I don't care two cents about the organization. I simply don't understand privileged fans claiming to be lied to with zero evidence. Why don't you step up and show how the organization "lied" to you about Roby? That is such a stupid whine.Bomber1 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:03 pmYou can always be counted on to defend the organization despite the fact that a previous poster’s response proved yours wrong.hugeCardfan wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 14:56 pmWhere did they lie? For that matter, what information do they owe you?
What part of this don't you understand?The HIPAA Privacy Rule establishes national standards to protect individuals' medical records and other individually identifiable health information. It governs how covered entities, like healthcare providers and health plans, can use and disclose this protected health information (PHI). The rule also grants individuals certain rights regarding their PHI.
Roby had TJ surgery last Friday
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Re: Roby had TJ surgery last Friday
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Re: Roby had TJ surgery last Friday
Yep.Bomber1 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:03 pmYou can always be counted on to defend the organization despite the fact that a previous poster’s response proved yours wrong.hugeCardfan wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 14:56 pmWhere did they lie? For that matter, what information do they owe you?
What part of this don't you understand?The HIPAA Privacy Rule establishes national standards to protect individuals' medical records and other individually identifiable health information. It governs how covered entities, like healthcare providers and health plans, can use and disclose this protected health information (PHI). The rule also grants individuals certain rights regarding their PHI.
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Re: Roby had TJ surgery last Friday
Here we go again.11WSChamps wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:27 pmYep.Bomber1 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:03 pmYou can always be counted on to defend the organization despite the fact that a previous poster’s response proved yours wrong.hugeCardfan wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 14:56 pmWhere did they lie? For that matter, what information do they owe you?
What part of this don't you understand?The HIPAA Privacy Rule establishes national standards to protect individuals' medical records and other individually identifiable health information. It governs how covered entities, like healthcare providers and health plans, can use and disclose this protected health information (PHI). The rule also grants individuals certain rights regarding their PHI.

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Re: Roby had TJ surgery last Friday
Just agreeing with thehugeCardfan wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:32 pmHere we go again.11WSChamps wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:27 pmYep.Bomber1 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:03 pmYou can always be counted on to defend the organization despite the fact that a previous poster’s response proved yours wrong.hugeCardfan wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 14:56 pmWhere did they lie? For that matter, what information do they owe you?
What part of this don't you understand?The HIPAA Privacy Rule establishes national standards to protect individuals' medical records and other individually identifiable health information. It governs how covered entities, like healthcare providers and health plans, can use and disclose this protected health information (PHI). The rule also grants individuals certain rights regarding their PHI.![]()
poster not saying anything disparaging about you.
I respect folks opinions I just feel differently about it.
Frankly as far as the pitcher goes I don't see himself a major contributor going forward anyway so whether the team comes out with it or not doesn't really bother me.
Re: Roby had TJ surgery last Friday
is this what they wanted over the last 10 days? "We're doing an MRI on Roby's Elbow" "Waiting on results" "Results weren't conclusive, will be seeking outside opinions" "We did a 2nd imagining, and saw some damage to the UCL, a partial tear, that will likely tear completely soon" "Getting a second and third opinion on our 2nd imaging" "Outside opinions suggest surgery" "Surgery scheduled for tomorrow"hugeCardfan wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:27 pmI don't care two cents about the organization. I simply don't understand privileged fans claiming to be lied to with zero evidence. Why don't you step up and show how the organization "lied" to you about Roby? That is such a stupid whine.Bomber1 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:03 pmYou can always be counted on to defend the organization despite the fact that a previous poster’s response proved yours wrong.hugeCardfan wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 14:56 pmWhere did they lie? For that matter, what information do they owe you?
What part of this don't you understand?The HIPAA Privacy Rule establishes national standards to protect individuals' medical records and other individually identifiable health information. It governs how covered entities, like healthcare providers and health plans, can use and disclose this protected health information (PHI). The rule also grants individuals certain rights regarding their PHI.
This has NEVER happened in the history of baseball.

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Re: Roby had TJ surgery last Friday
Yep.craviduce wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:37 pmis this what they wanted over the last 10 days? "We're doing an MRI on Roby's Elbow" "Waiting on results" "Results weren't conclusive, will be seeking outside opinions" "We did a 2nd imagining, and saw some damage to the UCL, a partial tear, that will likely tear completely soon" "Getting a second and third opinion on our 2nd imaging" "Outside opinions suggest surgery" "Surgery scheduled for tomorrow"hugeCardfan wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:27 pmI don't care two cents about the organization. I simply don't understand privileged fans claiming to be lied to with zero evidence. Why don't you step up and show how the organization "lied" to you about Roby? That is such a stupid whine.Bomber1 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:03 pmYou can always be counted on to defend the organization despite the fact that a previous poster’s response proved yours wrong.hugeCardfan wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 14:56 pmWhere did they lie? For that matter, what information do they owe you?
What part of this don't you understand?The HIPAA Privacy Rule establishes national standards to protect individuals' medical records and other individually identifiable health information. It governs how covered entities, like healthcare providers and health plans, can use and disclose this protected health information (PHI). The rule also grants individuals certain rights regarding their PHI.
This has NEVER happened in the history of baseball.![]()
Re: Roby had TJ surgery last Friday
Just saying that after missing all of 2026 it is unlikely he'll be ready or effective in 2027 at the ML levelAn Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 14:24 pmI think you’re looking at the wrong calendar.sp25 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 10:36 amMeaning he most likely won't be ready for St. Louis until 2028 at the earliest.3dender wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 10:31 am Won't be back until 2027... yippee
https://x.com/katiejwoo/status/1949853076891849023
It’s 2025 now, he’d be a full go for 2027. He’s out for 2026.
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Re: Roby had TJ surgery last Friday
He's almost 24 so I guess never is when he'll pitch for the Cardinals
Re: Roby had TJ surgery last Friday
I am not making stuff up on the fly. Yes, they had injuries, we know that. Does it matter if they are injured before the season or during? The point is they had those 10 pitchers under contract. Some did better than others. The Cards depth consisted of McGreevy which led them to having Fedde in the rotation for about a month too long.An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:24 pmOk so now you’re just making things up on the fly.ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:15 pmThe Dodgers SP was Snell, Glasnow, Ohtani, Yamamoto and Kershaw. That left Sasaki, Gonsolin, May, Miller and Wrobleski as 6-10. Of course they have had major injury problems the Dodgers. But, if you could take the current Cards staff or the Dodgers 6-10 listed above, who are you taking?An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:00 pmThat last part is nowhere close to true.
I’d be really interested to see who you were including in that 6-10 for 2025.
Neither Ohtani or Kershaw were even available at the start of the season, so you can’t just magically put them in their 1-5. Bobby Miller was a disaster and Wrobleski had made 5 starts in AAA with awful results and peripherals. Gonsolin missed 2024 and was a total wildcard for 2025.
If I had to pick 5 pitchers from the Cards and Dodgers out of those groups, I would have taken, in order, Gray, Sasaki, Liberatore, Pallante, and Fedde
In all seriousness, I put their 5 best pitchers, injuries or not, 1-5 so the ones I put 6-10 are the worst of the 10 to make the odds in your favor on your comment. So do you take their 6-10 or our group of Gray, Liberatore, Fedde, Mikolas and Pallante. If you want to substitute McGreevy for Fedde and you had to take the Dodgers 6-10 to start the 2027 season or the group the Cards have, who would you take?
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Re: Roby had TJ surgery last Friday
Could say that about most rookie pitchers whenever they’re making the jump.sp25 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:57 pmJust saying that after missing all of 2026 it is unlikely he'll be ready or effective in 2027 at the ML levelAn Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 14:24 pmI think you’re looking at the wrong calendar.sp25 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 10:36 amMeaning he most likely won't be ready for St. Louis until 2028 at the earliest.3dender wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 10:31 am Won't be back until 2027... yippee
https://x.com/katiejwoo/status/1949853076891849023
It’s 2025 now, he’d be a full go for 2027. He’s out for 2026.
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Re: Roby had TJ surgery last Friday
Considering pitchers who are injured and unavailable as “better” is disingenuous at best… and removes integrity from the debate.ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 16:46 pmI am not making stuff up on the fly. Yes, they had injuries, we know that. Does it matter if they are injured before the season or during? The point is they had those 10 pitchers under contract. Some did better than others. The Cards depth consisted of McGreevy which led them to having Fedde in the rotation for about a month too long.An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:24 pmOk so now you’re just making things up on the fly.ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:15 pmThe Dodgers SP was Snell, Glasnow, Ohtani, Yamamoto and Kershaw. That left Sasaki, Gonsolin, May, Miller and Wrobleski as 6-10. Of course they have had major injury problems the Dodgers. But, if you could take the current Cards staff or the Dodgers 6-10 listed above, who are you taking?An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:00 pmThat last part is nowhere close to true.
I’d be really interested to see who you were including in that 6-10 for 2025.
Neither Ohtani or Kershaw were even available at the start of the season, so you can’t just magically put them in their 1-5. Bobby Miller was a disaster and Wrobleski had made 5 starts in AAA with awful results and peripherals. Gonsolin missed 2024 and was a total wildcard for 2025.
If I had to pick 5 pitchers from the Cards and Dodgers out of those groups, I would have taken, in order, Gray, Sasaki, Liberatore, Pallante, and Fedde
In all seriousness, I put their 5 best pitchers, injuries or not, 1-5 so the ones I put 6-10 are the worst of the 10 to make the odds in your favor on your comment. So do you take their 6-10 or our group of Gray, Liberatore, Fedde, Mikolas and Pallante. If you want to substitute McGreevy for Fedde and you had to take the Dodgers 6-10 to start the 2027 season or the group the Cards have, who would you take?
I would take the Cardinals top 5 over whomever the Dodgers had 6-10 when the season began 10 times out of 10.
As far as 2027 goes… I’ll just say “who knows?”. We have no idea what either depth chart looks like that far out.
Last edited by An Old Friend on 28 Jul 2025 17:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Roby had TJ surgery last Friday
I had such high hoped for ole Roby…..2027 you say??? Heck lets make it 2030An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 17:29 pmCould say that about most rookie pitchers whenever they’re making the jump.sp25 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:57 pmJust saying that after missing all of 2026 it is unlikely he'll be ready or effective in 2027 at the ML levelAn Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 14:24 pmI think you’re looking at the wrong calendar.sp25 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 10:36 amMeaning he most likely won't be ready for St. Louis until 2028 at the earliest.3dender wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 10:31 am Won't be back until 2027... yippee
https://x.com/katiejwoo/status/1949853076891849023
It’s 2025 now, he’d be a full go for 2027. He’s out for 2026.
Re: Roby had TJ surgery last Friday
Wacha was a comp pick. He played the following season.ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:21 pmIt might be. But, you are taking a $21M risk he might take it. You are also risking if he does take it, you end up with nothing for him. The draft pick also goes with a $2-2.5M bonus to be paid out and a player that will not be ready for 3-4 years at least. It is another approach. But, if the competitive window is 2027, then your approach will not help that competitive window. The help won't arrive until 2029.Carp4Cy wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:05 pmThis is why I agrue that the comp pick from Helsely declining a QO (a risk but much less of a risk than most people assume) would be a better return than a trade for a prospect that some other team is willing to part with for reasons only they know.ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 14:58 pmYou will likely be disappointed with this deadline too. If we only trade the 3 relief pitchers, Helsley, Matton and Matz, what do you think the return should be? I am guessing for Matton and Matz, it will be an A ball lottery pick pitcher. For Helsley, it is likely to be someone like a Roby, good stuff, in AA and a couple years out. Unfortunatley, pitching gets hurt. Look at the Dodgers, they had 10 SPs under contract and can hardly field a complete rotation. On paper, their 6-10 pitchers were better than our 1-5.Carp4Cy wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 14:41 pmI didn't say it was bad. I said it was lame. As in nothing to get excited about. It may have been the best trade that could have been made but its like going to work at Wendys for $5 hr. its a lame job. It might be the best you can do in that exact situation but it doesn't get you ahead so you need to figure out something else as well.3dender wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 14:34 pmThat wasn't your point... your point was that the trade was bad because Saggese is bad and Roby got injured. Which is bad analysis since as I said, the jury is very much still out on Saggese, and Roby's ceiling is super high if he can stay healthy, which we won't know for years.Carp4Cy wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 13:43 pmWhich makes my point - any vets traded this week need to be for MLB ready prospects (Spencer Jones) or already proven and controllable players - not EARLY prospects that might never pan out.3dender wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 12:54 pmKinda early to decide Saggese's fate when he's had 140 PAs, totally inconsistent PT, and just turned 23 this season.Carp4Cy wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 12:40 pmThe trade was lame. Saggesse is a Jag. Roby is an injured bust. Bloom has to find other ways to improve this franchise besides trading vets for lotto tickets like this that give us 0 WAR.Jobu's Rum wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 10:41 am So even the trade we thought was good is still pending in the Monty trade
Roby will be 26ish by the time he is healed and developed in the minors
Saggese has shown flashes, but still a lot to prove
King overall has been serviceable, I think
Moe is trash
So you're being extremely short-sighted on analyzing this trade. Neither of them was ever gonna make a difference in 2025 and 2 months of Montgomery was never gonna get a 2025 difference-maker.
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Re: Roby had TJ surgery last Friday
The cardinals aren’t going to give helsley a QO it won’t happen anyone who thinks the cards would even risk him taking the QO and having to pay the closer 21 million have been asleep and haven’t paid attention to how the cards operate. So it’s trade him or he walks for nothingCarp4Cy wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 18:31 pmWacha was a comp pick. He played the following season.ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:21 pmIt might be. But, you are taking a $21M risk he might take it. You are also risking if he does take it, you end up with nothing for him. The draft pick also goes with a $2-2.5M bonus to be paid out and a player that will not be ready for 3-4 years at least. It is another approach. But, if the competitive window is 2027, then your approach will not help that competitive window. The help won't arrive until 2029.Carp4Cy wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 15:05 pmThis is why I agrue that the comp pick from Helsely declining a QO (a risk but much less of a risk than most people assume) would be a better return than a trade for a prospect that some other team is willing to part with for reasons only they know.ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 14:58 pmYou will likely be disappointed with this deadline too. If we only trade the 3 relief pitchers, Helsley, Matton and Matz, what do you think the return should be? I am guessing for Matton and Matz, it will be an A ball lottery pick pitcher. For Helsley, it is likely to be someone like a Roby, good stuff, in AA and a couple years out. Unfortunatley, pitching gets hurt. Look at the Dodgers, they had 10 SPs under contract and can hardly field a complete rotation. On paper, their 6-10 pitchers were better than our 1-5.Carp4Cy wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 14:41 pmI didn't say it was bad. I said it was lame. As in nothing to get excited about. It may have been the best trade that could have been made but its like going to work at Wendys for $5 hr. its a lame job. It might be the best you can do in that exact situation but it doesn't get you ahead so you need to figure out something else as well.3dender wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 14:34 pmThat wasn't your point... your point was that the trade was bad because Saggese is bad and Roby got injured. Which is bad analysis since as I said, the jury is very much still out on Saggese, and Roby's ceiling is super high if he can stay healthy, which we won't know for years.Carp4Cy wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 13:43 pmWhich makes my point - any vets traded this week need to be for MLB ready prospects (Spencer Jones) or already proven and controllable players - not EARLY prospects that might never pan out.3dender wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 12:54 pmKinda early to decide Saggese's fate when he's had 140 PAs, totally inconsistent PT, and just turned 23 this season.Carp4Cy wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 12:40 pmThe trade was lame. Saggesse is a Jag. Roby is an injured bust. Bloom has to find other ways to improve this franchise besides trading vets for lotto tickets like this that give us 0 WAR.Jobu's Rum wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 10:41 am So even the trade we thought was good is still pending in the Monty trade
Roby will be 26ish by the time he is healed and developed in the minors
Saggese has shown flashes, but still a lot to prove
King overall has been serviceable, I think
Moe is trash
So you're being extremely short-sighted on analyzing this trade. Neither of them was ever gonna make a difference in 2025 and 2 months of Montgomery was never gonna get a 2025 difference-maker.
Re: Roby had TJ surgery last Friday
I think Franklin will end up being the future closerBasil Shabazz wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 12:31 pmOk.Baseball Savant wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 10:50 am Doyle in my opinion will be an ELITE closer.
He can't carry that velo over 5-6 innings against MLB hitters.
Even though he’s carried that velo through 100 pitches in college. Got it Savant! lol
Is there a mysterious juju than an MLB hitter has over an NCAA batter has that magically reduces extended velo? Do enlighten.![]()
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Re: Roby had TJ surgery last Friday
Saggese just needs to play consistently. The guy can hit and is a gamer and a baseball rat. I stand behind that he was a very good pickup for us. The organization is screwing him right now. (Bring him up earlier and send him down when he was hitting over .400. Bring him back up later and give hkm sporadic playing time, at best.) He can be good if handled right. Will Cards do that? Doubtful.Carp4Cy wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 13:43 pmWhich makes my point - any vets traded this week need to be for MLB ready prospects (Spencer Jones) or already proven and controllable players - not EARLY prospects that might never pan out.3dender wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 12:54 pmKinda early to decide Saggese's fate when he's had 140 PAs, totally inconsistent PT, and just turned 23 this season.Carp4Cy wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 12:40 pmThe trade was lame. Saggesse is a Jag. Roby is an injured bust. Bloom has to find other ways to improve this franchise besides trading vets for lotto tickets like this that give us 0 WAR.Jobu's Rum wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 10:41 am So even the trade we thought was good is still pending in the Monty trade
Roby will be 26ish by the time he is healed and developed in the minors
Saggese has shown flashes, but still a lot to prove
King overall has been serviceable, I think
Moe is trash