Mailloux sucked last night

[TheJackBurton]

I find it a little strange that they traded away a 20-25g guy for a 4-6 Dman who isn't established. Seriously, Kessel couldn't have filled in a season till one of the other hopefuls were ready? Did they really need Mailloux so bad he was worth 25g? Only time will tell but Mailloux has to become a "good" top 4 dman just to break even in this deal and all Bolduc has to do is score 20 a season to look like a good deal. This deal is a bit of a head scratcher. I don't see the same potential in Mailloux as Army did.

See there's the issue.

At this point, even though he had 19, Bolduc isn't a 20-25 goal guy until he actually does it.

Now obviously based on last year he certainly has that potential so there's no discounting it, but saying he is, and him actually doing it are two completely different things.

We have Jirichek and that's basically it and Kessell has shown he's likely a tweener, at least with us, so it's extremely doubtful he could have covered at a NHL level until others came along.

Was trading for Mailloux a gamble? Sure, but there's never a reward if you don't take a risk. If you want to always play it safe then mediocre is all you will ever be.

[TheJackBurton]

I can remember a lot of negativity about Pietrangelo his first couple of years as he got bounced down to Juniors and the AHL..."bad pick...he's not good...he won't be good, etc." And I also remember on this Forum people questioning just a couple of years ago that "Bolduc won't be any good, he should be showing more, he doesn't have the strength, lacks defensive ability to achieve at this level, bad pick, etc."
Hey, Iike Bolduc a lot. Great skater, great hands. Sure I'm sorry he is gone. But we need size, skilled prospects for our D. Sure there is Lidstien, Ralph, Jiricek and others potentially, but Mailloux has the tools and is more physically developed right now.
The rush to write him off is tiring. He'll be fine.

I don't think you have to be writing him off to not like the trade, there are lots of players that I like and would like to have that I would not have traded Bolduc for.

Right but the people who don’t want to actually discuss that aspect set up the strawman so that they don’t have to acknowledge it.

It was not a good value trade on its face and that’s 95% of the reason anyone is critiquing LM’s game at all at this point. We all know he’s inexperienced and we all know it will take time for him and we all know why the Blues traded a winger for a RHD. The question is why did we trade a guy we saw develop from nothing to decent value last year in exchange for a new square 1 guy with a new set of questions and uncertainties.

Quite frankly it's positional value.

A RHD man, currently, is way more highly valued than a 2nd or 3rd line winger.

We essentially just drafted Bolduc's replacement. He might actually be an even better player, and has a legitimate shot of making the team next year.

Other than Jiricek we didn't have another potential top 4 RHD in the system and quite frankly at the end of last year Jiricek looked like he was years away.

With an extremely productive off season he has looked much better but he still might be 2 years away, we needed a RHD man.

It's the equivalent of trading for a starting pitcher in MLB, a left tackle in the NFL that are still cost controlled. Even if they are mediocre they will require a really good return because those players are hard to get and they are expensive if they are MLB or NFL ready.

If the argument is we overpaid, the overpayment wasn't much. About the only thing was maybe attaching a draft pick to it, that's about it. In the overall realm of it though, it wasn't the equivalent of Pronger for Brewer, Woywitka and spare parts (yes that is used for hyperbole to illustrate the point)

[MiamiLaw]

I can remember a lot of negativity about Pietrangelo his first couple of years as he got bounced down to Juniors and the AHL..."bad pick...he's not good...he won't be good, etc." And I also remember on this Forum people questioning just a couple of years ago that "Bolduc won't be any good, he should be showing more, he doesn't have the strength, lacks defensive ability to achieve at this level, bad pick, etc."
Hey, Iike Bolduc a lot. Great skater, great hands. Sure I'm sorry he is gone. But we need size, skilled prospects for our D. Sure there is Lidstien, Ralph, Jiricek and others potentially, but Mailloux has the tools and is more physically developed right now.
The rush to write him off is tiring. He'll be fine.

I don't think you have to be writing him off to not like the trade, there are lots of players that I like and would like to have that I would not have traded Bolduc for.

Right but the people who don’t want to actually discuss that aspect set up the strawman so that they don’t have to acknowledge it.

It was not a good value trade on its face and that’s 95% of the reason anyone is critiquing LM’s game at all at this point. We all know he’s inexperienced and we all know it will take time for him and we all know why the Blues traded a winger for a RHD. The question is why did we trade a guy we saw develop from nothing to decent value last year in exchange for a new square 1 guy with a new set of questions and uncertainties.

Quite frankly it's positional value.

A RHD man, currently, is way more highly valued than a 2nd or 3rd line winger.

We essentially just drafted Bolduc's replacement. He might actually be an even better player, and has a legitimate shot of making the team next year.

Other than Jiricek we didn't have another potential top 4 RHD in the system and quite frankly at the end of last year Jiricek looked like he was years away.

With an extremely productive off season he has looked much better but he still might be 2 years away, we needed a RHD man.

It's the equivalent of trading for a starting pitcher in MLB, a left tackle in the NFL that are still cost controlled. Even if they are mediocre they will require a really good return because those players are hard to get and they are expensive if they are MLB or NFL ready.

If the argument is we overpaid, the overpayment wasn't much. About the only thing was maybe attaching a draft pick to it, that's about it. In the overall realm of it though, it wasn't the equivalent of Pronger for Brewer, Woywitka and spare parts (yes that is used for hyperbole to illustrate the point)

Well yea, but the question is whether LM was a guy you needed to pay that kind of premium for. He had almost no experience and was not particularly thought highly of around the league, especially his defense. He had his own baggage and MTL had to issue an apology for drafting him. I just will never understand why the Blues felt that trading a guy who clearly had something going for a complete unknown for the sole reason of being a RHD.

I am starting to think Tim is on to something when he says it was something else because the entire hockey world was shaking their heads at the time and they are essentially laughing now. Obviously Bolduc had a poor playoffs, but there are plenty of guys on this roster who are sub-optimal playoff performers. Hard for me to imagine why a team that felt Buchnevich was a guy to invest in would want to dump a guy like Bolduc.

At the end of the day, to the annoyance of a lot of people here I know, I have just been very underwhelmed with Doug's vision for winning hockey since the Cup.

[TheJackBurton]

I can remember a lot of negativity about Pietrangelo his first couple of years as he got bounced down to Juniors and the AHL..."bad pick...he's not good...he won't be good, etc." And I also remember on this Forum people questioning just a couple of years ago that "Bolduc won't be any good, he should be showing more, he doesn't have the strength, lacks defensive ability to achieve at this level, bad pick, etc."
Hey, Iike Bolduc a lot. Great skater, great hands. Sure I'm sorry he is gone. But we need size, skilled prospects for our D. Sure there is Lidstien, Ralph, Jiricek and others potentially, but Mailloux has the tools and is more physically developed right now.
The rush to write him off is tiring. He'll be fine.

I don't think you have to be writing him off to not like the trade, there are lots of players that I like and would like to have that I would not have traded Bolduc for.

Right but the people who don’t want to actually discuss that aspect set up the strawman so that they don’t have to acknowledge it.

It was not a good value trade on its face and that’s 95% of the reason anyone is critiquing LM’s game at all at this point. We all know he’s inexperienced and we all know it will take time for him and we all know why the Blues traded a winger for a RHD. The question is why did we trade a guy we saw develop from nothing to decent value last year in exchange for a new square 1 guy with a new set of questions and uncertainties.

Quite frankly it's positional value.

A RHD man, currently, is way more highly valued than a 2nd or 3rd line winger.

We essentially just drafted Bolduc's replacement. He might actually be an even better player, and has a legitimate shot of making the team next year.

Other than Jiricek we didn't have another potential top 4 RHD in the system and quite frankly at the end of last year Jiricek looked like he was years away.

With an extremely productive off season he has looked much better but he still might be 2 years away, we needed a RHD man.

It's the equivalent of trading for a starting pitcher in MLB, a left tackle in the NFL that are still cost controlled. Even if they are mediocre they will require a really good return because those players are hard to get and they are expensive if they are MLB or NFL ready.

If the argument is we overpaid, the overpayment wasn't much. About the only thing was maybe attaching a draft pick to it, that's about it. In the overall realm of it though, it wasn't the equivalent of Pronger for Brewer, Woywitka and spare parts (yes that is used for hyperbole to illustrate the point)

Well yea, but the question is whether LM was a guy you needed to pay that kind of premium for. He had almost no experience and was not particularly thought highly of around the league, especially his defense. He had his own baggage and MTL had to issue an apology for drafting him. I just will never understand why the Blues felt that trading a guy who clearly had something going for a complete unknown for the sole reason of being a RHD.

I am starting to think Tim is on to something when he says it was something else because the entire hockey world was shaking their heads at the time and they are essentially laughing now. Obviously Bolduc had a poor playoffs, but there are plenty of guys on this roster who are sub-optimal playoff performers. Hard for me to imagine why a team that felt Buchnevich was a guy to invest in would want to dump a guy like Bolduc.

At the end of the day, to the annoyance of a lot of people here I know, I have just been very underwhelmed with Doug's vision for winning hockey since the Cup.

I guess where you and I differ on this is the value of Bolduc.

I don't see him as a premium, I see him as an above average. The premium would have been Neighbours, Snuggerud or Dvorsky.

Neighbours has already well established himself as top 2 line forward in the league and a great all around player on a solid contract extension.

Snuggerud had a better playoffs and is under control for 2 more years and an argument can be made has a better shot and is a better passer.

Dvorsky is expected to be our #2 center as early as this year or more than likely next season so he was essentially an untouchable.

Like I said an argument can be made for an overpayment because of his finish to the season, but it wasn't so massive an overpayment that the Habs feel like they out and out robbed us.

[MiamiLaw]

I can remember a lot of negativity about Pietrangelo his first couple of years as he got bounced down to Juniors and the AHL..."bad pick...he's not good...he won't be good, etc." And I also remember on this Forum people questioning just a couple of years ago that "Bolduc won't be any good, he should be showing more, he doesn't have the strength, lacks defensive ability to achieve at this level, bad pick, etc."
Hey, Iike Bolduc a lot. Great skater, great hands. Sure I'm sorry he is gone. But we need size, skilled prospects for our D. Sure there is Lidstien, Ralph, Jiricek and others potentially, but Mailloux has the tools and is more physically developed right now.
The rush to write him off is tiring. He'll be fine.

I don't think you have to be writing him off to not like the trade, there are lots of players that I like and would like to have that I would not have traded Bolduc for.

Right but the people who don’t want to actually discuss that aspect set up the strawman so that they don’t have to acknowledge it.

It was not a good value trade on its face and that’s 95% of the reason anyone is critiquing LM’s game at all at this point. We all know he’s inexperienced and we all know it will take time for him and we all know why the Blues traded a winger for a RHD. The question is why did we trade a guy we saw develop from nothing to decent value last year in exchange for a new square 1 guy with a new set of questions and uncertainties.

Quite frankly it's positional value.

A RHD man, currently, is way more highly valued than a 2nd or 3rd line winger.

We essentially just drafted Bolduc's replacement. He might actually be an even better player, and has a legitimate shot of making the team next year.

Other than Jiricek we didn't have another potential top 4 RHD in the system and quite frankly at the end of last year Jiricek looked like he was years away.

With an extremely productive off season he has looked much better but he still might be 2 years away, we needed a RHD man.

It's the equivalent of trading for a starting pitcher in MLB, a left tackle in the NFL that are still cost controlled. Even if they are mediocre they will require a really good return because those players are hard to get and they are expensive if they are MLB or NFL ready.

If the argument is we overpaid, the overpayment wasn't much. About the only thing was maybe attaching a draft pick to it, that's about it. In the overall realm of it though, it wasn't the equivalent of Pronger for Brewer, Woywitka and spare parts (yes that is used for hyperbole to illustrate the point)

Well yea, but the question is whether LM was a guy you needed to pay that kind of premium for. He had almost no experience and was not particularly thought highly of around the league, especially his defense. He had his own baggage and MTL had to issue an apology for drafting him. I just will never understand why the Blues felt that trading a guy who clearly had something going for a complete unknown for the sole reason of being a RHD.

I am starting to think Tim is on to something when he says it was something else because the entire hockey world was shaking their heads at the time and they are essentially laughing now. Obviously Bolduc had a poor playoffs, but there are plenty of guys on this roster who are sub-optimal playoff performers. Hard for me to imagine why a team that felt Buchnevich was a guy to invest in would want to dump a guy like Bolduc.

At the end of the day, to the annoyance of a lot of people here I know, I have just been very underwhelmed with Doug's vision for winning hockey since the Cup.

I guess where you and I differ on this is the value of Bolduc.

I don't see him as a premium, I see him as an above average. The premium would have been Neighbours, Snuggerud or Dvorsky.

Neighbours has already well established himself as top 2 line forward in the league and a great all around player on a solid contract extension.

Snuggerud had a better playoffs and is under control for 2 more years and an argument can be made has a better shot and is a better passer.

Dvorsky is expected to be our #2 center as early as this year or more than likely next season so he was essentially an untouchable.

Like I said an argument can be made for an overpayment because of his finish to the season, but it wasn't so massive an overpayment that the Habs feel like they out and out robbed us.

Netboy just said the same thing in the other thread and, yes that is it for sure. I admit I was particularly excited about Bolduc after what he did at the end of last year.

I have nothing against picking up LM or any other player when there is a need, but I feel the Blues overpaid badly. I am not expecting everyone to agree but I really want to be clear that I have nothing against LM and hope he does well.

[britishblue]

A 2 game sample size is nowhere near enough to judge this.

Lets see what we have after 40+ games, after 2 seasons etc.

[MiamiLaw]

A 2 game sample size is nowhere near enough to judge this.

Lets see what we have after 40+ games, after 2 seasons etc.

But we can still discuss whether the gamble itself was worth it. Just because you win the lottery doesn't mean you had a much much greater chance to lose and if you're gambling with the rent money, it doesn't mean it was a good decision. Whether Bolduc is the "rent money" is really the only part of the discussion that can be argued right now.

[britishblue]

A 2 game sample size is nowhere near enough to judge this.

Lets see what we have after 40+ games, after 2 seasons etc.

But we can still discuss whether the gamble itself was worth it. Just because you win the lottery doesn't mean you had a much much greater chance to lose and if you're gambling with the rent money, it doesn't mean it was a good decision. Whether Bolduc is the "rent money" is really the only part of the discussion that can be argued right now.

Oh i totally agree.

Without knowing what, if any, deals were on table it's hard to judge though.

I am fine with trading Bolduc for a potential top 4 RHD though.

Whether Mailoux was the right RHD however is something thats going to take a lot more than 2 games to determine.

[dhsux]

The deal was done on the EVALUATION of Mailloux.

Bolduc had the numbers, the one year of productivity....19 goals.....and the Habs jumped at it. Habs are fine with their move because of that. Their fans presently thrilled to have the Frenchy leading in the goal scoring column.

But for STL this is a GAMBLE because they are counting on accurate scouting and evaluators to substantiate giving up Zach to land the more prized possession and need for the Blues.

The Blues did NOT make this deal 1 for 1 straight up based upon current performance. They saw the 19 goals from Zach and still made the deal. Eyes were wide open.

It's actually a rather unusual trade not seen every day. It starts off deliberately lopsided. But the only thing that matters is how it ends up.

[aroos]

I was at the game in Vancouver tonight. Mailloux played primarily with Broberg and was clearly given sheltered minutes by Montgomery. I don’t remember him being on for a defensive zone face-off.

With these limitations in mind, Mailloux played very well. He’s big, moves the puck well and is a terrific skater.

It’s easy to see why the Blues coveted Mailloux. He has the potential to be a top 4 defenceman or better. There aren’t a lot of right shot defencemen in the league with his combination of size and skating ability.

Give him some time.

[Moberly Blues]

The posters know so much more than Army LMAO

[John Cocktoastin]

He did look like he played a more physical game tonight, which is great to see.

[Chris2fer]

Defensemen take longer to get up to speed in the NHL, this is known and rarely does a young defenseman step right into the NHL outside of a few high end exceptions. This was always going to be about looking back at this trade in 2 years.

A middle pairing defenseman is more important than middle 6 wingers, full stop. That, along with learning a new system, coaching, etc, I'm willing to give it some time before getting concerned.

Sure, it's a risk. Got to give to get. This trade always about what it looks like in 2-3 years, not today.

[Aesa]

Defensemen take longer to get up to speed in the NHL, this is known and rarely does a young defenseman step right into the NHL outside of a few high end exceptions. This was always going to be about looking back at this trade in 2 years.

A middle pairing defenseman is more important than middle 6 wingers, full stop. That, along with learning a new system, coaching, etc, I'm willing to give it some time before getting concerned.

Sure, it's a risk. Got to give to get. This trade always about what it looks like in 2-3 years, not today.

Stop using common sense Chris2fer. It ruins the ramblings of the Negative Nancy Narative.

[Frank Underwood]

I was at the game in Vancouver tonight. Mailloux played primarily with Broberg and was clearly given sheltered minutes by Montgomery. I don’t remember him being on for a defensive zone face-off.

With these limitations in mind, Mailloux played very well. He’s big, moves the puck well and is a terrific skater.

It’s easy to see why the Blues coveted Mailloux. He has the potential to be a top 4 defenceman or better. There aren’t a lot of right shot defencemen in the league with his combination of size and skating ability.

Give him some time.

Exactly. For those of us old enough to remember Pronger when he first came to the Blues, it wasn’t pretty. The tough love Keenan gave him turned him into one of the most dominant defensemen I have ever seen (maybe the only good thing Keenan ever did for the Blues). Not saying Mailloux is going to be Pronger, but let’s not rush to judge the kid after 3 games. Oh wait, this is Blues Talk and we have 5 or 6 Hall of Fame general managers on here sharing their knowledge with us. They already know how this is going to turn out.

[b-a-a-a-rclay]

At times the game looks too fast for him right now. It will slow down for him from his perspective with more reps. The Blues knew this was going to be the case. This shouldn't be surprising to anyone who follows hockey.