Sammy Sosa . . . HOF?

[butsir01]

Hall of Cork

[ScotchMIrish]

No to the roid boys. It's a disgrace that Ortiz got in.

It is a disgrace only that he got in before Bonds. After all Bonds is the greatest hitter of his generation.

Bonds is the greatest cheater in the history of baseball.

Bonds is the greatest hitter of his generation and a top 10 of all time. But you keep on stumping for Rose.

The outcome of thousands of games were altered by roids. Rose was banned for life. Some of the roid boys continued to work in MLB jobs after leaving the game and I don't remember Bonds and his buddies getting banned for life.

You have zero evidence to back up your first statement. Why would Bonds be banned for life? After all he did what he did to make himself a better player. By being a better player it made the game better.

If you think there is no evidence of rampant roid use then there is no need to continue the conversation.

There are fellas who get busted today…….I don’t see them putting up steroid era stats…..so again the all-time Elites who might have roided would be HOFers regardless AND if most of the league was roiding then its a wash..

Maris' home run record stood for 37 years until 2 men broke it in the same year. Both were roid boys. Roids rigged more games in baseball than anything in any sport.

[makesnosense]

No to the roid boys. It's a disgrace that Ortiz got in.

It is a disgrace only that he got in before Bonds. After all Bonds is the greatest hitter of his generation.

Bonds is the greatest cheater in the history of baseball.

Bonds is the greatest hitter of his generation and a top 10 of all time. But you keep on stumping for Rose.

The outcome of thousands of games were altered by roids. Rose was banned for life. Some of the roid boys continued to work in MLB jobs after leaving the game and I don't remember Bonds and his buddies getting banned for life.

You have zero evidence to back up your first statement. Why would Bonds be banned for life? After all he did what he did to make himself a better player. By being a better player it made the game better.

If you think there is no evidence of rampant roid use then there is no need to continue the conversation.

Got it. You have no evidence thousands of games were altered because of steroid use. But we knew that.

[Goldfan]

No to the roid boys. It's a disgrace that Ortiz got in.

It is a disgrace only that he got in before Bonds. After all Bonds is the greatest hitter of his generation.

Bonds is the greatest cheater in the history of baseball.

Bonds is the greatest hitter of his generation and a top 10 of all time. But you keep on stumping for Rose.

The outcome of thousands of games were altered by roids. Rose was banned for life. Some of the roid boys continued to work in MLB jobs after leaving the game and I don't remember Bonds and his buddies getting banned for life.

You have zero evidence to back up your first statement. Why would Bonds be banned for life? After all he did what he did to make himself a better player. By being a better player it made the game better.

If you think there is no evidence of rampant roid use then there is no need to continue the conversation.

There are fellas who get busted today…….I don’t see them putting up steroid era stats…..so again the all-time Elites who might have roided would be HOFers regardless AND if most of the league was roiding then its a wash..

Maris' home run record stood for 37 years until 2 men broke it in the same year. Both were roid boys. Roids rigged more games in baseball than anything in any sport.

Both Mantle and Maris were pacing to over 60 in ‘61. Mantle got injured in Sept and ended up with 54. What do you think was being used in that Yankee clubhouse? Who knows……

[Bushiro]

Without a doubt

600 home runs and 1660+ RBI, 230+ stolen bases, another 400 + doubles and triples, 1500 runs scored, 2400 hits, nearly 1000 walks, an MVP, 6 top 10 finishes, 6 silver sluggers and the most astounding run of home run hitting in baseball history: 66, 63, 50, 64 in 4 consecutive seasons. The only player in MLB history to have 3 60 home-run season. Ruth, Judge, Maris and Raleigh have one. McGwire has 2. Sosa leads at 3.

The guy averaged 112 RBI a season. In 2021 he slashed .328 / .437 / .737 / 1.174 hit 64 home runs, scored 146 runs, had 103 extra base hit, drove in 160 RBI and had 425 total bases, all while be intentionally walked a major league leading 37 times and had over a 10 WAR. He had a 203 OPS+ meaning he was better than twice as good as the average MLB hitter.

For those that think it was just the steroids... before the 1998 breakout, he averaged 34 home runs, 26 steals and 100 RBI per season for the previous five years, was a Silver Slugger, All-Star and MVP vote getter three times. He was a (drat) fine, hell of a ballplayer his entire career.

He competed in the era he competed, the same as everyone else in that era, and put up undeniably hall of fame numbers.

I agree....sosa also never tested positive....arod...Manny ..Cano and others did....Ortiz's name was on a leaked report like sosa's and he's in....but I also can't believe... a clean player like Jim Edmonds... can't even get 5 percent to stay on the ballot....

[ecleme22]

I'm just happy the Cubs org has finally embraced Sosa the way that the Giants embrace Bonds and the Cards/A's embrace McGwire.

Sosa did something that we may never see in the game again: Sosa, with the Rangers in 2007, hit his 600th HR off the Cubs, Jason Marquis. Marquis was wearing Sosa's 21.

We may never see a player hit his 500th or 600th off the team who he had the most homeruns with, off a pitcher donning their old number.

[An Old Friend]

Without a doubt

600 home runs and 1660+ RBI, 230+ stolen bases, another 400 + doubles and triples, 1500 runs scored, 2400 hits, nearly 1000 walks, an MVP, 6 top 10 finishes, 6 silver sluggers and the most astounding run of home run hitting in baseball history: 66, 63, 50, 64 in 4 consecutive seasons. The only player in MLB history to have 3 60 home-run season. Ruth, Judge, Maris and Raleigh have one. McGwire has 2. Sosa leads at 3.

The guy averaged 112 RBI a season. In 2021 he slashed .328 / .437 / .737 / 1.174 hit 64 home runs, scored 146 runs, had 103 extra base hit, drove in 160 RBI and had 425 total bases, all while be intentionally walked a major league leading 37 times and had over a 10 WAR. He had a 203 OPS+ meaning he was better than twice as good as the average MLB hitter.

For those that think it was just the steroids... before the 1998 breakout, he averaged 34 home runs, 26 steals and 100 RBI per season for the previous five years, was a Silver Slugger, All-Star and MVP vote getter three times. He was a (drat) fine, hell of a ballplayer his entire career.

He competed in the era he competed, the same as everyone else in that era, and put up undeniably hall of fame numbers.

I agree....sosa also never tested positive....arod...Manny ..Cano and others did....Ortiz's name was on a leaked report like sosa's and he's in....but I also can't believe... a clean player like Jim Edmonds... can't even get 5 percent to stay on the ballot....

Edmonds got squeezed by a very crowded ballot. Him getting under 5% had nearly zero to do with his legitimacy as a candidate.

[ecleme22]

Without a doubt

600 home runs and 1660+ RBI, 230+ stolen bases, another 400 + doubles and triples, 1500 runs scored, 2400 hits, nearly 1000 walks, an MVP, 6 top 10 finishes, 6 silver sluggers and the most astounding run of home run hitting in baseball history: 66, 63, 50, 64 in 4 consecutive seasons. The only player in MLB history to have 3 60 home-run season. Ruth, Judge, Maris and Raleigh have one. McGwire has 2. Sosa leads at 3.

The guy averaged 112 RBI a season. In 2021 he slashed .328 / .437 / .737 / 1.174 hit 64 home runs, scored 146 runs, had 103 extra base hit, drove in 160 RBI and had 425 total bases, all while be intentionally walked a major league leading 37 times and had over a 10 WAR. He had a 203 OPS+ meaning he was better than twice as good as the average MLB hitter.

For those that think it was just the steroids... before the 1998 breakout, he averaged 34 home runs, 26 steals and 100 RBI per season for the previous five years, was a Silver Slugger, All-Star and MVP vote getter three times. He was a (drat) fine, hell of a ballplayer his entire career.

He competed in the era he competed, the same as everyone else in that era, and put up undeniably hall of fame numbers.

I agree....sosa also never tested positive....arod...Manny ..Cano and others did....Ortiz's name was on a leaked report like sosa's and he's in....but I also can't believe... a clean player like Jim Edmonds... can't even get 5 percent to stay on the ballot....

Edmonds got squeezed by a very crowded ballot. Him getting under 5% had nearly zero to do with his legitimacy as a candidate.

Edmonds was all about he numbers. If he had 2k hits and 400 hr, he would’ve been in already

[Quincy Varnish]

Would not surprise me if a couple of Clemen's buddies, on the Astros, were juicing too. A couple little guys with quite a bit of power, for their size. I'm convinced Kenny Rogers was juicing when the Cards took them down in 2006. I watched him throw nothing but trash for years with the Rangers. He never touched 90mph the entire time. Then suddenly, in his early 40's, he's hitting the low 90's.

Jeff Bagwell
Ken Caminiti
Richard Hidalgo
Luis Gonzalez

Biggio didn’t participate and from what I understand, was always clean.

Jeff Kent eventually made his way to Houston but started before he got there.
Age 24-29: .779 OPS, 106 OPS+
Age 30-37: .908 OPS, 136 OPS+

Interesting theory, but despite the blind ignorance of some - protection matters. Kent hit in garbage lineups early in his career, but with powerhouses on the Giants and Astros.

Although we will never know the truth, I think this is a case of expanding reasonable suspicion beyond known facts - or even the quiet stir of rumor.

Kent was a dick to the media, and the majority of his teammates. I’m more inclined to believe this is why he’s not in the HOF, rather than what you suggest.

[An Old Friend]

Without a doubt

600 home runs and 1660+ RBI, 230+ stolen bases, another 400 + doubles and triples, 1500 runs scored, 2400 hits, nearly 1000 walks, an MVP, 6 top 10 finishes, 6 silver sluggers and the most astounding run of home run hitting in baseball history: 66, 63, 50, 64 in 4 consecutive seasons. The only player in MLB history to have 3 60 home-run season. Ruth, Judge, Maris and Raleigh have one. McGwire has 2. Sosa leads at 3.

The guy averaged 112 RBI a season. In 2021 he slashed .328 / .437 / .737 / 1.174 hit 64 home runs, scored 146 runs, had 103 extra base hit, drove in 160 RBI and had 425 total bases, all while be intentionally walked a major league leading 37 times and had over a 10 WAR. He had a 203 OPS+ meaning he was better than twice as good as the average MLB hitter.

For those that think it was just the steroids... before the 1998 breakout, he averaged 34 home runs, 26 steals and 100 RBI per season for the previous five years, was a Silver Slugger, All-Star and MVP vote getter three times. He was a (drat) fine, hell of a ballplayer his entire career.

He competed in the era he competed, the same as everyone else in that era, and put up undeniably hall of fame numbers.

I agree....sosa also never tested positive....arod...Manny ..Cano and others did....Ortiz's name was on a leaked report like sosa's and he's in....but I also can't believe... a clean player like Jim Edmonds... can't even get 5 percent to stay on the ballot....

Edmonds got squeezed by a very crowded ballot. Him getting under 5% had nearly zero to do with his legitimacy as a candidate.

Edmonds was all about he numbers. If he had 2k hits and 400 hr, he would’ve been in already

So you’re arguing that those numbers would have pushed him past Sammy Sosa on the ballot?

[sikeston bulldog2]

Without a doubt

600 home runs and 1660+ RBI, 230+ stolen bases, another 400 + doubles and triples, 1500 runs scored, 2400 hits, nearly 1000 walks, an MVP, 6 top 10 finishes, 6 silver sluggers and the most astounding run of home run hitting in baseball history: 66, 63, 50, 64 in 4 consecutive seasons. The only player in MLB history to have 3 60 home-run season. Ruth, Judge, Maris and Raleigh have one. McGwire has 2. Sosa leads at 3.

The guy averaged 112 RBI a season. In 2021 he slashed .328 / .437 / .737 / 1.174 hit 64 home runs, scored 146 runs, had 103 extra base hit, drove in 160 RBI and had 425 total bases, all while be intentionally walked a major league leading 37 times and had over a 10 WAR. He had a 203 OPS+ meaning he was better than twice as good as the average MLB hitter.

For those that think it was just the steroids... before the 1998 breakout, he averaged 34 home runs, 26 steals and 100 RBI per season for the previous five years, was a Silver Slugger, All-Star and MVP vote getter three times. He was a (drat) fine, hell of a ballplayer his entire career.

He competed in the era he competed, the same as everyone else in that era, and put up undeniably hall of fame numbers.

I agree....sosa also never tested positive....arod...Manny ..Cano and others did....Ortiz's name was on a leaked report like sosa's and he's in....but I also can't believe... a clean player like Jim Edmonds... can't even get 5 percent to stay on the ballot....

Edmonds got squeezed by a very crowded ballot. Him getting under 5% had nearly zero to do with his legitimacy as a candidate.

Seems to me. Yes squeezed. The voters had so many votes to spread around. By the time they got to JE they were low on votes. Based on tallies, the others had very high totals, leaving JE with a very low percentile.

[makesnosense]

Without a doubt

600 home runs and 1660+ RBI, 230+ stolen bases, another 400 + doubles and triples, 1500 runs scored, 2400 hits, nearly 1000 walks, an MVP, 6 top 10 finishes, 6 silver sluggers and the most astounding run of home run hitting in baseball history: 66, 63, 50, 64 in 4 consecutive seasons. The only player in MLB history to have 3 60 home-run season. Ruth, Judge, Maris and Raleigh have one. McGwire has 2. Sosa leads at 3.

The guy averaged 112 RBI a season. In 2021 he slashed .328 / .437 / .737 / 1.174 hit 64 home runs, scored 146 runs, had 103 extra base hit, drove in 160 RBI and had 425 total bases, all while be intentionally walked a major league leading 37 times and had over a 10 WAR. He had a 203 OPS+ meaning he was better than twice as good as the average MLB hitter.

For those that think it was just the steroids... before the 1998 breakout, he averaged 34 home runs, 26 steals and 100 RBI per season for the previous five years, was a Silver Slugger, All-Star and MVP vote getter three times. He was a (drat) fine, hell of a ballplayer his entire career.

He competed in the era he competed, the same as everyone else in that era, and put up undeniably hall of fame numbers.

I agree....sosa also never tested positive....arod...Manny ..Cano and others did....Ortiz's name was on a leaked report like sosa's and he's in....but I also can't believe... a clean player like Jim Edmonds... can't even get 5 percent to stay on the ballot....

Wait a minute. You don't think Edmonds was juiced?

[sikeston bulldog2]

Without a doubt

600 home runs and 1660+ RBI, 230+ stolen bases, another 400 + doubles and triples, 1500 runs scored, 2400 hits, nearly 1000 walks, an MVP, 6 top 10 finishes, 6 silver sluggers and the most astounding run of home run hitting in baseball history: 66, 63, 50, 64 in 4 consecutive seasons. The only player in MLB history to have 3 60 home-run season. Ruth, Judge, Maris and Raleigh have one. McGwire has 2. Sosa leads at 3.

The guy averaged 112 RBI a season. In 2021 he slashed .328 / .437 / .737 / 1.174 hit 64 home runs, scored 146 runs, had 103 extra base hit, drove in 160 RBI and had 425 total bases, all while be intentionally walked a major league leading 37 times and had over a 10 WAR. He had a 203 OPS+ meaning he was better than twice as good as the average MLB hitter.

For those that think it was just the steroids... before the 1998 breakout, he averaged 34 home runs, 26 steals and 100 RBI per season for the previous five years, was a Silver Slugger, All-Star and MVP vote getter three times. He was a (drat) fine, hell of a ballplayer his entire career.

He competed in the era he competed, the same as everyone else in that era, and put up undeniably hall of fame numbers.

I agree....sosa also never tested positive....arod...Manny ..Cano and others did....Ortiz's name was on a leaked report like sosa's and he's in....but I also can't believe... a clean player like Jim Edmonds... can't even get 5 percent to stay on the ballot....

Wait a minute. You don't think Edmonds was juiced?

Wait a New York minute. Anything can change. Do you believe he was using?

[Bomber1]

No to the roid boys. It's a disgrace that Ortiz got in.

It is a disgrace only that he got in before Bonds. After all Bonds is the greatest hitter of his generation.

Bonds is the greatest cheater in the history of baseball.

Bonds is the greatest hitter of his generation and a top 10 of all time. But you keep on stumping for Rose.

The outcome of thousands of games were altered by roids. Rose was banned for life. Some of the roid boys continued to work in MLB jobs after leaving the game and I don't remember Bonds and his buddies getting banned for life.

You have zero evidence to back up your first statement. Why would Bonds be banned for life? After all he did what he did to make himself a better player. By being a better player it made the game better.

Your last sentence proves Scotch’s first statement.

[rockondlouie]

After all these years it still amazes how some just don't get what using steroids does to make a player (hitter, runner and pitcher) better than what they NATURALLY would be.

I don’t get it. I can see brute force. I can see it in football. I can see it helping runners who run . I can see throwing longer more often.

I don’t see how it helps the actual art of hitting a baseball. Or laying off sweepers. Pitch recognition. That I don’t see.

Bigger, Stronger, Faster.............players already blessed BDog w/amazing hand-eye coordination that has allowed them to rise to the top (re: major leagues)being able to hit a baseball better than 99.9% of the world's population.

Combine that natural talent w/a Bigger, Stronger, Faster human being and you get an unnatural response.

Re:
East Germany & Russian's in the Olympics before steroids were banned.

Laying off sweepers, pitch recognition, ect....they already had or they would've never made it to MLB.

Now make them artificially BIGGER & STRONGER and well..............think massive BIG MAC, pumped up BAR-ROID and 165 lb S. Sosa balloning up to 225 lbs.

Also helps pitcher throw harder (re: BIGGER & STRONGER) as well as recover quicker.

Steroids is CHEATING, there is no gray area.

[Bomber1]

After all these years it still amazes how some just don't get what using steroids does to make a player (hitter, runner and pitcher) better than what they NATURALLY would be.

I don’t get it. I can see brute force. I can see it in football. I can see it helping runners who run . I can see throwing longer more often.

I don’t see how it helps the actual art of hitting a baseball. Or laying off sweepers. Pitch recognition. That I don’t see.

Bigger, Stronger, Faster.............players already blessed BDog w/amazing hand-eye coordination that has allowed them to rise to the top (re: major leagues)being able to hit a baseball better than 99.9% of the world's population.

Combine that natural talent w/a Bigger, Stronger, Faster human being and you get an unnatural response.

Re:
East Germany & Russian's in the Olympics before steroids were banned.

Laying off sweepers, pitch recognition, ect....they already had or they would've never made it to MLB.

Now make them artificially BIGGER & STRONGER and well..............think massive BIG MAC, pumped up BAR-ROID and 165 lb S. Sosa balloning up to 225 lbs.

Also helps pitcher throw harder (re: BIGGER & STRONGER) as well as recover quicker.

Steroids is CHEATING, there is no gray area.

Great post and I agree.