Page 5 of 11
Re: Question for those not wanting to Rebuild
Posted: 07 Dec 2025 15:38 pm
by CorneliusWolfe
juan good eye wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 15:34 pm
Jatalk wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 08:13 am
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑30 Nov 2025 19:49 pm
For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?
Not against the rebuild but I want a competitive team by 2027 (if no strike) or 2028. Some of these trades need to get some mlb ready players. I have to believe the value is there. I struggle with Donovan trade but not against it.
My point to be competitive in 2028 you need core players playing this year or next.
Why chance interfering with the rebuild process and ultimately the overall success with an ultimatum to be “competitive” by 2028?
(bleep) Juan, even 2028 is too soon to compete for you? The tolerance for losing around here is approaching Oli-level.
Re: Question for those not wanting to Rebuild
Posted: 07 Dec 2025 15:43 pm
by CorneliusWolfe
dugoutrex wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 13:26 pm
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑30 Nov 2025 19:49 pm
For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?
you are asking the wrong question - trading Gray reeks of a tank job - I will not pay to go see a tank
Don’t blame you one bit. Apparently about 40K other people every day of the season agree with you too.
Re: Question for those not wanting to Rebuild
Posted: 07 Dec 2025 16:01 pm
by juan good eye
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 15:38 pm
juan good eye wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 15:34 pm
Jatalk wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 08:13 am
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑30 Nov 2025 19:49 pm
For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?
Not against the rebuild but I want a competitive team by 2027 (if no strike) or 2028. Some of these trades need to get some mlb ready players. I have to believe the value is there. I struggle with Donovan trade but not against it.
My point to be competitive in 2028 you need core players playing this year or next.
Why chance interfering with the rebuild process and ultimately the overall success with an ultimatum to be “competitive” by 2028?
(bleep) Juan, even 2028 is too soon to compete for you? The tolerance for losing around here is approaching Oli-level.
Oh FFS my tolerance for the DFIB is peaking.
If fielding a competitive team in/by 2028 is the byproduct of making the best possible decisions during the rebuild between now and then, great!
On the other hand, if good decision making processes during said rebuild are ignored by forcing Bloom to field a mediocre aka “competitive” team by 2028 then sir, why replace Mo? Why even rebuild just to continue the status quo?
Furthermore, those who support and demand a competitive team come hell or high water deserve the mediocrity they get and should not complain as the WS drought continues well into the 2030s. Many old dogs loved and defended moronic Mo up until the last couple seasons so it checks out…
Those of us who would like to see the team try to legitimately compete for a WS don’t deserve that level of average baseball.
Re: Question for those not wanting to Rebuild
Posted: 07 Dec 2025 16:23 pm
by CorneliusWolfe
juan good eye wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 16:01 pm
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 15:38 pm
juan good eye wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 15:34 pm
Jatalk wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 08:13 am
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑30 Nov 2025 19:49 pm
For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?
Not against the rebuild but I want a competitive team by 2027 (if no strike) or 2028. Some of these trades need to get some mlb ready players. I have to believe the value is there. I struggle with Donovan trade but not against it.
My point to be competitive in 2028 you need core players playing this year or next.
Why chance interfering with the rebuild process and ultimately the overall success with an ultimatum to be “competitive” by 2028?
(bleep) Juan, even 2028 is too soon to compete for you? The tolerance for losing around here is approaching Oli-level.
Oh FFS my tolerance for the DFIB is peaking.
If fielding a competitive team in/by 2028 is the byproduct of making the best possible decisions during the rebuild between now and then, great!
On the other hand, if good decision making processes during said rebuild are ignored by forcing Bloom to field a mediocre aka “competitive” team by 2028 then sir, why replace Mo? Why even rebuild just to continue the status quo?
Furthermore, those who support and demand a competitive team come hell or high water deserve the mediocrity they get and should not complain as the WS drought continues well into the 2030s. Many old dogs loved and defended moronic Mo up until the last couple seasons so it checks out…
Those of us who would like to see the team try to legitimately compete for a WS don’t deserve that level of average baseball.
I don’t know about some of the others but I don’t “demand a competitive team”, I expect the Billionaire who’s made a [shirt] ton of money off us to not be ridiculously cheap or make his new GM/POBO seem lazy or nonchalant if opportunity knocks. Nor should they mortgage the future for short term mediocrity. What idiot thinks that’s a good plan anyway?
Maybe Mo’s hands were tied. They didn’t seem to be for several years, but maybe the owner had to tie them because he kept F-ing up too much. But the new guy shouldn’t have to pay for the sins of his predecessor.
Re: Question for those not wanting to Rebuild
Posted: 07 Dec 2025 16:36 pm
by desertrat23
juan good eye wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 16:01 pm
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 15:38 pm
juan good eye wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 15:34 pm
Jatalk wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 08:13 am
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑30 Nov 2025 19:49 pm
For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?
Not against the rebuild but I want a competitive team by 2027 (if no strike) or 2028. Some of these trades need to get some mlb ready players. I have to believe the value is there. I struggle with Donovan trade but not against it.
My point to be competitive in 2028 you need core players playing this year or next.
Why chance interfering with the rebuild process and ultimately the overall success with an ultimatum to be “competitive” by 2028?
(drat) Juan, even 2028 is too soon to compete for you? The tolerance for losing around here is approaching Oli-level.
Oh FFS my tolerance for the DFIB is peaking.
If fielding a competitive team in/by 2028 is the byproduct of making the best possible decisions during the rebuild between now and then, great!
On the other hand, if good decision making processes during said rebuild are ignored by forcing Bloom to field a mediocre aka “competitive” team by 2028 then sir, why replace Mo? Why even rebuild just to continue the status quo?
Furthermore, those who support and demand a competitive team come hell or high water deserve the mediocrity they get and should not complain as the WS drought continues well into the 2030s. Many old dogs loved and defended moronic Mo up until the last couple seasons so it checks out…
Those of us who would like to see the team try to legitimately compete for a WS don’t deserve that level of average baseball.
Exactly. I'm good with a rebuild if the mindset shifts from "second wild card is good enough" to "let's win the pennant." Without a change in mentality, where they're making a serious effort to win it all, this is all a waste of time.
Re: Question for those not wanting to Rebuild
Posted: 07 Dec 2025 17:22 pm
by Jatalk
juan good eye wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 15:34 pm
Jatalk wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 08:13 am
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑30 Nov 2025 19:49 pm
For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?
Not against the rebuild but I want a competitive team by 2027 (if no strike) or 2028. Some of these trades need to get some mlb ready players. I have to believe the value is there. I struggle with Donovan trade but not against it.
My point to be competitive in 2028 you need core players playing this year or next.
Why chance interfering with the rebuild process and ultimately the overall success with an ultimatum to be “competitive” by 2028?
Honestly if you can’t rebuild a competitive team in TWO YEARS, then you need someone else doing the rebuild. Competitive does not mean WS champion but certainly in the mix for a playoff spot. I’m also assuming they have some payroll dollars to spend. At least middle of the pack payroll.
As fans we should not lower our expectations and accept an extremely long rebuild.
Re: Question for those not wanting to Rebuild
Posted: 07 Dec 2025 18:03 pm
by AZ_Cardsfan
Jatalk wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 17:22 pm
juan good eye wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 15:34 pm
Jatalk wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 08:13 am
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑30 Nov 2025 19:49 pm
For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?
Not against the rebuild but I want a competitive team by 2027 (if no strike) or 2028. Some of these trades need to get some mlb ready players. I have to believe the value is there. I struggle with Donovan trade but not against it.
My point to be competitive in 2028 you need core players playing this year or next.
Why chance interfering with the rebuild process and ultimately the overall success with an ultimatum to be “competitive” by 2028?
Honestly if you can’t rebuild a competitive team in TWO YEARS, then you need someone else doing the rebuild. Competitive does not mean WS champion but certainly in the mix for a playoff spot. I’m also assuming they have some payroll dollars to spend. At least middle of the pack payroll.
As fans we should not lower our expectations and accept an extremely long rebuild.
I am pro rebuild. But I expect the results to start to show up late next year and if strong enough spending to open up and a contender in 2027.
Re: Question for those not wanting to Rebuild
Posted: 07 Dec 2025 18:04 pm
by mattmitchl44
Jatalk wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 17:22 pm
juan good eye wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 15:34 pm
Jatalk wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 08:13 am
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑30 Nov 2025 19:49 pm
For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?
Not against the rebuild but I want a competitive team by 2027 (if no strike) or 2028. Some of these trades need to get some mlb ready players. I have to believe the value is there. I struggle with Donovan trade but not against it.
My point to be competitive in 2028 you need core players playing this year or next.
Why chance interfering with the rebuild process and ultimately the overall success with an ultimatum to be “competitive” by 2028?
Honestly if you can’t rebuild a competitive team in TWO YEARS, then you need someone else doing the rebuild. Competitive does not mean WS champion but certainly in the mix for a playoff spot. I’m also assuming they have some payroll dollars to spend. At least middle of the pack payroll.
As fans we should not lower our expectations and accept an extremely long rebuild.
Maybe we should raise our expectations for "competitive" to be higher than "in the mix for a playoff spot."
Re: Question for those not wanting to Rebuild
Posted: 07 Dec 2025 19:34 pm
by Stlcardsblues
dugoutrex wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 13:26 pm
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑30 Nov 2025 19:49 pm
For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?
you are asking the wrong question - trading Gray reeks of a tank job - I will not pay to go see a tank
I fault no one who elects to sit out attending games during the rebuild. Fans electing to not attend games doesn’t mean rebuilding is the wrong path.
Re: Question for those not wanting to Rebuild
Posted: 07 Dec 2025 20:34 pm
by ecleme22
Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 21:51 pm
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 20:58 pm
Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 20:44 pm
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 19:05 pm
Bushiro wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 18:48 pm
nighthawk wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 08:32 am
People don't want a rebuild? Fascinating.
When the Cardinals have constantly put a quality team on the field for a few decades now....littered with stars and a few hall of farmers...why would they want a rebuild...obviously the position this franchise is in right now calls for one....but the same people not happy about a rebuild... are the same ones who seen this coming for awhile now... because of Mozeliak and Dewitt ....the cards should not be in this position to have to rebuild....hell they didn't even want to use the term rebuild....Mozeliak calling it a reset....give me a break....and by the declining attendance numbers....it's just not a few on this board that's displeased
This is 100% my stance. I despise DeWitt and Mo put this franchise in this situation. The team is in this situation because of their stubbornness and arrogance. With that said, they are here and this has taken a decade to destroy, it’s not being fixed in one offseason.
I don’t fault those frustrated with Mo and DeWitt for putting the Cardinals in this situation. No one should be happy or accepting of the state they put this franchise in. That’s different from those of us who have looked at this realistically and see the damage they have done and see this will take time to rebuild and correct.
There is no quick fixes. They tried that and it stuck this franchise in four years of mediocrity wasting valuable time to fix it.
Blooms moves might not be the correct ones, times will tell. This is now on Bloom to show he can correct this.
I agree with most, except a quick fix is possible. They havent tried quality quick fixes. They've tried mediocre fixes and been left with a mediocre product.
What is your quality quick fix?
Spend some money and get a couple of elite players. Make a trade for another. Trade some redundant pieces. Money for pillars combined with the young complimentary pieces could be a quick fix.
Every rebuild includes lowering payroll.
Re: Question for those not wanting to Rebuild
Posted: 07 Dec 2025 20:51 pm
by ScotchMIrish
We have no choice but to rebuild. Gray, Arenado and Contreras get traded. I'd keep Donovan but it doesn't appear that will happen.
We are revenue sharing. No choice.
Re: Question for those not wanting to Rebuild
Posted: 07 Dec 2025 21:47 pm
by Ozziesfan41
ecleme22 wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 20:34 pm
Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 21:51 pm
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 20:58 pm
Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 20:44 pm
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 19:05 pm
Bushiro wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 18:48 pm
nighthawk wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 08:32 am
People don't want a rebuild? Fascinating.
When the Cardinals have constantly put a quality team on the field for a few decades now....littered with stars and a few hall of farmers...why would they want a rebuild...obviously the position this franchise is in right now calls for one....but the same people not happy about a rebuild... are the same ones who seen this coming for awhile now... because of Mozeliak and Dewitt ....the cards should not be in this position to have to rebuild....hell they didn't even want to use the term rebuild....Mozeliak calling it a reset....give me a break....and by the declining attendance numbers....it's just not a few on this board that's displeased
This is 100% my stance. I despise DeWitt and Mo put this franchise in this situation. The team is in this situation because of their stubbornness and arrogance. With that said, they are here and this has taken a decade to destroy, it’s not being fixed in one offseason.
I don’t fault those frustrated with Mo and DeWitt for putting the Cardinals in this situation. No one should be happy or accepting of the state they put this franchise in. That’s different from those of us who have looked at this realistically and see the damage they have done and see this will take time to rebuild and correct.
There is no quick fixes. They tried that and it stuck this franchise in four years of mediocrity wasting valuable time to fix it.
Blooms moves might not be the correct ones, times will tell. This is now on Bloom to show he can correct this.
I agree with most, except a quick fix is possible. They havent tried quality quick fixes. They've tried mediocre fixes and been left with a mediocre product.
What is your quality quick fix?
Spend some money and get a couple of elite players. Make a trade for another. Trade some redundant pieces. Money for pillars combined with the young complimentary pieces could be a quick fix.
Every rebuild includes lowering payroll.
lol just pick up three elite players easy!
Re: Question for those not wanting to Rebuild
Posted: 07 Dec 2025 22:20 pm
by ecleme22
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 21:47 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 20:34 pm
Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 21:51 pm
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 20:58 pm
Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 20:44 pm
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 19:05 pm
Bushiro wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 18:48 pm
nighthawk wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 08:32 am
People don't want a rebuild? Fascinating.
When the Cardinals have constantly put a quality team on the field for a few decades now....littered with stars and a few hall of farmers...why would they want a rebuild...obviously the position this franchise is in right now calls for one....but the same people not happy about a rebuild... are the same ones who seen this coming for awhile now... because of Mozeliak and Dewitt ....the cards should not be in this position to have to rebuild....hell they didn't even want to use the term rebuild....Mozeliak calling it a reset....give me a break....and by the declining attendance numbers....it's just not a few on this board that's displeased
This is 100% my stance. I despise DeWitt and Mo put this franchise in this situation. The team is in this situation because of their stubbornness and arrogance. With that said, they are here and this has taken a decade to destroy, it’s not being fixed in one offseason.
I don’t fault those frustrated with Mo and DeWitt for putting the Cardinals in this situation. No one should be happy or accepting of the state they put this franchise in. That’s different from those of us who have looked at this realistically and see the damage they have done and see this will take time to rebuild and correct.
There is no quick fixes. They tried that and it stuck this franchise in four years of mediocrity wasting valuable time to fix it.
Blooms moves might not be the correct ones, times will tell. This is now on Bloom to show he can correct this.
I agree with most, except a quick fix is possible. They havent tried quality quick fixes. They've tried mediocre fixes and been left with a mediocre product.
What is your quality quick fix?
Spend some money and get a couple of elite players. Make a trade for another. Trade some redundant pieces. Money for pillars combined with the young complimentary pieces could be a quick fix.
Every rebuild includes lowering payroll.
lol just pick up three elite players easy!
There are just so many ppl who have no idea what the [fork] is going on.
I haven’t seen a cards’ rebuild as an adult. I’m 46 years old.
But I watch baseball and know what the [fork] it is. lol
Re: Question for those not wanting to Rebuild
Posted: 08 Dec 2025 07:26 am
by sikeston bulldog2
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 21:47 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 20:34 pm
Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 21:51 pm
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 20:58 pm
Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 20:44 pm
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 19:05 pm
Bushiro wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 18:48 pm
nighthawk wrote: ↑01 Dec 2025 08:32 am
People don't want a rebuild? Fascinating.
When the Cardinals have constantly put a quality team on the field for a few decades now....littered with stars and a few hall of farmers...why would they want a rebuild...obviously the position this franchise is in right now calls for one....but the same people not happy about a rebuild... are the same ones who seen this coming for awhile now... because of Mozeliak and Dewitt ....the cards should not be in this position to have to rebuild....hell they didn't even want to use the term rebuild....Mozeliak calling it a reset....give me a break....and by the declining attendance numbers....it's just not a few on this board that's displeased
This is 100% my stance. I despise DeWitt and Mo put this franchise in this situation. The team is in this situation because of their stubbornness and arrogance. With that said, they are here and this has taken a decade to destroy, it’s not being fixed in one offseason.
I don’t fault those frustrated with Mo and DeWitt for putting the Cardinals in this situation. No one should be happy or accepting of the state they put this franchise in. That’s different from those of us who have looked at this realistically and see the damage they have done and see this will take time to rebuild and correct.
There is no quick fixes. They tried that and it stuck this franchise in four years of mediocrity wasting valuable time to fix it.
Blooms moves might not be the correct ones, times will tell. This is now on Bloom to show he can correct this.
I agree with most, except a quick fix is possible. They havent tried quality quick fixes. They've tried mediocre fixes and been left with a mediocre product.
What is your quality quick fix?
Spend some money and get a couple of elite players. Make a trade for another. Trade some redundant pieces. Money for pillars combined with the young complimentary pieces could be a quick fix.
Every rebuild includes lowering payroll.
lol just pick up three elite players easy!
As I pull into the MLB drive thru window, i order thee number one- 3 studs-2 prospects 1 ptbnl. Easy.
Re: Question for those not wanting to Rebuild
Posted: 12 Dec 2025 10:57 am
by CCard
Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 09:57 am
CCard wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 08:12 amThey went almost two decades as a perennial contender and won two championships while making the world series 4 times and the NLCS also. I'll take that approach over a chance to "be good" every 3 or 4 years sandwiched by that "mediocrity" you speak of. LOL
And how did they accomplish all that? By drafting and developing, which allowed them to supplement those homegrown players with more established players that they traded for or signed. They were also very good at identifying “bargain bin,” or whatever you want to call it, talent, that they could acquire on the cheap, but who would thrive under the team’s philosophy.
And let’s be honest….the main reason they had that success is because they (Mo, actually) drafted Albert Pujols, who they then (very wisely) locked up at a very young age. While that was the largest contract of its time then, he was still incredibly affordable, which gave them the flexibility to keep their payroll relatively low so that they could spend money and take on contracts when needed. Yadi Molina is another guy that I shouldn’t even have to mention.
But you also had a lot of their guys who they drafted and developed. JD Drew was one. Eli Marrero another. They got a little pricey, so they traded him for lesser players (Marquis and King), as well as a valuable prospect. And we all know how the prospect they acquired would go on to contribute to the success of the team over the next 15 years or so. But even guys like King and Marquis did a lot to solidify those teams as affordable role players. Placido Polanco and Bud Smith are a couple of other homegrown players that they were able to use in order to acquire Scott Rosen, when they were at a point that they could add a star to put them over the top. Similarly, Adam Kennedy was another young, homegrown player, that they were able to trade for a guy like Jim Edmonds. Matt Morris was a homegrown talent that was solid presence in the rotation for years and had some ace-like years with the team. Matt Carpenter was a guy that carried the team after Pujols left. We don’t win a WS in 2011 without David Freese or Jaime Garcia. One was drafted and developed, the other was a young, unproven player that we got for trading a beloved veteran in Jim Edmonds. Allen Craig , Skip Schumaker, Lance Lynn, Jon Jones, Michael Wacha, and Daniel Descalso were all solid players that kept as at a great base to contend for as many years as we did.
But yea, basically all the success we had for the last 30 years was due to drafting and developing, along with top third to top 10 payroll flexibility. The same thing they’re trying to get back to. And that success didn’t happen overnight. They had some very bad years in the 90s. They also had some mini rebuilds after the 2006 World Series, and also in the mid 2010s.
They got extremely lucky with signing a hurt Chris Carpenter and trading for a young minor league pitcher from Atlanta, Adam Wainwright. Without those two there are no championships. But they got Edmonds from the Angels and he starred for them. They have always had pretty good catchers, but getting Molina really made them strong up the middle with Edmonds in Center. A Molina doesn't come around often. Then of course they brought up Albert because of an injury to Bonilla and he stayed. They signed a little shortstop by the name of David Eckstein that played bigger than he should have. And Larry Walker. So it takes a lot more than drafting and developing. It takes acquiring talent at the major league level also.
Re: Question for those not wanting to Rebuild
Posted: 12 Dec 2025 10:58 am
by CCard
desertrat23 wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 09:55 am
CCard wrote: ↑07 Dec 2025 08:09 am
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑04 Dec 2025 20:43 pm
CCard wrote: ↑04 Dec 2025 18:26 pm
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 15:28 pm
CCard wrote: ↑02 Dec 2025 06:56 am
Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑30 Nov 2025 19:49 pm
For those anti trading Gray and entering a rebuild I have a question. What realistic moves would you have made this offseason to make the Cardinals serious World Series contenders in 2026?
To begin with, I imagine we have a difference of opinion on "serious contender". My opinion is that if you make the playoffs then you're a serious contender. If you mean building some pie in the sky juggernaut basically through the draft and then supplementing with a high dollar talent, then we just can't agree on how to run an organization "for the fans". We've seen in real time how massive losing can allow for some young premium talent draft picks that possibly can lift a club for a few seasons before they have to get paid or traded. Very few of these scenarios end in a championship. Instead they wind up perpetual losers. Now on to the question:
I have no problem with the Gray deal if it yields at least one decent starter. Time will tell on that. They definitely need at least one more dependable top tier starter. Someone that can hold the other team down to a couple of runs. They definitely need improvement in the bullpen. At least two shutdown relievers and it wouldn't hurt to have three. They definitely need someone (probably left field) that can provide 100 rbi's and be an imposing presence in the lineup. Maybe even mentor Walker a bit. That's what it would take to be a playoff contender. Move the payroll up to 190 - 200 million would easily get this done. They will never ever be the kind of team that the Dodgers, Yanks, Phillies, Toronto's etc are. They simply won't pay that kind of salary. Could they be? Of course, they're owned by billionaires. DeWitt and the others could easily spend 240 - 250 million without even noticing it. They won't because they're cheap. Simple as that.
A serious contender is a team who is built to win the central and make a run at a deep playoff run.
It is not built to try for last playoff spot and hope for everything to break right to avoid getting swept in the first round. Cincinnati got in but was not a serious contender. You can build a serious playoff contender without spending at the level of the Dodgers.
It’s more difficult for smaller market teams, but can be done.
We just disagree. Getting to the playoffs is priority number one. If you clinch the playoffs then you try to win the division. Playoffs every year. That's the goal. Making some pie in the sky juggernaut is only optional for the biggest spenders who can buy premium talent and plug in more premium talent.
Completely disagree. Your approach was tried by them and led to mediocrity. Build it correctly now. Had they done it three years ago they could have been contenders now.
LOL...They won multiple championships and were a perennial contender for nearly two decades under "My approach".
15 years ago. No more living in the past.
We learn from the past so that we may or may not repeat it. Did you learn that in history class?