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BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑16 May 2025 15:04 pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑15 May 2025 13:54 pm I am appreciative of the run this team is on and I enjoy winning baseball as much as anybody, but I still see this as an 81 to 84 win team.

I hope they continue with the retool/rebuild mindset and are actively shopping and listening to offers on Helsley, Nado, Fedde, Mikolas, Burleson, and even Nootbaar. Between our young p-layers, the draft, next years free agency and the return on trades we can continue the retool/rebuild and begin competing w/ a legitimate shot of winning divisions and advancing further than a round in the playoffs. Keep using this year to see what you have or do not have in Gorman and Walker as well.

Don't buy into this team doing what they have done over the past month.

My pre-season prediction on this board was 86 wins. I'll stick with that. I think this a good team which should finish a few games over .500. I don't think this is a playoff team, thus my expectations for this season are tempered from the start. That way I can enjoy the Cardinals by watching new young players play, grow, and establish themselves as major league ballplayers, or as trivia questions a few years down the road. There are more winning streaks ahead and some losing streaks, too. Like you said, playoff hopes are fools gold. It is wise to stay out of that trap and just enjoy this transitional season.

Brummer with this offense, defense, SP and BP they are not playing .500 the rest of the way. The Phillies manager said the Cardinals are becoming a great team.

RunSup wrote: ↑16 May 2025 17:03 pm Buy in to this team now and enjoy the ride.

They aren't selling meme coins here. It's just competitive baseball and fun at the old ball park.

That's what it's really about right now, to me. You have a fun, young team. And you can get some good seats for pretty (bleep) cheap right now. You have a good opportunity to go see a team (hopefully) on the upswing. Maybe not this year, but in the upcoming years. But this could be the genesis.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑16 May 2025 17:42 pm

ClassicO wrote: ↑15 May 2025 14:01 pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑15 May 2025 13:54 pm I am appreciative of the run this team is on and I enjoy winning baseball as much as anybody, but I still see this as an 81 to 84 win team.

I hope they continue with the retool/rebuild mindset and are actively shopping and listening to offers on Helsley, Nado, Fedde, Mikolas, Burleson, and even Nootbaar. Between our young p-layers, the draft, next years free agency and the return on trades we can continue the retool/rebuild and begin competing w/ a legitimate shot of winning divisions and advancing further than a round in the playoffs. Keep using this year to see what you have or do not have in Gorman and Walker as well.

Don't buy into this team doing what they have done over the past month.

I agree. I say (likely too often) that, if you're not going to win the World Series in any given year, have a plan for the next few years where that is the sole objective. I like the team this year, but it's not going to go far, so they need to reset with winning a WS is the goal. I don't get people who think a Wild Card is that rewarding -- or memorable.

LMAO. So you can plan when to win a WS?!!!

Ha. You can’t be that dumb. It’s “how,” not “when.”
The previous regimes haven’t planned well; failing to invest in the minors or international market. They seem to have committed to improving that and not handing out big contracts to mediocrity (Carp, Miko). This year’s team shows a moment towards youth and the future. We’ll see at the trade deadline.
Of course you know that but, like Shady, just like to mouth off for your own jingles.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑15 May 2025 14:55 pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑15 May 2025 13:54 pm I am appreciative of the run this team is on and I enjoy winning baseball as much as anybody, but I still see this as an 81 to 84 win team.

I hope they continue with the retool/rebuild mindset and are actively shopping and listening to offers on Helsley, Nado, Fedde, Mikolas, Burleson, and even Nootbaar. Between our young p-layers, the draft, next years free agency and the return on trades we can continue the retool/rebuild and begin competing w/ a legitimate shot of winning divisions and advancing further than a round in the playoffs. Keep using this year to see what you have or do not have in Gorman and Walker as well.

Don't buy into this team doing what they have done over the past month.

Noot ($2.9M)?

No thanks basil and no need to deal him whatsoever as he's the best lead-off man we've had since MCarps prime.

I buyout he and Donovan's remaining ARB years plus first couple years of FA w/extensions this winter and then build around them.

JMO

Still think this?

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑15 May 2025 13:54 pm I am appreciative of the run this team is on and I enjoy winning baseball as much as anybody, but I still see this as an 81 to 84 win team.

I hope they continue with the retool/rebuild mindset and are actively shopping and listening to offers on Helsley, Nado, Fedde, Mikolas, Burleson, and even Nootbaar. Between our young p-layers, the draft, next years free agency and the return on trades we can continue the retool/rebuild and begin competing w/ a legitimate shot of winning divisions and advancing further than a round in the playoffs. Keep using this year to see what you have or do not have in Gorman and Walker as well.

Don't buy into this team doing what they have done over the past month.

So, we should trade young players to get, well, other young players?

Aside from Noot, who is nearly 28 years old, who is the young player I suggested trading?

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑15 May 2025 13:54 pm I am appreciative of the run this team is on and I enjoy winning baseball as much as anybody, but I still see this as an 81 to 84 win team.

I hope they continue with the retool/rebuild mindset and are actively shopping and listening to offers on Helsley, Nado, Fedde, Mikolas, Burleson, and even Nootbaar. Between our young p-layers, the draft, next years free agency and the return on trades we can continue the retool/rebuild and begin competing w/ a legitimate shot of winning divisions and advancing further than a round in the playoffs. Keep using this year to see what you have or do not have in Gorman and Walker as well.

Don't buy into this team doing what they have done over the past month.

I too appreciate the better baseball record for this team in 2025. The idea of actually much happening during the trade deadline just isn’t going to happen unless some of these players have a change of heart or some team becomes crazy desperate.

Arenado, Gray, Contreras, Mikolas have made it clear that they aren’t interested in leaving here and waiving their NTC. Honestly, how much of a market could there actually be for Mikolas or Fedde. All they really offer is health. That’s something but is it really worth anything?

The bullpen is really the only guys who could be moved. Maton could be moved but he makes not much above the minimum. He’s just not costing us anything. There’s probably a minimal market for Matz. A LH pitcher who has been fairly effective but this is the end of his contract and the return wouldn’t be much more than a middling prospect. Helsley is the only marketable player. IF the Cardinals don’t have an interest in signing him they should trade him and not let him walk. Guys like Gorman and Walker, if you trade them they are at the low point in value.

There just isn’t much that is available to be traded.

fools gold indeed - 8.5 out as of Sunday 10pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 12:27 pm Aside from Noot, who is nearly 28 years old, who is the young player I suggested trading?

Burleson is 26

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 11:44 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑15 May 2025 14:55 pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑15 May 2025 13:54 pm I am appreciative of the run this team is on and I enjoy winning baseball as much as anybody, but I still see this as an 81 to 84 win team.

I hope they continue with the retool/rebuild mindset and are actively shopping and listening to offers on Helsley, Nado, Fedde, Mikolas, Burleson, and even Nootbaar. Between our young p-layers, the draft, next years free agency and the return on trades we can continue the retool/rebuild and begin competing w/ a legitimate shot of winning divisions and advancing further than a round in the playoffs. Keep using this year to see what you have or do not have in Gorman and Walker as well.

Don't buy into this team doing what they have done over the past month.

Noot ($2.9M)?

No thanks basil and no need to deal him whatsoever as he's the best lead-off man we've had since MCarps prime.

I buyout he and Donovan's remaining ARB years plus first couple years of FA w/extensions this winter and then build around them.

JMO

Still think this?

posted:
15 May 2025

New data but even struggling Noot's still the better option at lead-off (.226 .330 .362 .692) than Donovan at lead-off (.222 .306 .349 .655).

And when I posted that on 5/15 Noot was: .256 .373 .435 .808.

BTW

Do you still want to trade A. Burleson (10 HR--.291 .329 .461 .790)?

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 12:58 pm

posted:
15 May 2025

New data but even struggling Noot's still the better option at lead-off (.226 .330 .362 .692) than Donovan at lead-off (.222 .306 .349 .655).

And when I posted that on 5/15 Noot was: .256 .373 .435 .808.

BTW

Do you still want to trade A. Burleson (10 HR--.291 .329 .461 .790)?

I'd trade Burleson in the right deal for sure. He is a positionless player who is probably a .730 OPS hitter that doesn't walk much, can't run well, and has moderate 15-20 hr power. I surely would not look at him as a piece past his cost-controlled years. But, if we could get a needed piece like a 4/5 starter type, reliable back end BP guy, or RH equiviant of Burly that plays the OF then sure I'd deal him.

And let's be honest, we knew Noot wasn't who is was showing to be on 5/15, right?

No team with title aspirations is building around players like Nootbaar and Donovan. Donovan has value, but I think of him more as a Ben Zobrist type on the 2016 Cubs -- a complementary piece who can play multiple positions.

This team needs some true foundational pieces like Edmonds, Rolen and Pujols of the past. Nootbaar and Donovan are nowhere close to that.

Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 12:51 pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 12:27 pm Aside from Noot, who is nearly 28 years old, who is the young player I suggested trading?

Burleson is 26

And Donnie will be going into his 29 season in 2026.

Maybe the FO has a preference of which players to go forward with and us fans would love to
know something that we'll never get the privilege to know.

I think most of these decisions will come in the off-season allowing for an complete as possible data
of players that they currently have control over. In general teams have not and cold spells which can be exacerbated
on a roster with unestablished players.

They may miss out on getting full value in the trading of some veterans. How much they missed out on
is debatable. When I get judgmental of the team I see clusters of the same players, which if they're after
a NLC championship, well eventually need sorted out, IMO.

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 13:21 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 12:58 pm

posted:
15 May 2025

New data but even struggling Noot's still the better option at lead-off (.226 .330 .362 .692) than Donovan at lead-off (.222 .306 .349 .655).

And when I posted that on 5/15 Noot was: .256 .373 .435 .808.

BTW

Do you still want to trade A. Burleson (10 HR--.291 .329 .461 .790)?

I'd trade Burleson in the right deal for sure. He is a positionless player who is probably a .730 OPS hitter that doesn't walk much, can't run well, and has moderate 15-20 hr power. I surely would not look at him as a piece past his cost-controlled years. But, if we could get a needed piece like a 4/5 starter type, reliable back end BP guy, or RH equiviant of Burly that plays the OF then sure I'd deal him.

And let's be honest, we knew Noot wasn't who is was showing to be on 5/15, right?

I trade Burly too in the right deal.

And Noot has been a very good lead-off man his entire career Basil:
709 PA's
.247 .346 .417 .762

The key is the .346 OB% showing he does what you want from a lead-off hitter, get on base.

Easily the best lead-off man the Cardinals have had since M. Carp in his prime.

Others like T. Edman slashed .259 .310 .374 .684 in his career as a lead-off man, B. Donovan a .256 .336 .395 .731 slash leading off in his career which is still not as good as Noot's.

From Bernie:
When Nootbaar gets on base at least twice in a game, the Cardinals are 28-12.

When Noot scores at least one run in a game, the Cards are 20-7. When he scores two or more, they’re 7-1.

When Nootbaar homers, the Cards are 11-0

When Lars drives in one or more runs in a game the Redbirds are 19-4.

I'm p i z z ed off at his play this year too, thought he'd be way more consistent at this stage of his career.

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 12:27 pm Aside from Noot, who is nearly 28 years old, who is the young player I suggested trading?

How about Burleson.

Cranny wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 14:20 pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 12:27 pm Aside from Noot, who is nearly 28 years old, who is the young player I suggested trading?

How about Burleson.

Burly turns 27 in Nov., not really a "young" player anymore.