adjust. Knies was minus-3. Marner, Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, they all disappeared. That team is paying FAR too much money to the wrong players.

[TheHighHat]

Let's review these 2 teams trade acquisitions at or near the TDL.

Florida traded two 1st rounders and Spencer Knight for:
Seth Jones & Brad Marchand

The often maligned Jones has been a minute munching, play in all situations stud 1RHD.
Marchand has transformed the Panthers 3rd line into an offensive threat.
Florida's 3rd line has produced more points than their top 2 lines.

Zito corrected the mistake he made in letting Montour walk but had to give up a 1st round pick and presumably his future #1 goalie. The Panthers don't have any 1st round picks for the next 3 years and the cupboard is near bare of prospects.
Zito has the ring so all is forgiven.


Toronto traded two 1st rounders, Fraser Minten & Nikita Grebenkin for:
Brandon Carlo & Scott Laughton

Carlo is big and a right shot. That's about it. No offense and is really a 3rd pair d-man.
Laughton was supposed to be their 3rd line center but produced like a 4th line scrub.

Fortunately for Brad Treliving all of the off season noise will be directed at Shanahan and Marner.
Treliving also has the cushion of the Leafs current situation being perceived as strictly a Dubas creation.
He should have traded Marner last summer though.

Similar to the Panthers, the Leafs have zero 1st round picks for the next 3 years and not much in prospects so the only way they improve their team is thru free agency. Good luck with that.

Don Sweeney may have saved his job with the return he received for Carlo.

[TBone]

Let's review these 2 teams trade acquisitions at or near the TDL.

Florida traded two 1st rounders and Spencer Knight for:
Seth Jones & Brad Marchand

The often maligned Jones has been a minute munching, play in all situations stud 1RHD.
Marchand has transformed the Panthers 3rd line into an offensive threat.
Florida's 3rd line has produced more points than their top 2 lines.

Zito corrected the mistake h

Not trying to correct you, but with all the talk of the scarcity of RHD I looked both trades up.

Jones was for a 1st and the goalie, but they also received a Chicago 4th rounder. Marchand was straight up for a 2nd.

Here's a question... Seth Jones has been a heavy minus +/- player for a long time now. Understandable on Chicago, but he was was tracking for a minus 20 over a full season with Florida on a team where every other defenseman was a plus with most +10 to +30.

What theory to those of you familiar with him accounts for this? Is there some Justin Faulk in his game?

[Pierre McGuire]

Berube is gonna want serious personnel changes this off-season. He needs playoff players. Mathews and Marner are the biggest question marks.

Changes/tweaks? Sure. Wholesale changes to a team that took the defending champs to game 7 is probably a big mistake.

the issue is the way they lost games five and seven (at home). Florida had 21 shot attempts before Toronto got one (in a game seven).

I mean game 7 with the champs..... you make adjustments and try again

Pretty sure this was the last attempt with that core. No way they can sell that to the fanbase again. They’ve tried numerous times and have failed and now they have contract decisions to make. They have to move on from some of the core.

[TheHighHat]

Let's review these 2 teams trade acquisitions at or near the TDL.

Florida traded two 1st rounders and Spencer Knight for:
Seth Jones & Brad Marchand

The often maligned Jones has been a minute munching, play in all situations stud 1RHD.
Marchand has transformed the Panthers 3rd line into an offensive threat.
Florida's 3rd line has produced more points than their top 2 lines.

Zito corrected the mistake h

Not trying to correct you, but with all the talk of the scarcity of RHD I looked both trades up.

Jones was for a 1st and the goalie, but they also received a Chicago 4th rounder. Marchand was straight up for a 2nd.

Here's a question... Seth Jones has been a heavy minus +/- player for a long time now. Understandable on Chicago, but he was was tracking for a minus 20 over a full season with Florida on a team where every other defenseman was a plus with most +10 to +30.

What theory to those of you familiar with him accounts for this? Is there some Justin Faulk in his game?

Check out the conditions in that Marchand trade.
Basically once Marchand plays another game that 2nd rounder becomes a 1st

Re: Jones
He seems to play to the ability of his teammates;
If he’s on a good team, he’s a good player. He had some good years with Werenski.
If he’s on a bad team, he looks disinterested and unable to make his partners better.

Do I think he’s a true #1? Not really even though Maurice is treating him like one.
Having Forsling & Ekblad on another pair helps take the pressure off.
Keep in mind that Tkachuk and Ekblad (1 game) were not in the lineup in the regular season when Jones joined the Panthers. They also were without Barkov and a few other key players for a handful of games.
Hence the Panthers faded down the stretch.

The main point of my post was to display the huge disparity of the results of the two teams trades since they both gave up similar assets.
So far it’s been a homerun for Zito.
Treliving's ROI has to be considered a strikeout.

[netboy65]

They are about to have a summer unlike any they have had in recent memory.

There is going to be a major shakeup. They have given that core 4 multiple shots to do something and have gotten nothing out of them when it counts.

I also kind of understand what Leafs fans are going through watching the Blues [shirt] the bed on so many game 7s as well. Man it's depressing.

Well if you are Treliving the off season has begun and there's no way you can bring the exact same team back. If you aren't going to re-sign Marner, or he has no desire to, you have to get something for him. Won't be much as he doesn't have a lot of bargaining power, but just a draft pick at least saves some face.

Tavares unless he is willing to take a major pay cut is done there, and they have to upgrade the goaltending.

Good luck.

That was pathetic, I can’t see how anybody gives big money to Marner, or Tavares. You can’t win with those guys in the playoffs.

And big question about Matthews. He had one goal I think in the series.

Clearly all of them together is not good. However that’s too broad a statement for each guy individually.

[Frank Underwood]

I’m not going to pile on, but for a 7 game series, a casual observer probably wouldn’t even know that Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares played. Same could be said of Matthew Tkachuk for the Panthers, though guessing the injury might still be a factor. Seems clear Marner will be gone (brutal asset management by the Laffs) and Tavares is gone unless he’s willing to sign a cheap deal.

Personally, I love seeing them get eliminated because they have one of the most arrogant and annoying fan bases in all of sports. But I’m even feeling a little sorry for them today. Even Biz, who can be an absolute clown, was humbled by the reality of it all last night. Florida spanked them hard and maybe that helps fans deal with the reality of what is going to happen this summer. Of course if they don’t fire ShanaClown today, that franchise deserves more pain again next season.

Hmmmm, I guess I DID pile on!

[skilles]

Berube is gonna want serious personnel changes this off-season. He needs playoff players. Mathews and Marner are the biggest question marks.

Changes/tweaks? Sure. Wholesale changes to a team that took the defending champs to game 7 is probably a big mistake.

the issue is the way they lost games five and seven (at home). Florida had 21 shot attempts before Toronto got one (in a game seven).

I mean game 7 with the champs..... you make adjustments and try again

Pretty sure this was the last attempt with that core. No way they can sell that to the fanbase again. They’ve tried numerous times and have failed and now they have contract decisions to make. They have to move on from some of the core.

One thing Ive learned over the years is "they" will always have something to say and "they" don't have a clue what it takes to go from top 10% to top 5% and ultimately to the top 1%/the very best.

At the end of the day they needed to win 4 games and they won 3 against the defending champs and I'm not saying don't make adjustments but overreacting is not the solution.

I personally think they have been over rated going in so I definitely think they should be trying to get better but man that path gets extremely narrow when you are that close and you can't force it. The discipline to stay the course can be a super power.

Wolves should not let sheep tell them how to hunt.

[TheJackBurton]

I’m not going to pile on, but for a 7 game series, a casual observer probably wouldn’t even know that Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares played. Same could be said of Matthew Tkachuk for the Panthers, though guessing the injury might still be a factor. Seems clear Marner will be gone (brutal asset management by the Laffs) and Tavares is gone unless he’s willing to sign a cheap deal.

Personally, I love seeing them get eliminated because they have one of the most arrogant and annoying fan bases in all of sports. But I’m even feeling a little sorry for them today. Even Biz, who can be an absolute clown, was humbled by the reality of it all last night. Florida spanked them hard and maybe that helps fans deal with the reality of what is going to happen this summer. Of course if they don’t fire ShanaClown today, that franchise deserves more pain again next season.

Hmmmm, I guess I DID pile on!

One of the fans major complaints is that Marner nixed a trade to Carolina for Rantanen.

Now how much truth there is to that I don't know, but that has been another major issue. They look at what Rantanen has done compared to what Marner did this playoffs, and the odds he'll leave via UFA, and well that has led to a lot more hate. Kind of the level the Isle fans had for Tavares when he essentially did the same thing.

If you give a player the power to say no to a trade, can't be mad at him when he uses it.