This Ohtani Game: Isn't this the most dominant single game performance ever in the history of any team sport?

[Bushiro]

This is like having Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens in the same body.
Minus the roids that is.

Well done....

[cardstatman]

I'm not too cool with the Ohtani rules.

The one I dislike most is that the Dodgers get to carry 14 pitchers while everyone else is limited to 13. They get 9 relievers in all 162 games. IMHO, Ohtani should count as a pitcher and the Dodgers should get an extra bench player. The whole point of limiting teams to 13 pitchers was about limiting pitching changes. The fact that Ohtani can hit should not give them a pitching advantage in all 162 games. It should give them a hitting advantage (one extra bench guy).

I can live with the Dodgers starting the game without a DH but then getting to start using one after Ohtani stops pitching. That affects only the games when Ohtani is the starting pitcher. This one is kind of iffy but I can live with it.

Is that how it works, Dodgers start without DH and Ohtani is listed as Pitcher? So he never really leaves the game just switches positions?

Yes, he pitches but he doesn't count as one of their 13 pitchers. Not fair.

If he's a 2-way player, he should count as a pitcher because that's what being a 2-way player means.

Teams are allowed to have more than 13 hitters on their roster. So the Dodgers should go with 14 hitters and 13 pitchers on their 26-man roster.

I was questioning whether Ohtani is officially listed as a P or DH when game is started? Trying to figure out what pretzel MLB attempts to navigate with him staying in as DH.
1. He starts games as DH(For himself…..which completely negates the designation of DH) and then somehow just continues as DH even though he’s remove from his field position.
2. He starts game as a P and then changes positions to DH to stay in the game….???

Yes, I understand and I can't help much. I think the concept is that the 2-way player is a starting pitcher (who does not hit) and is also designated to hit for the pitcher(s) (this happens to be himself at the beginning of the game but the pitcher can be replaced many times without changing the DH). So the "stretch" is that one guy is allowed to play 2 roles and later be removed from either one of them.

The rule below is the one I hate far more because it is unfair for all 162 games of the season.

• In February 2020, MLB officially announced a new rule allowing for a "two-way player" designation. The rule was specifically created for Ohtani.
  The rule allows players who qualify to be able to pitch without counting toward their team's limit of 13 pitchers on the active roster.
  To qualify, a player must have pitched at least 20 innings and played in at least 20 games as a position player (or DH) with a minimum of three plate appearances, either in the current or previous season.

This one below is less dubious IMHO because it only affects the last 3 innings of games started by Ohtani. It really doesn't upset me much. It is just extension of the DH rule where a batter who is not playing any defensive position is allowed to hit for the pitcher. Now that pitchers never hit; I think it is archaic that the DH cannot swap positions with the 1B without revoke the the DH rule and requiring the 1B to be removed from the game and making the pitcher bat for the rest of the game.

• The "Ohtani rule" officially started in 2022 when Major League Baseball (MLB) implemented a rule change that allowed a player who starts as both pitcher and designated hitter (DH) to remain in the game as the DH even after being removed as the pitcher.

Ohtani was still with the Angels at the time both rules were invented. So you can't blame the Dodgers for this but feel free to blame Los Angeles!

If pitchers can also hit, more power to them but it should not give their team an extra pitcher, it should give them an extra hitter.

[LCA1951]

Not really.
He and the Dodgers were given a grossly unfair advantage.
I suppose the corrupt Ohtani rule did however achieve the desired outcome.

lol.

It’s weird when people can’t acknowledge greatness.

Might want to check your comprehension.
I have said repeatedly that Ohtani's is currently the game's best all-around player.
And that is EXACTLY why the rule was created to begin with.

Babe Ruth hit in games he pitch but Never did this and he is supposed to be the model

Ruth pitched a 14-inning complete game in the World Series (not merely a league playoff game), faced 48 hitters, threw 145 pitches, gave up 1 run, and won the game 2-1.
He pitched 13 scoreless innings after the first.
He also drove in one of the Red Sox 2 runs.
He was just 21 years old.
No player in WS history has ever come close to matching that in the last 109 years.
By the way, Ruth started 40 games that year, made 4 relief appearances, won 23 games, led the league in ERA (career best 1.75), record 23 complete games, produced 9 shutouts, pitched 323.2 innings with a miniscule 1.07 WHIP, and did not allow a single HR.
Ohtani is a great player.
He will never come close to what Ruth achieved in that season or in that 1 WS game.

I totally understand what you have written regarding a season. In fact, I do not consider Ohtani the Greatest of All Time at THIS Time. However, For a one game performance, what we witnessed for a singular game, I differ and still assert this latest performance is the best for a singular game i baseball history. Ohtani has much to do to rise as the All-time greatest but he certainly made baseball one-game greatest history.

[MrPostman01]

NO!

Fernando Tatis smacking two grand slammahs for the Cardinals in the same inning off the same Dodger pitcher is!

[Melville]

NO!

Fernando Tatis smacking two grand slammahs for the Cardinals in the same inning off the same Dodger pitcher is!

He certainly contributed more in that one inning than Ohtani did in 9 innings last night.

[BrummerStealsHome]

But he only went 6. A real man goes 9

Ha ha, you're singin' my tune. But it wasn't him, it's the wimpy management style of today's game. Alston, Lasorda, et al would have left him in to go 9 if he could. And there's a good chance he would have.

No, the Ohtani Rule is likely the only thing that took him out of the game at the moment he was lifted.
Think about the game sequence without bias or agenda - as I do in all things.
Ohtani pitched the beginning of the 7th of a 4-1 game, giving up a hit and a walk.
Potential tying run due up next.
Does Roberts take him out for a relief pitcher, knowing Ohtani (his best hitter is due to hit 2nd in the bottom of the inning)?
After all, given the game situation in that moment, they might need his bat later the same inning.
Or does he leave him in, facing the Brewers' lineup for a third time?
Tough choice.
<snip>

You're missing the point. Alston, Lasorda, Herzog, and all the great managers of that era would have left him in. They wouldn't fear the scenario you laid out. They'd want their best pitcher in theree to work through it. There's a greater thing in play here. A manager who shows confidence in his players, particularly his best players, particularly particularly when they get in a jam, gets the most out of ALL his players. Baseball has gotten too wimpy. They're afraid to fail. They're afraid they might get hurt. Man, take that risk. It's part of the game when you want to be a champion.

[Melville]

But he only went 6. A real man goes 9

Ha ha, you're singin' my tune. But it wasn't him, it's the wimpy management style of today's game. Alston, Lasorda, et al would have left him in to go 9 if he could. And there's a good chance he would have.

No, the Ohtani Rule is likely the only thing that took him out of the game at the moment he was lifted.
Think about the game sequence without bias or agenda - as I do in all things.
Ohtani pitched the beginning of the 7th of a 4-1 game, giving up a hit and a walk.
Potential tying run due up next.
Does Roberts take him out for a relief pitcher, knowing Ohtani (his best hitter is due to hit 2nd in the bottom of the inning)?
After all, given the game situation in that moment, they might need his bat later the same inning.
Or does he leave him in, facing the Brewers' lineup for a third time?
Tough choice.
<snip>

You're missing the point. Alston, Lasorda, Herzog, and all the great managers of that era would have left him in. They wouldn't fear the scenario you laid out. They'd want their best pitcher in theree to work through it. There's a greater thing in play here. A manager who shows confidence in his players, particularly his best players, particularly particularly when they get in a jam, gets the most out of ALL his players. Baseball has gotten too wimpy. They're afraid to fail. They're afraid they might get hurt. Man, take that risk. It's part of the game when you want to be a champion.

Respectfully, you are the one missing the point.
Alston, Lasorda, Herzog and EVERY MANAGER IN MLB HISTORY would have been required to make a decision in that moment.
All except Roberts, that is.
Because of a rule designed solely for Ohtani, Roberts was able to take him out AND leave him in.
No decision required.
No risk either way.
Only an advantage either way.

[Mr Buttercup]

All I can think of is Wilt Chamberlain maybe.
Or Wayne Gretzky?
This is off the charts bananas what he did.
Insane.

Burly could do that!

[TheJackBurton]

Best player of all time.

Best player of his era not all time at least not yet.

Ever

Babe Ruth was quite an impressive pitcher as well.

He also hit dominated the offensive side of the game as well while pitching.

Ohtani still has a long way to go.

[TheJackBurton]

Not really.
He and the Dodgers were given a grossly unfair advantage.
I suppose the corrupt Ohtani rule did however achieve the desired outcome.

Corrupt? Why? The rule would apply to another player that could pitch and hit as well. Do you have anyone in mind? Or is it corrupt because only player is capable of doing it.

I guess the NFL had a corrupt rule when "Jet Stream" Roy Green could play offense and defense in the same game.

Ohtani is an example of a true "unicorn".

It is a corrupt rule because it was put in place solely to drive revenue, gives one team an intentional lineup advantage over all others, forces 29 managers to manage a game one way and gives a free pass to the 30th, and makes equal competition a complete mockery.

Other teams can DH their pitchers.
No one stopping them.

No other team had a rule created to benefit just one player - and thereby benefit just that one team.

They didn't create the rule for Ohtani and the Dodgers.
The rule was a long time coming.
The same rule that was in the American League for how many years before Ohtani sir?
That's correct, this rule has been in effect in the American league forever now.
The American League could have used a pitcher to hit if they so choose to in the 80's, 90's, 2000's etc.
The rule wasn't made specifically for one team or guy.
It was modeled after the American League.

No, a pitcher removed from the mound could not have continued to hit.
That was changed solely to benefit Ohtani - and to keep the best player in MLB in the game for marketing purposes.
And last night it did exactly as designed.
Look at the marketing benefit from last night's game.

Yea it’s pretty pathetic MLB changed the rules to benefit one team and one player. It would have made the dodgers decide do we start ohtani in order to get him on the mound and lose his bat later in the game or DH him and have to go to a lesser pitcher oh don’t worry MLB has the dodgers back to make sure they have the advantage and don’t have to worry about it

Quality post on your part.
There is even more advantage to the Dodgers than what you correctly outlined above.
Would the Dodgers EVER bat Ohtani at leadoff if they knew that a relief pitcher would take over that spot in the batting order if Ohtani was lifted?
Of course not.
But due to the special rule designed to benefit just him and the Dodgers, he is able to leadoff the first inning with a HR, completely changing the game and giving his team a massive advantage in an elimination game.
The entire integrity of that game was corrupted from the very beginning.

Except that, again, this rule doesn't apply only to Shohei Ohtani. If any other player has the ability to pitch 6 innings and be a valuable enough hitter to remain in the game as a DH after they've finished pitching, they're more than welcome to do so.

I absolutely loathe the F'n LA Deferrals and can't wait for a salary cap and floor, but blaming this option that EVERY PLAYER can take advantage of is just kinda... bleh

C'mon now let's not be obtuse.

If Shohei Ohtani isn't in the league the rule is never instituted.

It was created for him, and no no other team can take advantage of it because no other team has a pitcher who even hits outside of college anymore.

Melville isn't wrong, when Ohtani is pitching and is DH Roberts gets to make decisions that should actually hurt the team and they don't because of that rule. Every single other team that removes a player from the field of play and replaces them with another is then out of the game, but not Ohtani.

[renostl]

Bob Gibson...

1968 World Series Game 4
9 IP complete game
1 run, 5 strikeouts
10 strikeouts

hit 1 solo HR
scored 2 runs, had 2 RBI (was walked with the bases loaded getting another RBI and later scored)

Just another fun dominant game to think about

Game 7
1967 also

[BrummerStealsHome]

But he only went 6. A real man goes 9

Ha ha, you're singin' my tune. But it wasn't him, it's the wimpy management style of today's game. Alston, Lasorda, et al would have left him in to go 9 if he could. And there's a good chance he would have.

No, the Ohtani Rule is likely the only thing that took him out of the game at the moment he was lifted.
Think about the game sequence without bias or agenda - as I do in all things.
Ohtani pitched the beginning of the 7th of a 4-1 game, giving up a hit and a walk.
Potential tying run due up next.
Does Roberts take him out for a relief pitcher, knowing Ohtani (his best hitter is due to hit 2nd in the bottom of the inning)?
After all, given the game situation in that moment, they might need his bat later the same inning.
Or does he leave him in, facing the Brewers' lineup for a third time?
Tough choice.
<snip>

You're missing the point. Alston, Lasorda, Herzog, and all the great managers of that era would have left him in. They wouldn't fear the scenario you laid out. They'd want their best pitcher in theree to work through it. There's a greater thing in play here. A manager who shows confidence in his players, particularly his best players, particularly particularly when they get in a jam, gets the most out of ALL his players. Baseball has gotten too wimpy. They're afraid to fail. They're afraid they might get hurt. Man, take that risk. It's part of the game when you want to be a champion.

Respectfully, you are the one missing the point.
Alston, Lasorda, Herzog and EVERY MANAGER IN MLB HISTORY would have been required to make a decision in that moment.
All except Roberts, that is.
Because of a rule designed solely for Ohtani, Roberts was able to take him out AND leave him in.
No decision required.
No risk either way.
Only an advantage either way.

Whoosh. Every manager in every game throughout all time has to make decisions every minute out of every game. It's not some wonderful point you're making. They would not have taken him out of the game, no matter how you want to spin it.

[Melville]

Not really.
He and the Dodgers were given a grossly unfair advantage.
I suppose the corrupt Ohtani rule did however achieve the desired outcome.

Corrupt? Why? The rule would apply to another player that could pitch and hit as well. Do you have anyone in mind? Or is it corrupt because only player is capable of doing it.

I guess the NFL had a corrupt rule when "Jet Stream" Roy Green could play offense and defense in the same game.

Ohtani is an example of a true "unicorn".

It is a corrupt rule because it was put in place solely to drive revenue, gives one team an intentional lineup advantage over all others, forces 29 managers to manage a game one way and gives a free pass to the 30th, and makes equal competition a complete mockery.

Other teams can DH their pitchers.
No one stopping them.

No other team had a rule created to benefit just one player - and thereby benefit just that one team.

They didn't create the rule for Ohtani and the Dodgers.
The rule was a long time coming.
The same rule that was in the American League for how many years before Ohtani sir?
That's correct, this rule has been in effect in the American league forever now.
The American League could have used a pitcher to hit if they so choose to in the 80's, 90's, 2000's etc.
The rule wasn't made specifically for one team or guy.
It was modeled after the American League.

No, a pitcher removed from the mound could not have continued to hit.
That was changed solely to benefit Ohtani - and to keep the best player in MLB in the game for marketing purposes.
And last night it did exactly as designed.
Look at the marketing benefit from last night's game.

Yea it’s pretty pathetic MLB changed the rules to benefit one team and one player. It would have made the dodgers decide do we start ohtani in order to get him on the mound and lose his bat later in the game or DH him and have to go to a lesser pitcher oh don’t worry MLB has the dodgers back to make sure they have the advantage and don’t have to worry about it

Quality post on your part.
There is even more advantage to the Dodgers than what you correctly outlined above.
Would the Dodgers EVER bat Ohtani at leadoff if they knew that a relief pitcher would take over that spot in the batting order if Ohtani was lifted?
Of course not.
But due to the special rule designed to benefit just him and the Dodgers, he is able to leadoff the first inning with a HR, completely changing the game and giving his team a massive advantage in an elimination game.
The entire integrity of that game was corrupted from the very beginning.

Except that, again, this rule doesn't apply only to Shohei Ohtani. If any other player has the ability to pitch 6 innings and be a valuable enough hitter to remain in the game as a DH after they've finished pitching, they're more than welcome to do so.

I absolutely loathe the (Ef'En) LA Deferrals and can't wait for a salary cap and floor, but blaming this option that EVERY PLAYER can take advantage of is just kinda... bleh

C'mon now let's not be obtuse.

If Shohei Ohtani isn't in the league the rule is never instituted.

It was created for him, and no no other team can take advantage of it because no other team has a pitcher who even hits outside of college anymore.

Melville isn't wrong, when Ohtani is pitching and is DH Roberts gets to make decisions that should actually hurt the team and they don't because of that rule. Every single other team that removes a player from the field of play and replaces them with another is then out of the game, but not Ohtani.

Smart man.
And honest.
Clearly you understand this game and grasp the multiple ways in which the rule is designed to give Ohtani and the Dodgers an unfair advantage of every other team.

[Melville]

But he only went 6. A real man goes 9

Ha ha, you're singin' my tune. But it wasn't him, it's the wimpy management style of today's game. Alston, Lasorda, et al would have left him in to go 9 if he could. And there's a good chance he would have.

No, the Ohtani Rule is likely the only thing that took him out of the game at the moment he was lifted.
Think about the game sequence without bias or agenda - as I do in all things.
Ohtani pitched the beginning of the 7th of a 4-1 game, giving up a hit and a walk.
Potential tying run due up next.
Does Roberts take him out for a relief pitcher, knowing Ohtani (his best hitter is due to hit 2nd in the bottom of the inning)?
After all, given the game situation in that moment, they might need his bat later the same inning.
Or does he leave him in, facing the Brewers' lineup for a third time?
Tough choice.
<snip>

You're missing the point. Alston, Lasorda, Herzog, and all the great managers of that era would have left him in. They wouldn't fear the scenario you laid out. They'd want their best pitcher in theree to work through it. There's a greater thing in play here. A manager who shows confidence in his players, particularly his best players, particularly particularly when they get in a jam, gets the most out of ALL his players. Baseball has gotten too wimpy. They're afraid to fail. They're afraid they might get hurt. Man, take that risk. It's part of the game when you want to be a champion.

Respectfully, you are the one missing the point.
Alston, Lasorda, Herzog and EVERY MANAGER IN MLB HISTORY would have been required to make a decision in that moment.
All except Roberts, that is.
Because of a rule designed solely for Ohtani, Roberts was able to take him out AND leave him in.
No decision required.
No risk either way.
Only an advantage either way.

Whoosh. Every manager in every game throughout all time has to make decisions every minute out of every game. It's not some wonderful point you're making. They would not have taken him out of the game, no matter how you want to spin it.

It is a brilliant and succinct point I am making.
Roberts gets to take Ohtani out of a game AND leave him in the game.
No other team, no other manager, is given that same benefit.

[icon]

Why shouldn't MLB make an exception for the exceptional player? It makes all the sense in the world. A guy who can do that should get an exception. And the original rule should have accounted for that exception. It was a mistake in the beginning not to have an exception for that. So MLB corrected a mistake. BFD!

[TheJackBurton]

Why shouldn't MLB make an exception for the exceptional player? It makes all the sense in the world. A guy who can do that should get an exception. And the original rule should have accounted for that exception. It was a mistake in the beginning not to have an exception for that. So MLB corrected a mistake. BFD!

Well in that case, why not make exceptions for every player?

Why are we making exceptions for one individual player?

why not institute a rule that managers get to decide who stays in the batting order even if they are pulled from the field of play?