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cardstatman wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 20:14 pm MLB trades:
Burleson for an MLB starting pitcher. Trade high. Replace with Torres.
Nootbar for an MLB RH outfielder. Replace with that RH outfielder.

40-man roster clearing trades (or nontenders)...
Gorman for a miLB guy. Replace with Wetherholt.
Pozo for a miLB guy (if possible). Replace with Crooks.
King for a miLB guy (if possible). Replace with Raquet.
Fermin for a miLB guy (if possible)
Siani for a miLB guy (if possible)
Roycroft for a miLB guy (if possible)
Veneziano for a miLB guy (if possible)
Koperniak for a miLB guy (if possible)

Mikolas leaves via FA. Replace with Mathews.
Hampson (already a DFA)

Demote to AAA to play everyday:
Walker - replace with Church in RF
Saggese - replace with Prieto

Trade if you can... but you probably can't... and you will still be too lefthanded
Contreras instead of Burleson
Arenado instead of Nootbar (move Donovan to 3B and Nootbar to LF)

Do Not Trade:
Gray: What is the point of trading away your best starting pitcher (and sending cash with him) and then looking for starting pitchers to acquire?

Who is left?
C Crooks and Pages platoon with Bernal in AAA
1B/DH Contreras, Herrera
IF Arenado, Winn, Wetherholt with Prieto and Torres on bench with Saggese and Mendoza in AAA playing every day
OF Donovan, Scott, Church, new RH OF (from Nootbar trade) with Walker and Baez in AAA playing every day
SP Gray, Mathews, Liberatore, McGreevy, new SP (from Burleson trade) with Pallante in BP and Henderson, Mautz, Hansen, Rincon, Winquest in AAA
RRP Leahy, O'Brien, Svanson, Pallante, Alcala, Granillo with Graceffo, Fernandez, Munoz in AAA
LRP Romero, Raquet with Mosqueda in AAA

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 20:41 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:38 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:25 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 12:06 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:55 am What to do to become a competitive team? A lot of people here believe their own bull[shirt], and enjoy the company of others believing the same bull[shirt]. This IS a competitive team. They're a .500 team in a division that's +32. What we want is a team to move up to the top tier, into the high-90s, 100 win range. The good news is that in modern baseball that can happen in a year or two. The bad news is the present crew doesn't have the ability to do it. The incoming regime? We'll see. I have high hopes for them. This frustrating season will pay some dividends towards that end.

Sure, they can make the playoffs in 2026 with a few moves this off season.

Yes, and I think they will. Is there anyone claiming otherwise? It's important to note that the overall goal is not to make the playoffs but field a championship caliber team.

If you and Cranny think this team will make the playoffs in 2026 I want some of what you’re smoking.

2027 maybe, 2028 is more realistic.

Pffft. There are three wild card teams per league; this ain't 1985 or 1968. The Cardinals can easily be a playoff team next year with a good offseason (for a change).

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:25 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 12:06 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:55 am What to do to become a competitive team? A lot of people here believe their own bull[shirt], and enjoy the company of others believing the same bull[shirt]. This IS a competitive team. They're a .500 team in a division that's +32. What we want is a team to move up to the top tier, into the high-90s, 100 win range. The good news is that in modern baseball that can happen in a year or two. The bad news is the present crew doesn't have the ability to do it. The incoming regime? We'll see. I have high hopes for them. This frustrating season will pay some dividends towards that end.

Sure, they can make the playoffs in 2026 with a few moves this off season.

Yes, and I think they will. Is there anyone claiming otherwise? It's important to note that the overall goal is not to make the playoffs but field a championship caliber team.

CardsBest wrote: ↑11 Sep 2025 06:45 am

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:25 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 12:06 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:55 am What to do to become a competitive team? A lot of people here believe their own bull[shirt], and enjoy the company of others believing the same bull[shirt]. This IS a competitive team. They're a .500 team in a division that's +32. What we want is a team to move up to the top tier, into the high-90s, 100 win range. The good news is that in modern baseball that can happen in a year or two. The bad news is the present crew doesn't have the ability to do it. The incoming regime? We'll see. I have high hopes for them. This frustrating season will pay some dividends towards that end.

Sure, they can make the playoffs in 2026 with a few moves this off season.

Yes, and I think they will. Is there anyone claiming otherwise? It's important to note that the overall goal is not to make the playoffs but field a championship caliber team.

+1
6 of 15 teams in National league or 12 of the 30 teams in baseball make the playoffs. That is 40% of the teams in baseball make the playoffs. That is slightly above mediocre. Reds are 74-72 and currently just 2 games out of the playoffs. Cards are 4th in one of the three divisions in NL with only Pirates behind them. Brewers are 89-58 31 games over .500 and Cards are 72-75 3 games under .500. Cards are not winning the division and while they might be able to make moves to make the playoffs (40% teams make it) they would be a wild card and not have home field advantage which makes it tougher. The MLB use to be only division winners went to the playoffs, then they added wild cards, then they added more and more wild cards. That has done exactly what they wanted drum up interest in ho hum teams and made it so teams don't have to try as hard to build good teams. Cards have taken advantage of that and the fans now they need to pay the price and build a real team.

CardsBest wrote: ↑11 Sep 2025 06:45 am

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:25 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 12:06 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:55 am What to do to become a competitive team? A lot of people here believe their own bull[shirt], and enjoy the company of others believing the same bull[shirt]. This IS a competitive team. They're a .500 team in a division that's +32. What we want is a team to move up to the top tier, into the high-90s, 100 win range. The good news is that in modern baseball that can happen in a year or two. The bad news is the present crew doesn't have the ability to do it. The incoming regime? We'll see. I have high hopes for them. This frustrating season will pay some dividends towards that end.

Sure, they can make the playoffs in 2026 with a few moves this off season.

Yes, and I think they will. Is there anyone claiming otherwise? It's important to note that the overall goal is not to make the playoffs but field a championship caliber team.

+1
6 of 15 teams in National league or 12 of the 30 teams in baseball make the playoffs. That is 40% of the teams in baseball make the playoffs. That is slightly above mediocre. Reds are 74-72 and currently just 2 games out of the playoffs. Cards are 4th in one of the three divisions in NL with only Pirates behind them. Brewers are 89-58 31 games over .500 and Cards are 72-75 3 games under .500. Cards are not winning the division and while they might be able to make moves to make the playoffs (40% teams make it) they would be a wild card and not have home field advantage which makes it tougher. The MLB use to be only division winners went to the playoffs, then they added wild cards, then they added more and more wild cards. That has done exactly what they wanted drum up interest in ho hum teams and made it so teams don't have to try as hard to build good teams. Cards have taken advantage of that and the fans now they need to pay the price and build a real team.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑11 Sep 2025 07:35 am

CardsBest wrote: ↑11 Sep 2025 06:45 am

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:25 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 12:06 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:55 am What to do to become a competitive team? A lot of people here believe their own bull[shirt], and enjoy the company of others believing the same bull[shirt]. This IS a competitive team. They're a .500 team in a division that's +32. What we want is a team to move up to the top tier, into the high-90s, 100 win range. The good news is that in modern baseball that can happen in a year or two. The bad news is the present crew doesn't have the ability to do it. The incoming regime? We'll see. I have high hopes for them. This frustrating season will pay some dividends towards that end.

Sure, they can make the playoffs in 2026 with a few moves this off season.

Yes, and I think they will. Is there anyone claiming otherwise? It's important to note that the overall goal is not to make the playoffs but field a championship caliber team.

+1
6 of 15 teams in National league or 12 of the 30 teams in baseball make the playoffs. That is 40% of the teams in baseball make the playoffs. That is slightly above mediocre. Reds are 74-72 and currently just 2 games out of the playoffs. Cards are 4th in one of the three divisions in NL with only Pirates behind them. Brewers are 89-58 31 games over .500 and Cards are 72-75 3 games under .500. Cards are not winning the division and while they might be able to make moves to make the playoffs (40% teams make it) they would be a wild card and not have home field advantage which makes it tougher. The MLB use to be only division winners went to the playoffs, then they added wild cards, then they added more and more wild cards. That has done exactly what they wanted drum up interest in ho hum teams and made it so teams don't have to try as hard to build good teams. Cards have taken advantage of that and the fans now they need to pay the price and build a real team.

Don't be so negative.

The current mlb playoffs means that more teams are in the hunt for a longer period of time.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑11 Sep 2025 07:35 am

CardsBest wrote: ↑11 Sep 2025 06:45 am

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:25 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 12:06 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:55 am What to do to become a competitive team? A lot of people here believe their own bull[shirt], and enjoy the company of others believing the same bull[shirt]. This IS a competitive team. They're a .500 team in a division that's +32. What we want is a team to move up to the top tier, into the high-90s, 100 win range. The good news is that in modern baseball that can happen in a year or two. The bad news is the present crew doesn't have the ability to do it. The incoming regime? We'll see. I have high hopes for them. This frustrating season will pay some dividends towards that end.

Sure, they can make the playoffs in 2026 with a few moves this off season.

Yes, and I think they will. Is there anyone claiming otherwise? It's important to note that the overall goal is not to make the playoffs but field a championship caliber team.

+1
6 of 15 teams in National league or 12 of the 30 teams in baseball make the playoffs. That is 40% of the teams in baseball make the playoffs. That is slightly above mediocre. Reds are 74-72 and currently just 2 games out of the playoffs. Cards are 4th in one of the three divisions in NL with only Pirates behind them. Brewers are 89-58 31 games over .500 and Cards are 72-75 3 games under .500. Cards are not winning the division and while they might be able to make moves to make the playoffs (40% teams make it) they would be a wild card and not have home field advantage which makes it tougher. The MLB use to be only division winners went to the playoffs, then they added wild cards, then they added more and more wild cards. That has done exactly what they wanted drum up interest in ho hum teams and made it so teams don't have to try as hard to build good teams. Cards have taken advantage of that and the fans now they need to pay the price and build a real team.

Don't be so negative.

The current mlb playoffs means that more teams are in the hunt for a longer period of time.

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑11 Sep 2025 10:58 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑11 Sep 2025 07:35 am

CardsBest wrote: ↑11 Sep 2025 06:45 am

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:25 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 12:06 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:55 am What to do to become a competitive team? A lot of people here believe their own bull[shirt], and enjoy the company of others believing the same bull[shirt]. This IS a competitive team. They're a .500 team in a division that's +32. What we want is a team to move up to the top tier, into the high-90s, 100 win range. The good news is that in modern baseball that can happen in a year or two. The bad news is the present crew doesn't have the ability to do it. The incoming regime? We'll see. I have high hopes for them. This frustrating season will pay some dividends towards that end.

Sure, they can make the playoffs in 2026 with a few moves this off season.

Yes, and I think they will. Is there anyone claiming otherwise? It's important to note that the overall goal is not to make the playoffs but field a championship caliber team.

+1
6 of 15 teams in National league or 12 of the 30 teams in baseball make the playoffs. That is 40% of the teams in baseball make the playoffs. That is slightly above mediocre. Reds are 74-72 and currently just 2 games out of the playoffs. Cards are 4th in one of the three divisions in NL with only Pirates behind them. Brewers are 89-58 31 games over .500 and Cards are 72-75 3 games under .500. Cards are not winning the division and while they might be able to make moves to make the playoffs (40% teams make it) they would be a wild card and not have home field advantage which makes it tougher. The MLB use to be only division winners went to the playoffs, then they added wild cards, then they added more and more wild cards. That has done exactly what they wanted drum up interest in ho hum teams and made it so teams don't have to try as hard to build good teams. Cards have taken advantage of that and the fans now they need to pay the price and build a real team.

Don't be so negative.

The current mlb playoffs means that more teams are in the hunt for a longer period of time.

It's all about trade-offs. The wild-cards bring some excitement to fan bases that would normally be spent watching their team play out their schedule. Wild card races can bring about excitement in some years. That's good. But baseball has lost one of its most attractive and unique features: the pennant race. The days are gone (with rare exception) when two really good teams are battling it out every day for one spot. The pennant race draws fan interest from fans of other teams, of casual fans, and even fans of other sport. Cardinals/Mets, Giants/Braves, and other epic pennant races were such that it seemed like they had to win every damned game down the stretch. In the wild card races it is often two mediocre teams trying bumble less than the other team. Perhaps the worst aspect of the wild card era is the abandonment of the core meaning of playoff (to play off the question of which league (or division) chamption is better). A team had to win something, finish first, to qualify. Baseball has stooped to the level of other sports such that the regular season has become more of a seeding round for a post-season tournament of teams finishing in the top 40%. Perhaps that's a fitting epitaph for the "participation trophy" generation.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑11 Sep 2025 07:35 am

CardsBest wrote: ↑11 Sep 2025 06:45 am

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:25 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 12:06 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:55 am What to do to become a competitive team? A lot of people here believe their own bull[shirt], and enjoy the company of others believing the same bull[shirt]. This IS a competitive team. They're a .500 team in a division that's +32. What we want is a team to move up to the top tier, into the high-90s, 100 win range. The good news is that in modern baseball that can happen in a year or two. The bad news is the present crew doesn't have the ability to do it. The incoming regime? We'll see. I have high hopes for them. This frustrating season will pay some dividends towards that end.

Sure, they can make the playoffs in 2026 with a few moves this off season.

Yes, and I think they will. Is there anyone claiming otherwise? It's important to note that the overall goal is not to make the playoffs but field a championship caliber team.

+1
6 of 15 teams in National league or 12 of the 30 teams in baseball make the playoffs. That is 40% of the teams in baseball make the playoffs. That is slightly above mediocre. Reds are 74-72 and currently just 2 games out of the playoffs. Cards are 4th in one of the three divisions in NL with only Pirates behind them. Brewers are 89-58 31 games over .500 and Cards are 72-75 3 games under .500. Cards are not winning the division and while they might be able to make moves to make the playoffs (40% teams make it) they would be a wild card and not have home field advantage which makes it tougher. The MLB use to be only division winners went to the playoffs, then they added wild cards, then they added more and more wild cards. That has done exactly what they wanted drum up interest in ho hum teams and made it so teams don't have to try as hard to build good teams. Cards have taken advantage of that and the fans now they need to pay the price and build a real team.

Don't be so negative.

The current mlb playoffs means that more teams are in the hunt for a longer period of time.

Jatalk wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 21:59 pm I continue to see posts detailing moves to create a competitive 2026 team. To do so seems like a lot to ask of Bloom and his team. My list of issues to resolve:

Build better starting rotation. There are several holes to fill.

Clear the clutter in the infield. JJ comes up. Several players competing for infield spots. Arenado is taking a roster spot he should not. Donovan should really be at second base IMO. There is some shuffling to do here.

What to do with Gorman and Walker. How do they fit?

Need a big right handed bat ( or two). Need to improve offense in outfield positions.

Need to continue to build depth on roster and in minor leagues

Gray, Arenado, WC NTC. If one or all agree to waive do you trade to fill some of the other holes? Do you keep with hopes of building around?

Do you retain manager and coaches?

Bloom has a long to do list.

rightthinker4 wrote: ↑11 Sep 2025 21:40 pm

Jatalk wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 21:59 pm I continue to see posts detailing moves to create a competitive 2026 team. To do so seems like a lot to ask of Bloom and his team. My list of issues to resolve:

Build better starting rotation. There are several holes to fill.

Clear the clutter in the infield. JJ comes up. Several players competing for infield spots. Arenado is taking a roster spot he should not. Donovan should really be at second base IMO. There is some shuffling to do here.

What to do with Gorman and Walker. How do they fit?

Need a big right handed bat ( or two). Need to improve offense in outfield positions.

Need to continue to build depth on roster and in minor leagues

Gray, Arenado, WC NTC. If one or all agree to waive do you trade to fill some of the other holes? Do you keep with hopes of building around?

Do you retain manager and coaches?

Bloom has a long to do list.

2026 will be year 2 of the rebuild.

Jatalk wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 13:18 pm

Red7 wrote: ↑09 Sep 2025 10:42 am

The Nard wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 21:41 pm

The Nard wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 16:09 pm

Red7 wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 23:05 pm This is going to take time. The Cardinals are looking to rebuild along the lines of Tampa and Cleveland. Don’t expect a1996 or 2000 turnaround. They will be busy this offseason clearing a lot of the clutter. I think you’ll see a lot of new faces, but there are no blockbuster deals or FA signings on the horizon. If they are going to increase payroll significantly, it will not be before 2027. Payroll will remain flat as most of the savings will go to Sonny Gray who will make $35 million next year. Even if Gray, Contreras and Arenado waive their NTC’s, the team will be paying most, if not all, of their money.

While Tampa was good at evaluating and using their young talent, Cleveland has been relying for over a decade now, on stellar starting pitching and up-the-middle defense. And offense was a bonus to them, as it was last year when josh Nader had his career year. This year they took a backward step in all 3areas, by trading Nader and Gimemez, and sub-par seasons from their starters, some coming off injuries.

I’m all for focusing on pitching and defense first, and then adding at least one power bat

Josh Naylor, not Nader; I knew something looked off.

No problem. I knew who you meant. The problem is too many people on here think/want the Cardinals can/to wheel and deal themselves into a contender this offseason and that’s simply not what’s happening. They didn’t hire Dave Dombroski or AJ Preller. They hired a system builder. It’s going to take time to get that system up and running. When Whitey made his moves, he dealt high end prospects like Terry Kennedy, Leon Durham, and high end talent like Ted Simmons, Pete Vuckovich, Rollie Fingers, and Garry Templeton. When Jocketty did it, he made some timely deals (also trading high end prospects), drafted Pujols and Molina, and made some great low risk high reward signings. Bloom is not in that position.

I was in Little Rock watching the AA team when Whitey took over. Prior to that we literally watched the same players every year with a few exceptions. When Whitey came on the whole organization top to bottom was cleared out.

Red7 wrote: ↑12 Sep 2025 20:00 pm

Jatalk wrote: ↑10 Sep 2025 13:18 pm

Red7 wrote: ↑09 Sep 2025 10:42 am

The Nard wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 21:41 pm

The Nard wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 16:09 pm

Red7 wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 23:05 pm This is going to take time. The Cardinals are looking to rebuild along the lines of Tampa and Cleveland. Don’t expect a1996 or 2000 turnaround. They will be busy this offseason clearing a lot of the clutter. I think you’ll see a lot of new faces, but there are no blockbuster deals or FA signings on the horizon. If they are going to increase payroll significantly, it will not be before 2027. Payroll will remain flat as most of the savings will go to Sonny Gray who will make $35 million next year. Even if Gray, Contreras and Arenado waive their NTC’s, the team will be paying most, if not all, of their money.

While Tampa was good at evaluating and using their young talent, Cleveland has been relying for over a decade now, on stellar starting pitching and up-the-middle defense. And offense was a bonus to them, as it was last year when josh Nader had his career year. This year they took a backward step in all 3areas, by trading Nader and Gimemez, and sub-par seasons from their starters, some coming off injuries.

I’m all for focusing on pitching and defense first, and then adding at least one power bat

Josh Naylor, not Nader; I knew something looked off.

No problem. I knew who you meant. The problem is too many people on here think/want the Cardinals can/to wheel and deal themselves into a contender this offseason and that’s simply not what’s happening. They didn’t hire Dave Dombroski or AJ Preller. They hired a system builder. It’s going to take time to get that system up and running. When Whitey made his moves, he dealt high end prospects like Terry Kennedy, Leon Durham, and high end talent like Ted Simmons, Pete Vuckovich, Rollie Fingers, and Garry Templeton. When Jocketty did it, he made some timely deals (also trading high end prospects), drafted Pujols and Molina, and made some great low risk high reward signings. Bloom is not in that position.

I was in Little Rock watching the AA team when Whitey took over. Prior to that we literally watched the same players every year with a few exceptions. When Whitey came on the whole organization top to bottom was cleared out.

Not entirely true. Herr, Oberkfell, Hernandez, Templeton, Hendrick, Forsch, were the nucleus around what Herzog built. Fact is, without his issues, Templeton is probably not traded. While the deals with San Diego, Milwaukee and Chicago attract the most attention, two lesser deals were huge: Bob Sykes for Willie McGee, Tony Scott for Joaquin Andujar. Then, of course, came the deals for Ozzie and Lonnie Smith.