What is wrong with Tommy Pham?

[imadangman]

His mom was 17 when he was born and didn't finish high school
His dad was 19 and incarcerated when he was born
Pham's stepfather stabbed him during a fight

Just stop the post right there. Open ended question: how would you overcome that type of upbringing? You can try to answer the question at face value. You look around a field at kids who came from these richy rich select ball leagues. Their parents drove them around in fancy travelalls with iPads fixed to the dash, and made rude entitled demands to the hotel employees wherever they stay (you know the types). Remember when pham said in a post-game interview he didn't have anyone to play catch with growing up.

A guy like Pham is going to standout as different from his teammates. But he's not going to have time to stop and explain to each and every person what he's been through. I think at that age, it would be hard to expect Pham himself to even fully understand his own childhood through his own eyes, or what it is he's missing. He's not gonna be going to therapy at that point. All he knows is to leave it all out on the field with a chip on his shoulder.

Not trying to justify everything pham did but it makes total sense. Truly, nobody believed in him. It's hard not to project that onto the rest of the world when it's all you know, giving that chip on shoulder. We can say that every MLB player has defied odds just by getting to the big leagues. But it is worth noting that very few of them had to overcome the specific challenges Pham did. By the rest of your post and your failure to connect his childhood to his later actions, you seem like the type of person who would like to see a social credit score in the US.

Yeah, pham has some work to do getting to a point of acceptance and hopefully the end of his playing days will give him the time and space to put focus on that.

Was he not drafted? Was he not taught the game of baseball? I'm sure there were people who believed in him.

At some point you have to grow up, despite your upbringing. You have to rise above it. He is a bigtime punk and thug and was ungrateful specifically of the Cardinals when he was here the first time. Mouthing a franchise that drafted you, BELIEVED in you, and paid you a fortune, setting you up for life is not a good look. Bottom line, he is a punk.

A person with the type of upbringing isn't going to come with a set of switches he can just manually flip in order to rise above it. He did get paid $325,000 at his draft, pretty high for a 16th round pick. But I imagine by the time he gets to 2013 or 2014, that check he got in 2006 is starting to become pretty distant in the rearview mirror. Anybody who gets drafted and begins professional baseball is doing so because they want to make the big leagues. Something tells me teams have more resources in place nowadays to help people like this.

[Northsider76]

I respect that Pham has a code about questioning the umpire and adheres to it, but he also needs to acknowledge that code is not one of baseball's universal unwritten rules and asking for clarification on balls is done regardless of service time. Especially with the umpiring being as bad as its been at times. And regardless, his reaction was way over the top and childish. He needs to grow the eff up.

[WaltsSuccessor]

This year was the first year in 4 years that he didn't get traded at the deadline. If he has stopped being a good enough hitter to net a prospect at the deadline then he may be playing his last season.

He's had a good career... earned $40M for 20 WAR of production... I was stunned to look back at his last full year with the Cards and realize he was a 6 WAR player that year... 11th in MVP voting.... monster season (.931 OPS) in 128 games.

Staying out of the good guy vs bad guy debate to highlight another couple Pham tidbits for his career:

- With all the minor league injuries and eye issues delaying his first extended look at the MLB at age 27, how impressive is it that he’s still playing?

- Related note, I remember people here making the observation when he was a Cardinal how unfortunate that late bloomer/Cards messing with his service time was that he’d likely never make it to free agency and get paid. Yet, dude has now made $40m.

- At age 37, he’s got a 1.8 bWAR season in limited games for the Pirates - including positive dWAR. So he should definitely land another one year deal this offseason. Still an asset for somebody.

- Assuming that happens, he’ll hit the magical 10 year service mark next season to become fully vested in the MLB pension next season. Few could’ve predicted that with the late start and eye condition.

So not going to weigh in on this nonsense, but to that’s a pretty impressive, and improbable, career so far for Mr. Pham defying all kinds of odds.

[An Old Friend]

His mom was 17 when he was born and didn't finish high school
His dad was 19 and incarcerated when he was born
Pham's stepfather stabbed him during a fight

Just stop the post right there. Open ended question: how would you overcome that type of upbringing? You can try to answer the question at face value. You look around a field at kids who came from these richy rich select ball leagues. Their parents drove them around in fancy travelalls with iPads fixed to the dash, and made rude entitled demands to the hotel employees wherever they stay (you know the types). Remember when pham said in a post-game interview he didn't have anyone to play catch with growing up.

A guy like Pham is going to standout as different from his teammates. But he's not going to have time to stop and explain to each and every person what he's been through. I think at that age, it would be hard to expect Pham himself to even fully understand his own childhood through his own eyes, or what it is he's missing. He's not gonna be going to therapy at that point. All he knows is to leave it all out on the field with a chip on his shoulder.

Not trying to justify everything pham did but it makes total sense. Truly, nobody believed in him. It's hard not to project that onto the rest of the world when it's all you know, giving that chip on shoulder. We can say that every MLB player has defied odds just by getting to the big leagues. But it is worth noting that very few of them had to overcome the specific challenges Pham did. By the rest of your post and your failure to connect his childhood to his later actions, you seem like the type of person who would like to see a social credit score in the US.

Yeah, pham has some work to do getting to a point of acceptance and hopefully the end of his playing days will give him the time and space to put focus on that.

My failure? FOH, it’s literally like the first thing I said… he had a terrible upbringing.

You’ve totally misread me.

I coached inner city kids in Chicago that had no shot in life. I’ve seen first hand what that’s like. The fact that Pham made it is incredible. That shouldn’t mean that speaking the truth is off limits.

It should be ok to say HOW he is as long as you acknowledge WHY he is. And it’s the first thing that I did.

Social credit scores? Gross.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

I like Tommy Pham.

I saw a clip of Lance Lynn talking about this. He seemed to laugh it off. He said sounds like the catcher was probably talking too much during the game, specifically during that AB, and Tommy didn't like that, so he told him to stop talking to him.

[An Old Friend]

Ummm... he's ALWAYS been this guy. Totally unhinged and an asssshole... product of his upbringing.

Talented enough to have a long career.
Too big of a jackwagon for anyone to keep him around for any time whatsoever - he's a cancer.

10 teams in 12 seasons

Kimbrel has been with 9 teams in 11 years. Is he a cancer?
Chris Stratton has been with 7 teams in 8 years. Cancer?

Like the ones above, Tommy's career of late has been 1 year deals, then traded to teams in the playoff hunt who want him.

For cancers, see Puig. He hasn't been in the league in 6 years.

Organizations keep signing Pham. And no, it's not because they know less about his personality than you...

Yet, none of these brain trust want him for more than a half season. Hhhmmmm. That spells cancer.

Was Maton a cancer for the Cardinals?

Or was he a talented player on a middling team that they could flip?

"No one wants him for more than a half season!" Look at all the examples. He's on sellers at deadlines going to contenders. LOL. It happens all the time.

You keep citing relief pitchers as an example. Relief pitcher is a journeyman trade. Outfielders that can hit, run, and defend are atypically journeymen like Pham has been… who was NOT acquired by a contender this year.

[imadangman]

His mom was 17 when he was born and didn't finish high school
His dad was 19 and incarcerated when he was born
Pham's stepfather stabbed him during a fight

Just stop the post right there. Open ended question: how would you overcome that type of upbringing? You can try to answer the question at face value. You look around a field at kids who came from these richy rich select ball leagues. Their parents drove them around in fancy travelalls with iPads fixed to the dash, and made rude entitled demands to the hotel employees wherever they stay (you know the types). Remember when pham said in a post-game interview he didn't have anyone to play catch with growing up.

A guy like Pham is going to standout as different from his teammates. But he's not going to have time to stop and explain to each and every person what he's been through. I think at that age, it would be hard to expect Pham himself to even fully understand his own childhood through his own eyes, or what it is he's missing. He's not gonna be going to therapy at that point. All he knows is to leave it all out on the field with a chip on his shoulder.

Not trying to justify everything pham did but it makes total sense. Truly, nobody believed in him. It's hard not to project that onto the rest of the world when it's all you know, giving that chip on shoulder. We can say that every MLB player has defied odds just by getting to the big leagues. But it is worth noting that very few of them had to overcome the specific challenges Pham did. By the rest of your post and your failure to connect his childhood to his later actions, you seem like the type of person who would like to see a social credit score in the US.

Yeah, pham has some work to do getting to a point of acceptance and hopefully the end of his playing days will give him the time and space to put focus on that.

My failure? FOH, it’s literally like the first thing I said… he had a terrible upbringing.

You’ve totally misread me.

I coached inner city kids in Chicago that had no shot in life. I’ve seen first hand what that’s like. The fact that Pham made it is incredible. That shouldn’t mean that speaking the truth is off limits.

It should be ok to say HOW he is as long as you acknowledge WHY he is. And it’s the first thing that I did.

Social credit scores? Gross.

Ok then I misunderstood the direction you went with that after you brought it up at the beginning, so I'm very sorry. Yeah it's tough for him and there's no perfect answer and no guarantee that everyone can make it, not only financially/achievement wise but also mentally. Everyone has their moments too.

[Voldemort]

I would like to be wrong, but I believe we will be hearing about Pham after his MLB career is over. He is an angry person. IMO, he has done well in MLB but has often been his own enemy. It is too bad since he has been given an opportunity to play in MLB and have a decent career. Again, I hope that I am wrong.

[ecleme22]

Ummm... he's ALWAYS been this guy. Totally unhinged and an asssshole... product of his upbringing.

Talented enough to have a long career.
Too big of a jackwagon for anyone to keep him around for any time whatsoever - he's a cancer.

10 teams in 12 seasons

Kimbrel has been with 9 teams in 11 years. Is he a cancer?
Chris Stratton has been with 7 teams in 8 years. Cancer?

Like the ones above, Tommy's career of late has been 1 year deals, then traded to teams in the playoff hunt who want him.

For cancers, see Puig. He hasn't been in the league in 6 years.

Organizations keep signing Pham. And no, it's not because they know less about his personality than you...

Yet, none of these brain trust want him for more than a half season. Hhhmmmm. That spells cancer.

Was Maton a cancer for the Cardinals?

Or was he a talented player on a middling team that they could flip?

"No one wants him for more than a half season!" Look at all the examples. He's on sellers at deadlines going to contenders. LOL. It happens all the time.

You keep citing relief pitchers as an example. Relief pitcher is a journeyman trade. Outfielders that can hit, run, and defend are atypically journeymen like Pham has been… who was NOT acquired by a contender this year.

Every signing Pham has had since Cincinnati has been a one year deal. And he was flipped at the deadline the first three years because he team’s were sellers.

Now Pham isn’t a reliever like Maton or Stratton, but it’s easy to see how a vet on a one year deal is susceptible to a deadline deal.

It’s not rocket science…

[An Old Friend]

Ummm... he's ALWAYS been this guy. Totally unhinged and an asssshole... product of his upbringing.

Talented enough to have a long career.
Too big of a jackwagon for anyone to keep him around for any time whatsoever - he's a cancer.

10 teams in 12 seasons

Kimbrel has been with 9 teams in 11 years. Is he a cancer?
Chris Stratton has been with 7 teams in 8 years. Cancer?

Like the ones above, Tommy's career of late has been 1 year deals, then traded to teams in the playoff hunt who want him.

For cancers, see Puig. He hasn't been in the league in 6 years.

Organizations keep signing Pham. And no, it's not because they know less about his personality than you...

Yet, none of these brain trust want him for more than a half season. Hhhmmmm. That spells cancer.

Was Maton a cancer for the Cardinals?

Or was he a talented player on a middling team that they could flip?

"No one wants him for more than a half season!" Look at all the examples. He's on sellers at deadlines going to contenders. LOL. It happens all the time.

You keep citing relief pitchers as an example. Relief pitcher is a journeyman trade. Outfielders that can hit, run, and defend are atypically journeymen like Pham has been… who was NOT acquired by a contender this year.

Every signing Pham has had since Cincinnati has been a one year deal. And he was flipped at the deadline the first three years because he team’s were sellers.

Now Pham isn’t a reliever like Maton or Stratton, but it’s easy to see how a vet on a one year deal is susceptible to a deadline deal.

It’s not rocket science…

Disingenous: not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

[ecleme22]

Ummm... he's ALWAYS been this guy. Totally unhinged and an asssshole... product of his upbringing.

Talented enough to have a long career.
Too big of a jackwagon for anyone to keep him around for any time whatsoever - he's a cancer.

10 teams in 12 seasons

Kimbrel has been with 9 teams in 11 years. Is he a cancer?
Chris Stratton has been with 7 teams in 8 years. Cancer?

Like the ones above, Tommy's career of late has been 1 year deals, then traded to teams in the playoff hunt who want him.

For cancers, see Puig. He hasn't been in the league in 6 years.

Organizations keep signing Pham. And no, it's not because they know less about his personality than you...

Yet, none of these brain trust want him for more than a half season. Hhhmmmm. That spells cancer.

Was Maton a cancer for the Cardinals?

Or was he a talented player on a middling team that they could flip?

"No one wants him for more than a half season!" Look at all the examples. He's on sellers at deadlines going to contenders. LOL. It happens all the time.

You keep citing relief pitchers as an example. Relief pitcher is a journeyman trade. Outfielders that can hit, run, and defend are atypically journeymen like Pham has been… who was NOT acquired by a contender this year.

Every signing Pham has had since Cincinnati has been a one year deal. And he was flipped at the deadline the first three years because he team’s were sellers.

Now Pham isn’t a reliever like Maton or Stratton, but it’s easy to see how a vet on a one year deal is susceptible to a deadline deal.

It’s not rocket science…

Disingenous: not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

Lol.

Good luck, AOF. You’ve been (whined) slapped a bunch in this thread.

[imadangman]

I would like to be wrong, but I believe we will be hearing about Pham after his MLB career is over. He is an angry person. IMO, he has done well in MLB but has often been his own enemy. It is too bad since he has been given an opportunity to play in MLB and have a decent career. Again, I hope that I am wrong.

Like in an Elijah Dukes way?

[An Old Friend]

Ummm... he's ALWAYS been this guy. Totally unhinged and an asssshole... product of his upbringing.

Talented enough to have a long career.
Too big of a jackwagon for anyone to keep him around for any time whatsoever - he's a cancer.

10 teams in 12 seasons

Kimbrel has been with 9 teams in 11 years. Is he a cancer?
Chris Stratton has been with 7 teams in 8 years. Cancer?

Like the ones above, Tommy's career of late has been 1 year deals, then traded to teams in the playoff hunt who want him.

For cancers, see Puig. He hasn't been in the league in 6 years.

Organizations keep signing Pham. And no, it's not because they know less about his personality than you...

Yet, none of these brain trust want him for more than a half season. Hhhmmmm. That spells cancer.

Was Maton a cancer for the Cardinals?

Or was he a talented player on a middling team that they could flip?

"No one wants him for more than a half season!" Look at all the examples. He's on sellers at deadlines going to contenders. LOL. It happens all the time.

You keep citing relief pitchers as an example. Relief pitcher is a journeyman trade. Outfielders that can hit, run, and defend are atypically journeymen like Pham has been… who was NOT acquired by a contender this year.

Every signing Pham has had since Cincinnati has been a one year deal. And he was flipped at the deadline the first three years because he team’s were sellers.

Now Pham isn’t a reliever like Maton or Stratton, but it’s easy to see how a vet on a one year deal is susceptible to a deadline deal.

It’s not rocket science…

Disingenous: not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

Lol.

Good luck, AOF. You’ve been (whined) slapped a bunch in this thread.

OK, so you're going to be dishonest and pretend that you're not trying to consider the market for relief pitchers and outfielders to be similar? You're going to pretend that your comps haven't been Maton and Kimbrel and Stratton?

Saying that you're disingenuous is about the nicest thing I can say.

Slapped around? Please. A bunch of people on this thread see him for what he is. A talented player who overcame long odds and a brutal upbringing to have a long career in the league, but a massive (buzz) that teams don't want to tie themselves to for any duration of time in spite of talent that they'd otherwise be happy to commit to long term.

[AtillaTheBlue1]

roid rage

And he is a P[ositively] O[bnoxious] S[impleton] as a person.

[ecleme22]

Ummm... he's ALWAYS been this guy. Totally unhinged and an asssshole... product of his upbringing.

Talented enough to have a long career.
Too big of a jackwagon for anyone to keep him around for any time whatsoever - he's a cancer.

10 teams in 12 seasons

Kimbrel has been with 9 teams in 11 years. Is he a cancer?
Chris Stratton has been with 7 teams in 8 years. Cancer?

Like the ones above, Tommy's career of late has been 1 year deals, then traded to teams in the playoff hunt who want him.

For cancers, see Puig. He hasn't been in the league in 6 years.

Organizations keep signing Pham. And no, it's not because they know less about his personality than you...

Yet, none of these brain trust want him for more than a half season. Hhhmmmm. That spells cancer.

Was Maton a cancer for the Cardinals?

Or was he a talented player on a middling team that they could flip?

"No one wants him for more than a half season!" Look at all the examples. He's on sellers at deadlines going to contenders. LOL. It happens all the time.

You keep citing relief pitchers as an example. Relief pitcher is a journeyman trade. Outfielders that can hit, run, and defend are atypically journeymen like Pham has been… who was NOT acquired by a contender this year.

Every signing Pham has had since Cincinnati has been a one year deal. And he was flipped at the deadline the first three years because he team’s were sellers.

Now Pham isn’t a reliever like Maton or Stratton, but it’s easy to see how a vet on a one year deal is susceptible to a deadline deal.

It’s not rocket science…

Disingenous: not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

Lol.

Good luck, AOF. You’ve been (whined) slapped a bunch in this thread.

OK, so you're going to be dishonest and pretend that you're not trying to consider the market for relief pitchers and outfielders to be similar? You're going to pretend that your comps haven't been Maton and Kimbrel and Stratton?

Saying that you're disingenuous is about the nicest thing I can say.

Slapped around? Please. A bunch of people on this thread see him for what he is. A talented player who overcame long odds and a brutal upbringing to have a long career in the league, but a massive (bleep) that teams don't want to tie themselves to for any duration of time in spite of talent that they'd otherwise be happy to commit to long term.

Lol, yeah you’ve been (buzz) slapped a bunch.

Now you’re like: “omg! You’re being disingenuous! Stop!”

What a baby.

[ecleme22]

Pirates manager in February discussing the Pham signing:

"That's exactly what we wanted,” manager Derek Shelton said. “We wanted Tommy Pham. He was the guy we targeted. He was the guy we liked for a long time. I think the biggest thing you can say about Tommy Pham is [that] he's a winner. He drives not only himself, but he has an expectation for his teammates to win. That was important to put in our clubhouse."

Dude is a cancer!!!!