What have been the Cards biggest blunders?

[Youboughtit]

Winn won’t be expensive because he has no power. He’s a $15-$20m per year player. Wetherholt/ Doyle maybe but that’s 3 players. Legit WS contenders have multiple all star player pitching and hitters. Draft and develop only will never win. Adding elite FA is how all teams compete. Look at the Brewers they are more than 50% trade and FA

The Cardinals, like most teams, will never be able to afford adding multiple elite FAs (the Ohtanis, Sotos, Judges, Skubals, Skenes, etc. of the world).

The Cardinals may be able to trade for an elite player or two at the right time who is in their ARB-2 or ARB-3 year with their current small market club and the club knows they need to trade them for prospects before they leave via FA.

However, that just means that the Cardinals need to develop even more quality prospects - ones to feed the Cardinals ML roster and ones to be traded to obtain cost effective elite players.

Do you beleive that? Dewitt has $4.2B $ and is penny pinching his payroll. #12 franchise value should have #12 payroll. Not #20 that’s $212m currently and rising. Enough for 3 superstars

[WLTFE]

Winn won’t be expensive because he has no power. He’s a $15-$20m per year player. Wetherholt/ Doyle maybe but that’s 3 players. Legit WS contenders have multiple all star player pitching and hitters. Draft and develop only will never win. Adding elite FA is how all teams compete. Look at the Brewers they are more than 50% trade and FA

The Cardinals, like most teams, will never be able to afford adding multiple elite FAs (the Ohtanis, Sotos, Judges, Skubals, Skenes, etc. of the world).

The Cardinals may be able to trade for an elite player or two at the right time who is in their ARB-2 or ARB-3 year with their current small market club and the club knows they need to trade them for prospects before they leave via FA.

However, that just means that the Cardinals need to develop even more quality prospects - ones to feed the Cardinals ML roster and ones to be traded to obtain cost effective elite players.

Do you beleive that? Dewitt has $4.2B $ and is penny pinching his payroll. #12 franchise value should have #12 payroll. Not #20 that’s $212m currently and rising. Enough for 3 superstars

Watch it!... you'll be hearing from Baghdad Bob! And his fellow (donkey) kissers!

[rockondlouie]

Winn won’t be expensive because he has no power. He’s a $15-$20m per year player. Wetherholt/ Doyle maybe but that’s 3 players. Legit WS contenders have multiple all star player pitching and hitters. Draft and develop only will never win. Adding elite FA is how all teams compete. Look at the Brewers they are more than 50% trade and FA

The Cardinals, like most teams, will never be able to afford adding multiple elite FAs (the Ohtanis, Sotos, Judges, Skubals, Skenes, etc. of the world).

The Cardinals may be able to trade for an elite player or two at the right time who is in their ARB-2 or ARB-3 year with their current small market club and the club knows they need to trade them for prospects before they leave via FA.

However, that just means that the Cardinals need to develop even more quality prospects - ones to feed the Cardinals ML roster and ones to be traded to obtain cost effective elite players.

Do you beleive that? Dewitt has $4.2B $ and is penny pinching his payroll. #12 franchise value should have #12 payroll. Not #20 that’s $212m currently and rising. Enough for 3 superstars

+1

BDWJr could afford any FA in MLB not named S. Ohtani or J. Soto

[Voldemort]

Vern Rapp

Wash your filthy mouth out with soap.

Sorry, I had a moment of weakness.

[mattmitchl44]

Winn won’t be expensive because he has no power. He’s a $15-$20m per year player. Wetherholt/ Doyle maybe but that’s 3 players. Legit WS contenders have multiple all star player pitching and hitters. Draft and develop only will never win. Adding elite FA is how all teams compete. Look at the Brewers they are more than 50% trade and FA

The Cardinals, like most teams, will never be able to afford adding multiple elite FAs (the Ohtanis, Sotos, Judges, Skubals, Skenes, etc. of the world).

The Cardinals may be able to trade for an elite player or two at the right time who is in their ARB-2 or ARB-3 year with their current small market club and the club knows they need to trade them for prospects before they leave via FA.

However, that just means that the Cardinals need to develop even more quality prospects - ones to feed the Cardinals ML roster and ones to be traded to obtain cost effective elite players.

Do you beleive that? Dewitt has $4.2B $ and is penny pinching his payroll. #12 franchise value should have #12 payroll. Not #20 that’s $212m currently and rising. Enough for 3 superstars

I believe the Cardinals should be able to support what they have historically supported - a MLB payroll around 10th, 11th, 12th in the league.

But in the absence of having an exceptional amount of cost controlled young talent on the roster, even spending that much isn't going to get them past a "high mediocre" level. So I'm not concerned about what they are spending now, I'll be concerned with them raising payroll again in a few years when, hopefully, that have a lot more exceptional young players on the roster.

[Goldfan]

Interesting stat I saw on the twitters.
Team Revenue/Payroll
Mets 90%
LAD around 70%
Phils
.
.
.
.
.
Cards around 40%
So this narrative that the poor middle markets teams just can’t compete……is bunk. Almost ALL of the “poor” club are at the very bottom of payroll spend v Revenue. With MOST of the Large markets consuming HIGH % on payroll.

[Youboughtit]

Winn won’t be expensive because he has no power. He’s a $15-$20m per year player. Wetherholt/ Doyle maybe but that’s 3 players. Legit WS contenders have multiple all star player pitching and hitters. Draft and develop only will never win. Adding elite FA is how all teams compete. Look at the Brewers they are more than 50% trade and FA

The Cardinals, like most teams, will never be able to afford adding multiple elite FAs (the Ohtanis, Sotos, Judges, Skubals, Skenes, etc. of the world).

The Cardinals may be able to trade for an elite player or two at the right time who is in their ARB-2 or ARB-3 year with their current small market club and the club knows they need to trade them for prospects before they leave via FA.

However, that just means that the Cardinals need to develop even more quality prospects - ones to feed the Cardinals ML roster and ones to be traded to obtain cost effective elite players.

Do you beleive that? Dewitt has $4.2B $ and is penny pinching his payroll. #12 franchise value should have #12 payroll. Not #20 that’s $212m currently and rising. Enough for 3 superstars

I believe the Cardinals should be able to support what they have historically supported - a MLB payroll around 10th, 11th, 12th in the league.

But in the absence of having an exceptional amount of cost controlled young talent on the roster, even spending that much isn't going to get them past a "high mediocre" level. So I'm not concerned about what they are spending now, I'll be concerned with them raising payroll again in a few years when, hopefully, that have a lot more exceptional young players on the roster.

Recently ranked top 5 farm system with Wetherholt and Doyle. They have an abundance of great role players and adding 3-4 legit superstars in their prime would make them a top 10-12 payroll and at minimum a contender for NLC. Just not to the Dodgers level but no one is. I am concerned now because the owner is using attendance as an excuse and attendance will not rerurn until he spends so will we ever see a contender again? Not using draft and develop only.

[Youboughtit]

Interesting stat I saw on the twitters.
Team Revenue/Payroll
Mets 90%
LAD around 70%
Phils
.
.
.
.
.
Cards around 40%
So this narrative that the poor middle markets teams just can’t compete……is bunk. Almost ALL of the “poor” club are at the very bottom of payroll spend v Revenue. With MOST of the Large markets consuming HIGH % on payroll.

I read Cardinals were 34%. One of the lowest in baseball

[ICCFIM2]

Interesting stat I saw on the twitters.
Team Revenue/Payroll
Mets 90%
LAD around 70%
Phils
.
.
.
.
.
Cards around 40%
So this narrative that the poor middle markets teams just can’t compete……is bunk. Almost ALL of the “poor” club are at the very bottom of payroll spend v Revenue. With MOST of the Large markets consuming HIGH % on payroll.

I read Cardinals were 34%. One of the lowest in baseball

That is a bit hard to believe. Their payroll was $135M per Cots this year. At 34%, that would put revenue at $400M. I find it difficult to believe they made that much this year in revenue. The TV rights were reported to be reduced to around $60M. Attendance shrank down to 2.3M or so. At best their revenue was $300M and even that appears unlikely. Their 2023 revenue was estimated at $372M. Reduce TV revenue by $15M and attendance my 1M fans and it is significantly lower than $372M. In any case, holding them to a $180-$200M payroll is not unreasonable given their likely revenues.

[Youboughtit]

Interesting stat I saw on the twitters.
Team Revenue/Payroll
Mets 90%
LAD around 70%
Phils
.
.
.
.
.
Cards around 40%
So this narrative that the poor middle markets teams just can’t compete……is bunk. Almost ALL of the “poor” club are at the very bottom of payroll spend v Revenue. With MOST of the Large markets consuming HIGH % on payroll.

I read Cardinals were 34%. One of the lowest in baseball

That is a bit hard to believe. Their payroll was $135M per Cots this year. At 34%, that would put revenue at $400M. I find it difficult to believe they made that much this year in revenue. The TV rights were reported to be reduced to around $60M. Attendance shrank down to 2.3M or so. At best their revenue was $300M and even that appears unlikely. Their 2023 revenue was estimated at $372M. Reduce TV revenue by $15M and attendance my 1M fans and it is significantly lower than $372M. In any case, holding them to a $180-$200M payroll is not unreasonable given their likely revenues.

The general fund is $120 - $150m payment per team for merch and national TV. Concessions Parking Ballpark Village? You’re missing where the real $ comes from which is the luxury tax. They will be a payee for first time this year by choice of lowering payroll.

[butsir01]

This is the one that sticks in my mind........Gibson, Reuss, Carlton, Torrez, Briles. What a rotation they could have had for years. Perhaps another WS title or two. Trading Carlton, Reuss, and Torrez was the downfall of the 70's. Carlton for Rick Wise, Reuss for Scipio Spinks and Lance Clemons. Torrez for Bob Reynolds. After Gibson retired they would still have had a great rotation.

That short period of time killed a dynasty.

Indeed, that was ridiculous and very wasteful of talent and opportunity.

I would say Gussie’s kid and the brewery's suit crowd, who hated baseball. When we needed pitching at the TD, we got Todd Burns, which was better than Mo got us in 2015.Bing got us Jack Lamabe in ‘64.

[mattmitchl44]

Winn won’t be expensive because he has no power. He’s a $15-$20m per year player. Wetherholt/ Doyle maybe but that’s 3 players. Legit WS contenders have multiple all star player pitching and hitters. Draft and develop only will never win. Adding elite FA is how all teams compete. Look at the Brewers they are more than 50% trade and FA

The Cardinals, like most teams, will never be able to afford adding multiple elite FAs (the Ohtanis, Sotos, Judges, Skubals, Skenes, etc. of the world).

The Cardinals may be able to trade for an elite player or two at the right time who is in their ARB-2 or ARB-3 year with their current small market club and the club knows they need to trade them for prospects before they leave via FA.

However, that just means that the Cardinals need to develop even more quality prospects - ones to feed the Cardinals ML roster and ones to be traded to obtain cost effective elite players.

Do you beleive that? Dewitt has $4.2B $ and is penny pinching his payroll. #12 franchise value should have #12 payroll. Not #20 that’s $212m currently and rising. Enough for 3 superstars

I believe the Cardinals should be able to support what they have historically supported - a MLB payroll around 10th, 11th, 12th in the league.

But in the absence of having an exceptional amount of cost controlled young talent on the roster, even spending that much isn't going to get them past a "high mediocre" level. So I'm not concerned about what they are spending now, I'll be concerned with them raising payroll again in a few years when, hopefully, that have a lot more exceptional young players on the roster.

Recently ranked top 5 farm system with Wetherholt and Doyle. They have an abundance of great role players and adding 3-4 legit superstars in their prime would make them a top 10-12 payroll and at minimum a contender for NLC. Just not to the Dodgers level but no one is. I am concerned now because the owner is using attendance as an excuse and attendance will not rerurn until he spends so will we ever see a contender again? Not using draft and develop only.

They need to get Wetherholt, Doyle, etc. to the majors and demonstrating high productivity at that level for a year or two before I worry about them adding expensive FAs to fill holes on the roster.