ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 10:45 am
Okay, under what circumstances should we add at the all star break? Under this organizational philosophy we would have dumped in July 2006. isn't the goal to attain the rare feat of winning the world series?
Philosophically, the Cardinals should be positioning their organization to where they can, many years (say 2 out of 3), have a roster going into the season that on paper looks to be ~Top 3 in the NL when they bulk up to a $180-$200 million payroll.
But to do that against the Dodgers, Phillies, Braves, Mets, etc., they have to have a ~Top 5 farm system in terms of delivering talent to the ML team - producing both solid, average starters and the occasional impact player (a 4-5 fWAR position player or #1/#2 SP). They are getting there, but the ML team hasn't yet realized the benefits. Maybe after Wetherholt, Doyle, etc. matriculate, they will start to get the pipeline back to where it needs to be.
If they get to the trade deadline and it looks to be holding true (based on player performance, injury avoidance, etc.) that they have a ~Top 3 in the NL roster, then by all means look to "win now" and make additions to push for a WS that year.
I don't see them having the money to bulk up to that level but the question is dump or add in July. What's the benchmark number for that?
The benchmark is - when the trade deadline approaches, does it look like they have a Top 3 in the NL roster or not? If yes, add. If no, but are firmly in a spot to make the playoffs, hold. If no and not firmly in a spot to make the playoffs, sell.
So if we aren't top 3 abandon all hope? 2011 we were wild card but we added a pitcher in July named Edwin Jackson who got us to the playoffs - barely. That's a lot of dumping and not a lot of trying to win.
The made a lot of upgrades at the deadline in 2011 fixed most of their weaknesses. They also had pujols berkman holliday and a rotation headed by carpenter and a hall of
Fame manager. If the cardinals made the post season next season they would have a murderers row of walker and Gorman lol a rotation headed by who? And lead by oli lol that would be the fastest one and done series ever
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 14:03 pm
We averaged 5,917 more fans per game this season. After the 1985 debacle they didn't make the postseason for 29 years. Won a WS in 2015 and within 3 season lost 104 games. Took them 9 seasons after the WS to post a winning record.
We have to get rid of the mentality of 5 games over .500 at the all star break is an automatic sell off like we did this season.
I’m glad they are getting rid of the finishing over .500 is a good season and want to build a team that can actually win something instead of being dumb holding onto players so they can be one and done in the post season
Great if it works but teams like the Pirates have been trying to do that for decades. There is a 2006 world series banner at Busch Stadium for a team that was 5 games over .500 for the season. They won the world series because you don't need more than 3 starting pitchers in the playoffs. First you make the playoffs. Then you win.
Royals went 29 years with no playoffs. 2 consecutive world series. Dump and rebuild another 9 years before they had a winning record.
The 2006 Cardinals run was not the norm. Besides this team lacked a Carpenter, Pujols, Molina, Rolen and Edmonds. Far too many teams lie to themselves and their fan base when stuck in the middle and turn it into years of mediocrity with no real hope of getting out of it. They can’t admit they are not a true playoff contender and need to build from within.
Sometimes teams need a reset to build things up. The 2025 Cardinals needed that. It would have been insane to not sell at the deadline hoping this team can make a magical run. They should have traded Romero as well.
Now it’s on DeWitt and Bloom to show they are building towards success and not becoming a terribly run team like Pittsburgh and Colorado.
What part of the 25 team left you feeling like they had any chance at post season success?
I know resets stink but all teams need them occasionally when they can’t spend 250 million on payroll.
There is no norm. In the wild card era - 30 years - the team with the best record has won the world series 24% of the time. You make the playoffs. The it's a new season.
How did Milwaukee, Cincinnati and Philly do against the Dodgers? What makes you think STL would have done anything against LA? The game is different than it was in 06.
You think Pozo, Noot and the rest were beating anyone in the playoffs?
Nothing in your response answers the questions I asked, You dodged the questions.
Just telling the truth. Nobody thought the 2006 team could win it all but they didn't sell off all the veterans.
As my early response showed the talent level of 06 was vastly better than 25. There were also no super teams built in 06. Not at all comparable. Tell me who is the Carpenter, Rolen, Pujols, Molina and Edmonds on the 2025 Cardinals?
The Cardinals were projected to finish last. By 2025 standards we would have dumped for prospects. 2011 we were wild card. In both cases we went for it and got it.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 10:45 am
Okay, under what circumstances should we add at the all star break? Under this organizational philosophy we would have dumped in July 2006. isn't the goal to attain the rare feat of winning the world series?
Philosophically, the Cardinals should be positioning their organization to where they can, many years (say 2 out of 3), have a roster going into the season that on paper looks to be ~Top 3 in the NL when they bulk up to a $180-$200 million payroll.
But to do that against the Dodgers, Phillies, Braves, Mets, etc., they have to have a ~Top 5 farm system in terms of delivering talent to the ML team - producing both solid, average starters and the occasional impact player (a 4-5 fWAR position player or #1/#2 SP). They are getting there, but the ML team hasn't yet realized the benefits. Maybe after Wetherholt, Doyle, etc. matriculate, they will start to get the pipeline back to where it needs to be.
If they get to the trade deadline and it looks to be holding true (based on player performance, injury avoidance, etc.) that they have a ~Top 3 in the NL roster, then by all means look to "win now" and make additions to push for a WS that year.
I don't see them having the money to bulk up to that level but the question is dump or add in July. What's the benchmark number for that?
The benchmark is - when the trade deadline approaches, does it look like they have a Top 3 in the NL roster or not? If yes, add. If no, but are firmly in a spot to make the playoffs, hold. If no and not firmly in a spot to make the playoffs, sell.
So if we aren't top 3 abandon all hope? 2011 we were wild card but we added a pitcher in July named Edwin Jackson who got us to the playoffs - barely. That's a lot of dumping and not a lot of trying to win.
The made a lot of upgrades at the deadline in 2011 fixed most of their weaknesses. They also had pujols berkman holliday and a rotation headed by carpenter and a hall of
Fame manager. If the cardinals made the post season next season they would have a murderers row of walker and Gorman lol a rotation headed by who? And lead by oli lol that would be the fastest one and done series ever
Exactly they didn't dump. Wild card team won the WS. Contrast that with the current attitude that wild card isn't good enough.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 10:45 am
Okay, under what circumstances should we add at the all star break? Under this organizational philosophy we would have dumped in July 2006. isn't the goal to attain the rare feat of winning the world series?
Philosophically, the Cardinals should be positioning their organization to where they can, many years (say 2 out of 3), have a roster going into the season that on paper looks to be ~Top 3 in the NL when they bulk up to a $180-$200 million payroll.
But to do that against the Dodgers, Phillies, Braves, Mets, etc., they have to have a ~Top 5 farm system in terms of delivering talent to the ML team - producing both solid, average starters and the occasional impact player (a 4-5 fWAR position player or #1/#2 SP). They are getting there, but the ML team hasn't yet realized the benefits. Maybe after Wetherholt, Doyle, etc. matriculate, they will start to get the pipeline back to where it needs to be.
If they get to the trade deadline and it looks to be holding true (based on player performance, injury avoidance, etc.) that they have a ~Top 3 in the NL roster, then by all means look to "win now" and make additions to push for a WS that year.
I don't see them having the money to bulk up to that level but the question is dump or add in July. What's the benchmark number for that?
The benchmark is - when the trade deadline approaches, does it look like they have a Top 3 in the NL roster or not? If yes, add. If no, but are firmly in a spot to make the playoffs, hold. If no and not firmly in a spot to make the playoffs, sell.
So if we aren't top 3 abandon all hope? 2011 we were wild card but we added a pitcher in July named Edwin Jackson who got us to the playoffs - barely. That's a lot of dumping and not a lot of trying to win.
The made a lot of upgrades at the deadline in 2011 fixed most of their weaknesses. They also had pujols berkman holliday and a rotation headed by carpenter and a hall of
Fame manager. If the cardinals made the post season next season they would have a murderers row of walker and Gorman lol a rotation headed by who? And lead by oli lol that would be the fastest one and done series ever
Exactly they didn't dump. Wild card team won the WS. Contrast that with the current attitude that wild card isn't good enough.
The 2011 team had pieces worth trading for to try to win with a cy young caliber ace pujols Berkman Holliday a hall of fame manager yea you Ride with that. You want them to trade prospects to ride with a fearsome middle of the order of Gorman and walker and gray as your big ace and freaking oli as manger lol that would be pretty dumb
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 10:45 am
Okay, under what circumstances should we add at the all star break? Under this organizational philosophy we would have dumped in July 2006. isn't the goal to attain the rare feat of winning the world series?
Philosophically, the Cardinals should be positioning their organization to where they can, many years (say 2 out of 3), have a roster going into the season that on paper looks to be ~Top 3 in the NL when they bulk up to a $180-$200 million payroll.
But to do that against the Dodgers, Phillies, Braves, Mets, etc., they have to have a ~Top 5 farm system in terms of delivering talent to the ML team - producing both solid, average starters and the occasional impact player (a 4-5 fWAR position player or #1/#2 SP). They are getting there, but the ML team hasn't yet realized the benefits. Maybe after Wetherholt, Doyle, etc. matriculate, they will start to get the pipeline back to where it needs to be.
If they get to the trade deadline and it looks to be holding true (based on player performance, injury avoidance, etc.) that they have a ~Top 3 in the NL roster, then by all means look to "win now" and make additions to push for a WS that year.
I don't see them having the money to bulk up to that level but the question is dump or add in July. What's the benchmark number for that?
The benchmark is - when the trade deadline approaches, does it look like they have a Top 3 in the NL roster or not? If yes, add. If no, but are firmly in a spot to make the playoffs, hold. If no and not firmly in a spot to make the playoffs, sell.
So if we aren't top 3 abandon all hope? 2011 we were wild card but we added a pitcher in July named Edwin Jackson who got us to the playoffs - barely. That's a lot of dumping and not a lot of trying to win.
The made a lot of upgrades at the deadline in 2011 fixed most of their weaknesses. They also had pujols berkman holliday and a rotation headed by carpenter and a hall of
Fame manager. If the cardinals made the post season next season they would have a murderers row of walker and Gorman lol a rotation headed by who? And lead by oli lol that would be the fastest one and done series ever
Exactly they didn't dump. Wild card team won the WS. Contrast that with the current attitude that wild card isn't good enough.
The 2011 team had pieces worth trading for to try to win with a cy young caliber ace pujols Berkman Holliday a hall of fame manager yea you Ride with that. You want them to trade prospects to ride with a fearsome middle of the order of Gorman and walker and gray as your big ace and freaking oli as manger lol that would be pretty dumb
I'd like to see us try to win instead of quitting midway through the season when we have a chance to make the playoff. Like we did in 2006 and 2011.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 14:03 pm
We averaged 5,917 more fans per game this season. After the 1985 debacle they didn't make the postseason for 29 years. Won a WS in 2015 and within 3 season lost 104 games. Took them 9 seasons after the WS to post a winning record.
We have to get rid of the mentality of 5 games over .500 at the all star break is an automatic sell off like we did this season.
I’m glad they are getting rid of the finishing over .500 is a good season and want to build a team that can actually win something instead of being dumb holding onto players so they can be one and done in the post season
Great if it works but teams like the Pirates have been trying to do that for decades. There is a 2006 world series banner at Busch Stadium for a team that was 5 games over .500 for the season. They won the world series because you don't need more than 3 starting pitchers in the playoffs. First you make the playoffs. Then you win.
Royals went 29 years with no playoffs. 2 consecutive world series. Dump and rebuild another 9 years before they had a winning record.
The 2006 Cardinals run was not the norm. Besides this team lacked a Carpenter, Pujols, Molina, Rolen and Edmonds. Far too many teams lie to themselves and their fan base when stuck in the middle and turn it into years of mediocrity with no real hope of getting out of it. They can’t admit they are not a true playoff contender and need to build from within.
Sometimes teams need a reset to build things up. The 2025 Cardinals needed that. It would have been insane to not sell at the deadline hoping this team can make a magical run. They should have traded Romero as well.
Now it’s on DeWitt and Bloom to show they are building towards success and not becoming a terribly run team like Pittsburgh and Colorado.
What part of the 25 team left you feeling like they had any chance at post season success?
I know resets stink but all teams need them occasionally when they can’t spend 250 million on payroll.
There is no norm. In the wild card era - 30 years - the team with the best record has won the world series 24% of the time. You make the playoffs. The it's a new season.
How did Milwaukee, Cincinnati and Philly do against the Dodgers? What makes you think STL would have done anything against LA? The game is different than it was in 06.
You think Pozo, Noot and the rest were beating anyone in the playoffs?
Nothing in your response answers the questions I asked, You dodged the questions.
Just telling the truth. Nobody thought the 2006 team could win it all but they didn't sell off all the veterans.
As my early response showed the talent level of 06 was vastly better than 25. There were also no super teams built in 06. Not at all comparable. Tell me who is the Carpenter, Rolen, Pujols, Molina and Edmonds on the 2025 Cardinals?
The Cardinals were projected to finish last. By 2025 standards we would have dumped for prospects. 2011 we were wild card. In both cases we went for it and got it.
They were in the World Series in 04 and NLCS in 05. They would not have blown it up in 06 under 25 standards. You keep deflecting as you hate rebuilding and won’t face the decay of the current state of the club.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 10:45 am
Okay, under what circumstances should we add at the all star break? Under this organizational philosophy we would have dumped in July 2006. isn't the goal to attain the rare feat of winning the world series?
Philosophically, the Cardinals should be positioning their organization to where they can, many years (say 2 out of 3), have a roster going into the season that on paper looks to be ~Top 3 in the NL when they bulk up to a $180-$200 million payroll.
But to do that against the Dodgers, Phillies, Braves, Mets, etc., they have to have a ~Top 5 farm system in terms of delivering talent to the ML team - producing both solid, average starters and the occasional impact player (a 4-5 fWAR position player or #1/#2 SP). They are getting there, but the ML team hasn't yet realized the benefits. Maybe after Wetherholt, Doyle, etc. matriculate, they will start to get the pipeline back to where it needs to be.
If they get to the trade deadline and it looks to be holding true (based on player performance, injury avoidance, etc.) that they have a ~Top 3 in the NL roster, then by all means look to "win now" and make additions to push for a WS that year.
I don't see them having the money to bulk up to that level but the question is dump or add in July. What's the benchmark number for that?
The benchmark is - when the trade deadline approaches, does it look like they have a Top 3 in the NL roster or not? If yes, add. If no, but are firmly in a spot to make the playoffs, hold. If no and not firmly in a spot to make the playoffs, sell.
So if we aren't top 3 abandon all hope? 2011 we were wild card but we added a pitcher in July named Edwin Jackson who got us to the playoffs - barely. That's a lot of dumping and not a lot of trying to win.
The made a lot of upgrades at the deadline in 2011 fixed most of their weaknesses. They also had pujols berkman holliday and a rotation headed by carpenter and a hall of
Fame manager. If the cardinals made the post season next season they would have a murderers row of walker and Gorman lol a rotation headed by who? And lead by oli lol that would be the fastest one and done series ever
Exactly they didn't dump. Wild card team won the WS. Contrast that with the current attitude that wild card isn't good enough.
The 2011 team had pieces worth trading for to try to win with a cy young caliber ace pujols Berkman Holliday a hall of fame manager yea you Ride with that. You want them to trade prospects to ride with a fearsome middle of the order of Gorman and walker and gray as your big ace and freaking oli as manger lol that would be pretty dumb
I'd like to see us try to win instead of quitting midway through the season when we have a chance to make the playoff. Like we did in 2006 and 2011.
You need to have a team and manager who can win comparing what they have now to 2006 and 2011 is insane. You view it only as oh but but but look at the win totals lol the 2006 team was a great team that injury problems and got
Healthy at the right time Edmonds even took exception to people saying they just got hot at the right time on a podcast he said no they got healthy at the right time and it was a great team. The 2011 team was good they were just missing a few pieces and fixed them at the deadline just like the braves did a few years ago. This team has no middle of the order it has no ace it has nothing that can remotely say one or two moves and this team can go deep
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 10:45 am
Okay, under what circumstances should we add at the all star break? Under this organizational philosophy we would have dumped in July 2006. isn't the goal to attain the rare feat of winning the world series?
Philosophically, the Cardinals should be positioning their organization to where they can, many years (say 2 out of 3), have a roster going into the season that on paper looks to be ~Top 3 in the NL when they bulk up to a $180-$200 million payroll.
But to do that against the Dodgers, Phillies, Braves, Mets, etc., they have to have a ~Top 5 farm system in terms of delivering talent to the ML team - producing both solid, average starters and the occasional impact player (a 4-5 fWAR position player or #1/#2 SP). They are getting there, but the ML team hasn't yet realized the benefits. Maybe after Wetherholt, Doyle, etc. matriculate, they will start to get the pipeline back to where it needs to be.
If they get to the trade deadline and it looks to be holding true (based on player performance, injury avoidance, etc.) that they have a ~Top 3 in the NL roster, then by all means look to "win now" and make additions to push for a WS that year.
I don't see them having the money to bulk up to that level but the question is dump or add in July. What's the benchmark number for that?
The benchmark is - when the trade deadline approaches, does it look like they have a Top 3 in the NL roster or not? If yes, add. If no, but are firmly in a spot to make the playoffs, hold. If no and not firmly in a spot to make the playoffs, sell.
So if we aren't top 3 abandon all hope? 2011 we were wild card but we added a pitcher in July named Edwin Jackson who got us to the playoffs - barely. That's a lot of dumping and not a lot of trying to win.
The made a lot of upgrades at the deadline in 2011 fixed most of their weaknesses. They also had pujols berkman holliday and a rotation headed by carpenter and a hall of
Fame manager. If the cardinals made the post season next season they would have a murderers row of walker and Gorman lol a rotation headed by who? And lead by oli lol that would be the fastest one and done series ever
Exactly they didn't dump. Wild card team won the WS. Contrast that with the current attitude that wild card isn't good enough.
The 2011 team had pieces worth trading for to try to win with a cy young caliber ace pujols Berkman Holliday a hall of fame manager yea you Ride with that. You want them to trade prospects to ride with a fearsome middle of the order of Gorman and walker and gray as your big ace and freaking oli as manger lol that would be pretty dumb
I'd like to see us try to win instead of quitting midway through the season when we have a chance to make the playoff. Like we did in 2006 and 2011.
You need to have a team and manager who can win comparing what they have now to 2006 and 2011 is insane. You view it only as oh but but but look at the win totals lol the 2006 team was a great team that injury problems and got
Healthy at the right time Edmonds even took exception to people saying they just got hot at the right time on a podcast he said no they got healthy at the right time and it was a great team. The 2011 team was good they were just missing a few pieces and fixed them at the deadline just like the braves did a few years ago. This team has no middle of the order it has no ace it has nothing that can remotely say one or two moves and this team can go deep
What "stars" will we have next season? Do we dump again even if we are winning because we don't have "star power"? The star was Pujols and Matheny took us to the playoff 4 times without Pujols - and a world series.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 10:45 am
Okay, under what circumstances should we add at the all star break? Under this organizational philosophy we would have dumped in July 2006. isn't the goal to attain the rare feat of winning the world series?
Philosophically, the Cardinals should be positioning their organization to where they can, many years (say 2 out of 3), have a roster going into the season that on paper looks to be ~Top 3 in the NL when they bulk up to a $180-$200 million payroll.
But to do that against the Dodgers, Phillies, Braves, Mets, etc., they have to have a ~Top 5 farm system in terms of delivering talent to the ML team - producing both solid, average starters and the occasional impact player (a 4-5 fWAR position player or #1/#2 SP). They are getting there, but the ML team hasn't yet realized the benefits. Maybe after Wetherholt, Doyle, etc. matriculate, they will start to get the pipeline back to where it needs to be.
If they get to the trade deadline and it looks to be holding true (based on player performance, injury avoidance, etc.) that they have a ~Top 3 in the NL roster, then by all means look to "win now" and make additions to push for a WS that year.
I don't see them having the money to bulk up to that level but the question is dump or add in July. What's the benchmark number for that?
The benchmark is - when the trade deadline approaches, does it look like they have a Top 3 in the NL roster or not? If yes, add. If no, but are firmly in a spot to make the playoffs, hold. If no and not firmly in a spot to make the playoffs, sell.
So if we aren't top 3 abandon all hope? 2011 we were wild card but we added a pitcher in July named Edwin Jackson who got us to the playoffs - barely. That's a lot of dumping and not a lot of trying to win.
The made a lot of upgrades at the deadline in 2011 fixed most of their weaknesses. They also had pujols berkman holliday and a rotation headed by carpenter and a hall of
Fame manager. If the cardinals made the post season next season they would have a murderers row of walker and Gorman lol a rotation headed by who? And lead by oli lol that would be the fastest one and done series ever
Exactly they didn't dump. Wild card team won the WS. Contrast that with the current attitude that wild card isn't good enough.
The 2011 team had pieces worth trading for to try to win with a cy young caliber ace pujols Berkman Holliday a hall of fame manager yea you Ride with that. You want them to trade prospects to ride with a fearsome middle of the order of Gorman and walker and gray as your big ace and freaking oli as manger lol that would be pretty dumb
I'd like to see us try to win instead of quitting midway through the season when we have a chance to make the playoff. Like we did in 2006 and 2011.
You need to have a team and manager who can win comparing what they have now to 2006 and 2011 is insane. You view it only as oh but but but look at the win totals lol the 2006 team was a great team that injury problems and got
Healthy at the right time Edmonds even took exception to people saying they just got hot at the right time on a podcast he said no they got healthy at the right time and it was a great team. The 2011 team was good they were just missing a few pieces and fixed them at the deadline just like the braves did a few years ago. This team has no middle of the order it has no ace it has nothing that can remotely say one or two moves and this team can go deep
What "stars" will we have next season? Do we dump again even if we are winning because we don't have "star power"? The star was Pujols and Matheny took us to the playoff 4 times without Pujols - and a world series.
lol the team missed the playoffs 3 straight times with MM at the helm then went to the post season 4 straight times once they dumped him. The 2013 team that went to the World Series had 4 .300 hitters one .296 hitter one .284 hitter and one .276 hitter and a rotation that had 2 15 game winners and a 19 game winner the 2015 team had historically good pitching. MM wanted to get wacha into the post season so brought him in to get the cardinals eliminated
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 10:45 am
Okay, under what circumstances should we add at the all star break? Under this organizational philosophy we would have dumped in July 2006. isn't the goal to attain the rare feat of winning the world series?
Philosophically, the Cardinals should be positioning their organization to where they can, many years (say 2 out of 3), have a roster going into the season that on paper looks to be ~Top 3 in the NL when they bulk up to a $180-$200 million payroll.
But to do that against the Dodgers, Phillies, Braves, Mets, etc., they have to have a ~Top 5 farm system in terms of delivering talent to the ML team - producing both solid, average starters and the occasional impact player (a 4-5 fWAR position player or #1/#2 SP). They are getting there, but the ML team hasn't yet realized the benefits. Maybe after Wetherholt, Doyle, etc. matriculate, they will start to get the pipeline back to where it needs to be.
If they get to the trade deadline and it looks to be holding true (based on player performance, injury avoidance, etc.) that they have a ~Top 3 in the NL roster, then by all means look to "win now" and make additions to push for a WS that year.
I don't see them having the money to bulk up to that level but the question is dump or add in July. What's the benchmark number for that?
The benchmark is - when the trade deadline approaches, does it look like they have a Top 3 in the NL roster or not? If yes, add. If no, but are firmly in a spot to make the playoffs, hold. If no and not firmly in a spot to make the playoffs, sell.
So if we aren't top 3 abandon all hope? 2011 we were wild card but we added a pitcher in July named Edwin Jackson who got us to the playoffs - barely. That's a lot of dumping and not a lot of trying to win.
The made a lot of upgrades at the deadline in 2011 fixed most of their weaknesses. They also had pujols berkman holliday and a rotation headed by carpenter and a hall of
Fame manager. If the cardinals made the post season next season they would have a murderers row of walker and Gorman lol a rotation headed by who? And lead by oli lol that would be the fastest one and done series ever
Exactly they didn't dump. Wild card team won the WS. Contrast that with the current attitude that wild card isn't good enough.
The 2011 team had pieces worth trading for to try to win with a cy young caliber ace pujols Berkman Holliday a hall of fame manager yea you Ride with that. You want them to trade prospects to ride with a fearsome middle of the order of Gorman and walker and gray as your big ace and freaking oli as manger lol that would be pretty dumb
I'd like to see us try to win instead of quitting midway through the season when we have a chance to make the playoff. Like we did in 2006 and 2011.
You need to have a team and manager who can win comparing what they have now to 2006 and 2011 is insane. You view it only as oh but but but look at the win totals lol the 2006 team was a great team that injury problems and got
Healthy at the right time Edmonds even took exception to people saying they just got hot at the right time on a podcast he said no they got healthy at the right time and it was a great team. The 2011 team was good they were just missing a few pieces and fixed them at the deadline just like the braves did a few years ago. This team has no middle of the order it has no ace it has nothing that can remotely say one or two moves and this team can go deep
What "stars" will we have next season? Do we dump again even if we are winning because we don't have "star power"? The star was Pujols and Matheny took us to the playoff 4 times without Pujols - and a world series.
lol the team missed the playoffs 3 straight times with MM at the helm then went to the post season 4 straight times once they dumped him. The 2013 team that went to the World Series had 4 .300 hitters one .296 hitter one .284 hitter and one .276 hitter and a rotation that had 2 15 game winners and a 19 game winner the 2015 team had historically good pitching. MM wanted to get wacha into the post season so brought him in to get the cardinals eliminated
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 20:53 pm
I'd like to see us try to win instead of quitting midway through the season when we have a chance to make the playoff. Like we did in 2006 and 2011.
The 2011 team had four players (Molina 5.4 fWAR, Berkman 4.7 fWAR, Holliday 4.4 fWAR, and Pujols 3.9 fWAR) who had better seasons than anyone on the 2025 roster (Winn 3.5 fWAR).
The 2011 team also had a better starting rotation (Carpenter 4.5 fWAR, Garcia 3.2 fWAR, Lohse 2.2 fWAR) than 2025 (Gray 3.6 fWAR, Liberatore 1.8 fWAR).
Overall, by fWAR, the 2011 roster was about 11 wins better in terms of talent than the 2025 roster.
And the Cardinals' roster in 2011 was basically Top 3 in the NL, really behind only Milwaukee (6.3 wins better) and Philadelphia (7.1 wins better).
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 22:30 pm
How many world championships has MM won and if hes so great as you are trying so hard to convince people why exactly was he fired in Kansas City
Just the facts. He got the Cardinals to a World Series without Pujols on the roster - something LaRussa never did.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 20:39 pm
The Cardinals were projected to finish last. By 2025 standards we would have dumped for prospects. 2011 we were wild card. In both cases we went for it and got it.
In 2006 who projected the Cardinals to finish last? After coming off two 100 win seasons, an NL Pennant, and nearly a second one in 2005? Because I sure don’t remember that. And I just googled it to make sure I’m not crazy and the first two results I could find both had them picked to win the Central. And they were 12 games up for the division at the deadline.
I think that continuing to compare this team to either of those teams is nonsense. They’re not remotely close.
