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Re: Why would you have a pitcher throw 109 pitches with a 10 run lead?
Posted: 11 May 2025 08:30 am
by An Old Friend
illiniriles wrote: ↑11 May 2025 03:23 am
Hi Old Friend. You ask an important question. Tommy John surgery is the procedure to repair a partially or completely torn Ulnar Collateral Ligament on the anatomical medial (inside) position of the elbow if you are laying on your back with your palm facing up. A tendon is harvested from another area of your body and run in the same direction as the damaged ligament and hopefully secured in place permanently into holes drilled into the bones and with bone anchors. The UCL undergoes tremendous stress and strain from pitching. Not just due to the higher velocity that most pitchers are trying to attain, but even more so from the torque on the elbow from higher spin rates. I believe the procedure was developed by world famous orthopedic surgeon Dr James Andrews, and first performed on starting pitcher Tommy John. Hence the name for the procedure.
Pretty sure that's accurate.
Yeah, I know what Tommy John surgery is. I've had it.
I was asking about the phrasing with the "Sx". I just looked it up, had no idea that "Sx" was an abbreviation for surgery... i.e. the part I was ignorant on.
I've never seen that before.
Preventative TJ should never be a thing. No player should have an elbow reconstruction done on a healthy elbow.
Re: Why would you have a pitcher throw 109 pitches with a 10 run lead?
Posted: 11 May 2025 08:33 am
by scoutyjones2
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 12:12 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑10 May 2025 12:06 pm
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 11:58 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑10 May 2025 09:17 am
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:36 am
Goldfan wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:29 am
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:14 am
Goldfan wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:03 am
When did it become a “thing” to worry or complain about a vet ML pitcher throwing 100 pitches?? Who came up with the 100 #? Are all pitchers the same??
The arbitrary 100 pitch limit is one of the dumbest measures that baseball has allowed to govern and dictate their behaviors.
SP are in the 95 percentile or better in terms of size for all males. And are considerably larger than 50 years ago. Have the most advanced nutrition and training known to man…..but for some reason cant throw close to the numbers of pitches as past generations??
Drives me crazy. Baseball got all out of whack. They stopped training to be able to do it… and seemingly forgot that part of the beauty of baseball has always been the starting pitcher. Historically they’ve been the hero of the story and people paid and tuned in to see great pitching matchups.
Now you get Jacob deGrom throwing 6 shutout innings with 7 strikeouts and pulled after 65 pitches.
LoL...DeGrom isn't a supportive reference. He hasn't started more than 12 games in a season since 2019
Not really the point. You really think there’s too much risk pushing deGrom further when he’s dominating like that?
You chose poorly.
You’re choosing to be wound up about a weird thing.
We’re talking about pitch counts and I referenced one of the top paid pitchers in the game getting lifted after 65 innings. Seems pretty relevant. Sorry you didn’t like the example.
You realize when DeGrom was drafted by the Mutts, he had Tommy John surgery. You chose poorly. He's had 2 Tommy johns moran
Re: Why would you have a pitcher throw 109 pitches with a 10 run lead?
Posted: 11 May 2025 08:38 am
by An Old Friend
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑11 May 2025 08:33 am
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 12:12 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑10 May 2025 12:06 pm
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 11:58 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑10 May 2025 09:17 am
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:36 am
Goldfan wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:29 am
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:14 am
Goldfan wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:03 am
When did it become a “thing” to worry or complain about a vet ML pitcher throwing 100 pitches?? Who came up with the 100 #? Are all pitchers the same??
The arbitrary 100 pitch limit is one of the dumbest measures that baseball has allowed to govern and dictate their behaviors.
SP are in the 95 percentile or better in terms of size for all males. And are considerably larger than 50 years ago. Have the most advanced nutrition and training known to man…..but for some reason cant throw close to the numbers of pitches as past generations??
Drives me crazy. Baseball got all out of whack. They stopped training to be able to do it… and seemingly forgot that part of the beauty of baseball has always been the starting pitcher. Historically they’ve been the hero of the story and people paid and tuned in to see great pitching matchups.
Now you get Jacob deGrom throwing 6 shutout innings with 7 strikeouts and pulled after 65 pitches.
LoL...DeGrom isn't a supportive reference. He hasn't started more than 12 games in a season since 2019
Not really the point. You really think there’s too much risk pushing deGrom further when he’s dominating like that?
You chose poorly.
You’re choosing to be wound up about a weird thing.
We’re talking about pitch counts and I referenced one of the top paid pitchers in the game getting lifted after 65 innings. Seems pretty relevant. Sorry you didn’t like the example.
You realize when DeGrom was drafted by the Mutts, he had Tommy John surgery. You chose poorly. He's had 2 Tommy johns moran
He threw 90 pitches yesterday, moran.
Re: Why would you have a pitcher throw 109 pitches with a 10 run lead?
Posted: 11 May 2025 08:47 am
by scoutyjones2
An Old Friend wrote: ↑11 May 2025 08:38 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑11 May 2025 08:33 am
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 12:12 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑10 May 2025 12:06 pm
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 11:58 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑10 May 2025 09:17 am
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:36 am
Goldfan wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:29 am
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:14 am
Goldfan wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:03 am
When did it become a “thing” to worry or complain about a vet ML pitcher throwing 100 pitches?? Who came up with the 100 #? Are all pitchers the same??
The arbitrary 100 pitch limit is one of the dumbest measures that baseball has allowed to govern and dictate their behaviors.
SP are in the 95 percentile or better in terms of size for all males. And are considerably larger than 50 years ago. Have the most advanced nutrition and training known to man…..but for some reason cant throw close to the numbers of pitches as past generations??
Drives me crazy. Baseball got all out of whack. They stopped training to be able to do it… and seemingly forgot that part of the beauty of baseball has always been the starting pitcher. Historically they’ve been the hero of the story and people paid and tuned in to see great pitching matchups.
Now you get Jacob deGrom throwing 6 shutout innings with 7 strikeouts and pulled after 65 pitches.
LoL...DeGrom isn't a supportive reference. He hasn't started more than 12 games in a season since 2019
Not really the point. You really think there’s too much risk pushing deGrom further when he’s dominating like that?
You chose poorly.
You’re choosing to be wound up about a weird thing.
We’re talking about pitch counts and I referenced one of the top paid pitchers in the game getting lifted after 65 innings. Seems pretty relevant. Sorry you didn’t like the example.
You realize when DeGrom was drafted by the Mutts, he had Tommy John surgery. You chose poorly. He's had 2 Tommy johns moran
He threw 90 pitches yesterday, moran.
Context of the discussion. Pitch counts and the belief of injuries. De From gas been riddled with injuries. When drafted...Tommy John, 2016 elbow surgery, forearm issues put him on the 60 day DL in 2021, 2022 stress fracture in scapula, 2023 another Tommy John after signing a 5 year contract with the Rangers for $185...
You chose poorly...littered with injuries, team would be stupid not to nurse him back moran
Re: Why would you have a pitcher throw 109 pitches with a 10 run lead?
Posted: 11 May 2025 11:32 am
by An Old Friend
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑11 May 2025 08:47 am
An Old Friend wrote: ↑11 May 2025 08:38 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑11 May 2025 08:33 am
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 12:12 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑10 May 2025 12:06 pm
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 11:58 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑10 May 2025 09:17 am
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:36 am
Goldfan wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:29 am
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:14 am
Goldfan wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:03 am
When did it become a “thing” to worry or complain about a vet ML pitcher throwing 100 pitches?? Who came up with the 100 #? Are all pitchers the same??
The arbitrary 100 pitch limit is one of the dumbest measures that baseball has allowed to govern and dictate their behaviors.
SP are in the 95 percentile or better in terms of size for all males. And are considerably larger than 50 years ago. Have the most advanced nutrition and training known to man…..but for some reason cant throw close to the numbers of pitches as past generations??
Drives me crazy. Baseball got all out of whack. They stopped training to be able to do it… and seemingly forgot that part of the beauty of baseball has always been the starting pitcher. Historically they’ve been the hero of the story and people paid and tuned in to see great pitching matchups.
Now you get Jacob deGrom throwing 6 shutout innings with 7 strikeouts and pulled after 65 pitches.
LoL...DeGrom isn't a supportive reference. He hasn't started more than 12 games in a season since 2019
Not really the point. You really think there’s too much risk pushing deGrom further when he’s dominating like that?
You chose poorly.
You’re choosing to be wound up about a weird thing.
We’re talking about pitch counts and I referenced one of the top paid pitchers in the game getting lifted after 65 innings. Seems pretty relevant. Sorry you didn’t like the example.
You realize when DeGrom was drafted by the Mutts, he had Tommy John surgery. You chose poorly. He's had 2 Tommy johns moran
He threw 90 pitches yesterday, moran.
Context of the discussion. Pitch counts and the belief of injuries. De From gas been riddled with injuries. When drafted...Tommy John, 2016 elbow surgery, forearm issues put him on the 60 day DL in 2021, 2022 stress fracture in scapula, 2023 another Tommy John after signing a 5 year contract with the Rangers for $185...
You chose poorly...littered with injuries, team would be stupid not to nurse him back moran
I don’t know why you continue to miss or sidestep the point, but you do you.
I fundamentally disagree with lifting a pitcher that is performing well just due to an arbitrary pitch count limit. You apparently don’t.
I like seeing starting pitchers go deep into games. I like seeing top of the rotation duels.
I find it curious that you’re arguing against all that. Who likes parades of relievers and bullpen games?!
Re: Why would you have a pitcher throw 109 pitches with a 10 run lead?
Posted: 11 May 2025 11:45 am
by ecleme22
An Old Friend wrote: ↑11 May 2025 11:32 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑11 May 2025 08:47 am
An Old Friend wrote: ↑11 May 2025 08:38 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑11 May 2025 08:33 am
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 12:12 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑10 May 2025 12:06 pm
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 11:58 am
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑10 May 2025 09:17 am
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:36 am
Goldfan wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:29 am
An Old Friend wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:14 am
Goldfan wrote: ↑10 May 2025 08:03 am
When did it become a “thing” to worry or complain about a vet ML pitcher throwing 100 pitches?? Who came up with the 100 #? Are all pitchers the same??
The arbitrary 100 pitch limit is one of the dumbest measures that baseball has allowed to govern and dictate their behaviors.
SP are in the 95 percentile or better in terms of size for all males. And are considerably larger than 50 years ago. Have the most advanced nutrition and training known to man…..but for some reason cant throw close to the numbers of pitches as past generations??
Drives me crazy. Baseball got all out of whack. They stopped training to be able to do it… and seemingly forgot that part of the beauty of baseball has always been the starting pitcher. Historically they’ve been the hero of the story and people paid and tuned in to see great pitching matchups.
Now you get Jacob deGrom throwing 6 shutout innings with 7 strikeouts and pulled after 65 pitches.
LoL...DeGrom isn't a supportive reference. He hasn't started more than 12 games in a season since 2019
Not really the point. You really think there’s too much risk pushing deGrom further when he’s dominating like that?
You chose poorly.
You’re choosing to be wound up about a weird thing.
We’re talking about pitch counts and I referenced one of the top paid pitchers in the game getting lifted after 65 innings. Seems pretty relevant. Sorry you didn’t like the example.
You realize when DeGrom was drafted by the Mutts, he had Tommy John surgery. You chose poorly. He's had 2 Tommy johns moran
He threw 90 pitches yesterday, moran.
Context of the discussion. Pitch counts and the belief of injuries. De From gas been riddled with injuries. When drafted...Tommy John, 2016 elbow surgery, forearm issues put him on the 60 day DL in 2021, 2022 stress fracture in scapula, 2023 another Tommy John after signing a 5 year contract with the Rangers for $185...
You chose poorly...littered with injuries, team would be stupid not to nurse him back moran
I don’t know why you continue to miss or sidestep the point, but you do you.
I fundamentally disagree with lifting a pitcher that is performing well just due to an arbitrary pitch count limit. You apparently don’t.
I like seeing starting pitchers go deep into games. I like seeing top of the rotation duels.
I find it curious that you’re arguing against all that. Who likes parades of relievers and bullpen games?!
Not trying to stir the pot, but pitch count limits are based on data, right?
Side note: good move to let Fedde finish. And, 109 pitches is not an insane amount.
Re: Why would you have a pitcher throw 109 pitches with a 10 run lead?
Posted: 11 May 2025 11:56 am
by An Old Friend
ecleme22 wrote: ↑11 May 2025 11:45 am
Not trying to stir the pot, but pitch count limits are based on data, right?
I haven’t seen it. 100 just seemed to become this arbitrary endpoint that the sport gradually gravitated to.
Re: Why would you have a pitcher throw 109 pitches with a 10 run lead?
Posted: 11 May 2025 12:14 pm
by scoutyjones2
Re: Why would you have a pitcher throw 109 pitches with a 10 run lead?
Posted: 11 May 2025 12:57 pm
by 12xu
Kolek of San Diego threw a CG shutout with 104 pitches yesterday in the Padres 21-0 thrashing of the Rockies.
Re: Why would you have a pitcher throw 109 pitches with a 10 run lead?
Posted: 11 May 2025 13:11 pm
by ecleme22
An Old Friend wrote: ↑11 May 2025 11:56 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑11 May 2025 11:45 am
Not trying to stir the pot, but pitch count limits are based on data, right?
I haven’t seen it. 100 just seemed to become this arbitrary endpoint that the sport gradually gravitated to.
I hear ya.
Re: Why would you have a pitcher throw 109 pitches with a 10 run lead?
Posted: 11 May 2025 13:58 pm
by An Old Friend
So after all that bluster from you, you post a link that directly aligns with my position.
Irony knows no bounds.