11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:24 pmSo how does a team in a total rebuild be better this year than last year?
It’s not a rebuild.
I wish people would understand this.
I understand better than you.
It's a [censored] and has been for several seasons and now it enters the gaslight phase.
If you’re calling it a rebuild, then no, you don’t. It’s an organizational reset, just as they’ve said many times and what they’re showing through execution.
They quickly put together a young, hyper cost controlled rotation, just like they’ve had in Cleveland. They clearly targeted proximal arms that they think can be competitive in the big leagues. And they’ve dramatically slashed their payroll.
I guess I need to use the slow kids emoji sign for some of you.
As I said its a shirtshow and has been for the last few seasons and now it has moved into the gaslight phase.
These guys are talking out their backsides guaranteeing payroll increases when they have no idea where the income is coming from or when.
11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:24 pmSo how does a team in a total rebuild be better this year than last year?
It’s not a rebuild.
I wish people would understand this.
I understand better than you.
It's a [censored] and has been for several seasons and now it enters the gaslight phase.
If you’re calling it a rebuild, then no, you don’t. It’s an organizational reset, just as they’ve said many times and what they’re showing through execution.
They quickly put together a young, hyper cost controlled rotation, just like they’ve had in Cleveland. They clearly targeted proximal arms that they think can be competitive in the big leagues. And they’ve dramatically slashed their payroll.
I guess I need to use the slow kids emoji sign for some of you.
As I said its a shirtshow and has been for the last few seasons and now it has moved into the gaslight phase.
These guys are talking out their backsides guaranteeing payroll increases when they have no idea where the income is coming from or when.
11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:24 pmSo how does a team in a total rebuild be better this year than last year?
It’s not a rebuild.
I wish people would understand this.
I understand better than you.
It's a [censored] and has been for several seasons and now it enters the gaslight phase.
If you’re calling it a rebuild, then no, you don’t. It’s an organizational reset, just as they’ve said many times and what they’re showing through execution.
They quickly put together a young, hyper cost controlled rotation, just like they’ve had in Cleveland. They clearly targeted proximal arms that they think can be competitive in the big leagues. And they’ve dramatically slashed their payroll.
They are doing what teams do in a rebuild.
We must have different definitions of rebuild. I don’t consider teams in an early rebuild as teams who are also looking to be competitive.
There are different depths of rebuilds. For instance, the 2025 Cards org wasn’t in the same mess as the 2011 Cubs.
Two days ago:
ecleme22 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 22:50 pm
The Cards' behavior does support your theory.
Now you're back to debating it. That's fine.
You used a terrible debate tactic when we talked about it then, saying:
When the 2012-2013 Cubs drastically lowered their payroll, I could've also said it's because they were now becoming a smaller market team.
Arguing that the CHICAGO CUBS were becoming a SMALL MARKET TEAM would be one of the dumbest positions anyone could possibly take in ANY baseball discussion.
St Louis is now a small market in baseball and receiving revenue share. Their media value has cratered. It's OK to acknowledge that.
Every rebuilding team does what the cards are doing now.
Your theory about them now becoming a small market team has no proof to it. Only the way you are trying to infer the word ‘reset.’
The hell you mean "no proof"?
You're really gonna dispute that the Cardinals became a NET RECEIVER for revenue sharing for the first time EVER?
You're really gonna dispute the fact that their media / cable deal went up in smoke with the Bally's bankruptcy? https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/A ... irst-time/
The St. Louis Cardinals will “be a receiver” this winter within the current MLB revenue-sharing system for the first time following a full season in at least 25 years and since the advent of the current program, which began in 1996. The team is eligible for a top-six pick in the upcoming MLB Draft Lottery because they “will be classified as a ‘payee.’
Their ticket sales have dropped 30.6% since the 3.2 million sold in 2023.
The Cardinals had to “rework their broadcast-rights deal” a year ago with partner FanDuel Sports Network at a rate reduced by 23%
The Cardinals have a bottom-five market score
Their rights fees were cut, contract shortened, and NOW the new rightsholder is missing payments.
FOH with no proof. Don't be obtuse. That's a choice you're making. I do low-key love the idea that you'd try to position Chicago as a small market for your argument
Yeah, there’s no proof.
You're so weird sometimes, I don't know why.
Dispute that the Cardinals are net receivers, then.
Dispute the Bally's bankruptcy.
Dispute the missed rightsholder payment.
If you're going to contend that there is no proof, you're just confirming that your main priority is being dishonest.
Why be dishonest just for the hell of it?
You can acknowledge the truth. Why is that hard for you?
11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:24 pmSo how does a team in a total rebuild be better this year than last year?
It’s not a rebuild.
I wish people would understand this.
I understand better than you.
It's a [censored] and has been for several seasons and now it enters the gaslight phase.
If you’re calling it a rebuild, then no, you don’t. It’s an organizational reset, just as they’ve said many times and what they’re showing through execution.
They quickly put together a young, hyper cost controlled rotation, just like they’ve had in Cleveland. They clearly targeted proximal arms that they think can be competitive in the big leagues. And they’ve dramatically slashed their payroll.
I guess I need to use the slow kids emoji sign for some of you.
As I said its a shirtshow and has been for the last few seasons and now it has moved into the gaslight phase.
These guys are talking out their backsides guaranteeing payroll increases when they have no idea where the income is coming from or when.
Then why are you arguing with me, jackhole? I'm saying the same (bleep) thing, that the revenue streams have been shot, and that they're going to a small market model because of it.
It sure seems you're saying that, too, but calling me an idiot.
This whole discussion is weird to me. There are people who are scared to death that we are going to start operating as the Pirates have done for a long time. There are those who seem outraged, or some in denial, that the Pirates may currently be better than the Cardinals. Many seem upset that the Cardinals have taken a new (and unfamiliar) approach going forward. Folks, we didn't just wake up this offseason with the Pirates being better than the Cardinals. That has been 10 years in the making. Our stubbornness, ignorance, and arrogance have led us here. The fact that there is even a discussion about which team is better represents a problem. The key question is; what will they do about it? We may not agree with all the actions taken, but I for one am glad that they seem to see a problem and have mapped out a path forward. It is my personal belief that the Pirates are better than the Cardinals today, but I don't believe that will remain so going forward.
When you operate in stubbornness, ignorance, and arrogance for any period of time there is a harvest to reap for that. This is what we are seeing. Let's not blame the cleaning crew for the mess.
11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:24 pmSo how does a team in a total rebuild be better this year than last year?
It’s not a rebuild.
I wish people would understand this.
I understand better than you.
It's a [censored] and has been for several seasons and now it enters the gaslight phase.
If you’re calling it a rebuild, then no, you don’t. It’s an organizational reset, just as they’ve said many times and what they’re showing through execution.
They quickly put together a young, hyper cost controlled rotation, just like they’ve had in Cleveland. They clearly targeted proximal arms that they think can be competitive in the big leagues. And they’ve dramatically slashed their payroll.
They are doing what teams do in a rebuild.
We must have different definitions of rebuild. I don’t consider teams in an early rebuild as teams who are also looking to be competitive.
There are different depths of rebuilds. For instance, the 2025 Cards org wasn’t in the same mess as the 2011 Cubs.
Agree
I myself wouldn’t label it a “rebuild” but more like a “reset”.
But those are just terms and subject to debate.
I see a “rebuild” as being more of a tear down.
Don’t see that as the case.
Moving on from vets who are aging and past their prime is what a lot of teams do on a regular basis.
Well there you go. ‘Reset’ can be exactly what you said. ‘Reset’ can be a softer rebuild, or simply the FO wanting to use a softer word to describe a dreaded rebuild to fans.
True
I just don’t get as bummed as some on here who consider this “rebuild” as worse than it is.
Hey I know I’m an optimist but I’m getting excited for the new season not that I’m predicting them going some some great run!
Lots of new/young guys to get a peek at.
11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:24 pmSo how does a team in a total rebuild be better this year than last year?
It’s not a rebuild.
I wish people would understand this.
I understand better than you.
It's a [censored] and has been for several seasons and now it enters the gaslight phase.
If you’re calling it a rebuild, then no, you don’t. It’s an organizational reset, just as they’ve said many times and what they’re showing through execution.
They quickly put together a young, hyper cost controlled rotation, just like they’ve had in Cleveland. They clearly targeted proximal arms that they think can be competitive in the big leagues. And they’ve dramatically slashed their payroll.
They are doing what teams do in a rebuild.
We must have different definitions of rebuild. I don’t consider teams in an early rebuild as teams who are also looking to be competitive.
There are different depths of rebuilds. For instance, the 2025 Cards org wasn’t in the same mess as the 2011 Cubs.
Two days ago:
ecleme22 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 22:50 pm
The Cards' behavior does support your theory.
Now you're back to debating it. That's fine.
You used a terrible debate tactic when we talked about it then, saying:
When the 2012-2013 Cubs drastically lowered their payroll, I could've also said it's because they were now becoming a smaller market team.
Arguing that the CHICAGO CUBS were becoming a SMALL MARKET TEAM would be one of the dumbest positions anyone could possibly take in ANY baseball discussion.
St Louis is now a small market in baseball and receiving revenue share. Their media value has cratered. It's OK to acknowledge that.
Every rebuilding team does what the cards are doing now.
Your theory about them now becoming a small market team has no proof to it. Only the way you are trying to infer the word ‘reset.’
The hell you mean "no proof"?
You're really gonna dispute that the Cardinals became a NET RECEIVER for revenue sharing for the first time EVER?
You're really gonna dispute the fact that their media / cable deal went up in smoke with the Bally's bankruptcy? https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/A ... irst-time/
The St. Louis Cardinals will “be a receiver” this winter within the current MLB revenue-sharing system for the first time following a full season in at least 25 years and since the advent of the current program, which began in 1996. The team is eligible for a top-six pick in the upcoming MLB Draft Lottery because they “will be classified as a ‘payee.’
Their ticket sales have dropped 30.6% since the 3.2 million sold in 2023.
The Cardinals had to “rework their broadcast-rights deal” a year ago with partner FanDuel Sports Network at a rate reduced by 23%
The Cardinals have a bottom-five market score
Their rights fees were cut, contract shortened, and NOW the new rightsholder is missing payments.
FOH with no proof. Don't be obtuse. That's a choice you're making. I do low-key love the idea that you'd try to position Chicago as a small market for your argument
Yeah, there’s no proof.
You're so weird sometimes, I don't know why.
Dispute that the Cardinals are net receivers, then.
Dispute the Bally's bankruptcy.
Dispute the missed rightsholder payment.
If you're going to contend that there is no proof, you're just confirming that your main priority is being dishonest.
Why be dishonest just for the hell of it?
You can acknowledge the truth. Why is that hard for you?
They became net receivers, in part, to lower attendance do to their rebuild.
You’re trying to connect dots that aren’t there.
You take the word ‘reset’ and run with it.
This is just another one of those times you are wrong and, when proven wrong, will slip back into the shadows (see 2025: Siani).
11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:24 pmSo how does a team in a total rebuild be better this year than last year?
It’s not a rebuild.
I wish people would understand this.
I understand better than you.
It's a [censored] and has been for several seasons and now it enters the gaslight phase.
If you’re calling it a rebuild, then no, you don’t. It’s an organizational reset, just as they’ve said many times and what they’re showing through execution.
They quickly put together a young, hyper cost controlled rotation, just like they’ve had in Cleveland. They clearly targeted proximal arms that they think can be competitive in the big leagues. And they’ve dramatically slashed their payroll.
They are doing what teams do in a rebuild.
We must have different definitions of rebuild. I don’t consider teams in an early rebuild as teams who are also looking to be competitive.
There are different depths of rebuilds. For instance, the 2025 Cards org wasn’t in the same mess as the 2011 Cubs.
Agree
I myself wouldn’t label it a “rebuild” but more like a “reset”.
But those are just terms and subject to debate.
I see a “rebuild” as being more of a tear down.
Don’t see that as the case.
Moving on from vets who are aging and past their prime is what a lot of teams do on a regular basis.
Well there you go. ‘Reset’ can be exactly what you said. ‘Reset’ can be a softer rebuild, or simply the FO wanting to use a softer word to describe a dreaded rebuild to fans.
True
I just don’t get as bummed as some on here who consider this “rebuild” as worse than it is.
Hey I know I’m an optimist but I’m getting excited for the new season not that I’m predicting them going some some great run!
Lots of new/young guys to get a peek at.
I’m very excited by this rebuild.
I can understand Mo/Bloom calling it a ‘reset.’ A reset implies the rebuild will be modest. Which I think it will be.
11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:24 pmSo how does a team in a total rebuild be better this year than last year?
It’s not a rebuild.
I wish people would understand this.
I understand better than you.
It's a [censored] and has been for several seasons and now it enters the gaslight phase.
If you’re calling it a rebuild, then no, you don’t. It’s an organizational reset, just as they’ve said many times and what they’re showing through execution.
They quickly put together a young, hyper cost controlled rotation, just like they’ve had in Cleveland. They clearly targeted proximal arms that they think can be competitive in the big leagues. And they’ve dramatically slashed their payroll.
They are doing what teams do in a rebuild.
We must have different definitions of rebuild. I don’t consider teams in an early rebuild as teams who are also looking to be competitive.
There are different depths of rebuilds. For instance, the 2025 Cards org wasn’t in the same mess as the 2011 Cubs.
Agree
I myself wouldn’t label it a “rebuild” but more like a “reset”.
But those are just terms and subject to debate.
I see a “rebuild” as being more of a tear down.
Don’t see that as the case.
Moving on from vets who are aging and past their prime is what a lot of teams do on a regular basis.
Well there you go. ‘Reset’ can be exactly what you said. ‘Reset’ can be a softer rebuild, or simply the FO wanting to use a softer word to describe a dreaded rebuild to fans.
True
I just don’t get as bummed as some on here who consider this “rebuild” as worse than it is.
Hey I know I’m an optimist but I’m getting excited for the new season not that I’m predicting them going some some great run!
Lots of new/young guys to get a peek at.
I’m very excited by this rebuild.
I can understand Mo/Bloom calling it a ‘reset.’ A reset implies the rebuild will be modest. Which I think it will be.
Agree
Still a ways to go this offseason.
We know of the desire to move Arenado and that may be on hold until the 3B Market(Bregman, Suarez, etc) sorts itself out.
To me the biggest question is Donovan.
I really like him and kind of hope he stays.
But....his trade value will probably never be higher so wait and see!
An Old Friend wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 22:09 pm
It’s not a rebuild.
I wish people would understand this.
I understand better than you.
It's a [censored] and has been for several seasons and now it enters the gaslight phase.
If you’re calling it a rebuild, then no, you don’t. It’s an organizational reset, just as they’ve said many times and what they’re showing through execution.
They quickly put together a young, hyper cost controlled rotation, just like they’ve had in Cleveland. They clearly targeted proximal arms that they think can be competitive in the big leagues. And they’ve dramatically slashed their payroll.
They are doing what teams do in a rebuild.
We must have different definitions of rebuild. I don’t consider teams in an early rebuild as teams who are also looking to be competitive.
There are different depths of rebuilds. For instance, the 2025 Cards org wasn’t in the same mess as the 2011 Cubs.
Two days ago:
ecleme22 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 22:50 pm
The Cards' behavior does support your theory.
Now you're back to debating it. That's fine.
You used a terrible debate tactic when we talked about it then, saying:
When the 2012-2013 Cubs drastically lowered their payroll, I could've also said it's because they were now becoming a smaller market team.
Arguing that the CHICAGO CUBS were becoming a SMALL MARKET TEAM would be one of the dumbest positions anyone could possibly take in ANY baseball discussion.
St Louis is now a small market in baseball and receiving revenue share. Their media value has cratered. It's OK to acknowledge that.
Every rebuilding team does what the cards are doing now.
Your theory about them now becoming a small market team has no proof to it. Only the way you are trying to infer the word ‘reset.’
The hell you mean "no proof"?
You're really gonna dispute that the Cardinals became a NET RECEIVER for revenue sharing for the first time EVER?
You're really gonna dispute the fact that their media / cable deal went up in smoke with the Bally's bankruptcy? https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/A ... irst-time/
The St. Louis Cardinals will “be a receiver” this winter within the current MLB revenue-sharing system for the first time following a full season in at least 25 years and since the advent of the current program, which began in 1996. The team is eligible for a top-six pick in the upcoming MLB Draft Lottery because they “will be classified as a ‘payee.’
Their ticket sales have dropped 30.6% since the 3.2 million sold in 2023.
The Cardinals had to “rework their broadcast-rights deal” a year ago with partner FanDuel Sports Network at a rate reduced by 23%
The Cardinals have a bottom-five market score
Their rights fees were cut, contract shortened, and NOW the new rightsholder is missing payments.
FOH with no proof. Don't be obtuse. That's a choice you're making. I do low-key love the idea that you'd try to position Chicago as a small market for your argument
Yeah, there’s no proof.
You're so weird sometimes, I don't know why.
Dispute that the Cardinals are net receivers, then.
Dispute the Bally's bankruptcy.
Dispute the missed rightsholder payment.
If you're going to contend that there is no proof, you're just confirming that your main priority is being dishonest.
Why be dishonest just for the hell of it?
You can acknowledge the truth. Why is that hard for you?
They became net receivers, in part, to lower attendance do to their rebuild.
You’re trying to connect dots that aren’t there.
Facts are proof. Why would you claim that the Bally’s bankruptcy didn’t happen (“dots that aren’t there”) and that their media value has shrunk (citation provided).
Ignoring facts doesn’t negate their existence. They’re easily connected dots.
You ignoring them is dishonest at best. But this is what you do when you’re both bored and wrong.[/quote]
You take the word ‘reset’ and run with it.
This is just another one of those times you are wrong and, when proven wrong, will slip back into the shadows (see 2025: Siani).
That made up narrative about Siani that you crafted and CT subsequently ripped you for before the mods took down your trolling thread?
You know that my argument was always that I didn’t think VICTOR SCOTT was ready and that he shouldn’t just be gifted the job before earning the job.
And we both saw how well (errr, how poorly) he performed… proving my whole point.
But if you want to make up some more arguments I didn’t make, feel free. Go ahead and include it with your argument that Chicago is a small market
Last edited by An Old Friend on 26 Dec 2025 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:24 pmSo how does a team in a total rebuild be better this year than last year?
It’s not a rebuild.
I wish people would understand this.
I understand better than you.
It's a [censored] and has been for several seasons and now it enters the gaslight phase.
If you’re calling it a rebuild, then no, you don’t. It’s an organizational reset, just as they’ve said many times and what they’re showing through execution.
They quickly put together a young, hyper cost controlled rotation, just like they’ve had in Cleveland. They clearly targeted proximal arms that they think can be competitive in the big leagues. And they’ve dramatically slashed their payroll.
They are doing what teams do in a rebuild.
We must have different definitions of rebuild. I don’t consider teams in an early rebuild as teams who are also looking to be competitive.
There are different depths of rebuilds. For instance, the 2025 Cards org wasn’t in the same mess as the 2011 Cubs.
Agree
I myself wouldn’t label it a “rebuild” but more like a “reset”.
But those are just terms and subject to debate.
I see a “rebuild” as being more of a tear down.
Don’t see that as the case.
Moving on from vets who are aging and past their prime is what a lot of teams do on a regular basis.
Well there you go. ‘Reset’ can be exactly what you said. ‘Reset’ can be a softer rebuild, or simply the FO wanting to use a softer word to describe a dreaded rebuild to fans.
True
I just don’t get as bummed as some on here who consider this “rebuild” as worse than it is.
Hey I know I’m an optimist but I’m getting excited for the new season not that I’m predicting them going some some great run!
Lots of new/young guys to get a peek at.
I’m very excited by this rebuild.
I can understand Mo/Bloom calling it a ‘reset.’ A reset implies the rebuild will be modest. Which I think it will be.
Agree
Still a ways to go this offseason.
We know of the desire to move Arenado and that may be on hold until the 3B Market(Bregman, Suarez, etc) sorts itself out.
To me the biggest question is Donovan.
I really like him and kind of hope he stays.
But....his trade value will probably never be higher so wait and see!
By the end of the season, ecleme will claim that he’s always said it was a reset and never a rebuild… because it’s not, but he’ll want to wait until these threads disappear
It's a [censored] and has been for several seasons and now it enters the gaslight phase.
If you’re calling it a rebuild, then no, you don’t. It’s an organizational reset, just as they’ve said many times and what they’re showing through execution.
They quickly put together a young, hyper cost controlled rotation, just like they’ve had in Cleveland. They clearly targeted proximal arms that they think can be competitive in the big leagues. And they’ve dramatically slashed their payroll.
They are doing what teams do in a rebuild.
We must have different definitions of rebuild. I don’t consider teams in an early rebuild as teams who are also looking to be competitive.
There are different depths of rebuilds. For instance, the 2025 Cards org wasn’t in the same mess as the 2011 Cubs.
Two days ago:
ecleme22 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 22:50 pm
The Cards' behavior does support your theory.
Now you're back to debating it. That's fine.
You used a terrible debate tactic when we talked about it then, saying:
When the 2012-2013 Cubs drastically lowered their payroll, I could've also said it's because they were now becoming a smaller market team.
Arguing that the CHICAGO CUBS were becoming a SMALL MARKET TEAM would be one of the dumbest positions anyone could possibly take in ANY baseball discussion.
St Louis is now a small market in baseball and receiving revenue share. Their media value has cratered. It's OK to acknowledge that.
Every rebuilding team does what the cards are doing now.
Your theory about them now becoming a small market team has no proof to it. Only the way you are trying to infer the word ‘reset.’
The hell you mean "no proof"?
You're really gonna dispute that the Cardinals became a NET RECEIVER for revenue sharing for the first time EVER?
You're really gonna dispute the fact that their media / cable deal went up in smoke with the Bally's bankruptcy? https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/A ... irst-time/
The St. Louis Cardinals will “be a receiver” this winter within the current MLB revenue-sharing system for the first time following a full season in at least 25 years and since the advent of the current program, which began in 1996. The team is eligible for a top-six pick in the upcoming MLB Draft Lottery because they “will be classified as a ‘payee.’
Their ticket sales have dropped 30.6% since the 3.2 million sold in 2023.
The Cardinals had to “rework their broadcast-rights deal” a year ago with partner FanDuel Sports Network at a rate reduced by 23%
The Cardinals have a bottom-five market score
Their rights fees were cut, contract shortened, and NOW the new rightsholder is missing payments.
FOH with no proof. Don't be obtuse. That's a choice you're making. I do low-key love the idea that you'd try to position Chicago as a small market for your argument
Yeah, there’s no proof.
You're so weird sometimes, I don't know why.
Dispute that the Cardinals are net receivers, then.
Dispute the Bally's bankruptcy.
Dispute the missed rightsholder payment.
If you're going to contend that there is no proof, you're just confirming that your main priority is being dishonest.
Why be dishonest just for the hell of it?
You can acknowledge the truth. Why is that hard for you?
They became net receivers, in part, to lower attendance do to their rebuild.
You’re trying to connect dots that aren’t there.
Facts are proof. Why would you claim that the Bally’s bankruptcy didn’t happen (“dots that aren’t there”) and that their media value has shrunk (citation provided).
Ignoring facts doesn’t negate their existence. They’re easily connected dots.
You ignoring them is dishonest at best. But this is what you do when you’re both bored and wrong.
You take the word ‘reset’ and run with it.
This is just another one of those times you are wrong and, when proven wrong, will slip back into the shadows (see 2025: Siani).
That made up narrative about Siani that you crafted and CT subsequently ripped you for before the mods took down your trolling thread?
You know that my argument was always that I didn’t think VICTOR SCOTT was ready and that he shouldn’t just be gifted the job before earning the job.
And we both saw how well (errr, how poorly) he performed… proving my whole point.
But if you want to make up some more arguments I didn’t make, feel free. Go ahead and include it with your argument that Chicago is a small market
[/quote]
You said there was NO WAY Scott should be on the mlb roster to begin the season no matter how well he did in ST.
An Old Friend wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 22:09 pm
It’s not a rebuild.
I wish people would understand this.
I understand better than you.
It's a [censored] and has been for several seasons and now it enters the gaslight phase.
If you’re calling it a rebuild, then no, you don’t. It’s an organizational reset, just as they’ve said many times and what they’re showing through execution.
They quickly put together a young, hyper cost controlled rotation, just like they’ve had in Cleveland. They clearly targeted proximal arms that they think can be competitive in the big leagues. And they’ve dramatically slashed their payroll.
They are doing what teams do in a rebuild.
We must have different definitions of rebuild. I don’t consider teams in an early rebuild as teams who are also looking to be competitive.
There are different depths of rebuilds. For instance, the 2025 Cards org wasn’t in the same mess as the 2011 Cubs.
Agree
I myself wouldn’t label it a “rebuild” but more like a “reset”.
But those are just terms and subject to debate.
I see a “rebuild” as being more of a tear down.
Don’t see that as the case.
Moving on from vets who are aging and past their prime is what a lot of teams do on a regular basis.
Well there you go. ‘Reset’ can be exactly what you said. ‘Reset’ can be a softer rebuild, or simply the FO wanting to use a softer word to describe a dreaded rebuild to fans.
True
I just don’t get as bummed as some on here who consider this “rebuild” as worse than it is.
Hey I know I’m an optimist but I’m getting excited for the new season not that I’m predicting them going some some great run!
Lots of new/young guys to get a peek at.
I’m very excited by this rebuild.
I can understand Mo/Bloom calling it a ‘reset.’ A reset implies the rebuild will be modest. Which I think it will be.
Agree
Still a ways to go this offseason.
We know of the desire to move Arenado and that may be on hold until the 3B Market(Bregman, Suarez, etc) sorts itself out.
To me the biggest question is Donovan.
I really like him and kind of hope he stays.
But....his trade value will probably never be higher so wait and see!
By the end of the season, ecleme will claim that he’s always said it was a reset and never a rebuild… because it’s not, but he’ll want to wait until these threads disappear
Well my claim is Mo/Bloom used ‘reset’ as nearly synonymous to ‘rebuild’ or “soft rebuild.” So already your claim above makes no sense.
Your claim that what they are doing is to totally change everything so they operate with a low payroll while still being competitive (like Tampa).
By next offseason, when you are proven wrong, I can see you start to make excuses about….wait…nevermind…you will simply stop talking about it.
11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:24 pmSo how does a team in a total rebuild be better this year than last year?
It’s not a rebuild.
I wish people would understand this.
I understand better than you.
It's a [censored] and has been for several seasons and now it enters the gaslight phase.
If you’re calling it a rebuild, then no, you don’t. It’s an organizational reset, just as they’ve said many times and what they’re showing through execution.
They quickly put together a young, hyper cost controlled rotation, just like they’ve had in Cleveland. They clearly targeted proximal arms that they think can be competitive in the big leagues. And they’ve dramatically slashed their payroll.
I guess I need to use the slow kids emoji sign for some of you.
As I said its a shirtshow and has been for the last few seasons and now it has moved into the gaslight phase.
These guys are talking out their backsides guaranteeing payroll increases when they have no idea where the income is coming from or when.
Then why are you arguing with me, jackhole? I'm saying the same (drat) thing, that the revenue streams have been shot, and that they're going to a small market model because of it.
It sure seems you're saying that, too, but calling me an idiot.
Why? Honest question.
You responded to me first Einstein not the other way around. I was discussing with Ozzie.
