STLtoday.com

Posted: **22 Sep 2025 15:00 pm**

Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 14:57 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 14:37 pm
Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 13:24 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 12:06 pm
ramfandan wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 12:04 pm
Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 11:09 am It seems like if he were going anywhere, he'd be there by now. If BDW wasn't willing to eat the contract this year, why would he be willing next year?
Answer: Because in 2025 he lost over 1 million fans in attendance in 2025 ??
The real difference is arenado will probably be willing to waive his NTC this time
But at this point, will there be anyone to waive it for?
Oh yea with him going to back to gold glove defense there will definitely be takers as long as the cardinals eat money which I think they will do to get rid of him
I want to believe, but I don't think things have changed that much in the last 6 months. Is anything, NA's value has plummeted (he's not going to win the GG this year). I doubt BDW's appetite for eating money has increased.

It’s not really eating money at this point. It’s gaining money.

Posted: **22 Sep 2025 15:12 pm**

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:47 am Just my 2 cents - it would be idiotic to eat a large chunk of Arenado’s salary to get rid of him, only to give the 3B job to Gorman.

I hope there is a better plan than that.

There had better be a plan that is NOT Gorman.

Posted: **22 Sep 2025 15:14 pm**

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 15:00 pm
Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 14:57 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 14:37 pm
Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 13:24 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 12:06 pm
ramfandan wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 12:04 pm
Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 11:09 am It seems like if he were going anywhere, he'd be there by now. If BDW wasn't willing to eat the contract this year, why would he be willing next year?
Answer: Because in 2025 he lost over 1 million fans in attendance in 2025 ??
The real difference is arenado will probably be willing to waive his NTC this time
But at this point, will there be anyone to waive it for?
Oh yea with him going to back to gold glove defense there will definitely be takers as long as the cardinals eat money which I think they will do to get rid of him
I want to believe, but I don't think things have changed that much in the last 6 months. Is anything, NA's value has plummeted (he's not going to win the GG this year). I doubt BDW's appetite for eating money has increased.
It’s not really eating money at this point. It’s gaining money.

I agree. But that was also true in March, and every month since. It's possible Mo was the one who didn't want to swallow his pride and ask for NA to be discounted. In that case, something has changed (or is about to).

But if, as we all suspect, it was BDW who didn't want a major markdown, I just don't see how anything is different. If anything, it makes less sense to pay NA to leave now than it did in the spring. If what you want is prospects for a rebuild, then trading Gorman seems like the move.

Posted: **22 Sep 2025 15:14 pm**

russellhammond wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 10:07 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:17 am
Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:03 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:52 am
Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:47 am Just my 2 cents - it would be idiotic to eat a large chunk of Arenado’s salary to get rid of him, only to give the 3B job to Gorman.

I hope there is a better plan than that.
The primary motive should be moving Arenado.

Who he’s replaced with in the near term shouldn’t be something to worry about.

I hope they trade him even if it means eating half of his salary.
Personally I would trade Donovan, Nootbaar, and Gorman.
That gives LF to Herrera, RF to Burleson, 3B to Arenado for 2 years, and 2B to Wetherholt.

And I don’t see any good reason to keep Gorman around. He has been nothing short of terrible and it’s no longer a small sample size.

Just what exactly does eating a large chunk of money and moving Arenado accomplish?

A .700 OPS Arenado at least helps due to defense.

A .720 OPS Gorman doesn’t help the team in any way.
I too would like to trade Donovan and Nootbar. Trade Gorman? Only if he's involved in some interesting trade since his value is worth little. Gorman has shown a lot of potential, and he's only 25! But he's giving me Phil Plantier vibes.

But about Arenado...Maybe NA at 3B would be better than Gorman. But trading him and having around 12mil next year to spend on pitching might be the better move. Even if it means Saggese is playing a lot of 3B...
2022 - "He's only 22."
2023 - "He's only 23."
2024 - "He's only 24."
2025 - "He's only 25."
When does Gorman become something other than his age?
And potential? Here's his potential...Next season he has a really good chance of being 26.

Very well done, Russell.

Posted: **22 Sep 2025 15:17 pm**

Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 15:14 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 15:00 pm
Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 14:57 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 14:37 pm
Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 13:24 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 12:06 pm
ramfandan wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 12:04 pm
Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 11:09 am It seems like if he were going anywhere, he'd be there by now. If BDW wasn't willing to eat the contract this year, why would he be willing next year?
Answer: Because in 2025 he lost over 1 million fans in attendance in 2025 ??
The real difference is arenado will probably be willing to waive his NTC this time
But at this point, will there be anyone to waive it for?
Oh yea with him going to back to gold glove defense there will definitely be takers as long as the cardinals eat money which I think they will do to get rid of him
I want to believe, but I don't think things have changed that much in the last 6 months. Is anything, NA's value has plummeted (he's not going to win the GG this year). I doubt BDW's appetite for eating money has increased.
It’s not really eating money at this point. It’s gaining money.
I agree. But that was also true in March, and every month since. It's possible Mo was the one who didn't want to swallow his pride and ask for NA to be discounted. In that case, something has changed (or is about to).

But if, as we all suspect, it was BDW who didn't want a major markdown, I just don't see how anything is different. If anything, it makes less sense to pay NA to leave now than it did in the spring. If what you want is prospects for a rebuild, then trading Gorman seems like the move.

Were there teams asking Mo to eat some of NA’s salary? I can’t remember.

Posted: **22 Sep 2025 15:20 pm**

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 15:17 pm
Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 15:14 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 15:00 pm
Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 14:57 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 14:37 pm
Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 13:24 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 12:06 pm
ramfandan wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 12:04 pm
Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 11:09 am It seems like if he were going anywhere, he'd be there by now. If BDW wasn't willing to eat the contract this year, why would he be willing next year?
Answer: Because in 2025 he lost over 1 million fans in attendance in 2025 ??
The real difference is arenado will probably be willing to waive his NTC this time
But at this point, will there be anyone to waive it for?
Oh yea with him going to back to gold glove defense there will definitely be takers as long as the cardinals eat money which I think they will do to get rid of him
I want to believe, but I don't think things have changed that much in the last 6 months. Is anything, NA's value has plummeted (he's not going to win the GG this year). I doubt BDW's appetite for eating money has increased.
It’s not really eating money at this point. It’s gaining money.
I agree. But that was also true in March, and every month since. It's possible Mo was the one who didn't want to swallow his pride and ask for NA to be discounted. In that case, something has changed (or is about to).

But if, as we all suspect, it was BDW who didn't want a major markdown, I just don't see how anything is different. If anything, it makes less sense to pay NA to leave now than it did in the spring. If what you want is prospects for a rebuild, then trading Gorman seems like the move.
Were there teams asking Mo to eat some of NA’s salary? I can’t remember.

None that were discussed publicly...but obviously, the Dodgers (et al) would have taken him at some price.

Posted: **22 Sep 2025 16:11 pm**

Did he turn out the lights?

Posted: **22 Sep 2025 16:16 pm**

I am greatly anticipating this overpaid weakling of a hitter being out of here.

Posted: **22 Sep 2025 16:24 pm**

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:03 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:52 am
Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:47 am Just my 2 cents - it would be idiotic to eat a large chunk of Arenado’s salary to get rid of him, only to give the 3B job to Gorman.

I hope there is a better plan than that.
The primary motive should be moving Arenado.

Who he’s replaced with in the near term shouldn’t be something to worry about.

I hope they trade him even if it means eating half of his salary.
Personally I would trade Donovan, Nootbaar, and Gorman.
That gives LF to Herrera, RF to Burleson, 3B to Arenado for 2 years, and 2B to Wetherholt.

And I don’t see any good reason to keep Gorman around. He has been nothing short of terrible and it’s no longer a small sample size.

Just what exactly does eating a large chunk of money and moving Arenado accomplish?

A .700 OPS Arenado at least helps due to defense.

A .720 OPS Gorman doesn’t help the team in any way.

I want to keep Donny!

Posted: **22 Sep 2025 17:06 pm**

Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 15:20 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 15:17 pm
Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 15:14 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 15:00 pm
Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 14:57 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 14:37 pm
Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 13:24 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 12:06 pm
ramfandan wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 12:04 pm
Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 11:09 am It seems like if he were going anywhere, he'd be there by now. If BDW wasn't willing to eat the contract this year, why would he be willing next year?
Answer: Because in 2025 he lost over 1 million fans in attendance in 2025 ??
The real difference is arenado will probably be willing to waive his NTC this time
But at this point, will there be anyone to waive it for?
Oh yea with him going to back to gold glove defense there will definitely be takers as long as the cardinals eat money which I think they will do to get rid of him
I want to believe, but I don't think things have changed that much in the last 6 months. Is anything, NA's value has plummeted (he's not going to win the GG this year). I doubt BDW's appetite for eating money has increased.
It’s not really eating money at this point. It’s gaining money.
I agree. But that was also true in March, and every month since. It's possible Mo was the one who didn't want to swallow his pride and ask for NA to be discounted. In that case, something has changed (or is about to).

But if, as we all suspect, it was BDW who didn't want a major markdown, I just don't see how anything is different. If anything, it makes less sense to pay NA to leave now than it did in the spring. If what you want is prospects for a rebuild, then trading Gorman seems like the move.
Were there teams asking Mo to eat some of NA’s salary? I can’t remember.
None that were discussed publicly...but obviously, the Dodgers (et al) would have taken him at some price.

Eh I don’t think we can just assume that.

Posted: **22 Sep 2025 19:46 pm**

IMHO, Arenado is not the highest priority deal this season and he wasn't last year either.
I'm fine with trading him but that's just to make room for a lesser player.

There were 4 other players playing worse and 5 other players only controlled for 2 or 3 more years.

RAA/600 Off Def PA YearsOfControl Name
+29.5 +02.0 +00.9 059 5 José Fermín (SSS)
+18.1 -04.10 +20.3 537 4 Masyn Winn
+13.1 +18.3 -09.00 427 4 Iván Herrera
+08.7 +13.1 -04.90 563 3 Willson Contreras
+08.3 +07.8 -00.80 506 2 Brendan Donovan
+04.1 -12.10 +14.7 376 5 Pedro Pagés
+02.7 -07.80 +09.8 444 5 Victor Scott II
+02.2 +15.1 -13.20 525 3 Alec Burleson
-03.93 -03.50 +03.1 061 6 Nathan Church (SSS)
-08.70 -04.40 +00.5 269 6 Thomas Saggese (gettin' better finally)
-09.15 -04.90 +02.4 164 5 Yohel Pozo --- needs to go to make room for Crooks
-09.54 -10.70 +04.1 415 2 Nolan Arenado --- everyone wants to trade the near HOF guy
-10.37 -04.10 -05.60 561 2 Lars Nootbaar --- needs to go
-16.10 +00.1 -01.20 041 6 Luken Baker --- already gone
-23.85 -07.60 -07.90 390 3 Nolan Gorman --- needs to go
-37.80 -16.20 -07.30 373 4 Jordan Walker --- needs to go to AAA

Keeping the best players and making room for Wetherholt...
+18.1 SS Winn
+13.1 DH Herrera
+08.7 1B Contreras
+08.3 3B Donovan
+04.1 C Pages
+02.7 CF Scott
+02.2 LF Burleson
-03.93 RF Church
??????? 2B Wetherholt

Bench
+29.5 UT Fermin
-08.70 IF Saggese
??????? UT Torres
??????? C Crooks

If Arenado stays, then Donovan could play LF and Burleson could play RF and Church goes to the bench.

Are we trading Arenado to make room for Church?
Are we trading Arenado to make room for Gorman or Walker or Nootbar? They were all worse than Arenado and getting worse each year.

The Cards should acquire a RH outfielder, but I am guessing they won't.

IMHO, the smart move is to keep Arenado and play him only 4-5 days per week to keep him healthier.

Posted: **22 Sep 2025 20:27 pm**

cardstatman wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 19:46 pm IMHO, Arenado is not the highest priority deal this season and he wasn't last year either.
I'm fine with trading him but that's just to make room for a lesser player.

There were 4 other players playing worse and 5 other players only controlled for 2 or 3 more years.

RAA/600 Off Def PA YearsOfControl Name
+29.5 +02.0 +00.9 059 5 José Fermín (SSS)
+18.1 -04.10 +20.3 537 4 Masyn Winn
+13.1 +18.3 -09.00 427 4 Iván Herrera
+08.7 +13.1 -04.90 563 3 Willson Contreras
+08.3 +07.8 -00.80 506 2 Brendan Donovan
+04.1 -12.10 +14.7 376 5 Pedro Pagés
+02.7 -07.80 +09.8 444 5 Victor Scott II
+02.2 +15.1 -13.20 525 3 Alec Burleson
-03.93 -03.50 +03.1 061 6 Nathan Church (SSS)
-08.70 -04.40 +00.5 269 6 Thomas Saggese (gettin' better finally)
-09.15 -04.90 +02.4 164 5 Yohel Pozo --- needs to go to make room for Crooks
-09.54 -10.70 +04.1 415 2 Nolan Arenado --- everyone wants to trade the near HOF guy
-10.37 -04.10 -05.60 561 2 Lars Nootbaar --- needs to go
-16.10 +00.1 -01.20 041 6 Luken Baker --- already gone
-23.85 -07.60 -07.90 390 3 Nolan Gorman --- needs to go
-37.80 -16.20 -07.30 373 4 Jordan Walker --- needs to go to AAA

Keeping the best players and making room for Wetherholt...
+18.1 SS Winn
+13.1 DH Herrera
+08.7 1B Contreras
+08.3 3B Donovan
+04.1 C Pages
+02.7 CF Scott
+02.2 LF Burleson
-03.93 RF Church
??????? 2B Wetherholt

Bench
+29.5 UT Fermin
-08.70 IF Saggese
??????? UT Torres
??????? C Crooks

If Arenado stays, then Donovan could play LF and Burleson could play RF and Church goes to the bench.

Are we trading Arenado to make room for Church?
Are we trading Arenado to make room for Gorman or Walker or Nootbar? They were all worse than Arenado and getting worse each year.

The Cards should acquire a RH outfielder, but I am guessing they won't.

IMHO, the smart move is to keep Arenado and play him only 4-5 days per week to keep him healthier.

Why keep him in the middle of a rebuild? Wetherholt makes him expandable. Not that he's not expendable anyway. That sub .700 OPS at 3B or anywhere else ain't cutting it. And who's to say his RAA won't be worse next year? He's not getting any younger. And now he obviously wants to leave. Grant his wish -- one way or another. Via trade or DFA.

Posted: **22 Sep 2025 20:47 pm**

Hopefully Arenado isn't moved solely as a salary dump that the Dewitt’s pocket. Spend those savings on the roster, Billy Boy!

Posted: **22 Sep 2025 20:52 pm**

ramfandan wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 07:34 am https://www.stltoday.com/sports/

In case you can't get access to the locker room video , he stated he understands the organization needs to grow and go with some of the younger guys ..there is no doubt I am in the way of that .. said he enjoyed the times playing at Busch especially the packed stadiums .. said playing with a lot of empty seats is not as fun adding that is not the fans fault , it's ours.. we didn't win enough.
A highlight was playing with Albert for Pujols return year.

Said I just can't pick any team ..someone has to want me.. I think I can still play well for someone.. will sit down with my agent and family ..
last line was 'I am anticipating probably not coming back here.

I've given him a lot of cr*p but really appreciate him being a standup guy and taking accountability. Far too much finger pointing going on with this organization. H*ll, far too much of that going on in this world.

Posted: **23 Sep 2025 01:23 am**

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 20:47 pm Hopefully Arenado isn't moved solely as a salary dump that the Dewitt’s pocket. Spend those savings on the roster, Billy Boy!

Nobody's likely to take him off the Cardinals' hands. Not unless he is basically free or close to it. So there likely would be little money saved.

Posted: **23 Sep 2025 06:21 am**

icon wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 01:23 am
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 20:47 pm Hopefully Arenado isn't moved solely as a salary dump that the Dewitt’s pocket. Spend those savings on the roster, Billy Boy!
Nobody's likely to take him off the Cardinals' hands. Not unless he is basically free or close to it. So there likely would be little money saved.

Unfortunately you are probably right.

STLtoday.com

Arenado postgame : "I am anticipating not coming back here"

Re: Arenado postgame : "I am anticipating not coming back here"

Re: Arenado postgame : "I am anticipating not coming back here"

Re: Arenado postgame : "I am anticipating not coming back here"

Re: Arenado postgame : "I am anticipating not coming back here"

Re: Arenado postgame : "I am anticipating not coming back here"

Re: Arenado postgame : "I am anticipating not coming back here"

Re: Arenado postgame : "I am anticipating not coming back here"

Re: Arenado postgame : "I am anticipating not coming back here"

Re: Arenado postgame : "I am anticipating not coming back here"

Re: Arenado postgame : "I am anticipating not coming back here"

Re: Arenado postgame : "I am anticipating not coming back here"

Re: Arenado postgame : "I am anticipating not coming back here"

Re: Arenado postgame : "I am anticipating not coming back here"

Re: Arenado postgame : "I am anticipating not coming back here"

Re: Arenado postgame : "I am anticipating not coming back here"

Re: Arenado postgame : "I am anticipating not coming back here"