Cards sign Phil Maton

[Whatashame]

It doesn’t suggest that at all. That may happen but this signing doesn’t suggest that. It suggests that the Cardinals weren’t happy with the late innings bullpen. They signed Nick Martinez thinking he might claim that role but he’s been shaky at best. Trading a Fedde or Matz just opens up a spot for McGreevy.

The only bullpen arm worth much is Helsley and since he hasn’t already been moved, I don’t see him being moved until close to the trade deadline, if at all. All of the bullpen roles are the same as last year and now Maton just takes the spot that Kittredge had.

The plan was to move more salary but Gray and Contreras declined to be moved. Arenado nixed his trade to the Astros and now there just isn’t much of a market. What market is there for Mikolas. Maybe there’s a small market for Matz but not a huge one. The only real question is Helsley. I don’t know why he hasn’t been moved unless the Cardinals haven’t been offered enough or maybe there’s Cardinals really plan on keeping him. Helsley is the one question mark.

[cardstatman]

Pointless.

Maton isn't going to make this team a WS contender.

He isn't going to speed up the "refresh/reload" or whatever they call their payroll purge.

And he isn't going to bring back anything significant if traded mid season.

Not necessarily. Luis Garcia fetched LAA four prospects from the Red Sox system, and Maton and Garcia are on pretty even footing from a production standpoint. The Orioles sent Philly their No. 8 prospect (Seth Johnson) along with a high-ceiling prospect (Moises Chace) for half a season of Gregory Soto, who profiles worse than Maton. Those are just a couple of 2024 deadline returns on relievers.

OR... you could see what ACTUAL Phil Maton was worth in a trade in 2024, which was cash considerations or a player to be named later.

I can't find anything that says the Rays got a player in return for him.

Maton was pitching poorly at the time and the Rays traded him as a $6.25M salary dump since they were below .500. It is how the Rays operate.

Why would you be expecting them to receive a return? Relievers currently pitching poorly at the time they are traded usually don't bring a return.

Obviously he will only have value if he pitches well in the first half of 2025. He's making only $2M for STL.

[Melville]

This signing strongly suggests STL is expecting to trade a pitcher before opening day

Had similar inclinations… either a trade or someone is hurt and they haven’t divulged it yet.

I likewise considered the 2nd scenario - and would not be one bit surprised if you are very quickly proven correct.

It's got to be O'Brien. He hasn't pitched in a game since Feb 27 vs Yanks. He has 2ip all spring.

A good possibility.
Still, I lean toward a trade being probable.
I think a starting pitcher (Matz, Mikolas, Fedde) will be moved, thereby opening a spot for McGreevy in the rotation - which in turn eliminates his arm from the BP (and sends Graceffo to Memphis - thereby creating demand for a true reliever like Maton.

[cardstatman]

SP Gray, Fedde, Mikolas, Matz, Pallante, McGreevy
RRP Helsley, Maton, Fernandez, Leahy, Roycroft
LRP Romero, King, Liberatore

They could trade Fedde or Matz or send Pallante down to AAA or just wait for an injury to make room for McGreevy.

What other deserving pitchers would Maton be blocking (even before injuries)?

[wkycards]

SP Gray, Fedde, Mikolas, Matz, Pallante, McGreevy
RRP Helsley, Maton, Fernandez, Leahy, Roycroft
LRP Romero, King, Liberatore

They could trade Fedde or Matz or send Pallante down to AAA or just wait for an injury to make room for McGreevy.

What other deserving pitchers would Maton be blocking (even before injuries)?

Good wording statman. "deserving".
Maton is not blocking anyone.
They gave Anderson, Munoz, Graceffo enough time to see what they had to offer; then got Maton.

[DewittDaman11]

Love the Maton signing. Our pitching should be good, again, like last year. And, if Arenado and Contreras both perform to career norms, our offense will be better than last year, as last year only Contreras performed at that level. So, realistically speaking, we should be a better offensive team this year. Especially, if anyone else at all on the team improves offensively, which really should happen. I'm more excited than most for this season, for that reason. We may not outslug many teams, but, if our offense improves just a bit, we could be a very well rounded team pitching, hitting and defense wise. We're due some good luck. Go Cards!

[cardstatman]

SP Gray, Fedde, Mikolas, Matz, Pallante, McGreevy
RRP Helsley, Maton, Fernandez, Leahy, Roycroft
LRP Romero, King, Liberatore

They could trade Fedde or Matz or send Pallante down to AAA or just wait for an injury to make room for McGreevy.

What other deserving pitchers would Maton be blocking (even before injuries)?

Good wording statman. "deserving".
Maton is not blocking anyone.
They gave Anderson, Munoz, Graceffo enough time to see what they had to offer; then got Maton.

It is interesting that Anderson hasn't had much of a look. I wonder if he's fully healthy. He rarely is healthy but he's good. Not an innings eater.

O'Brien has not been seen for a long time either. So the depth was fading already and Goold said they were looking for a reliever.

So they turned to Maton who was no doubt desperate to sign somewhere and probably finally dropped his price tag.

[wkycards]

SP Gray, Fedde, Mikolas, Matz, Pallante, McGreevy
RRP Helsley, Maton, Fernandez, Leahy, Roycroft
LRP Romero, King, Liberatore

They could trade Fedde or Matz or send Pallante down to AAA or just wait for an injury to make room for McGreevy.

What other deserving pitchers would Maton be blocking (even before injuries)?

Good wording statman. "deserving".
Maton is not blocking anyone.
They gave Anderson, Munoz, Graceffo enough time to see what they had to offer; then got Maton.

It is interesting that Anderson hasn't had much of a look. I wonder if he's fully healthy. He rarely is healthy but he's good. Not an innings eater.

O'Brien has not been seen for a long time either. So the depth was fading already and Goold said they were looking for a reliever.

So they turned to Maton who was no doubt desperate to sign somewhere and probably finally dropped his price tag.

Yeah, I think Anderson and O'Brien are dealing with something.

[Sweet Jones]

A positive if it means they don't stick McGreevy or Graceffo in the ML bullpen and let them continue developing as SPs at Memphis (given they are not in the STL rotation).

^^This^^

But McG deserves a spot in the OD rotation, unfortunately the idiot Mo will send him to Memphis while Mikolas & Matz remain in the SR.

Heard an interesting thing on a podcast when I was on the road this morning… that scouts and data are suggesting the Cardinals should have Liberatore in the rotation and that Pallante hasn’t looked good at all… with bad statcast data.

If they retain any notion that Liberatore could still be a SP at the ML level, they should plan for him getting 20+ starts this year.

Agree 100%. I think he and McGreevy should be in the rotation, Matz in the bullpen...

This was the first that I'd heard any noise about Pallante, and it isn't coming from Cardinals camp. But apparently, velocity has pulled back a couple of ticks and the movement profile is not what it was last year... could be just spring stuff, but it is typically not a good sign when the drops are meaningful. The commentary was that Liberatore could be in the conversation to take Pallante's spot. They also said Liberatore's velo and movement profile were improved.

I don't believe that the Cardinals will do that, just sharing what I heard.

I believe it was the Talking About Birds podcast. They had Nick Pollack from PitcherList.com to talk Cards pitching. Very data driven and was a great listen. They discuss Pallante starting about the 6:00 min mark.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s8OJ8EvGPvg

Again, all of it was very informative.

[An Old Friend]

A positive if it means they don't stick McGreevy or Graceffo in the ML bullpen and let them continue developing as SPs at Memphis (given they are not in the STL rotation).

^^This^^

But McG deserves a spot in the OD rotation, unfortunately the idiot Mo will send him to Memphis while Mikolas & Matz remain in the SR.

Heard an interesting thing on a podcast when I was on the road this morning… that scouts and data are suggesting the Cardinals should have Liberatore in the rotation and that Pallante hasn’t looked good at all… with bad statcast data.

If they retain any notion that Liberatore could still be a SP at the ML level, they should plan for him getting 20+ starts this year.

Agree 100%. I think he and McGreevy should be in the rotation, Matz in the bullpen...

This was the first that I'd heard any noise about Pallante, and it isn't coming from Cardinals camp. But apparently, velocity has pulled back a couple of ticks and the movement profile is not what it was last year... could be just spring stuff, but it is typically not a good sign when the drops are meaningful. The commentary was that Liberatore could be in the conversation to take Pallante's spot. They also said Liberatore's velo and movement profile were improved.

I don't believe that the Cardinals will do that, just sharing what I heard.

I believe it was the Talking About Birds podcast. They had Nick Pollack from PitcherList.com to talk Cards pitching. Very data driven and was a great listen. They discuss Pallante starting about the 6:00 min mark.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s8OJ8EvGPvg

Again, all of it was very informative.

Ah, definitely Nick Pollack! It wasn't this podcast but I'll give it a listen once I get through my fantasy drafts and I have more time.

Pollack was a guest on a fantasy podcast I listened to and he talked about this Pallante stuff. They're warning flags, for sure.

[ecleme22]

A positive if it means they don't stick McGreevy or Graceffo in the ML bullpen and let them continue developing as SPs at Memphis (given they are not in the STL rotation).

^^This^^

But McG deserves a spot in the OD rotation, unfortunately the idiot Mo will send him to Memphis while Mikolas & Matz remain in the SR.

Heard an interesting thing on a podcast when I was on the road this morning… that scouts and data are suggesting the Cardinals should have Liberatore in the rotation and that Pallante hasn’t looked good at all… with bad statcast data.

If they retain any notion that Liberatore could still be a SP at the ML level, they should plan for him getting 20+ starts this year.

Agree 100%. I think he and McGreevy should be in the rotation, Matz in the bullpen...

This was the first that I'd heard any noise about Pallante, and it isn't coming from Cardinals camp. But apparently, velocity has pulled back a couple of ticks and the movement profile is not what it was last year... could be just spring stuff, but it is typically not a good sign when the drops are meaningful. The commentary was that Liberatore could be in the conversation to take Pallante's spot. They also said Liberatore's velo and movement profile were improved.

I don't believe that the Cardinals will do that, just sharing what I heard.

I would love Libby to UNLEASH in 2025.

[Wattage]

Pointless.

Maton isn't going to make this team a WS contender.

He isn't going to speed up the "refresh/reload" or whatever they call their payroll purge.

And he isn't going to bring back anything significant if traded mid season.

Rookies cant eat all the inning, you dont want to expose some guys whonarent mlb ready. He provides good quality innjngs and he is tradable at the deadline. Not a huge return but there will be a return. He also can be packaged with helsley or arenado to improve a return.

Im not saying this is amazing but theres nothing to be upset about with this signing.

[Red Bird Classic]

Pointless.

Maton isn't going to make this team a WS contender.

He isn't going to speed up the "refresh/reload" or whatever they call their payroll purge.

And he isn't going to bring back anything significant if traded mid season.

Rookies cant eat all the inning, you dont want to expose some guys whonarent mlb ready. He provides good quality innjngs and he is tradable at the deadline. Not a huge return but there will be a return. He also can be packaged with helsley or arenado to improve a return.

Im not saying this is amazing but theres nothing to be upset about with this signing.

I wouldn't pay to much attention to Marmol. He's just spouting lines fed to him by Mozelack.

As for as eating innings. If you're worried about hurting rookie arms, you could pick up players off wavers to eat those innings. (They'd happily be used to pick up major-league pay checks.)

[ecleme22]

Pointless.

Maton isn't going to make this team a WS contender.

He isn't going to speed up the "refresh/reload" or whatever they call their payroll purge.

And he isn't going to bring back anything significant if traded mid season.

Rookies cant eat all the inning, you dont want to expose some guys whonarent mlb ready. He provides good quality innjngs and he is tradable at the deadline. Not a huge return but there will be a return. He also can be packaged with helsley or arenado to improve a return.

Im not saying this is amazing but theres nothing to be upset about with this signing.

I wouldn't pay to much attention to Marmol. He's just spouting lines fed to him by Mozelack.

As for as eating innings. If you're worried about hurting rookie arms, you could pick up players off wavers to eat those innings. (They'd happily be used to pick up major-league pay checks.)

Eating innings requires getting outs, sparky.

Also, let's quit acting like we gave Maton 12mil....

[cardstatman]

Also, let's quit acting like we gave Maton 12mil....

That's a good point. He will actually cost less than $1.5M since he will push someone else assumed to be making league minimum off the 26-man.

[Red Bird Classic]

Pointless.

Maton isn't going to make this team a WS contender.

He isn't going to speed up the "refresh/reload" or whatever they call their payroll purge.

And he isn't going to bring back anything significant if traded mid season.

Rookies cant eat all the inning, you dont want to expose some guys whonarent mlb ready. He provides good quality innjngs and he is tradable at the deadline. Not a huge return but there will be a return. He also can be packaged with helsley or arenado to improve a return.

Im not saying this is amazing but theres nothing to be upset about with this signing.

I wouldn't pay to much attention to Marmol. He's just spouting lines fed to him by Mozelack.

As for as eating innings. If you're worried about hurting rookie arms, you could pick up players off wavers to eat those innings. (They'd happily be used to pick up major-league pay checks.)

Eating innings requires getting outs, sparky.

Also, let's quit acting like we gave Maton 12mil....

Anybody can get outs. We've seen catchers, outfielders, and utility guys get outs. Just a matter of how ugly you're willing to let things get.

Two-million is more than 3 times what some waver-wire pitchers would cost, and Maton is worth maybe half a win, so the season will turn out about the same with or without him.

For a team that's trying to cut payroll, a team that has no chance of winning the WS, a team that isn't likely to be in the playoff hunt after June, it just doesn't make good sense.