4 top prospects Cardinals are eyeing in a Donovan deal ..2 Mariners & 2 Giants

[Melville]

I want this one:

#3 Prospect ... OF Lazaro Montes AA age 21 6-5 210 ETA 2026 ranked 29th in Top 100

Especially if C. Bloom feels his team down below can up his other tools to close to league average.

This team desperately needs a power hitting OF'er, this kid could be it.

The Seattle package is a dreadful idea.
A "could be it" outfielder who is lesser than options STL already has in the system and a pitcher who's only significant upside is a novelty act?
No thanks.

Ha!

NOT even close to being "lesser than options STL already has" which is NOTHING!

Stupid the swap for Montes when they already have Baez knocking on the door.
One is no better or worse a bet than the other - neither are sure things.
Bloom must get someone who has already has a successful MLB look.
Trading Donovan for one or two rolls of the dice would be idiocy that I would expect from Super Slo Mo - not from Bloom.

What's wrong with doubling your odds of finding that desperately needed powerhitting OFer?

And reading up on Montes, I'm definitely interested in a powerhitting OF'er w/30-40 HR power potential who's swing is being compared to
J. Alvarez and he's got a solid batting eye (re: takes walks).

If he develops into that 35-40 HR hitter w/a .350+ OB%, then he's a winner even if he KO's 150 times.

For one who labeled N. Gorman the "unicorn" when he projected to those exact stats, sans the batting eye needed to take walks and get t that .350 OB%, I'm surprised you're taking shots at this kid.

BTW, very few prospects are a "sure thing", most are just a c r a p shoot.

Remember this is B. Donovan we're trading, not a superstar player (RE: J. Soto when traded) who's brings back that "sure thing(s)".

Nothing wrong with doubling your odds.
But plenty wrong if both of the best are long odds.
Montes would be fine as the secondary asset acquired.
But the first asset in a package must have proven MLB ability - such as Miller.

If you could choose one of Alvarez or Donovan to be on the cardinals roster in two years, who would you choose?

Have you seen any reports suggesting Houston is willing to trade Alavarez for Donovan
And Alvarez is under control for 3 more seasons, not two.

[Ozziesfan41]

I’m a hockey guy, so my evaluation of MLB trades may be way off, but trading an all-star in his prime for 2 prospects, neither of which are the other team’s top prospect and neither of which are guaranteed to be MLB players is just wild…you’re trading for a lottery ticket. I won’t be happy if the return is something like this.

lol if you’re expecting a return of a teams top prospect for Donovan you will be disappointed no team is going to trade their top prospect for him he’s only an all star on a team that isn’t good and doesn’t have any better candidates. Teams only trade their top prospects for star players

[craviduce]

I’m a hockey guy, so my evaluation of MLB trades may be way off, but trading an all-star in his prime for 2 prospects, neither of which are the other team’s top prospect and neither of which are guaranteed to be MLB players is just wild…you’re trading for a lottery ticket. I won’t be happy if the return is something like this.

discovering the reality of the situation is fun....reality is the Seattle offer is within the Trade Value window for both teams. Slightly skewed towards the Cards favor, but that's how it is going this trade season. Those aren't the players I want from Seattle, but it's still a fair trade by the numbers. To get what we/you want, you have to change the trade up...include another player with Donovan...or drop the return...instead of two 50 graded prospects like Seattle is offering, try 1 55-60 prospect and 1 of $250K IFA Bonus Allotment, Comp B Round pick, or a DSL/Low A ball lottery ticket.

The Giants offer is weaker than weak... they can do a lot better.

The Yankees offer that person thinks is best is pretty bad. Dominguez isn't the return we should seek. And I don't find this return as credible from a credible source...so it doesn't matter.

[tfriede2]

I’m a hockey guy, so my evaluation of MLB trades may be way off, but trading an all-star in his prime for 2 prospects, neither of which are the other team’s top prospect and neither of which are guaranteed to be MLB players is just wild…you’re trading for a lottery ticket. I won’t be happy if the return is something like this.

lol if you’re expecting a return of a teams top prospect for Donovan you will be disappointed no team is going to trade their top prospect for him he’s only an all star on a team that isn’t good and doesn’t have any better candidates. Teams only trade their top prospects for star players

At the end of the day they’d be trading a proven, MLB all-star in his prime for 2 lottery tickets. That doesn’t seem smart, to me.

[renostl]

I want this one:

#3 Prospect ... OF Lazaro Montes AA age 21 6-5 210 ETA 2026 ranked 29th in Top 100

Especially if C. Bloom feels his team down below can up his other tools to close to league average.

This team desperately needs a power hitting OF'er, this kid could be it.

The Seattle package is a dreadful idea.
A "could be it" outfielder who is lesser than options STL already has in the system and a pitcher who's only significant upside is a novelty act?
No thanks.

Ha!

NOT even close to being "lesser than options STL already has" which is NOTHING!

Stupid the swap for Montes when they already have Baez knocking on the door.
One is no better or worse a bet than the other - neither are sure things.
Bloom must get someone who has already has a successful MLB look.
Trading Donovan for one or two rolls of the dice would be idiocy that I would expect from Super Slo Mo - not from Bloom.

What's wrong with doubling your odds of finding that desperately needed powerhitting OFer?

And reading up on Montes, I'm definitely interested in a powerhitting OF'er w/30-40 HR power potential who's swing is being compared to
J. Alvarez and he's got a solid batting eye (re: takes walks).

If he develops into that 35-40 HR hitter w/a .350+ OB%, then he's a winner even if he KO's 150 times.

For one who labeled N. Gorman the "unicorn" when he projected to those exact stats, sans the batting eye needed to take walks and get t that .350 OB%, I'm surprised you're taking shots at this kid.

BTW, very few prospects are a "sure thing", most are just a c r a p shoot.

Remember this is B. Donovan we're trading, not a superstar player (RE: J. Soto when traded) who's brings back that "sure thing(s)".

Nothing wrong with doubling your odds.
But plenty wrong if both of the best are long odds.
Montes would be fine as the secondary asset acquired.
But the first asset in a package must have proven MLB ability - such as Miller.

Redbirdrants

If those were the packages and if it was considered a good
package wouldn't it have been completed and be actual news?

I don't think they move any of the current rotation or Kade Anderson. IF they do, I'm not sure
Miller is the guy. This season wasn't healthy which has its own concerns but I'll move
to his best season of 2024. Seattle was known to suppress hitting, a prior batters eye issue.
In 2024 his home/away splits have era 1.96 to 4.07, SO/9, 10.4 to 6.4, HR 6/15.

He's young, has upside but also some concerns. I also wonder IF Seattle subtracts from their
current MLB roster how much will it take for them to make that move, more than Donnie?.
Seattle's market is small. They will need to either give more in trade than they want or
spend more than they want, get uncomfortable.

[rockondlouie]

I want this one:

#3 Prospect ... OF Lazaro Montes AA age 21 6-5 210 ETA 2026 ranked 29th in Top 100

Especially if C. Bloom feels his team down below can up his other tools to close to league average.

This team desperately needs a power hitting OF'er, this kid could be it.

The Seattle package is a dreadful idea.
A "could be it" outfielder who is lesser than options STL already has in the system and a pitcher who's only significant upside is a novelty act?
No thanks.

Ha!

NOT even close to being "lesser than options STL already has" which is NOTHING!

Stupid the swap for Montes when they already have Baez knocking on the door.
One is no better or worse a bet than the other - neither are sure things.
Bloom must get someone who has already has a successful MLB look.
Trading Donovan for one or two rolls of the dice would be idiocy that I would expect from Super Slo Mo - not from Bloom.

What's wrong with doubling your odds of finding that desperately needed powerhitting OFer?

And reading up on Montes, I'm definitely interested in a powerhitting OF'er w/30-40 HR power potential who's swing is being compared to
J. Alvarez and he's got a solid batting eye (re: takes walks).

If he develops into that 35-40 HR hitter w/a .350+ OB%, then he's a winner even if he KO's 150 times.

For one who labeled N. Gorman the "unicorn" when he projected to those exact stats, sans the batting eye needed to take walks and get t that .350 OB%, I'm surprised you're taking shots at this kid.

BTW, very few prospects are a "sure thing", most are just a c r a p shoot.

Remember this is B. Donovan we're trading, not a superstar player (RE: J. Soto when traded) who's brings back that "sure thing(s)".

Nothing wrong with doubling your odds.
But plenty wrong if both of the best are long odds.
Montes would be fine as the secondary asset acquired.
But the first asset in a package must have proven MLB ability - such as Miller.

Honestly none of us knows what the prospect(s) we get for Donny (or anyone else dealt) will do.

Why the bulk of prospects are simply suspects.

Miller (5.69 ERA last season/1.41 WHiP.....A. Pallante level! ) doesn't excite me and doesn't fit the rebuild going into his age 28 season.

I'd go big and offer Donny + JoJo + Mathews or Hence for B. Woo!

We agree about going big.
Though I disagree with Bloom about trading Donovan now, if he must go that route then Romero, Mathews, Hence, Bernal, Walker (all names I have mentioned for the past few months) should also be mixed-n-matched as needed to produce a package that would return organization transforming talent in return.

The bad news is no combination of those you mentioned, without Donovan, would bring back "organization transforming talent".

[BleedingBleu]

I’m a hockey guy, so my evaluation of MLB trades may be way off, but trading an all-star in his prime for 2 prospects, neither of which are the other team’s top prospect and neither of which are guaranteed to be MLB players is just wild…you’re trading for a lottery ticket. I won’t be happy if the return is something like this.

lol if you’re expecting a return of a teams top prospect for Donovan you will be disappointed no team is going to trade their top prospect for him he’s only an all star on a team that isn’t good and doesn’t have any better candidates. Teams only trade their top prospects for star players

At the end of the day they’d be trading a proven, MLB all-star in his prime for 2 lottery tickets. That doesn’t seem smart, to me.

He’s a Utility Player on a good team and was an Allstar because every team has to send a warm body.

Does that mean he’s bad? No
Does that mean he doesn’t have value? No
What he is though is 29 and possibly the most valuable trade chip on a rebuilding team. Even on this club, he’s a Utility player, who’s averaged roughly 123 Games over 4 Seasons

[ICCFIM2]

I’m a hockey guy, so my evaluation of MLB trades may be way off, but trading an all-star in his prime for 2 prospects, neither of which are the other team’s top prospect and neither of which are guaranteed to be MLB players is just wild…you’re trading for a lottery ticket. I won’t be happy if the return is something like this.

The big difference between hockey and MLB is the salary cap. In hockey, the value of restricted free agents and free agents is quite predictable. Therefore, a team can determine how a player fits into its payroll structure with a high degree of accuracy, not that it is not complicated. In baseball, a player like Donovan could get a 5/$80-100M contract when he is a free agent. If that is above what the Cards want to pay him, then trading him now makes sense. The teams that want him are contenders that are unlikely to want to trade off their ML roster. Hence, you get prospects. What the early trades suggest is that veterans are valued higher than their BTV than prospects, i.e. the teams trading prospects are willing to give up more perceived future value for the certainty of current production. Lottery tickets yes, but, expensive ones.

Would the Blues trade Justin Carbonneau for just any player? He is probably by far their most valuable prospect. I would equate Donovan to Jake Neighbors on the Blues. Would the Blues trade Justin Carbonneau for another teams equivalent of Jack Neighbors? Maybe, maybe not.

[82birds]

Best possible outcome for the Cardinals is for AZ to trade Marte to Seattle or the Giants first.
Be patient and see what blooms.
Once AZ trades Marte, the D'Backs will get serious in their discussions with STL about acquiring Arenado.
Once that is wrapped up, then deal Donovan if Bloom (incorrectly) feels he must.
Bottom line.
Let AZ trade Marte first - and the market value for Donovan will go up.

currently reading chat on MLBTR and the host Mark P made a good point.
as good as Marte is, AZ is NOT about to trade him within division to a rival.
very very doubtful Giants acquire Marte.

[renostl]

Best possible outcome for the Cardinals is for AZ to trade Marte to Seattle or the Giants first.
Be patient and see what blooms.
Once AZ trades Marte, the D'Backs will get serious in their discussions with STL about acquiring Arenado.
Once that is wrapped up, then deal Donovan if Bloom (incorrectly) feels he must.
Bottom line.
Let AZ trade Marte first - and the market value for Donovan will go up.

currently reading chat on MLBTR and the host Mark P made a good point.
as good as Marte is, AZ is NOT about to trade him within division to a rival.
very very doubtful Giants acquire Marte.

I actually have doubts of Marte being a player that Seattle would be
in the market for just because the way they operate.

30 minutes from now they will prove me wrong.

Az will want more than what Seattle is typically comfortable with.
Marte's contract goes until he's 37 or 38 at $16M/year. Strong for 2B.
He brings what they should want but they probably lose what they want too
and he's not cheap.

[82birds]

Best possible outcome for the Cardinals is for AZ to trade Marte to Seattle or the Giants first.
Be patient and see what blooms.
Once AZ trades Marte, the D'Backs will get serious in their discussions with STL about acquiring Arenado.
Once that is wrapped up, then deal Donovan if Bloom (incorrectly) feels he must.
Bottom line.
Let AZ trade Marte first - and the market value for Donovan will go up.

currently reading chat on MLBTR and the host Mark P made a good point.
as good as Marte is, AZ is NOT about to trade him within division to a rival.
very very doubtful Giants acquire Marte.

I actually have doubts of Marte being a player that Seattle would be
in the market for just because the way they operate.

30 minutes from now they will prove me wrong.

Az will want more than what Seattle is typically comfortable with.
Marte's contract goes until he's 37 or 38 at $16M/year. Strong for 2B.
He brings what they should want but they probably lose what they want too
and he's not cheap.

so neither seattle or sf get Marte.
good for Donovan's market

[cardstatman]

Summarizing...

1. Donovan is our best trade chip.
2. We can't get a top prospect for Donovan.
3. The Cardinals won't be 90 game pretenders who just make the playoffs, they will be real contenders, yeah, WS favorites in 3 or 4 years due to trading off all of our veteran players for half a dozen stars who aren't top prospects now but will carry the team to glory.

[ICCFIM2]

I’m a hockey guy, so my evaluation of MLB trades may be way off, but trading an all-star in his prime for 2 prospects, neither of which are the other team’s top prospect and neither of which are guaranteed to be MLB players is just wild…you’re trading for a lottery ticket. I won’t be happy if the return is something like this.

discovering the reality of the situation is fun....reality is the Seattle offer is within the Trade Value window for both teams. Slightly skewed towards the Cards favor, but that's how it is going this trade season. Those aren't the players I want from Seattle, but it's still a fair trade by the numbers. To get what we/you want, you have to change the trade up...include another player with Donovan...or drop the return...instead of two 50 graded prospects like Seattle is offering, try 1 55-60 prospect and 1 of $250K IFA Bonus Allotment, Comp B Round pick, or a DSL/Low A ball lottery ticket.

The Giants offer is weaker than weak... they can do a lot better.

The Yankees offer that person thinks is best is pretty bad. Dominguez isn't the return we should seek. And I don't find this return as credible from a credible source...so it doesn't matter.

Seattle has quite a few prospects with a 55 overall grade. Does Michael Arroyo instead of Montes, 55 with 20 BTV plus Cijntje 55 with 14 BTV plus maybe a comp pick move the needle for you? Arroyo seems to have a decent floor. But, it pushes Wetherholdt to 3B instead of 2B.

[renostl]

Best possible outcome for the Cardinals is for AZ to trade Marte to Seattle or the Giants first.
Be patient and see what blooms.
Once AZ trades Marte, the D'Backs will get serious in their discussions with STL about acquiring Arenado.
Once that is wrapped up, then deal Donovan if Bloom (incorrectly) feels he must.
Bottom line.
Let AZ trade Marte first - and the market value for Donovan will go up.

currently reading chat on MLBTR and the host Mark P made a good point.
as good as Marte is, AZ is NOT about to trade him within division to a rival.
very very doubtful Giants acquire Marte.

I actually have doubts of Marte being a player that Seattle would be
in the market for just because the way they operate.

30 minutes from now they will prove me wrong.

Az will want more than what Seattle is typically comfortable with.
Marte's contract goes until he's 37 or 38 at $16M/year. Strong for 2B.
He brings what they should want but they probably lose what they want too
and he's not cheap.

so neither seattle or sf get Marte.
good for Donovan's market

On the west coast anyway.
I wonder how large Donovan is now that the asking
price is better known. He may have been more attractive
before the tag got attached. It was once half the league.

[renostl]

I’m a hockey guy, so my evaluation of MLB trades may be way off, but trading an all-star in his prime for 2 prospects, neither of which are the other team’s top prospect and neither of which are guaranteed to be MLB players is just wild…you’re trading for a lottery ticket. I won’t be happy if the return is something like this.

discovering the reality of the situation is fun....reality is the Seattle offer is within the Trade Value window for both teams. Slightly skewed towards the Cards favor, but that's how it is going this trade season. Those aren't the players I want from Seattle, but it's still a fair trade by the numbers. To get what we/you want, you have to change the trade up...include another player with Donovan...or drop the return...instead of two 50 graded prospects like Seattle is offering, try 1 55-60 prospect and 1 of $250K IFA Bonus Allotment, Comp B Round pick, or a DSL/Low A ball lottery ticket.

The Giants offer is weaker than weak... they can do a lot better.

The Yankees offer that person thinks is best is pretty bad. Dominguez isn't the return we should seek. And I don't find this return as credible from a credible source...so it doesn't matter.

Seattle has quite a few prospects with a 55 overall grade. Does Michael Arroyo instead of Montes, 55 with 20 BTV plus Cijntje 55 with 14 BTV plus maybe a comp pick move the needle for you? Arroyo seems to have a decent floor. But, it pushes Wetherholdt to 3B instead of 2B.

It does for me with the comp pick.
I like Arroyo, RH Donovan with maybe a bit more speed and bit more power.

Some see Cijnte as a gimmick. Nothing says he will pitch with both arms. He has stuff, he
lacks size.

[Melville]

Best possible outcome for the Cardinals is for AZ to trade Marte to Seattle or the Giants first.
Be patient and see what blooms.
Once AZ trades Marte, the D'Backs will get serious in their discussions with STL about acquiring Arenado.
Once that is wrapped up, then deal Donovan if Bloom (incorrectly) feels he must.
Bottom line.
Let AZ trade Marte first - and the market value for Donovan will go up.

currently reading chat on MLBTR and the host Mark P made a good point.
as good as Marte is, AZ is NOT about to trade him within division to a rival.
very very doubtful Giants acquire Marte.

D' Backs are more aggressive and willing to take risks more so than most teams - just consider what they did in July.
That said, I certainly agree they line up better with Seattle.
Regardless, Mo should not be in a hurry.
Marte has something in common with Donovan - high demand.
Waiting for AZ to make the first move would put Bloom in an even stronger position.