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Donovan and Burly are 2 of the best 4 hitters we have. But neither is so valuable as a trade chip that they would bring back a legit TOR starter. I say keep them. Neither is going to cost a bunch of money next year. Noot, Gorman and Walker have little to no value as trade chips. Walker and Gorman need to be in Memphis next yr and hit their way back to StL. Noot can be shipped off and if not possible DFA. I'd say keep him as a 4th OF but Oli has such a man crush on him he'd start him every day.

3dender wrote: ↑30 Sep 2025 07:17 amI can only speak for myself, but my disdain is a product of how much some fans overvalue him plus Oli deciding he was a favorite since last year, well before he earned it.

Your assessment is pretty accurate imo. He's a good-not-elite hitter (not enough power for that), and overall an average player due to his defensive shortcomings. I'm in favor of trading him because he can bring back more than Noot, and he's not a good enough hitter for me to want the team to just hand him DH or 1B.

I was pretty negative on Burleson for the last few year for similar reasons as you, but I have to say he proved me wrong this year.

But yea, a 124 wRC+ is pretty (bleep) good, but not elite. Maybe the power will develop as he starts to get into his prime. But that defense does weigh down his overall value as a player. He'll be 27 next year. I would say I'm good with keeping him if you can trade Contreras. If you can't trade Contreras, then I think you probably have to trade him. He's not only likely to bring back something of value, but he's redundant on a team that has a veteran 1B/DH that they can't trade and is under contract through 2027.

It sucks, but look at what poor roster management has done to this team for the last few years. We don't need 5 1B/DHs who we end up playing in LF and RF and kill us defensively, so we then need to rely on a CF who can barely manage a 75 wRC+ to cover all kinds of ground. You gotta make some tough decisions.

3dender wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 09:51 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 09:40 am The standards for corner OFers around here have dropped off a cliff.

Guess that's why this franchise hasn't had a decent one in forever.

This obsession with Nootbar is either willful ignorance or outright stupidity.

How many seasons does someone need?

Who's obsessed? The only reason I prefer keeping Nootbaar is because Burly will get back more in trade. It's called being rational.

It was a general statement. Wasn't singling ayone out.

Besides trading a more productive player yo give a lesser player more playing time isn't going to improve the team.

What are you going to get in trading Burleson without him being part of a package?

At this point he has more value here as a cheap option and a one dimensional player than he would in a trade.

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 17:54 pm If Donovan and Burleson are traded, next years team won’t even be worth watching. It’s doubtful they’ll even get players back as good as them, so they’ve just set team back even further!
Wetherholt won’t be any good either, because he’ll have no protection at all. If the Cardinals trade those two, they win 70 games next year.

There's nothing wrong with shifting value from spots of redundancy to positions of need, like starting pitching.

Donovan is most valuable when used as an infielder. With Wetherholt coming, Donovan will be essentially cast as an outfielder now, limiting his value significantly. Burleson needs to be at DH or 1B only, again somewhat blocked by Contreras and Herrera. I don't think both of these two will get traded. Likely one or the other.

StlMike1969 wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 19:41 pm
I just have a hard time understanding how much disdain is cast on Alec. 2025 he hits .290, 18 HR's, commits only 5 errors in 148 GP. Yeah he ain't no Ozzie Smith and most likely 1st base is going to be his best position but he is hardly bad at it.

He's one of the top 10 worst outfielders, defensively, in all of baseball over the last several years. Not being Ozzie Smith is quite the understatement.

If they are keeping Herrera (likely DH) and keeping Contreras (likely 1B), then Burleson is a man without a position.

Also, 4 errors at 1B in 350 innings is a lot. Contreras had 9 in 1000 innings. Alonso had the most at 10 in 1400 innings. I think he's fine at 1B, but it's not a given.

PadsFS07 wrote: ↑30 Sep 2025 09:07 am

StlMike1969 wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 19:41 pm
I just have a hard time understanding how much disdain is cast on Alec. 2025 he hits .290, 18 HR's, commits only 5 errors in 148 GP. Yeah he ain't no Ozzie Smith and most likely 1st base is going to be his best position but he is hardly bad at it.

Also, 4 errors at 1B in 350 innings is a lot. Contreras had 9 in 1000 innings. Alonso had the most at 10 in 1400 innings. I think he's fine at 1B, but it's not a given.

He missed 2 scoops on back-to-back days last week, one lack of skill/reflexes and one lack of effort. I believe both resulted in errors assigned to the thrower.

11WSChamps wrote: ↑30 Sep 2025 08:53 am

3dender wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 09:51 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 09:40 am The standards for corner OFers around here have dropped off a cliff.

Guess that's why this franchise hasn't had a decent one in forever.

This obsession with Nootbar is either willful ignorance or outright stupidity.

How many seasons does someone need?

Who's obsessed? The only reason I prefer keeping Nootbaar is because Burly will get back more in trade. It's called being rational.

It was a general statement. Wasn't singling ayone out.

Besides trading a more productive player yo give a lesser player more playing time isn't going to improve the team.

What are you going to get in trading Burleson without him being part of a package?

At this point he has more value here as a cheap option and a one dimensional player than he would in a trade.

Burleson + Crooks gets you well on the way to a cost-controlled SP... maybe not TOR but at least someone who can pitch 150 innings next year.

imetsatchelpaige wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 23:40 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 18:42 pm

3dender wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 07:31 am On "Cardinals Territory" pod yesterday.

https://x.com/RedbirdFarmhand/status/19 ... 5685540319

This what I've been saying for a few months needs to happen. Most to least likely imo: Gorman, Noot, Burly, Donovan.

I'd prefer it to be Gorman and Burly but I bet the team can't quit Burly in the most Brokeback Mountain way possible, so it'll be Gorman and Noot. I'll only be disappointed if Donovan gets dealt.

Two of those guys were among the top 10 hitters in the National League this year. Keep them. Trade the other two.

Well, there’s a startling statistic.
Lord.

I know, right? Simple measures of success are routinely ignored around here.

With guys like Gorman and Walker, they don't cost much at all so you don't trade them unless you get a better player back. If you are going to get a sub 1 WAR guy, just keep the guy you have, send him down, and see what he does.

PadsFS07 wrote: ↑30 Sep 2025 09:07 am

StlMike1969 wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 19:41 pm
I just have a hard time understanding how much disdain is cast on Alec. 2025 he hits .290, 18 HR's, commits only 5 errors in 148 GP. Yeah he ain't no Ozzie Smith and most likely 1st base is going to be his best position but he is hardly bad at it.

He's one of the top 10 worst outfielders, defensively, in all of baseball over the last several years. Not being Ozzie Smith is quite the understatement.

If they are keeping Herrera (likely DH) and keeping Contreras (likely 1B), then Burleson is a man without a position.

Also, 4 errors at 1B in 350 innings is a lot. Contreras had 9 in 1000 innings. Alonso had the most at 10 in 1400 innings. I think he's fine at 1B, but it's not a given.

I am of the belief that they need to make a legit push to trade Willy C. Put Burly at 1st and give the man a shot to actually settle into a position. Maybe if he has a chance to just be good at two things he may yet blossom into a 5 to 6 year above average hitter and at least an average not going to hurt you defender. Same thing for Donovan. The biggest part about building a winning team is not having just the star players but the compliment to them also. Donovan and Burleson are legit 5 and 6 hole players. Wetherholt I have a feeling will become a great 2 hole hitter. That right there is one third of the next 5 to 6 years lineup before guys start to decline. Bring along at least 2 power bats and a high on base guy for leadoff and you have the makings of a legit playoff team. Winn who is not that bad is one of the 7 to 9 guys leaving only two spots for a couple average, run of the road guys.

Willy c will not be anywhere on this team past 2027 which will most likely be a lockout year. The best Burleson is bringing back right now is a decent AA prospect or a #4 or #5 pitcher. That is not really helping a team in rebuild mode. Makes no sense to get rid of a couple of guys like Burly and Donovan just to try to find guys with similar numbers later on after you found your power guys. Just lock them in now, get rid of the dead weight and work on developing the minors guys.

PadsFS07 wrote: ↑30 Sep 2025 09:07 am

StlMike1969 wrote: ↑29 Sep 2025 19:41 pm
I just have a hard time understanding how much disdain is cast on Alec. 2025 he hits .290, 18 HR's, commits only 5 errors in 148 GP. Yeah he ain't no Ozzie Smith and most likely 1st base is going to be his best position but he is hardly bad at it.

He's one of the top 10 worst outfielders, defensively, in all of baseball over the last several years. Not being Ozzie Smith is quite the understatement.

If they are keeping Herrera (likely DH) and keeping Contreras (likely 1B), then Burleson is a man without a position.

Also, 4 errors at 1B in 350 innings is a lot. Contreras had 9 in 1000 innings. Alonso had the most at 10 in 1400 innings. I think he's fine at 1B, but it's not a given.

That and there is real risk his hitting regresses significantly in the near future. His value to the team is not worth the risk. It is time to cash out on him.