STLtoday.com

Not this front office. They have ONE concern; to make as much money as they can. Winning has been off the table for years. If they were concerned about that, they wouldn't bring back a manager who has managed over 3 of the worst years of Cardinals baseball in decades, only because they don't want to pay to make him go away. They want you to go to the game, hit up ballpark village before & after, spend some money on parking, and that's it.
Winning? Not a priority for this owner in years.

FrankTheTank wrote: ↑26 Nov 2025 11:28 am Not this front office. They have ONE concern; to make as much money as they can. Winning has been off the table for years. If they were concerned about that, they wouldn't bring back a manager who has managed over 3 of the worst years of Cardinals baseball in decades, only because they don't want to pay to make him go away. They want you to go to the game, hit up ballpark village before & after, spend some money on parking, and that's it.
Winning? Not a priority for this owner in years.

Well, it does seem to be an effective business model…

They understand the market….

FrankTheTank wrote: ↑26 Nov 2025 11:28 am Not this front office. They have ONE concern; to make as much money as they can. Winning has been off the table for years. If they were concerned about that, they wouldn't bring back a manager who has managed over 3 of the worst years of Cardinals baseball in decades, only because they don't want to pay to make him go away. They want you to go to the game, hit up ballpark village before & after, spend some money on parking, and that's it.
Winning? Not a priority for this owner in years.

No offense, but that seems a bit dramatic. They just paid $20 million for a team to take Gray off their hands. They are going to pay a bunch more when and if they can trade Arenado. Oli makes a tiny fraction of that, so it’s not in any way going to set them back much financially. Plus, they’ve done it in the recent past with other managers.

Maybe the Cardinals and Bloom feel like he’s the right guy for the job. Or maybe Bloom thinks he could be, but wants to work with him for a year to find out before making a decision either way.

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:01 pm

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:59 pm It can make you mad and I understand the viewpoint, but the Cardinals aren't trying to compete for a World Series next year. Might as well accept it.

Yep.
It's a rebuild at this point.
Sad.

What's sad is that you don't get it.

The 2026 team isn't gonna win the WS. No amount of reasonable free-agent adds will significantly improve those odds.

The Cardinals are not the Dodgers or Yankees. They lack the resources to compete for the World Series every year. Fact is: If the Cardinals try to nominally "compete" every year, they end up never really competing for the World Series at all.

I don't like it any better than you do, but that's the truth.

The next best strategy is to rebuild with young players, then when you're close to critical mass and have plenty of MO's famous "dry powder," you add some free agents and go for it.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑26 Nov 2025 08:30 am

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑26 Nov 2025 08:21 am He’s just a thought. Andy Pages might be a better option. Experience in Oct and still very young.

Pages would definitely be a lot better. But his value in BTV is +32.5 vs. Hernandez being a -11.3. So obtaining Pages vs. Hernandez is a completely different proposition.

We also were going to need some pre-existing October experience when we finally get into October or the young and inexperienced guys will probably fall flat to the teams with more experience regardless of how much fwar talent they have in the regular season. 30 somethings routinely win playoff games.

Eventually they are going to need to sign some more expensive and talented veterans. Right now the young players can learn from a few 1 yr./$10 million veterans in 2026.

That's a big maybe my friend.
Temporary employees are quite aware of their temporary status.
They are not the same. Some are great some have zero buy in.

They do have coaching to help on the position player side, not so much on the pitching
side. Since they are going this young, I'd give Kyle Gibson a call and see if he'd like
to coach. Or someone like him. Get a consistent voice versus random temps.
jmo.

Cincy was in the playoffs with 83 wins. It's embarrassing STL fans can't expect 83 wins every year. Sounds like we're ready for new owners.

Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑26 Nov 2025 12:04 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 13:01 pm

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:59 pm It can make you mad and I understand the viewpoint, but the Cardinals aren't trying to compete for a World Series next year. Might as well accept it.

Yep.
It's a rebuild at this point.
Sad.

What's sad is that you don't get it.

The 2026 team isn't gonna win the WS. No amount of reasonable free-agent adds will significantly improve those odds.

The Cardinals are not the Dodgers or Yankees. They lack the resources to compete for the World Series every year. Fact is: If the Cardinals try to nominally "compete" every year, they end up never really competing for the World Series at all.

I don't like it any better than you do, but that's the truth.

The next best strategy is to rebuild with young players, then when you're close to critical mass and have plenty of MO's famous "dry powder," you add some free agents and go for it.

+1

Bully4you wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 12:50 pm This Sonny Gray trade should be looked at to answer 1 question--Did it make the team better?
As of right now we have $20M and 2 prospects for our best pitcher.
So, this just confirmed we are officially rebuilding.
Everyone here is so ecstatic over a couple of prospects.
One throws hard.
The other injured a lot.
Bottom line, we are most likely last in the division after this move.
Really nothing to celebrate here.
He may reinvest the $20M into another free agent.
That will help.
But as of this moment, Cards are a last place team.
Of course we have much of the off season to go.
So, let's see what happens.

Should try to win what?

I'll take a season or two of futility if it means this organization finally, finally, abandons its "scrap for a 2nd WC spot" mentality. Or if it means that they finally start looking for pitchers who throw strikes. Or if it means they are able to develop a front-of-the-rotation starting pitcher or a real power hitter a couple times a decade.

When this team is at a spot where they are one big FA away from being a threat in October and BDW doesn't sign that guy, then I'll join you in complaining that he's just cheap. But we're not there. Not even close.

And yes, the Gray trade means this club does not plan to "win 83 games and see what happens" in 2026. That's why I love it. Any move away from mediocrity is progress.

FrankTheTank wrote: ↑26 Nov 2025 11:28 am Not this front office. They have ONE concern; to make as much money as they can. Winning has been off the table for years. If they were concerned about that, they wouldn't bring back a manager who has managed over 3 of the worst years of Cardinals baseball in decades, only because they don't want to pay to make him go away. They want you to go to the game, hit up ballpark village before & after, spend some money on parking, and that's it.
Winning? Not a priority for this owner in years.

Baloney. The more they win, the more they make.

Baloney. The more they win, the more they make.

So it's just straight incompetence then?
2025 - 78-84
2024 - 83-79
2023 - 71-91
2022 - 93-69 (Lost NLWC 2-0)

Last playoff series win - 2019 (NL Division Series)
*Have won 1 playoff game since then.

This team has not been built for a playoff run for years, and when they could sign free agents, or take on salary, they have not. The owner cares about making money with his parking garages and ballpark village. He depends on guys like you to blindly always follow them. You do you Boo, I won't be buying a ticket until the manger is gone and there is a commitment to competing for championships again. That's just how I feel about it, you (and anyone else) is welcome to do what you want.

Pura Vida wrote: ↑26 Nov 2025 12:25 pm Cincy was in the playoffs with 83 wins. It's embarrassing STL fans can't expect 83 wins every year. Sounds like we're ready for new owners.

Cardinals should be striving for building a World Series contender, not an 83 win team that sneaks in and has little to no chance. The middle 10 spots are the worst to be in.

FrankTheTank wrote: ↑26 Nov 2025 14:33 pm

Baloney. The more they win, the more they make.

So it's just straight incompetence then?
2025 - 78-84
2024 - 83-79
2023 - 71-91
2022 - 93-69 (Lost NLWC 2-0)

Last playoff series win - 2019 (NL Division Series)
*Have won 1 playoff game since then.

This team has not been built for a playoff run for years, and when they could sign free agents, or take on salary, they have not. The owner cares about making money with his parking garages and ballpark village. He depends on guys like you to blindly always follow them. You do you Boo, I won't be buying a ticket until the manger is gone and there is a commitment to competing for championships again. That's just how I feel about it, you (and anyone else) is welcome to do what you want.

I had vowed not to spend any more money on the Cardinals until they became entertaining again. I've got to say; I like the changes they made in philosophy on the draft. I like that they hired people from outside the organization. I like the comments and results from players like Baez, Mautz, and Winquest about the improved coaching. I like that the front office seems to be able to communicate and get on the same page with veterans like Contreras, Gray, and Arenado. I like that I don't feel like throwing up every time I hear the POBO speak. I like that there seems to be one message about how to move forward and not more than one. I like that the FO seems like they work while people aren't watching. I like that Bloom seems to speak to all the other teams, and they seem to speak to him. I like that they chose the right people to let go during the roster crunch (Siani and company). I like the trade they made yesterday. I like that Bloom seems to have ownership's ear. There is still work to be done, but by spring training, I may be able to think of the team as entertaining again.

I had vowed not to spend any more money on the Cardinals until they became entertaining again. I've got to say; I like the changes they made in philosophy on the draft. I like that they hired people from outside the organization. I like the comments and results from players like Baez, Mautz, and Winquest about the improved coaching. I like that the front office seems to be able to communicate and get on the same page with veterans like Contreras, Gray, and Arenado. I like that I don't feel like throwing up every time I hear the POBO speak. I like that there seems to be one message about how to move forward and not more than one. I like that the FO seems like they work while people aren't watching. I like that Bloom seems to speak to all the other teams, and they seem to speak to him. I like that they chose the right people to let go during the roster crunch (Siani and company). I like the trade they made yesterday. I like that Bloom seems to have ownership's ear. There is still work to be done, but by spring training, I may be able to think of the team as entertaining again.

I hope you are right. This team has been boring for years now, and there has been no direction. It is sad when the last few years, you hear about so many teams, but the former KINGS of the NL, a team who seemingly was always in it, has been reduced to an afterthought. Now, were we spoiled? Absolutely, so that is part of the problem. I got to watch Pujols, Yadi, Waino, Big Mac, Rolen, Carpenter, etc., and now we just watch guys strikeout with the bases loaded, and an inept manager make baffling moves with the bullpen, and in other areas. Anyways, let's hope we are on the right track, but I will be more hopeful when the next manager is hired.

Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑26 Nov 2025 14:59 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑26 Nov 2025 12:25 pm Cincy was in the playoffs with 83 wins. It's embarrassing STL fans can't expect 83 wins every year. Sounds like we're ready for new owners.

Cardinals should be striving for building a World Series contender, not an 83 win team that sneaks in and has little to no chance. The middle 10 spots are the worst to be in.

Some people like sustained Mediocrity

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025 18:38 pm

I get it. I said it doesn't excite me. And not sorry to rain on your parade.

We have no OFer in our top 10 prospects and no decent OFers in the majors. I'm not excited about this teams future right now until a lot more happens. This wasn't the move I was waiting for to excite me.
[/quote]

Baseball America moved Josh Baez up to our #4 prospect. The MLB website with our top 30 prospects has not been updated for 2026 and currently lists him #12. When they come out with their 2026 update, I would expect him to be in the top 5.

I want the Cards to win as much as you do. As I get older, I finding winning another WS important. They just were not going to get there adding 1 or 2 free agents a year to a team that was not well balanced. We are also all tainted by the massive failures of our highly touted prospects, Reyes, Walker, Gorman etc. They will not all miss. The team is also investing in additional coaching to improve the odds of success now. When you read what was written about how the Cards gutted their coaching system over the last 5-7 years while adding payroll dollars, it should not be a shock about how many prospects washed out.

I find this offseason to be the most fascinating offseason in a decade. After watching MO add 1 player a year and calling it an offseason while each team still had screaming needs that could have been filled, this is refreshing. We are going to end up with 6-8 new decent prospects in return for 3-4 veterans that were not going to help us win. At the end of 2026, we should have a better view of our chances in 2027. There are three high end pitchers that likely start in AAA this season, Mathews, Doyle and Henderson that could make their ML debuts in 2026. Baez may push for the MLs by the middle of the season as well. I find that much more exciting than watching an aging Arenado, Gray, etc. flame out when it became clear the window for winning with those guys passed the Cards by.

I will forever be mad at MO for failing to enhance the 2022 team before the year. He added Pujols (great) and his lone pitching addition was Matz (terrible). Gausman was available that year in free agency as well as Quintana on a 1 year deal. Had MO added Gausman and Quintana before the season, that is likely a 100 win team that avoids the wild card round. All the veteran pieces are now gone are past their prime. So, it is time to get past it.

Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑26 Nov 2025 14:59 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑26 Nov 2025 12:25 pm Cincy was in the playoffs with 83 wins. It's embarrassing STL fans can't expect 83 wins every year. Sounds like we're ready for new owners.

Cardinals should be striving for building a World Series contender, not an 83 win team that sneaks in and has little to no chance. The middle 10 spots are the worst to be in.

Let's be real. There will be ONE team left standing every year. Getting hot at the right time (playoffs) is a more realistic goal than outspending LA, NY, and the usual suspects.