STLtoday.com

ramfandan wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:08 pm A few have suggested sending Walker down to a level even lower than AAA.. to Double A (AA) ball.
Will repeating that level make him improve ? He already had tremendous success there. He was the Cardinals Player of the Year both in 2021 & 2022 . Baseball America had him rated as the 4 best prospect in all the minor leagues heading into 2023 . Also factored in was he was dominating at that level at age 19 & 20 years old. (He was playing with kids mostly 2 and 3 years older than himself. )

He had a good rookie year with the Cardinals hitting .276 with OPS .767 .. 16 HR's and 51 RBI's ..started that 2023 season at age 20
Then he fell off the cliff in 2024 and into 2025 has not yet improved.

So the decision becomes .. Is the organization better working with him at the major league level with Brant Brown on a daily basis OR returning him to a minor league level where he would be facing far less than major league caliber pitching and arguably a hitting instructor not the caliber of his major league coaching ? That is the $64 question I would guess like differing opinions on CT as the correct route to go from here , those same discussions are going on within the Cards FO too.
He has been sent down extensively previously and that didn't seem to change things for the major league level when he returned. It's a perplexing situation for sure.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑14 May 2025 06:03 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:08 pm A few have suggested sending Walker down to a level even lower than AAA.. to Double A (AA) ball.
Will repeating that level make him improve ? He already had tremendous success there. He was the Cardinals Player of the Year both in 2021 & 2022 . Baseball America had him rated as the 4 best prospect in all the minor leagues heading into 2023 . Also factored in was he was dominating at that level at age 19 & 20 years old. (He was playing with kids mostly 2 and 3 years older than himself. )

He had a good rookie year with the Cardinals hitting .276 with OPS .767 .. 16 HR's and 51 RBI's ..started that 2023 season at age 20
Then he fell off the cliff in 2024 and into 2025 has not yet improved.

So the decision becomes .. Is the organization better working with him at the major league level with Brant Brown on a daily basis OR returning him to a minor league level where he would be facing far less than major league caliber pitching and arguably a hitting instructor not the caliber of his major league coaching ? That is the $64 question I would guess like differing opinions on CT as the correct route to go from here , those same discussions are going on within the Cards FO too.
He has been sent down extensively previously and that didn't seem to change things for the major league level when he returned. It's a perplexing situation for sure.

The only level he dominated was A-Ball with a 208 wRC+. His other levels were:
2021 High-A - 125 wRC+
2022 AA - 124 wRC+
2023 AAA - 89 wRC+
2024 AAA - 94 wRC+

They called him up for PR reasons and put themselves in a bind because he had some success that rookie year. They let themselves believe that he’d just be different.

ramfandan wrote: ↑14 May 2025 06:59 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑14 May 2025 06:03 am The only level he dominated was A-Ball with a 208 wRC+. His other levels were:
2021 High-A - 125 wRC+
2022 AA - 124 wRC+
2023 AAA - 89 wRC+
2024 AAA - 94 wRC+

They called him up for PR reasons and put themselves in a bind because he had some success that rookie year. They let themselves believe that he’d just be different.

My recollection of how he got on the team was bit different. He was given an invite to spring training ( as other top rookies in a system get now and then VS II , JJ Wetherholt, etc.) . He had an outstanding spring and they decided he made the club. (Albert Pujols made the team the same way years back ) .

I seem to remember he started off with long stretch of games with hits in them . As for having some success , that's for sure .. Thought they sent him down ( they said it was due to increasing his launch angle .. too many hard hit balls that were grounders ) he was brought back up . Yes, he had success overall . He had a higher batting average .276 than both Nado and Goldy . He had 16 HRs and I think 51 RBI. The kid was 20 years old. You could count on one hand the number of 20 year olds that could produce that well in his rookie year . Guess that would lead the organization to think they had a different type talent.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑14 May 2025 08:24 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑14 May 2025 06:59 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑14 May 2025 06:03 am The only level he dominated was A-Ball with a 208 wRC+. His other levels were:
2021 High-A - 125 wRC+
2022 AA - 124 wRC+
2023 AAA - 89 wRC+
2024 AAA - 94 wRC+

They called him up for PR reasons and put themselves in a bind because he had some success that rookie year. They let themselves believe that he’d just be different.

My recollection of how he got on the team was bit different. He was given an invite to spring training ( as other top rookies in a system get now and then VS II , JJ Wetherholt, etc.) . He had an outstanding spring and they decided he made the club. (Albert Pujols made the team the same way years back ) .

I’m going to cut you off, here.

He did NOT have an outstanding sprint. He had a .299 on-base percentage and a 15:2 strikeout to walk rate. He should have started the season in AAA.

I seem to remember he started off with long stretch of games with hits in them . As for having some success , that's for sure .. Thought they sent him down ( they said it was due to increasing his launch angle .. too many hard hit balls that were grounders ) he was brought back up . Yes, he had success overall . He had a higher batting average .276 than both Nado and Goldy . He had 16 HRs and I think 51 RBI. The kid was 20 years old. You could count on one hand the number of 20 year olds that could produce that well in his rookie year . Guess that would lead the organization to think they had a different type talent.

He had some success, yes, but with a bad process. That’s unsustainable but they allowed it to happen. He should’ve stayed in AAA until he showed that he was ready.

ramfandan wrote: ↑14 May 2025 06:59 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑14 May 2025 06:03 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:08 pm A few have suggested sending Walker down to a level even lower than AAA.. to Double A (AA) ball.
Will repeating that level make him improve ? He already had tremendous success there. He was the Cardinals Player of the Year both in 2021 & 2022 . Baseball America had him rated as the 4 best prospect in all the minor leagues heading into 2023 . Also factored in was he was dominating at that level at age 19 & 20 years old. (He was playing with kids mostly 2 and 3 years older than himself. )

He had a good rookie year with the Cardinals hitting .276 with OPS .767 .. 16 HR's and 51 RBI's ..started that 2023 season at age 20
Then he fell off the cliff in 2024 and into 2025 has not yet improved.

So the decision becomes .. Is the organization better working with him at the major league level with Brant Brown on a daily basis OR returning him to a minor league level where he would be facing far less than major league caliber pitching and arguably a hitting instructor not the caliber of his major league coaching ? That is the $64 question I would guess like differing opinions on CT as the correct route to go from here , those same discussions are going on within the Cards FO too.
He has been sent down extensively previously and that didn't seem to change things for the major league level when he returned. It's a perplexing situation for sure.

The only level he dominated was A-Ball with a 208 wRC+. His other levels were:
2021 High-A - 125 wRC+
2022 AA - 124 wRC+
2023 AAA - 89 wRC+
2024 AAA - 94 wRC+

They called him up for PR reasons and put themselves in a bind because he had some success that rookie year. They let themselves believe that he’d just be different.

My recollection of how he got on the team was bit different. He was given an invite to spring training ( as other top rookies in a system get now and then VS II , JJ Wetherholt, etc.) . He had an outstanding spring and they decided he made the club. (Albert Pujols made the team the same way years back ) . I seem to remember he started off with long stretch of games with hits in them . As for having some success , that's for sure .. Thought they sent him down ( they said it was due to increasing his launch angle .. too many hard hit balls that were grounders ) he was brought back up . Yes, he had success overall . He had a higher batting average .276 than both Nado and Goldy . He had 16 HRs and I think 51 RBI. The kid was 20 years old. You could count on one hand the number of 20 year olds that could produce that well in his rookie year . Guess that would lead the organization to think they had a different type talent.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑14 May 2025 09:45 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑14 May 2025 06:59 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑14 May 2025 06:03 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:08 pm A few have suggested sending Walker down to a level even lower than AAA.. to Double A (AA) ball.
Will repeating that level make him improve ? He already had tremendous success there. He was the Cardinals Player of the Year both in 2021 & 2022 . Baseball America had him rated as the 4 best prospect in all the minor leagues heading into 2023 . Also factored in was he was dominating at that level at age 19 & 20 years old. (He was playing with kids mostly 2 and 3 years older than himself. )

He had a good rookie year with the Cardinals hitting .276 with OPS .767 .. 16 HR's and 51 RBI's ..started that 2023 season at age 20
Then he fell off the cliff in 2024 and into 2025 has not yet improved.

So the decision becomes .. Is the organization better working with him at the major league level with Brant Brown on a daily basis OR returning him to a minor league level where he would be facing far less than major league caliber pitching and arguably a hitting instructor not the caliber of his major league coaching ? That is the $64 question I would guess like differing opinions on CT as the correct route to go from here , those same discussions are going on within the Cards FO too.
He has been sent down extensively previously and that didn't seem to change things for the major league level when he returned. It's a perplexing situation for sure.

The only level he dominated was A-Ball with a 208 wRC+. His other levels were:
2021 High-A - 125 wRC+
2022 AA - 124 wRC+
2023 AAA - 89 wRC+
2024 AAA - 94 wRC+

They called him up for PR reasons and put themselves in a bind because he had some success that rookie year. They let themselves believe that he’d just be different.

My recollection of how he got on the team was bit different. He was given an invite to spring training ( as other top rookies in a system get now and then VS II , JJ Wetherholt, etc.) . He had an outstanding spring and they decided he made the club. (Albert Pujols made the team the same way years back ) . I seem to remember he started off with long stretch of games with hits in them . As for having some success , that's for sure .. Thought they sent him down ( they said it was due to increasing his launch angle .. too many hard hit balls that were grounders ) he was brought back up . Yes, he had success overall . He had a higher batting average .276 than both Nado and Goldy . He had 16 HRs and I think 51 RBI. The kid was 20 years old. You could count on one hand the number of 20 year olds that could produce that well in his rookie year . Guess that would lead the organization to think they had a different type talent.

Pujols made the team due to an injury

An Old Friend wrote: ↑14 May 2025 10:54 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑14 May 2025 09:45 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑14 May 2025 06:59 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑14 May 2025 06:03 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:08 pm A few have suggested sending Walker down to a level even lower than AAA.. to Double A (AA) ball.
Will repeating that level make him improve ? He already had tremendous success there. He was the Cardinals Player of the Year both in 2021 & 2022 . Baseball America had him rated as the 4 best prospect in all the minor leagues heading into 2023 . Also factored in was he was dominating at that level at age 19 & 20 years old. (He was playing with kids mostly 2 and 3 years older than himself. )

He had a good rookie year with the Cardinals hitting .276 with OPS .767 .. 16 HR's and 51 RBI's ..started that 2023 season at age 20
Then he fell off the cliff in 2024 and into 2025 has not yet improved.

So the decision becomes .. Is the organization better working with him at the major league level with Brant Brown on a daily basis OR returning him to a minor league level where he would be facing far less than major league caliber pitching and arguably a hitting instructor not the caliber of his major league coaching ? That is the $64 question I would guess like differing opinions on CT as the correct route to go from here , those same discussions are going on within the Cards FO too.
He has been sent down extensively previously and that didn't seem to change things for the major league level when he returned. It's a perplexing situation for sure.

The only level he dominated was A-Ball with a 208 wRC+. His other levels were:
2021 High-A - 125 wRC+
2022 AA - 124 wRC+
2023 AAA - 89 wRC+
2024 AAA - 94 wRC+

They called him up for PR reasons and put themselves in a bind because he had some success that rookie year. They let themselves believe that he’d just be different.

My recollection of how he got on the team was bit different. He was given an invite to spring training ( as other top rookies in a system get now and then VS II , JJ Wetherholt, etc.) . He had an outstanding spring and they decided he made the club. (Albert Pujols made the team the same way years back ) . I seem to remember he started off with long stretch of games with hits in them . As for having some success , that's for sure .. Thought they sent him down ( they said it was due to increasing his launch angle .. too many hard hit balls that were grounders ) he was brought back up . Yes, he had success overall . He had a higher batting average .276 than both Nado and Goldy . He had 16 HRs and I think 51 RBI. The kid was 20 years old. You could count on one hand the number of 20 year olds that could produce that well in his rookie year . Guess that would lead the organization to think they had a different type talent.

Pujols made the team due to an injury

AND he had a fantastic spring training. No sure why you’d leave that out.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑14 May 2025 10:55 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑14 May 2025 10:54 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑14 May 2025 09:45 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑14 May 2025 06:59 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑14 May 2025 06:03 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:08 pm A few have suggested sending Walker down to a level even lower than AAA.. to Double A (AA) ball.
Will repeating that level make him improve ? He already had tremendous success there. He was the Cardinals Player of the Year both in 2021 & 2022 . Baseball America had him rated as the 4 best prospect in all the minor leagues heading into 2023 . Also factored in was he was dominating at that level at age 19 & 20 years old. (He was playing with kids mostly 2 and 3 years older than himself. )

He had a good rookie year with the Cardinals hitting .276 with OPS .767 .. 16 HR's and 51 RBI's ..started that 2023 season at age 20
Then he fell off the cliff in 2024 and into 2025 has not yet improved.

So the decision becomes .. Is the organization better working with him at the major league level with Brant Brown on a daily basis OR returning him to a minor league level where he would be facing far less than major league caliber pitching and arguably a hitting instructor not the caliber of his major league coaching ? That is the $64 question I would guess like differing opinions on CT as the correct route to go from here , those same discussions are going on within the Cards FO too.
He has been sent down extensively previously and that didn't seem to change things for the major league level when he returned. It's a perplexing situation for sure.

The only level he dominated was A-Ball with a 208 wRC+. His other levels were:
2021 High-A - 125 wRC+
2022 AA - 124 wRC+
2023 AAA - 89 wRC+
2024 AAA - 94 wRC+

They called him up for PR reasons and put themselves in a bind because he had some success that rookie year. They let themselves believe that he’d just be different.

My recollection of how he got on the team was bit different. He was given an invite to spring training ( as other top rookies in a system get now and then VS II , JJ Wetherholt, etc.) . He had an outstanding spring and they decided he made the club. (Albert Pujols made the team the same way years back ) . I seem to remember he started off with long stretch of games with hits in them . As for having some success , that's for sure .. Thought they sent him down ( they said it was due to increasing his launch angle .. too many hard hit balls that were grounders ) he was brought back up . Yes, he had success overall . He had a higher batting average .276 than both Nado and Goldy . He had 16 HRs and I think 51 RBI. The kid was 20 years old. You could count on one hand the number of 20 year olds that could produce that well in his rookie year . Guess that would lead the organization to think they had a different type talent.

Pujols made the team due to an injury

AND he had a fantastic spring training. No sure why you’d leave that out.

The injury guaranteed he'd make the team