Cranny wrote: ↑24 Apr 2026 08:35 am
Not giving Torres a shot is dumb.
At his age he really doesn't fit into what they are calling a "rebuild".
If his skills translate to the MLB level, why couldn't he? He has 6 years of team control. His bat to ball skills aren't going to diminish considerably in that time. He should be thought of as a utility man and not a starter at any position.
In a 9 year minor league career covering over 1900 AB's he has a .306 BA, .395 OBP, and .792 OPS. These numbers don't represent his best season, they are his averages. He has actually gotten better at the higher levels. He only strikes out 12.6% of the time and his splits must not be too bad to maintain those types of averages.
Games played in the minors:
Catcher 82
1B 43
2B 295
SS 1
3B 51
LF 47
CF 281
RF 42
I could fit him into a rebuild- especially the first half. If he played 40 games in CF and 20-30 games this summer to check him out- I ain't mad about that.
Cranny wrote: ↑24 Apr 2026 08:35 am
Not giving Torres a shot is dumb.
At his age he really doesn't fit into what they are calling a "rebuild".
If he succeeds, he would totally fit a rebuild. Like Garcia w the Rangers.
He will be 29 July 2nd. No, he would not fit a rebuild. But keep fighting the good fight defending every move this team makes and disagreeing with every one of my posts when you are totally wrong most of the time.
Some hypotheticals.
1. Torres is called up, does really well. Plays with the team for 5 years. That's part of the rebuild.
2. Torres is called up, does really well for a year, then is traded for a good, young MLB reliever.
Does a rebuilding team need a producing OFer? Yes. Does a rebuilding team need good bullpen arms? Yes.
Cranny wrote: ↑24 Apr 2026 08:35 am
Not giving Torres a shot is dumb.
At his age he really doesn't fit into what they are calling a "rebuild".
If he succeeds, he would totally fit a rebuild. Like Garcia w the Rangers.
He will be 29 July 2nd. No, he would not fit a rebuild. But keep fighting the good fight defending every move this team makes and disagreeing with every one of my posts when you are totally wrong most of the time.
Some hypotheticals.
1. Torres is called up, does really well. Plays with the team for 5 years. That's part of the rebuild.
2. Torres is called up, does really well for a year, then is traded for a good, young MLB reliever.
Does a rebuilding team need a producing OFer? Yes. Does a rebuilding team need good bullpen arms? Yes.
My internet has been in and out this morning.
But what you describing is not a rebuild. I would rather see a younger player playing in the outfield than a 29-year-old rookie.
Cranny wrote: ↑24 Apr 2026 08:35 am
Not giving Torres a shot is dumb.
At his age he really doesn't fit into what they are calling a "rebuild".
If he succeeds, he would totally fit a rebuild. Like Garcia w the Rangers.
He will be 29 July 2nd. No, he would not fit a rebuild. But keep fighting the good fight defending every move this team makes and disagreeing with every one of my posts when you are totally wrong most of the time.
Some hypotheticals.
1. Torres is called up, does really well. Plays with the team for 5 years. That's part of the rebuild.
2. Torres is called up, does really well for a year, then is traded for a good, young MLB reliever.
Does a rebuilding team need a producing OFer? Yes. Does a rebuilding team need good bullpen arms? Yes.
My internet has been in and out this morning.
But what you describing is not a rebuild. I would rather see a younger player playing in the outfield than a 29-year-old rookie.
Sure it’s a rebuild. He’s cost controlled, and has more team control than Sagesse.
A rebuild doesn’t necessarily mean finding a 22 year old who can play here for a decade.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑24 Apr 2026 10:53 am
VSII's time is indeed running short
I've been a fan and pulling for the kid but he simply can't hit.
Church has been hitting (last 34 PA's: .345 .412 .586 .998 ), SSS but massively better than Vic.
He's not the defensive CF'er Scott is but he's stolen as many bases (3).
I'd give Scott 100 PA's on the season (about one more week) to shake out of it.
If he's still scuffling, then move Church to CF and give Fermin some FT play in LF.
Scott may need to return to Memphis unless you want to keep him around for late inning defense/pinch running.
Either way, his time is running out.
JMO
Personally, I'd give him a little longer, probably until Noot gets back. The reason that I would go longer is I don't plan to re-visit him if he doesn't show progress. If it at that time he no longer fits in future plans I would do everything possible in the 60 days that follow and maximize his trade value (even if that means playing him).
Cranny wrote: ↑24 Apr 2026 08:35 am
Not giving Torres a shot is dumb.
At his age he really doesn't fit into what they are calling a "rebuild".
If he succeeds, he would totally fit a rebuild. Like Garcia w the Rangers.
He will be 29 July 2nd. No, he would not fit a rebuild. But keep fighting the good fight defending every move this team makes and disagreeing with every one of my posts when you are totally wrong most of the time.
Some hypotheticals.
1. Torres is called up, does really well. Plays with the team for 5 years. That's part of the rebuild.
2. Torres is called up, does really well for a year, then is traded for a good, young MLB reliever.
Does a rebuilding team need a producing OFer? Yes. Does a rebuilding team need good bullpen arms? Yes.
My internet has been in and out this morning.
But what you describing is not a rebuild. I would rather see a younger player playing in the outfield than a 29-year-old rookie.
Sure it’s a rebuild. He’s cost controlled, and has more team control than Sagesse.
A rebuild doesn’t necessarily mean finding a 22 year old who can play here for a decade.
Not in my opinion. And I think you totally wrong with what a rebuild really is, it is not playing 29-year-old rookies who haven't proven a thing. I rebelieve all you want to do is argue.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑24 Apr 2026 10:53 am
VSII's time is indeed running short
I've been a fan and pulling for the kid but he simply can't hit.
Church has been hitting (last 34 PA's: .345 .412 .586 .998 ), SSS but massively better than Vic.
He's not the defensive CF'er Scott is but he's stolen as many bases (3).
I'd give Scott 100 PA's on the season (about one more week) to shake out of it.
If he's still scuffling, then move Church to CF and give Fermin some FT play in LF.
Scott may need to return to Memphis unless you want to keep him around for late inning defense/pinch running.
Either way, his time is running out.
JMO
Personally, I'd give him a little longer, probably until Noot gets back. The reason that I would go longer is I don't plan to re-visit him if he doesn't show progress. If it at that time he no longer fits in future plans I would do everything possible in the 60 days that follow and maximize his trade value (even if that means playing him).
He's had 690 PA's in MLB which (IMO) is more than enough to get a handle on what he is or isn't as a hitter.
I don't mind him staying up here for late inning defense/pinch running but he's NOT helping the team win (I know, I know this is another "runway" type season but c'mon, how much longer a runway do we need to see he's NOT a major league hitter?).
Honest TB I don't think he has much of future here other than as a fourth OFer so "revisiting" may never be an issue if Church continues to progress and w/Baez on the fast track.
And his trade value has already plummeted.
You're likely right, they won't pull the plug as soon as I would.
Bernie did a real deep dive and had a great column today on him, really disturbing just how inept VSII has been this season.
Cranny wrote: ↑24 Apr 2026 08:35 am
Not giving Torres a shot is dumb.
At his age he really doesn't fit into what they are calling a "rebuild".
If he succeeds, he would totally fit a rebuild. Like Garcia w the Rangers.
He will be 29 July 2nd. No, he would not fit a rebuild. But keep fighting the good fight defending every move this team makes and disagreeing with every one of my posts when you are totally wrong most of the time.
Some hypotheticals.
1. Torres is called up, does really well. Plays with the team for 5 years. That's part of the rebuild.
2. Torres is called up, does really well for a year, then is traded for a good, young MLB reliever.
Does a rebuilding team need a producing OFer? Yes. Does a rebuilding team need good bullpen arms? Yes.
My internet has been in and out this morning.
But what you describing is not a rebuild. I would rather see a younger player playing in the outfield than a 29-year-old rookie.
Sure it’s a rebuild. He’s cost controlled, and has more team control than Sagesse.
A rebuild doesn’t necessarily mean finding a 22 year old who can play here for a decade.
Not in my opinion. And I think you totally wrong with what a rebuild really is, it is not playing 29-year-old rookies who haven't proven a thing. I rebelieve all you want to do is argue.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑24 Apr 2026 10:53 am
VSII's time is indeed running short
I've been a fan and pulling for the kid but he simply can't hit.
Church has been hitting (last 34 PA's: .345 .412 .586 .998 ), SSS but massively better than Vic.
He's not the defensive CF'er Scott is but he's stolen as many bases (3).
I'd give Scott 100 PA's on the season (about one more week) to shake out of it.
If he's still scuffling, then move Church to CF and give Fermin some FT play in LF.
Scott may need to return to Memphis unless you want to keep him around for late inning defense/pinch running.
Either way, his time is running out.
JMO
Personally, I'd give him a little longer, probably until Noot gets back. The reason that I would go longer is I don't plan to re-visit him if he doesn't show progress. If it at that time he no longer fits in future plans I would do everything possible in the 60 days that follow and maximize his trade value (even if that means playing him).
He's had 690 PA's in MLB which (IMO) is more than enough to get a handle on what he is or isn't as a hitter.
I don't mind him staying up here for late inning defense/pinch running but he's NOT helping the team win (I know, I know this is another "runway" type season but c'mon, how much longer a runway do we need to see he's NOT a major league hitter?).
Honest TB I don't think he has much of future here other than as a fourth OFer so "revisiting" may never be an issue if Church continues to progress and w/Baez on the fast track.
And his trade value has already plummeted.
You're likely right, they won't pull the plug as soon as I would.
Bernie did a real deep dive and had a great column today on him, really disturbing just how inept VSII has been this season.
If they send him somewhere, here's where he should go- Pittsburgh Pirates.
I think they are legit contenders. They have the awesome pitching staff, but in CF they run O'Neill Cruz out everyday. HE IS A BUTCHER IN CF! Marcell Ozuna is putting up a horrific line as a DH. Move Cruz to DH and let Scott put up the poor line while helping their pitchers big-time.
Cranny wrote: ↑24 Apr 2026 08:35 am
Not giving Torres a shot is dumb.
At his age he really doesn't fit into what they are calling a "rebuild".
If he succeeds, he would totally fit a rebuild. Like Garcia w the Rangers.
He will be 29 July 2nd. No, he would not fit a rebuild. But keep fighting the good fight defending every move this team makes and disagreeing with every one of my posts when you are totally wrong most of the time.
Some hypotheticals.
1. Torres is called up, does really well. Plays with the team for 5 years. That's part of the rebuild.
2. Torres is called up, does really well for a year, then is traded for a good, young MLB reliever.
Does a rebuilding team need a producing OFer? Yes. Does a rebuilding team need good bullpen arms? Yes.
My internet has been in and out this morning.
But what you describing is not a rebuild. I would rather see a younger player playing in the outfield than a 29-year-old rookie.
Sure it’s a rebuild. He’s cost controlled, and has more team control than Sagesse.
A rebuild doesn’t necessarily mean finding a 22 year old who can play here for a decade.
Not in my opinion. And I think you totally wrong with what a rebuild really is, it is not playing 29-year-old rookies who haven't proven a thing. I rebelieve all you want to do is argue.
What is a rebuild to you?
Younger players, not 29-year-old rookies and 31-year-old utility players + a 34-year-old reliever who can't get anyone out and Pages as catcher. A rebuild is younger players and not just a salary dump as it has ended up being.
I totally say go with the youth and live with what they produce.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑24 Apr 2026 10:53 am
VSII's time is indeed running short
I've been a fan and pulling for the kid but he simply can't hit.
Church has been hitting (last 34 PA's: .345 .412 .586 .998 ), SSS but massively better than Vic.
He's not the defensive CF'er Scott is but he's stolen as many bases (3).
I'd give Scott 100 PA's on the season (about one more week) to shake out of it.
If he's still scuffling, then move Church to CF and give Fermin some FT play in LF.
Scott may need to return to Memphis unless you want to keep him around for late inning defense/pinch running.
Either way, his time is running out.
JMO
Personally, I'd give him a little longer, probably until Noot gets back. The reason that I would go longer is I don't plan to re-visit him if he doesn't show progress. If it at that time he no longer fits in future plans I would do everything possible in the 60 days that follow and maximize his trade value (even if that means playing him).
He's had 690 PA's in MLB which (IMO) is more than enough to get a handle on what he is or isn't as a hitter.
I don't mind him staying up here for late inning defense/pinch running but he's NOT helping the team win (I know, I know this is another "runway" type season but c'mon, how much longer a runway do we need to see he's NOT a major league hitter?).
Honest TB I don't think he has much of future here other than as a fourth OFer so "revisiting" may never be an issue if Church continues to progress and w/Baez on the fast track.
And his trade value has already plummeted.
You're likely right, they won't pull the plug as soon as I would.
Bernie did a real deep dive and had a great column today on him, really disturbing just how inept VSII has been this season.
If they send him somewhere, here's where he should go- Pittsburgh Pirates.
I think they are legit contenders. They have the awesome pitching staff, but in CF they run O'Neill Cruz out everyday. HE IS A BUTCHER IN CF! Marcell Ozuna is putting up a horrific line as a DH. Move Cruz to DH and let Scott put up the poor line while helping their pitchers big-time.
Cruz is indeed pathetic in CF.
Not sure they'd deal him within the division though.
Cranny wrote: ↑24 Apr 2026 08:35 am
Not giving Torres a shot is dumb.
At his age he really doesn't fit into what they are calling a "rebuild".
If he succeeds, he would totally fit a rebuild. Like Garcia w the Rangers.
He will be 29 July 2nd. No, he would not fit a rebuild. But keep fighting the good fight defending every move this team makes and disagreeing with every one of my posts when you are totally wrong most of the time.
Some hypotheticals.
1. Torres is called up, does really well. Plays with the team for 5 years. That's part of the rebuild.
2. Torres is called up, does really well for a year, then is traded for a good, young MLB reliever.
Does a rebuilding team need a producing OFer? Yes. Does a rebuilding team need good bullpen arms? Yes.
My internet has been in and out this morning.
But what you describing is not a rebuild. I would rather see a younger player playing in the outfield than a 29-year-old rookie.
Sure it’s a rebuild. He’s cost controlled, and has more team control than Sagesse.
A rebuild doesn’t necessarily mean finding a 22 year old who can play here for a decade.
Not in my opinion. And I think you totally wrong with what a rebuild really is, it is not playing 29-year-old rookies who haven't proven a thing. I rebelieve all you want to do is argue.
What is a rebuild to you?
Younger players, not 29-year-old rookies and 31-year-old utility players + a 34-year-old reliever who can't get anyone out and Pages as catcher. A rebuild is younger players and not just a salary dump as it has ended up being.
I totally say go with the youth and live with what they produce.
My hope is that the org has improved talent evaluation, which can lead to more correct and decisive decisions (ie. not needing to give Sagesse a 2 year tryout to know who he is).
Riley O'Brien is 31 years old. We like him, no? He is definitely part of a rebuild because 1) he's cost controlled and 2) can be flipped..... Same with May, Urias, etc. Most rebuilds have a mix of flippable vets, which can deliver more young players.
Lastly, let's say the Cards are willing to spend money next offseason. Great! And let's say they sign a really good hitting FA outfielder to a super cheap 3 year/3mil contract. I think EVERYBODY would love that and think it's nuts he's so cheap. Well, what if that is Torres? Might be a long shot, but might be more interesting to see what he can do for a month instead of Scott. Just saying...
rockondlouie wrote: ↑24 Apr 2026 10:53 am
VSII's time is indeed running short
I've been a fan and pulling for the kid but he simply can't hit.
Church has been hitting (last 34 PA's: .345 .412 .586 .998 ), SSS but massively better than Vic.
He's not the defensive CF'er Scott is but he's stolen as many bases (3).
I'd give Scott 100 PA's on the season (about one more week) to shake out of it.
If he's still scuffling, then move Church to CF and give Fermin some FT play in LF.
Scott may need to return to Memphis unless you want to keep him around for late inning defense/pinch running.
Either way, his time is running out.
JMO
Personally, I'd give him a little longer, probably until Noot gets back. The reason that I would go longer is I don't plan to re-visit him if he doesn't show progress. If it at that time he no longer fits in future plans I would do everything possible in the 60 days that follow and maximize his trade value (even if that means playing him).
He's had 690 PA's in MLB which (IMO) is more than enough to get a handle on what he is or isn't as a hitter.
I don't mind him staying up here for late inning defense/pinch running but he's NOT helping the team win (I know, I know this is another "runway" type season but c'mon, how much longer a runway do we need to see he's NOT a major league hitter?).
Honest TB I don't think he has much of future here other than as a fourth OFer so "revisiting" may never be an issue if Church continues to progress and w/Baez on the fast track.
And his trade value has already plummeted.
You're likely right, they won't pull the plug as soon as I would.
Bernie did a real deep dive and had a great column today on him, really disturbing just how inept VSII has been this season.
If they send him somewhere, here's where he should go- Pittsburgh Pirates.
I think they are legit contenders. They have the awesome pitching staff, but in CF they run O'Neill Cruz out everyday. HE IS A BUTCHER IN CF! Marcell Ozuna is putting up a horrific line as a DH. Move Cruz to DH and let Scott put up the poor line while helping their pitchers big-time.
Cruz is indeed pathetic in CF.
Not sure they'd deal him within the division though.
rockondlouie wrote: ↑24 Apr 2026 10:53 am
VSII's time is indeed running short
I've been a fan and pulling for the kid but he simply can't hit.
Church has been hitting (last 34 PA's: .345 .412 .586 .998 ), SSS but massively better than Vic.
He's not the defensive CF'er Scott is but he's stolen as many bases (3).
I'd give Scott 100 PA's on the season (about one more week) to shake out of it.
If he's still scuffling, then move Church to CF and give Fermin some FT play in LF.
Scott may need to return to Memphis unless you want to keep him around for late inning defense/pinch running.
Either way, his time is running out.
JMO
Personally, I'd give him a little longer, probably until Noot gets back. The reason that I would go longer is I don't plan to re-visit him if he doesn't show progress. If it at that time he no longer fits in future plans I would do everything possible in the 60 days that follow and maximize his trade value (even if that means playing him).
He's had 690 PA's in MLB which (IMO) is more than enough to get a handle on what he is or isn't as a hitter.
I don't mind him staying up here for late inning defense/pinch running but he's NOT helping the team win (I know, I know this is another "runway" type season but c'mon, how much longer a runway do we need to see he's NOT a major league hitter?).
Honest TB I don't think he has much of future here other than as a fourth OFer so "revisiting" may never be an issue if Church continues to progress and w/Baez on the fast track.
And his trade value has already plummeted.
You're likely right, they won't pull the plug as soon as I would.
Bernie did a real deep dive and had a great column today on him, really disturbing just how inept VSII has been this season.
If they send him somewhere, here's where he should go- Pittsburgh Pirates.
I think they are legit contenders. They have the awesome pitching staff, but in CF they run O'Neill Cruz out everyday. HE IS A BUTCHER IN CF! Marcell Ozuna is putting up a horrific line as a DH. Move Cruz to DH and let Scott put up the poor line while helping their pitchers big-time.
Cruz is indeed pathetic in CF.
Not sure they'd deal him within the division though.
